Racism In Thailand

[Loz]

I'm curious as how Non thais and thais that use this forum feel and think about racism here. I know the west is oft accused of being overly PC but I think common decency requires people not to call black skinned people, "Nico", "Dam", or "Chocolate man" or anything else derogatory simply on the basis of skin color. If they are an out and out twunt, maybe its more excusable.

Why is it do you suppose thai kids are not pulled up when they commit these social faux pas?

I suspect its cos parents think its ok. When I run into the odd parent who does not think its ok, they just look shameful and withdraw. No sign of schooling the child though.

Given that I've had heads of Language departments make jokes about not being able to see me during a mid day power cut, I am given to believe that its not just a "kiddy" problem.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

Why hasn't thailand caught on to the fact that racism is not a good thing?

Is it simply cos the people selling all the skin whitening products would stand to make losses?

Is it to do with large tracts of them having no idea what WWII was about and which side the Japanese were on (orriginally)?

Can it be written off as their "live in the moment" attitude?

[Ulysses G.]

I'm fat and they all mention it. They seem to think that if something is obvious, why beat around the bush.

[PeaceBlondie]

In Mexico and Nicaragua, dark-skinned Caucasians are called negro, the name of their skin color. President Aleman was called fat. Similar here. Politically correct here. Welcome to another world.

[SeanMoran]

Pots and kettles, really.

[Ruperts]

Using a slang term to secribe someones skin colour is hardly to second coming of the slave trade. Accept it for what it probably is - harmless fun.

[Loz]

You ever wonder why this harmless fun was deemed unacceptable in so many western countries? Possibly because it leads to Harmful fun? Like girls in high school being told they can't be in the cheer leading squad because of their ugly black skin. But why stop there?

How many thai teen idols can you show me with Dark skin?

How many thai news readers can you show me with Dark skin?

How many Air hostess?

How many Models?

Ever seen a 7 11 without skin whitening deodorant?

So possibly this name calling leads on to less opportunity in later life? Or maybe all the dark skinned people are happier driving tuk tuks, farming and other endevours that will help keep them dark?

Funnily Racism in England never really troubled me, perhaps because anywhere that it mattered it had been demonised. Anywhere it didn't matter I rarely or never frequented. Football terraces, known NF pubs and the like.

Interesting that the first responses are very dismissive. It would be nice to think that this meant the respondants came to thailand with an open nonjudgemental mind and heart. "Everyone is my brother" enblazenend under their visa stamp.

Heres hoping.

I find it odd that I like it here so much with the strong under current of "white is right" running so strong and so near the surface. Sh_it, it is ON the surface, who am I kidding!

Any black folks care to offer their two penneth?

[SeanMoran]

You ever wonder why this harmless fun was deemed unacceptable in so many western countries? Possibly because it leads to Harmful fun? Like girls in high school being told they can't be in the cheer leading squad because of their ugly black skin. But why stop there?

How many thai teen idols can you show me with Dark skin?

How many thai news readers can you show me with Dark skin?

How many Air hostess?

How many Models?

Ever seen a 7 11 without skin whitening deodorant?

So possibly this name calling leads on to less opportunity in later life? Or maybe all the dark skinned people are happier driving tuk tuks, farming and other endevours that will help keep them dark?

Funnily Racism in England never really troubled me, perhaps because anywhere that it mattered it had been demonised. Anywhere it didn't matter I rarely or never frequented. Football terraces, known NF pubs and the like.

Interesting that the first responses are very dismissive. It would be nice to think that this meant the respondants came to thailand with an open nonjudgemental mind and heart. "Everyone is my brother" enblazenend under their visa stamp.

Heres hoping.

I find it odd that I like it here so much with the strong under current of "white is right" running so strong and so near the surface. Sh_it, it is ON the surface, who am I kidding!

Any black folks care to offer their two penneth?

Some Thais have lighter skin than other Thais have. It's not racism when they're all Thai to begin with. It's just skin colour.

[jdinasia]

I am with UG on this one. It is an obvious trait and spoken of openly. I came here because it isn't so PC. I have black acquaintances here (OMG .. did I say black?) That think there is no real issue with their skin color here and I would have assumed otherwise.

But simply ......

Any black folks care to offer their two penneth?

kinda flies in the face of .....

but I think common decency requires people not to call black skinned people, "Nico", "Dam", or "Chocolate man"

Since "Dam" means ... ummm .... black.

