Abhisit Sets Human Rights Record Poorer

[rixalex]

..... He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics.....

Who gave him a way out? The government at the time was led by the PPP, a strongly (to say the least) pro-Thaksin government. You think they shooed him out? Or are you suggesting that there is a grouping of people that makes huge decisions outside of and above Thai law?

It wasn't the PPP that granted him permission to leave, it was the courts, as i recall.

Here is the full paragraph that I part-quoted from Ballpoint earlier: "Thaksin is one of the few who has been charged and convicted because he didn't play the game. The succession of corrupt leaders that have been exposed and displaced in the past have generally been allowed to quietly move away from the limelight, keeping their money in most cases, in exchange for their silence and non interference. The trough is vacated for the next snouts. Thaksin had to be dragged screaming from the trough, tried to take it with him, and is now threatening to burn it down or blow it up when he found that he couldn't. There is no doubt in my mind that he could have been sitting on a very nice beach somewhere, and eventually allowed back into Thailand, with all his money restored to him, had he gone away quietly. He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics, but his mixture of arrogance, greed and lust for power meant that he had to try and get it all back. By any means."

This doesn't read like someone's opinion on court rulings to me. Does it to you?

I was replying in reference to the single sentence you quoted: He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics..... Not the entire paragraph, as you have now quoted.

[hammered]

The only money for daily politcal support being offered around in villages right now is certainly not coming from the yellow side who remain very quiet.

Please note I do know that that both colour coded nutjob groups have their cultish unpaid followers. Please note that wheneve there is a big rally planned money gets offered to boost numbers.

[Siam Simon]

[]

I was replying in reference to the single sentence you quoted: He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics..... Not the entire paragraph, as you have now quoted.

Yes, I noticed. You didn't bother reading the rest of the thread then?

[rixalex]

[]

I was replying in reference to the single sentence you quoted: He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics..... Not the entire paragraph, as you have now quoted.

Yes, I noticed. You didn't bother reading the rest of the thread then?

I bothered it just wasn't what i was replying to.

[Siam Simon]

[]

I was replying in reference to the single sentence you quoted: He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics..... Not the entire paragraph, as you have now quoted.

Yes, I noticed. You didn't bother reading the rest of the thread then?

I bothered it just wasn't what i was replying to.

OK. No probs, care to reply to the full paragraph that I quoted from Ballpoint then?

[anotherpeter]

Some clods have no interest in the independence of the law whatsoever. For them the law is purely another 'political' tool to be dispensed with according to who has the power (and the money) at any one time. Their frenzy is motivated towards Thaksin having that power. Red apologists have only contempt for the law. For this reason, the only way they know how to undermine the very detailed conviction of Thaksin is to accuse their political opponents of similar crimes. For the reds, the two accusations cancel each other out. This is not to say that the red apologists have a worked out philosophical position. They haven't. They only have an unconditional commitment to Thaksin. For the defence of Thaksin, any and all arguments will do, either to be adopted or discarded. Once you understand this you understand everything.

Have the courts actually changed with all the political/military changes in the last few years. I don't think they have. They have been the same through Thaksin, the coup, the election, the PPP, and Abhisit.

One of the reds standard "defenses" of Thaksin is the bias of the courts, but all they have done is judge based on the laws - laws that were there before Thaksin was PM.

[animatic]

..... He was given a way out when they allowed him to leave for the Olympics.....

Who gave him a way out? The government at the time was led by the PPP, a strongly (to say the least) pro-Thaksin government. You think they shooed him out? Or are you suggesting that there is a grouping of people that makes huge decisions outside of and above Thai law?

Ballpoint is spot on.

Thaksin wasa given a chance by all elements to scoot off quietly

and do the 'Thai way' of ending this hge has refused for the reasons Ballpoint suggests.

Many groups quietly left him access to the door to go to the Olympics without protests,

but initially the courts , then PPP Attn Gen. then PAD, not protesting or blocking,

then most everyone else with an ounce of protesting power the problem was,

the putz never took the hint from the 10km long billboard erected for him.

He never took the hint from Potjamin calling it a day, from Newing calling it a day,

from the worlds leaders dropping his cause in double quick time after Songkran.

Hubris of a brusied ego might explain ity, but most leaders in the past had huge egos too,

so it moves on to some borderline psychosis particularly under pressure.

Not to say he is certifible, but just that he DOES seem to lose touch with reality,

in his little Sycophants Castle of yes men and can do sir world he has enforced for himself.

I still firmly believe this was a root cause in his being deposed,

he just doesn't know when to stop, and is worse under stress,

and is stressed out when opposed. in 2006 he was essentially alone at the top,

no legislature in office, thinking cabinet members bailing in disgust,

and the army in dispute within itself over his promotions schemes to gain control with in it.

No doubt he was deemed a clear and present danger to the nation.

Contrast this with today.

