High School Diploma -

[Rolo Tomazi]

For my upcoming job as an english teacher I need a high school diploma - for immigrations, since they won't give me a work permit if I don't produce the paper. (True?) The highschool itself isn't very concerned about this matter; I've been teaching two terms without a visa at all; it was promised to me but I never got one. The response was: you'll get one next year.

Please don't judge me as a scoundrel who is trying to weasel himself into a position he's not qualified for. I have several years teaching experience and the schoolboard is satisfied with my performance. In fact, another teacher with a diploma will not continue teaching at our school since he had a lousy attitude and the kids didn't like him. To be a good teacher takes a lot of devotion and sensitivity for the students and surroundings and of course a lot of hard work. A high school diploma with a degree in Physics or who knows what is in my opinion not high the list of what makes a good teacher, but just a formality. I can understand that schools try to filter out applicants who are not qualified, and requesting a HSD is one way, but since I already proved that I am capable I don't see any harm in bending the rules a bit.

Any advice on where to go, who to ask, what to do?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You'll enjoy the jail and deportation is fun too. What you plan is called fraud.

[Jeff1]

Call your high school and ask them to send a new diploma .

Unless you did'nt finish high school . If thats the case try finishing in Thailand , quickly .

[PeaceBlondie]

Rolo, you appear to be teaching high school without having finished high school yourself. When did you drop out - fifth grade of primary?

It's called education, Rolo - you're supposed to be much more educated than the students you are supposedly educating.

It's the name of the game, Rolo - EARN a paper before you can teach others to earn a similar paper.

A troll by any other name....

[Rumpole]

A troll by any other name....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the name is ........ Marco ......

[Ijustwannateach]

Yup... he must be really bored.

"Steven"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Rolo must be shopping around Thanon K-S <_

[Rolo Tomazi]

Rolo must be shopping around Thanon K-S 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I thought you professionals might be able to hook me up with something better than KSR, instead of jumping to conclusions like BeachBlondie - nope, I didn't drop out of fifth grade - I went to high school but did drop out because I had better things to do. Why so aggressive? Is the heat getting to you?

I taught 15 year old students who couldn't write their name in english or spell the word "house" - yes, at a high school, M3, countryside. So you seriously think I can't teach them a thing because I didn't graduate from high school? I speak fluent french and german, studied japanese at a private school in Tokyo; I'd say it's you who has some catching up to do, q'esque tu pense? English isn't even my native language; I'm doing fine so far, don't I? And a teacher told me that he understands my english better than the other native speakers!

I don't understand your reaction when the teachers, students and administration of my school are happy with me and don't bother about a HSD even though they are the ones that are supposed to be concerned about it... TIT!

But I understand that you want to keep your website clean and don't want to make it a place to get illegal advice...

And sorry, no troll, this is good old Rolo Tomazi - remember where you read it first!

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry to have upset you, Rolo. But please note what I wrote: "Rolo, you appear to be teaching high school without having finished high school yourself. When did you drop out - fifth grade of primary?" It still appears that you attended high school, but did not finish. Maybe that doesn't matter. If anything, the Ministry of Education more likely requires a diploma that you graduated from university, not just high school. I admire you for wanting to teach; that's great.

I'm on record, here or elsewhere, as saying that yes indeedy, some matayom schools in the provinces could do just fine with a foreigner that only graduated from high school. Normally, I'd add the requirement that such a person should also be a native speaker, pero hay excepciones, verdad; no estoy cierto que eres una excepcion.

So, I won't even ask, I'll surmise: you came to Thailand without being a native speaker of English, and you've been teaching teenagers who are in high school. Fine. Now, you want to be legal? Sorry. If you use illegal documents, you'll still be illegal.

Hey, maybe the Thai managers at your school are not serious. If they like you, they'll overlook the paperwork. It happens all the time in the province where I teach; the Min. of Labour might not issue a work permit to a Ph.D. in linguistics.

Speaking of which, happy Labor Day.

Oh, reading your entire original post again, Rolo - do the Thais realize the difference between their ministries of labour, education, and immigration? Do they realize each agency does different things, like issue work permit, teacher's license (which you may not need at govt. school) and visas? If you're in a remote province, the authorities there may know nothing about their own govt. agencies.

Just keep asking them questions they can't answer; that'll shut them up. If you're a good teacher and they're desparate, they'll ignore the law. After all, this is Thailand.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Rolo is short on education but rather big in self confidence.

[mbkudu]

I am surprised that anyone even replied to his post. Is this a reply?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am surprised that anyone even replied to his post. Is this a reply?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How would you fancy ole Rolo trying to teach your own kids ?

[Khutan]

Rolo must be shopping around Thanon K-S 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is amazing how bad some of the fakes are there and the attitude of the forgers.

