Bakery Business?

[Nongluck]

Thai wife who loves to bake is considering a baking venture. She has recieved recent requests after giving samples to friends, including a major international school. Her style is a western style as I know it from USA. ie, sweet,moist full body baking as best i can describe it. I dont like the light,dry not sweet brownies and cakes i have gotten other bakeries. Seems alot of others agree including thais that have tried her cakes,pies,muffins, brownies, and my favorite, banana bread with walnuts and chocolate chips,mmm lol.

Anyway, here is the deal, I have checked and know the pitfalls of starting a business here, but we have a unique opportunity here as her friend allready has a restaurant and will let her use the kitchen for baking. With very low overhead we think she could do her baking there and then start distributing it out of there, her friend actually places noodles as part of her business and used to place baking too before she got to busy with the noodles, I think she could do it, Like I said with the very low overhead I think its an affordable way to get started

Any suggestions on placing product,delivery,locations,distribution etc, would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Ulysses G.]

The good news is it should not be too expensive to get started this way.

The bad news is that IMHO a good, centrally located bakery would get a lot more attention and in the long run, earn a lot more money than just placing bakery products in stores and there is very little competition as far as decent farang bakeries.

It takes money to make money, so if things are going well, you might consider your own place.

[kangaloowest]

I have a friend that runs a very profitable Bakery business on Phuket Island and carries out all his baking from home and delivers the products ( Pies,Pasties,Sherperds Pie) to his customers that call him when they need him,

He created his own brand name & made a large sticker that fits to the rear window on his car and on the plastic bags that the various products are put into he has his Brand name again made from stickers from a program on his home computer.

If the product is good then by word of mouth it will be sort after,

Word of advise is do not get big too quickly or you may have trouble keeping up with the demand,

Best of Luck to you mate

[scorecard]

You might like to consider whether it's really necessary to sell through other restaurant, mini-marts etc., from the point of view of profit margin.

If the customer will pay 10Baht and the materials, production and selling costs are 5 Baht, then your top line margin 5Baht..

So here's the question. Do you want the whole 5 Baht profit margin for yourself and for funding further business development, or are you going to share that with margin with the restaurant which actually presents it to he customer?

Another point; If you believe a good price is 10Baht for the product (what the customer will pay and worth your time and effort considering the available margin, and this is the price point where you want to be in this market) then maybe you cannot control the restaurant (or whatever) which actually puts the product on their shelves and they price it too high and it doesn't sell! Now you have a situation where that restaurant don't want any more and if it has your brand name there is a risk that potential clients will see your brand as too highly priced.

Another point; one of the important factors in this type of business is control of wastage. Ultimately you need to ensure you don't have too much inventory of unused raw materials which is pulling your cash flow situation down.

Plus (even more important) ensure that raw materials are not wasted in the process of getting to the final packaged product. e.g. Many people, when they cook at home prepare too much food and it gets thrown away, or they cut up 2 onions when 1 onion is sufficient to achieve the flavor they want. etc.

- Preparing and packaging 100 units when the projected sales for the day is perhaps 70 and finished product does not generate revenue let alone margin, in other words it's cash down the drain. But of course the projected sales numbers should be reviewed continuously.

- Preparing say 1 kilo of pastry to make 'XXX' pastries and it turns out to be too much pastry. There should be a plan whereby the left over can be turned into another product rather then sit unused and then thrown away. If it ends up being thrown away then again it's cash down the drain.

Hope this is helpful. When you've got some product on the shelves somewhere why not keep TV members informed. I'm always ready to try some delicious moist cookies.

GOOD LUCK!

Edited January 22, 2010 by scorecard

[Nongluck]

Ha ha, nice , funny and informative replies, much appreciated. She is currently talking to her friend as i speak. I will post results, i believe though her friend will let her do this with just a little compensation to rent kitchen. And yes, i give samples to all friends and will set up a drop-in tasting party as we are newly relocated here.

thanks, good info

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Nongluck,

Disclaimer : we know nothing about the bakery business in Chiang Mai other than our own experience as a frequent previous consumer of muffins, sweet rolls, cinnamon rolls, sesame buns, etc. The variety of specialized baked goods kind of jumps out at us these days, as we observe, in wonder, what appears like a very successful pretzel business in Airport Plaza, and the "Japanese" style bakeries also in Airport Plaza. We suspect it's quite competitive.