Most of the human rights issues thrown in Abhisits lap are done by others without his

acquiescence, but he gets blamed because he is at the top. Certainly the Hmong repatriations

were handled top to bottom, but were also in the pipeline for a long time before Abhisit came to office.

Often these 'offenses' come to a halt as soon as Abhisit knows of them,

but the Red side never acknowledges that fact. The army which isn't one homogenous whole,

but many factions does it's thing at echelon levels and when word gets out, word comes down to stop it.

An main point ignored by Reds looking for reasons to topple Abhisit

is that HRW never said he is doing poorer, but that the improvement they hoped for never happened.

A big difference between doing worse than Takbai and not doing the right think by the Rhohingas.

And remember this is the same Army factions doing that, the ones getting bombed at daily in tyhe south.

No doubt there is a 'Bunker mentality' that is intolerant of pesky politicians kow towing to outside politicians

while their asses are getting targeted. Doesn't make their actions right, but does explain their attitude to some extent.

This OP headline is spin, and set to make disccusion, but it has devolved mostly a reiterating of

the usual talking points for toppling the government, and not about the issues.

Boilerplate and not substance.

[animatic]

I see this thread has been hijacked by the usual inhouse PAD supporting, anti-democracy, vested interest, 500 baht a dayers.

Dear CLOD,

But to be serious, for a moment, I don't know of any paid "inhouse" posting-team here, anti-democracy & pro-vested-interests or otherwise. TV is open to all persuasions, unless they are foul-mouthed or flaming others, which gets people banned.

This is just puppeting the poistion of Ferwert who decided that

I am a paid "TFV Operative" to post endlessly for the Yellow side,

and aid in banning all Red counter thought in TVF.

He also thinks Dr. Pat Pong and Jingthing are one in the same,

one as mod and the other as yellow Spin Meister.

It seems some are so convinced that ONLY their world view can be correct,

that ALL those opposing must be on someones pay roll, or just trying to imply that,

and all opposing must be YELLOW devils, members in good standing of PAD.

but only pretending to have their own opinions.

And since it is pretty obvious from timing and content that Reds DO post differently

and in an organized manner prior to big 'Red Events' that there IS an organized

PR agenda in opperation targeting TVF and other forums.

Their internal logic of sorts says:

Since this is clearly so, there 'MUST' also be a TVF targeting yellow operation too???

Well campers if there WAS one, I am SURE I would have been approached to participate,

and I haven't been. Nor ever had a HINT that such an exercise existed.

It never seems to sink in that some people just have their own minds,

and see even handed discussion of Red points as OK,

but not blanket, blinkered, incessant adoration of Thaksin and efforts to return Thaksin to power

as a good thing. Especially when much of it is obviously propaganda based LIES....!

If Thaksin wasn't so monomaniacal about this failed image make over,

and continuous attempts to bring down the government,

several of us would not post on the subject as often.

If there is a bias at TVF,

it is for the country to run smoothly and for tourists,

and expats and their wives ands families to have a good life here.

As with ALL Thais in Thailand.

This doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out,

but the rockets Red Glare seems to blind a few posters here....

[rixalex]

I bothered it just wasn't what i was replying to.

OK. No probs, care to reply to the full paragraph that I quoted from Ballpoint then?

Ballpoint as usual summed it up very clearly.

The courts were the ones as i recall who signed off for Thaksin to leave the country to visit the Olympics. Whether or not that decision was subject to interference or not i really don't know. In any event whoever had the final word on the matter i think granted permission knowing full well that Thaksin would likely not return. Thaksin was in a very tight corner and was being given an out i believe, and on the unspoken understanding that he would make himself scarce for a number of years until such a time when feelings had died down from all quarters and everyone would let bygones be bygones.

Thaksin bolted through the door that was being held open for him, but then had other ideas about his future. He was up for a fight. Good for him. But the way to do it wasn't to run away. He should have stayed like a man and fought through proper legal channels, and if it came to it, he should have accepted some self-sacrifice. Surely what he was fighting for was worth that? Seems not.

[rixalex]

Some clods have no interest in the independence of the law whatsoever. For them the law is purely another 'political' tool to be dispensed with according to who has the power (and the money) at any one time. Their frenzy is motivated towards Thaksin having that power. Red apologists have only contempt for the law. For this reason, the only way they know how to undermine the very detailed conviction of Thaksin is to accuse their political opponents of similar crimes. For the reds, the two accusations cancel each other out. This is not to say that the red apologists have a worked out philosophical position. They haven't. They only have an unconditional commitment to Thaksin. For the defence of Thaksin, any and all arguments will do, either to be adopted or discarded. Once you understand this you understand everything.

Go on then, earn your 500 baht today, and explain the finer points of the independance of the military junta coup-issued law, as decreed lawfull by the military junta appointed judiciary??

Yoshiwara made plenty of points, could you not even attempt to address one of them?

The biggest crime of all is illegal military coup.

Really? You don't think that murder is a bigger crime? No? How about murdering thousands? Still not bigger?