Saw some degrees from the same university as me, only problem is, they were printed the wrong way on the form. The real degrees are printed in "Portrait" or the sheet is vertical, these were Landscape or the sheet being left to right. I would like to see someone explain that one.

The other one was I had a forger tel me my Thai Drivers lisences were fake. Why, because they had consecutive numbers and some of the colours didn't look right. Of course they had come from the Transport ministary the week before.

[The_Other_Mac]

English isn't even my native language; I'm doing fine so far, don't I?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"aren't I".

[NaiGreg]

English isn't even my native language; I'm doing fine so far, don't I?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"aren't I".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"am I not?"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

English isn't even my native language; I'm doing fine so far, don't I?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"aren't I".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"am I not?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ole Rolo isn't the sharpest tool in the shed

[Dakhar]

Wow...

Let me get this right.

A) Teaching English

Not even a native English Speaker

C) High School Drop out

D) Feels qualifications merit teaching English

Boy this is full of logic.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Wow...

Let me get this right. 

A) Teaching English

Not even a native English Speaker

C) High School Drop out

D) Feels qualifications merit teaching English

Boy this is full of logic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ijustwannateach]

He's a troll, guys. A certain "Marko" used this handle a lot on another well-known Thai forum....

"Steven"

[sriracha john]

Good to see ya back at this forum, Rolo....

You're previous posts were nonsense... and this one is nonsense... at least you are a big believer in consistency.

It'll be a race to determine which governmental department will catch up with you first... Labour, Education, Immigration...

Happy running...

[kenkannif]

He's a troll, guys.  A certain "Marko" used this handle a lot on another well-known Thai forum....

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But it was spelt different when Marko used it.

It's from the film LA Confidential....the chap that supposedly killed Guy Pearce's character's dad in the film (or something like that!).

Edited May 3, 2005 by kenkannif

[dr_Pat_Pong]

We'll have to live without ole Rolo

[Rolo Tomazi]

Yes, and I'll try to survive without you guys, it's a promise!

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, and I'll try to survive without you guys, it's a promise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait, Rolo - I got a call yesterday - some guy in one of the more remote provinces called me. You teach 20 hours per week, in locations 30 km apart, and they pay you 20,000 baht per month. No work permit, of course, and no real communication. But you may be qualified!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yes, and I'll try to survive without you guys, it's a promise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You won't make it Rolo. You are your own worst enemy. and a cheat to boot. I won't wish you luck ... that'd be a waste of sentiment.

[shift2k]

Rolo must be shopping around Thanon K-S 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is amazing how bad some of the fakes are there and the attitude of the forgers.

Saw some degrees from the same university as me, only problem is, they were printed the wrong way on the form. The real degrees are printed in "Portrait" or the sheet is vertical, these were Landscape or the sheet being left to right. I would like to see someone explain that one.

The other one was I had a forger tel me my Thai Drivers lisences were fake. Why, because they had consecutive numbers and some of the colours didn't look right. Of course they had come from the Transport ministary the week before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe this will be my third post to this wonderful forum. Let me first say that I love reading the forum, and have received countless bits of information over the past year. I must say though, that many of you are down right condescending. It's not enough that you feel the need to comment at all, but then must continue to tear into another poster with out any regard for their feelings. The above post was most likely the product of a "Native" English teacher, yet appears to be no more grammatically correct than that of Mr. Tomazi.

I agree 100% that in order to teach, one must be more knowledgeable than those whom he/she will be teaching. A college degree is another matter, but the lack of a high school diploma says a lot about an individuals character. Just leave it at that. I do not know Mr. Tomazi, and will not begin to judge him. I feel strongly that any person should refrain from teaching without fulfilling even the most basic of our educational standards. Does this make him a "troll", or a "loser"? Does it mean that he is "stupid" or lacking intelligence? Of course not. I am the first of my family to finish both high school, and the University. Both of my parents are uneducated by most of your standards, yet are both very successful business people. They have made a life time of educating themselves. They provided a wonderful home life and raised me very well. They provided more than I could have ever dreamed up for myself. That being said, I would not want them to teach History, Science , or the like, to my children( or yours). While they both speak very proper English, they are not qualified to teach it; nor would consider doing so.

Let the posters make their posts. It's a free forum where people can pose questions to those of us who might be more knowledgeable in certain areas. If you don't like it, don't reply to it. If it's a stupid question, don't give a stupid answer. If it's not worth your time, don't waste your time. There is no reason to to make a person feel like an idiot. Some people are ignorant( in the best sense of the word) and truly feel as if they are asking a legit question. Give them a legit answer, if you have one, and leave it that. It's not my intention to wax "almighty" on everyone, just offering my humble oppinion.

It might be a good idea to add a spell check to the forum,it would make most of us appear more educated.