It sounds to us like you have an ideal way to start a business, with low initial capital outlay, low risk, etc., and let it grow "organically."

One thing we would like to suggest to you : to keep your "business plans" rather "secret," and just "do it."

There are numbers of very dubious farangs around here posing as "consultants" of one kind or another; some are out and out charlatans, some have "awarded themselves" fake doctoral degrees, some have either invented "legends" (conscious scams), or crossed that point, in their own minds, where they no longer can distinguish between what they are, and who they wished they had been.

And some are just people who were very "small potatoes" back home, came to Thailand, and became infected/inflated with what we call "Farang Grandiosity Syndrome" : turning, in a few months, from mildly successful something-or-others into "captains of industry," from mundane blue-collar workers into veritable fountains of MBA-jargon.

In our years here, we have seen some dreadful rip-offs of farangs by farangs : we speak not just of minor theft or fraud, but complete loss of life-savings, and even collaboration in fraud by farangs with Thai people whose official capacities we dare not speak of.

Typically you can recognize these predatory expat characters by the following signs :

1. a lack of specifics in what they talk about

2. glib statements about advertising and marketing

3. general anti-social attitude that will "leak out" quite easily : absolute hostility to anyone who challenges them to be specific. they will often pursue "vendettas," and of them the old saw attributed to Arabs : "the friend of my enemy is my enemy," or its dangerous reverse, "the enemy of ,my enemy is my friend" will characterize their cognitive style.

4. a consistent theme of self-promotion in whatever they say

5. they typically make many allusions to their own success, and imply that they are in possesion of "secrets" that will make your own "success" : "easy."

6. they will often claim to have "connections" with high ranking Thais.

7. they will often have strong negative views of other farangs who are obviously successful in business here.

8. they will often have a "treasure chest" of stories whose gist is that they are the "victims" of being ripped off by other farangs themselves, and that they are the ones who had the "original ideas" that other people have made money with.

So, do be careful, and we wish you best of luck with what sounds like a very good idea.

Start small, focus on quality relentlessly, be nimble and ready to seize opportunity, and guard your recipes, contacts, and techniques like "atomic secrets"

We look forward to dipping one of your tasty muffins in hot soy milk one day (the only way, alas, we can swallow such wonders).

best, ~o:37;

Edited January 22, 2010 by orang37

[FarangCravings]

One of the worst things I hate about birthdays is the sickly cakes they sell here GROSS disgusting taste I would love a place that uses FRESH cream in cakes

There is a Bakery in Vietienne called the Scandanavian Bakery and it sells cakes eclairs breads croissants etc all absolutely delicious, it also sports a cafe type place where you can order coffee and sandwich and eat in.

A place like that in CM i think would be kick ass but as UG says you have to be centrally located I believe to be serious.

Word of mouth will spread if good but i dont think I would order from a delivery service I like to look at the display, they all look so nice

[orang37]

... snip ... There is a Bakery in Vietienne called the Scandanavian Bakery and it sells cakes eclairs breads croissants etc all absolutely delicious ... snip ..."

Sawasdee Khrup Khun FarangCravings,

Indeed ! That is a great bakery : the spinach quiche there is the best we've had in Asia (even with only a few percent of our taste buds working). To find their website just google on : vientiane "scandinavian bakery." They have a great location there at the "Fountain" (Namphou Circle, Phangkham Road).

We were lucky enough to meet the owner, Khun Sune Wissmar, in November; he's married to a woman who's in his country's diplomatic service posted in Laos. Very friendly man who's been a baker for over forty years.

Our favorite place for quiche right now in Chiang Mai is the "Upper Crust," opposite the Railway Station : nice people, clean place. Somewhat of a paradox that we can not swallow the "crust" at the "Upper Crust," but we ain't complaining

We think Khun Nongluck can benefit from observing either of those establishments.

best, ~o:37;

[newbie001]

There is a place called cake cottage that has excellent bakery and lunchtime food.

I would suggest before investing any money, is to do a product sampling. You got friends and people that you know saying the food is great but what about the common public?

Hire some people to give free samples of your products at the Airport Plaza, and Central Plaza. Have comment cards and ask the advice of people that would be your consumers.

I feel that if you don't have a business plan, and strategy and really know the market you will work real hard waste your money and not succeed in the long run.

Even with a great product without a professional plan, things don't often succeed.

