Chiang Mai In Chaos

[caf]

I do not think there will be a pardon but a "formula" might be put to him in strong enough terms and from a strong authority that allows neither he nor the "rich"* as Ukysses calls them to lose face. Many are still looking at this with Western eyes.

caf

* most powerful people are rich.

but it is the elite groups, not all of whom are rich, that one must consider. status and face are important here not simply wealth. but yes most people in power are rich

My guess is that most people understood what I mean by "rich" without the convoluted, in-depth explanation.

That's a bit rich!!

Well said, Kevin. Very droll, but dont wind the man up. Its difficult keeping him on topic at the best of times. He does make some good points but when I qoute them he edits those out and reverts to snide remarks on grammar and style.

You once told me you like pissing people off on TV. I did not realise it was so contagious that he picked it up.

On topic, do you have any thoughts on Chiangmai in Chaos. Personally I do not think it is.

caf

[KevinHunt]

 

My guess is that most people understood what I mean by "rich" without the convoluted, in-depth explanation.

That's a bit rich!!

Well said, Kevin. Very droll, but dont wind the man up. Its difficult keeping him on topic at the best of times. He does make some good points but when I qoute them he edits those out and reverts to snide remarks on grammar and style.

You once told me you like pissing people off on TV. I did not realise it was so contagious that he picked it up.

On topic, do you have any thoughts on Chiangmai in Chaos. Personally I do not think it is.

caf

I wasn't winding UG up. I'm on his side.

I was merely playing with words. It's not quite right that I like pissing people off on TV. I amuse myself by taking the piss out of people who take themselves too seriously, or only see the negative side to living in Thailand.

You are on my 'ignore' list, but I made an exception since you were trying to include me in your endless attacks on UG.

Edited February 4, 2010 by KevinHunt

[caf]

On topic, do you have any thoughts on Chiangmai in Chaos. Personally I do not think it is.

caf

I wasn't winding UG up. I'm on his side.

I was merely playing with words. It's not quite right that I like pissing people off on TV. I amuse myself by taking the piss out of people who take themselves too seriously, or only see the negative side to living in Thailand.

You are on my 'ignore' list, but I made an exception since you were trying to include me in your endless attacks on UG.

He referred to you in his post. I did not bring your name up

I suggest a truce in this silly game, perhaps you could broker it?

I enjoy your repartee as I have said below. What pisses me off is when replies are totally off topic, not really funny, and only have the intention of name-calling or worse.

If I post something I expect some to agree, some to disagree, someto make a good joke. No problem. The treality is not that , is it?

Let's broker something. I am up for it. Are you and Ulysses

( Would have preferred for this to be by pm but obviously I can't because you have both put blocks on)

caf

[Ricardo]

OK, I hear you all.

I really am concerned for Thailand, and care about it passionately like all the above posters. Whatever your political beliefs. And my Thai political beliefs are surprisingly neutral, as I like to think I can see both sides. I read a lot about Thai politics, on a daily basis.

So can I humbly offer a suggestion? Maybe a better track to take this discussion?

Rather than recriminate about the past, can we offer in some constructive way some way for our Thai brethren to get out of this impasse?

Like...listen to each other?

Or....think of the whole good of the people?

Maybe....not worry about loss of power and face?

Positive, constructive comments, that don't focus on the past, but rather are policy initiatives for the future.

I wait with bated breath.

Would Clorets help that?

There is a simple way out.

The current elected government finishes its term of office or folds when the coalition dies. Thaksin returns to Thailand and starts his 2 years in jail and appears before the court to answer the other charges against him. The Reds allow open campaigning in all districts. The Reds don't commit electoral fraud in the next elections.

The rest of the people facing charges resulting from protests and violence ALL get their days in court. The guilty pay (remember there are some pretty hefty civil cases too) either in cash or in time in jail or both. The innocent walk. I do think that many will walk from criminal cases but will get hammered into the ground by the civil cases! I know law well enough to be able to predict how many of the PAD leadership will escape jail time (legally)

Result .....

The Reds probably win by a small margin like the last time and form a coalition government that is NOT backed by Thaksin. The Dems become the opposition party like the last time. They Dems learn that they need something far stronger than history to hold on to the premiership and start adopting programs of real social value in Thailand or lose what social relevance they do have. I think under Abhisit they will do well. Then things are 'normalized'. Granted I could be wrong about the Red's winning by a small margin next time if they do not have access to Thaksin's cash.

McG, watch out for that 'bated breath' you might catch something (cue for a fishy-photo from Ian F ?).

jd, what you said.

Get the Thaksin-trials out-of-the-way, showing that nobody is too big or too rich, to be completely above the law.

Apply equal justice to the rest of them. Continue to fight corruption, political or financial, but it will be a long war on that.

Then move forward towards a 'cleaner' election, where I agree that PTP (sans Thaksin's mis-direction) would once again be one of the two major parties, and both they and the Dems should refocus much more on what serves the country and its poorer people. Including all the dispossessed, who were born here, but still can't get Thai I.D. cards.

Thailand has got to change, this will be far easier and less-violent if the old elite co-operate with the process, but nor would it help to have a one-man dictatorship next, running the country for the benefit of his family and friends only.

Time for the departure of the political 'dinosaurs', and a new younger generation of politicians, and I don't mean just their sons/daughters ! Time also for more tolerance and less censorship.

[jdinasia]

btw, Change what???