Edited January 18, 2010 by jdinasia

[Ruperts]

My response was dismissive because I don't think it is worth worrying about. I'm a white skinned farang and I'm sure I'm subject to plenty of racial judgement over here. My reaction: I don't care. Growing up in a particularly multicultural part of the UK throughout the late 80s and 90s has given me the opinion that racism is well over played in the west. If people want to be racist, let them. Who cares?

The issue with dark skinned thais is totally different, of course, but you as a foreigner, I don't see why you should be any more offended than me by the racism you experience here. And i'm not offended at all.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Ruperts

[geriatrickid]

LOZ, as demeaning and insulting as it is, you are just going to have to accept it. I have argued with my friend as to why he wastes so much money on his "skin whitening"shampoo and facial wash. When a university graduate tells me that having dark skin is bad, you just know it is a waste of energy and time to try and convince them otherwise. I tried by explaining what the product ingredients were and my friend's reply? But the commercial says it works and the people in the ad look good.

Look on the positive side. At least they wear their ignorance publicly and it is not always malicious in its intent. On the other hand, look at some of the very ignorant comments in here that generalize all Nigerians as drug dealers, that the jews control the world's economy, that the USA has secret agents everywhere seeking to take over the papaya trade etc. I think that some of TV's proud members are far more dangerous, offensive and bereft of functioning brain cells.

There just are not that many people of colour in Thailand and it's not like asian cultures have ever welcomed immigration from non asian sources as have European and especially North American societies where everyone was welcome.

[The Philosopher]

In Thailand you are in a different culture where people view anything away from the norm as something of interest. In Thai there are many nouns that when used are the literal translation of what is being said that is why they will sometimes call a black person as dam- because dam means black. I have a black dog at home and he is referred by all the Thai as Maa- dam. A dog which is black. I also have an albino cat at home and she is referred to as meow khoa or farang meow. There is no offence meant it is just an easy way to describe what they see

[Loz]

Please don't think I have any intention of trying to change thailand. I love it here. I was asking the question, "why do you suppose it is?"

thought it might be worth a little speculation.

If it bothered so much I would have:

a) raised it before now (in my fourth year here fulltime)

left!

just seemed folks were discussing sensitive topics with more care than I'd remembered seeing before so, thought it might be worth running up the flag pole.

[Loz]

A philipino girl I met a couple of years back said we have to drink lots of milk if we are going to have a baby because we are both too black. She was joking, we were not even dating. It became apparent this was a "classic" joke for those with dark skin. "accepted" in more places than Amex!

just funny, is all.

[PeaceBlondie]

It's not racism here. Even if you thought it was.

[SeanMoran]

Please don't think I have any intention of trying to change thailand. I love it here. I was asking the question, "why do you suppose it is?"

thought it might be worth a little speculation.

If it bothered so much I would have:

a) raised it before now (in my fourth year here fulltime)

left!

just seemed folks were discussing sensitive topics with more care than I'd remembered seeing before so, thought it might be worth running up the flag pole.

IMHO it's the thread of the evening. A good one to contemplate, because there's certainly a nationalist/racist sort of atmosphere in Thailand. It starts at the customs queue when we get off the plane, and it's a major part of everyday here to overcome the stereotypical assumptions that people instantly make the moment a strange face like mine walks in the door, or out in the street.

If I couldn't tolerate it, I wouldn't have come back for the third time in five years.

On the light/dark skin colour thing though, which is a different one to the Thai/foreigner one, it has come up in conversation with quite a few friends over the past month, where they comment on my so-called white skin, and wish their skin was lighter. So I put my arm and theirs side by side for comparison, (and these have all been females so most likely lighter skin than the average roof-carpenter bloke), and my skin is actually darker than theirs, although I realise my armpits are probably more pale. Sensation and perception are two different things. What our eyes see is not what our mind thinks they see.

[whistleblower]

It's not racism here. Even if you thought it was.

no your right its not racism.... its ignorance!

I remember a few years back an underwear company in UK produced bras and knickers with a buddha logo, the outpouring of disgust from the Thais was amazing. But at the same time you could go to any market and buy a swastika tshirt or a f@@k bush tshirt. when 7/11 happened jj market did a roaring trade in tshirts depicting bush/bin laden.

So chill out and dont worry about it. its not their fault their ignorant.

[Loz]

agreed,

Racism was the wrong word. I stand corrected.

[QED]

It's not racism here. Even if you thought it was.

no your right its not racism.... its ignorance!