I do wish you good luck.

Also remember this, if your wife's recipes are for small batches you cannot just multiply the recipe by 5 to make larger batches. It doesn't work out that way. There is a big difference from being a good home cook/baker and a professional.

[hawthorne]

When you open post on here so we know the location. Nothing like the smell of a bakery.

Good luck.

[Asmerom]

I would love a place that uses FRESH cream in cakes

UG : "you have to be centrally located I believe to be serious."

Fresh cream in the cakes !! Here here to that. The nearest approach I've found is the scrumptious mango cheescake in Starbucks. But I rarely bother as their prices are outrageous.

As to being centrally located ; what about

Bake and Bite and Love at First Bite, both acoss the River and appear to be thriving.

Jo's Bakery in Hang Dong, and even Butter is Better, well South of the town.

[getgoin]

It's 9:00 on a Saturday morning. This is the time that a bakery hits its stride with fresh breads, croissants, Danishes and pastries. It's what divides the real bakeries from, well, every bakery in Chiang Mai.

Three times I have driven around early on Saturday morning looking for fresh bakery. The closest I got was Kasem store. Bake and Bite had 2 day old cinnamon buns. They promised to fill the case by the afternoon.

You want to open a bakery? Be prepared to get up at 4:00 and get the ovens hot. Fill the store by 6 with the smell of fresh bread. Sell good coffee and sandwiches. That's a bakery.

Selling cakes and brownies to your friends? That's not a bakery, that's a hobby. We've disgusted hobby businesses here before. Your wife wants a hobby? Sure, why not. Maybe it will grow into a bakery.

[Loaded]

There's a small margin on bakery products after you deduct the overhead. Renting somewhere central will increase the overhead substantially. In addition, just go to Rimping and look at how many competitors your wife will have in Chiang Mai. There must be at least 5 or 6 local bakers and pie producers placing their products on their shelves and many of their products stay on the shelves until removed by their producer.

[Ulysses G.]

Fresh cream in the cakes !! Here here to that. The nearest approach I've found is the scrumptious mango cheescake in Starbucks. But I rarely bother as their prices are outrageous.

Here is a hot tip that could help your budget. The scrumptious mango cheesecake in Starbucks (and almost all of their baked goods) is made at the Upper Crust which is right across from the train station and is much cheaper than Starbucks.

[Nongluck]

Thank you for all the informative and good suggestions. My wife spoke to her friend who own the restaurant and she can have full access for free. So that is good. As was posted I think we will go at it from the "Hobby" point of view, do not want to sock a big investment into a business now. Will let the wife do it for fun and a little extra money and see where it goes from there. In the mean time , the wife wants to work and is looking for work that is not telemarketing. She is fluent bilingual , educated and a hard worker who has worked in the states as well. so...if someone knows someone with a legit job, let us know thanks.....and we will do the baking on the side and see how it goes.....thanks

Nongluck

, Chiangmai 50000

Email: [email protected]

Objective

Utilize diverse skills and experience in the hospitality industry for establishment of a challenging and rewarding career for personal growth in the industry.

Achievements

• Extensive personal interaction through global travel and communication within the hospitality industry dealing with diverse nationalities and cultures. Bilingual in English and Thai.

• Exercised multiple organizational skills including bookings, reservations, time management and client supervision.

Experience

Kohl’s Department Store Scottsdale Az. USA 2008 - July 2009

Floor sales associate

• Greets customers and offers assistance as needed. Assists in store recovery and executing merchandising as well as operational functions including cashier. Extensive customer contact exceeding company standards and performance evaluations.

Udomporn Tours Chiang Mai Thailand 2000 - 2007

Tour Operator

• Coordination of exclusive tours for international clients. Personalized tour guide as well as organization, sales and support including bookings, reservations, car rental and guest services.

White Lotus Chiang Mai Thailand

Waitress and greeter 1995 -1999

• Waitress and greeter for full service International Thai and French European restaurant.

Internship for Banquet, Waitress and server for Imperial, Empress and Westin Hotels.

Education

B.A. Tourism, 1999

Rachabhat University, Lampang, Thailand

Hospitality, Tourism Management. First honors student.

H.S. Diploma, Business, 1995

Lampang Vocational College, Lampang Thailand

General business, Accounting, Typing, Secretarial business. City Hall internship

[newbie001]

I really don't think that you should post your wife's resume on the board.