[Ijustwannateach]

Shift2K,

Your intentions seem good. However, newbies with outrageous posts or deep indignation about controversial topics (for which qualification levels for teaching in Thailand definitely count) are often only posting to be sarcastic or stir things up (people who do this are called trolls). From experience, most of us figure that the opening poster is obviously a troll- and if he's not, he should certainly expect some derision for planning to teach in school without having even graduated from a high school in his own country. Sorry, but that's how it goes. A line has to be drawn somewhere- many of us disagree on exactly where, but I think almost all of us would agree that the line is above the point of high school graduation. If you don't agree you'll find little sympathy here.

Odd that you would feel moved for one of your first posts to drag up this ol' horse...

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Mattnich's not a teacher mate, so kind of a moot point.

[mijan246]

Rolo must be shopping around Thanon K-S 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is amazing how bad some of the fakes are there and the attitude of the forgers.

Saw some degrees from the same university as me, only problem is, they were printed the wrong way on the form. The real degrees are printed in "Portrait" or the sheet is vertical, these were Landscape or the sheet being left to right. I would like to see someone explain that one.

The other one was I had a forger tel me my Thai Drivers lisences were fake. Why, because they had consecutive numbers and some of the colours didn't look right. Of course they had come from the Transport ministary the week before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe this will be my third post to this wonderful forum. Let me first say that I love reading the forum, and have received countless bits of information over the past year. I must say though, that many of you are down right condescending. It's not enough that you feel the need to comment at all, but then must continue to tear into another poster with out any regard for their feelings. The above post was most likely the product of a "Native" English teacher, yet appears to be no more grammatically correct than that of Mr. Tomazi.

I agree 100% that in order to teach, one must be more knowledgeable than those whom he/she will be teaching. A college degree is another matter, but the lack of a high school diploma says a lot about an individuals character. Just leave it at that. I do not know Mr. Tomazi, and will not begin to judge him. I feel strongly that any person should refrain from teaching without fulfilling even the most basic of our educational standards. Does this make him a "troll", or a "loser"? Does it mean that he is "stupid" or lacking intelligence? Of course not. I am the first of my family to finish both high school, and the University. Both of my parents are uneducated by most of your standards, yet are both very successful business people. They have made a life time of educating themselves. They provided a wonderful home life and raised me very well. They provided more than I could have ever dreamed up for myself. That being said, I would not want them to teach History, Science , or the like, to my children( or yours). While they both speak very proper English, they are not qualified to teach it; nor would consider doing so.

Let the posters make their posts. It's a free forum where people can pose questions to those of us who might be more knowledgeable in certain areas. If you don't like it, don't reply to it. If it's a stupid question, don't give a stupid answer. If it's not worth your time, don't waste your time. There is no reason to to make a person feel like an idiot. Some people are ignorant( in the best sense of the word) and truly feel as if they are asking a legit question. Give them a legit answer, if you have one, and leave it that. It's not my intention to wax "almighty" on everyone, just offering my humble oppinion.

It might be a good idea to add a spell check to the forum,it would make most of us appear more educated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shift2k Your post makes very good sense do not be put off by the use of the term "newbie" I think you will find there are several posters that are "trolls" and they are normally nipped in the bud by the Admin/Moderators.

KK's response is correct and he /she gives very good advice especially in the area of teaching in Thailand the important thing that shows out with KK is the advice is moderated with/by experience.

Regarding some of the other respondees - it makes you wonder as to their level of sincerety/commitment - the heat may well be the excuse - but excuse it is - they complain about wages, conditions etc and if you dare use that old chestnut " then why are you here (Thailand)" indignant they become and have offered the comeback:

# that is the reason for the forum "to complain about Thailands shortcomings"

-

(extract from another post - I am sure your initial post indicated that the point of a forum like this was not to pat ourselves on the back and say what a rosy life we lead, isnt it wonderful. Its to sort out all the problems and ask for solutions and ways round the daily unecessary crap that the thai bureaucracy think is important.

See post Teaching 12 In Thailand by Sonong1 for full details"

My answer to that is "&lt;deleted&gt;" .

Take the time to browse the "teaching" posts and I am sure you will recognise the trend. eg a recent post on "Volunteer English Teacher" they all but had the OP hung and quartered and yet only today I posted "English Conversation ---------Volunteering" and pointed out where there is a will there is a way - The certificate of appreciation received used the words "trainer" of "English for Tourism" More importantly it was signed by The Director of the School and the Director of the Office of xxxxxxxxxxx Educational Service Area Zone x.

I have just reread some of the responses and "Newbie" begs the question What is a newbie? I think it may be the opening for a new post and let the discussion continue from there.

[Ijustwannateach]

Seems to me that in the Volunteer thread they wound up discussing the relevant law and came to the correct conclusion; that work done voluntarily is still illegal unless some paperwork is done. I'm still trying to figure out how your post relates to the topic of Teaching In Thailand without a high school diploma.