I remember a few years back an underwear company in UK produced bras and knickers with a buddha logo, the outpouring of disgust from the Thais was amazing. But at the same time you could go to any market and buy a swastika tshirt or a f@@k bush tshirt. when 7/11 happened jj market did a roaring trade in tshirts depicting bush/bin laden.

So chill out and dont worry about it. its not their fault their ignorant.

What happened at the 7/11?

[phetaroi]

I'm fat and they all mention it. They seem to think that if something is obvious, why beat around the bush.

I agree with this specific post. It seems that a fact is a fact. "You're fat." "You're bald." "You're handsome." "How much did you pay for that shirt?" "How much do you earn in a year."

[anchan42]

Some Thais have lighter skin than other Thais have. It's not racism when they're all Thai to begin with. It's just skin colour.

Spot on. To Thais it's just skin color. In the west calling people black might related back to being enslaved or being lower class in society. Most Thais do not know how the the western world treated black people in the past. To many of them "Nico" is just a word that refer to people with black skin. Nothing rude or taboo about it what so ever. To Thais saying "He is a Nico" have the same level of politeness or rudeness as saying "He is a Chinese".

"Dam" is just a normal word mean black. They probably just try to be playful or friendly when they call people "Chocolate man".

My sister is relatively whiter then her husband. Her father in law call her อีเผือก which basically mean white girl.

My family have quite a good laugh about it when she tell us about this.

I have two nieces that took ofter her father in term of skin color. I and many people in the family including their parent teasing with them about their skin color all the time. We have a good laugh when the younger one she will be a good fashion model because of her dark skin.

Most Thais are Buddhism. Some of us believe that we are all traveler and our body is just a vessel which will have to be changed or even discarded completely in the case that we have eventually reach our destination. It is just not worth being worked up about it.

[anchan42]

Pots and kettles, really.

Now, that is politically incorrect.

[Texpatt]

Imagine that.

Describing something or someone by its color.

The nerve!

[anchan42]

It's not racism here. Even if you thought it was.

no your right its not racism.... its ignorance!

I remember a few years back an underwear company in UK produced bras and knickers with a buddha logo, the outpouring of disgust from the Thais was amazing. But at the same time you could go to any market and buy a swastika tshirt or a f@@k bush tshirt. when 7/11 happened jj market did a roaring trade in tshirts depicting bush/bin laden.

So chill out and dont worry about it. its not their fault their ignorant.

Talking about ignorance... swastika had been representing the wheel of Dharma long before Nazi used it.

Edited January 18, 2010 by anchan42

[eTiMaGo]

Talking about ignorance... swastika had been representing the wheel of Dharma long before Nazi used it.

bada-bing

Loz, you bring up a very interesting thread here, I suppose "white" farangs are still somewhat unusual, while "black" foreigners are pretty rare, so there'll always be an element of awe and wonder, I suppose!

but like a lot of posters above mentioned, I don't think there's usually any malice meant.

But yes, there is also a very unhealthy obsession with light skin... just as in Europe/USA, it's considered attractive to have a tan... everybody wants to be what they're not...

[way2muchcoffee]

It's definitely discrimination based on color. One need only go so far as the local cinema in BKK to see a sign advertising a job opening for which they will accept only attractive, light-skinned women.

[Loz]

But if you ask THais (which I have) they revered the swasika because of hitler. Why? Because he was a powerful leader.

I've just returned from Au manao Wing 5 base where we took some kids to the museum which explained in part WW2 and who was against who. later the same day a teenager when asked to make a presentation about what they had learned, opened his address with a Nazi Salute. He thought this was "cool". Another teacher explained privately why it wasn't and he was close to tears when he realised the implications. The other teacher was very gentle in her explanation but the reality sank in and this kid finally had a small understanding of the war and its implications for Thais.

[mahtin]

Talking about ignorance... swastika had been representing the wheel of Dharma long before Nazi used it.

But the NS boys reversed the swastika, as Satanists invert the crucifix.

[MrHammer]

It's not just Thais. Asians (in Asia) are very racist.

Who cares if they call you black. You are black aren't you? It's no different than 'farang'. It's the way it's said that matters. I think it's best to accept this way of thinking if you are going to live in Thailand. I don't see political correctness in Thailand for the next 20 years.

[hawthorne]

get a life. This is Thailand. How can you be offended?

Smile

[MiG16]

I have deleted a couple of posts with racial discriminatory language. the poster in question has been issued with a warning for using such offensive language

replies to those posts ahve also been deleted.

please keep it civil.