PS if you may want her to have her resume professionally typed. That resume needs a lot of work. I am surprised she got a job in the US with that resume.

[krading]

It's 9:00 on a Saturday morning. This is the time that a bakery hits its stride with fresh breads, croissants, Danishes and pastries. It's what divides the real bakeries from, well, every bakery in Chiang Mai.

Three times I have driven around early on Saturday morning looking for fresh bakery. The closest I got was Kasem store. Bake and Bite had 2 day old cinnamon buns. They promised to fill the case by the afternoon.

You want to open a bakery? Be prepared to get up at 4:00 and get the ovens hot. Fill the store by 6 with the smell of fresh bread. Sell good coffee and sandwiches. That's a bakery.

Selling cakes and brownies to your friends? That's not a bakery, that's a hobby. We've disgusted hobby businesses here before. Your wife wants a hobby? Sure, why not. Maybe it will grow into a bakery.

Spot on getgoin, and bloody hard work to boot.

BIL started one from his house and was doing ok selling to the local school until the teachers told the kids they weren't allowed to buy from him anymore as the school kitchen was losing out.

Trod on someone's toes.

Sold the gear and opened a casino instead.

[Gonzo the Face]

It's 9:00 on a Saturday morning. This is the time that a bakery hits its stride with fresh breads, croissants, Danishes and pastries. It's what divides the real bakeries from, well, every bakery in Chiang Mai.

Three times I have driven around early on Saturday morning looking for fresh bakery. The closest I got was Kasem store. Bake and Bite had 2 day old cinnamon buns. They promised to fill the case by the afternoon.

You want to open a bakery? Be prepared to get up at 4:00 and get the ovens hot. Fill the store by 6 with the smell of fresh bread. Sell good coffee and sandwiches. That's a bakery.

Selling cakes and brownies to your friends? That's not a bakery, that's a hobby. We've disgusted hobby businesses here before. Your wife wants a hobby? Sure, why not. Maybe it will grow into a bakery.

Spot on getgoin, and bloody hard work to boot.

BIL started one from his house and was doing ok selling to the local school until the teachers told the kids they weren't allowed to buy from him anymore as the school kitchen was losing out.

Trod on someone's toes.

Sold the gear and opened a casino instead.

....... weren't allowed to buy any longer....... gee that sounds familiar....

Nongluck...... mind your p's & q's ..... think with your head more than your heart and make your own decisions.

Other than that, thank you for your kind words in another thread and remember that a lot of us are here to help if we can....It was enjoyable talking to you both.

Keep us posted and make sure we get some samples...... for a reduced fee of course.

Gonzo

[Asmerom]

Here is a hot tip that could help your budget. The scrumptious mango cheesecake in Starbucks (and almost all of their baked goods) is made at the Upper Crust which is right across from the train station and is much cheaper than Starbucks.

Amazing what you learn on this board and some of it's even useful. Many thanks for that tip UG.

[coolxten]

Why not start out small? Sell the baked goods at the evening food market in front of Cental or the Sunday market a few times to get feedback to see what exactly people like. That way you can find out what makes the most money and how you can maxiumize.

Business it tricky.....if you mass sell right away and certain things bomb. Your vendors are going to be less likely to sell your stuff again as you try to make changes to improve.

Also remember that Marketing is key. How the bake goods looks and is packaged has a lot to do with how much people are welling to pay.....

Good luck!

[Nongluck]

If you have read the 'meat lovers' thread, my wife has brought samples to Gonzo at Poon Poon and we have gotten other good reviews and even an order. We are considering bringing freee samples for all this saturday as mentioned in the other thread. Would like imput of anyone that would be interested.

[TheWalkingMan]

Spoke to a baker in Thailand once and his biggest tip was to make sure you have a consistent flour supplier as sometimes the flour will be old. If the flour is too old the gluten will change which will effect cooking time and taste. I have no idea about this, but it is what the baker said and I am just passing it on.

Good luck and I hope the goods are tasty and sell well.

TheWalkingMan

[Nongluck]

Its official, the wife made a bunch of samples including, cherry cheescake, fudge brownies, chocolate and butterscothch cupcakes and we will be bringing them by to our favorite restaurant ..Pun Pun guesthouse today about 1 pm if any one would like to preview free (or small donation) samples just drop by.