This is what my original post said:

"1. Every wrongdoer (including coup leaders) be prosecuted, or otherwise there should be an amnesty for all, including Thaksin."

I should let it go, but you seem the type who needs to be told you are WRONG!

As its clear not all who should be punished will be, the way forward is to provide amnesty to all, then proceed to steps 2 and 3.

Yes .. we agree -- Prosecuted. That is what you said at first. Then you CHANGED it to say since you would likely not get the convictions the way YOU want to see them, that it had to be amnesty for Thaksin. Quite disingenuous to make the offer* and then retract it like that. Everyone gets their day in court. The guilty pay/do time and the innocent (or those not proven guilty) walk.

Yes you ducked every other point brought up. What 'unelected institutions' (note the plural) are you discussing when you say that?

Quit hiding and say what you mean. There is no honesty in a post that ducks answering direct questions.

Yes you have threatened to not respond to me in the past .. because you were outgunned and you are doing so now. Am I concerned by this? No. You won't live up to what you say any more than Thaksin did when he 'quit politics'.

Edited February 4, 2010 by jdinasia

[ogb]

Yes you have threatened to not respond to me in the past .. because you were outgunned and you are doing so now. Am I concerned by this? No. You won't live up to what you say any more than Thaksin did when he 'quit politics'.

ROFLMAO

Outgunned by you - in your dreams!

Just cannot be bothered wasting any more time on an intractable, blinkered, stooge.

[Ulysses G.]

Let's broker something. I am up for it. Are you and Ulysses

caf

To be blunt, I have seen how you have acted with other posters and I just don't think that you can control your urge to follow certain posters around and nitpick about little unimportant details in their posts. It does not add to any discussion, but is just annoying.

If you want to broker a "deal", I think it best that you put Kevin and I on ignore and we will return the favor. You do not mention us and we will not mention you. Is that acceptable?

[chiang mai]

This is too funny, the title of the thread is "CM in Chaos" yet the only thing that seems to be in real chaos is the CM thread on TV, are civil disturbances contagious or is such behaviour simply a bi-product of too much pollution?

[Ulysses G.]

You have a point.

[ogb]

This is too funny, the title of the thread is "CM in Chaos" yet the only thing that seems to be in real chaos is the CM thread on TV, are civil disturbances contagious or is such behaviour simply a bi-product of too much pollution?

I out of CM at present so cannot blame the pollution

CMF - agree about how its pointless to discuss/argue with someone with a closed mind.

[jdinasia]

I have blocked jdinasia from PMs as he is rude and agressive - and has no understanding of Thai sensibilities regarding the situation and his ears are closed! just makes me more resolute - talk about brain-washed... Lawdy Lawdy

:-) I welcome anyone that wants the PM's that went back and forth between me and CMF to ask for them and I will forward them

I am sure my partner of 6+ years would be grateful to know that I have "no understanding of Thai sensibilities regarding the situation' as would the people I work with and speak with daily. (Not only in English but in Thai as well.) I guess I will have to give up reading the papers and watching the news (not only in English but in Thai as well) since all this time and effort to learn about the country that I live in is obviously wasted

OGB is kinda funny though, he is much like Thaksin's "I quit politics" .. he just can't leave it alone I note that in your response to me above OGB that you again failed to respond to any of the issues

[ogb]

OGB is kinda funny though, he is much like Thaksin's "I quit politics" .. he just can't leave it alone I note that in your response to me above OGB that you again failed to respond to any of the issues

There are no issues - I don't care about Thaksin, other than he should be treated fairly and not singled out as the source of all evil in Thailand.

Blind Freddy knows there is a double standard in Thailand, but you don't (and cannot see past your blind hatred, unless of course you are one of those 'useful idiots' the Thai establishment relies upon

You have not yet demonstrated that you have read and understood the books I referred to

[orang37]

This is too funny, the title of the thread is "CM in Chaos" yet the only thing that seems to be in real chaos is the CM thread on TV, are civil disturbances contagious or is such behaviour simply a bi-product of too much pollution?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Chiang Mai,

We have assumed, from the sound of the starter's pistol, that the word "chaos" in the title of this thread refers to the chaotic thought and perceptions of Farangs (which includes my own internal numbskull version of a Farang).

Yeah, you do have a great point there : could be that, like Swine Flu, we are pricking up civil disturbances from each other

We'd really like to meet "Blind Freddy," and hear more about the double-standard. And, we'd like to see the Prime Ministers Khun JDInAsia and Khun ChiangMaiFun were exchanging until the guns came out and the border was closed. Was one of them Banharn ?

We were greatly relieved to hear from Khun Kevin that : "I wasn't winding UG up. I'm on his side." We'd be on UG's side, but we can't afford the flamingo.

We are still wondering "who's on first ?"

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 4, 2010 by orang37

[jdinasia]

Yes .. we agree -- Prosecuted. That is what you said at first. Then you CHANGED it to say since you would likely not get the convictions the way YOU want to see them, that it had to be amnesty for Thaksin. Quite disingenuous to make the offer* and then retract it like that. Everyone gets their day in court. The guilty pay/do time and the innocent (or those not proven guilty) walk.

Yes you ducked every other point brought up. What 'unelected institutions' (note the plural) are you discussing when you say that?

Quit hiding and say what you mean. There is no honesty in a post that ducks answering direct questions.

Yes you have threatened to not respond to me in the past .. because you were outgunned and you are doing so now. Am I concerned by this? No. You won't live up to what you say any more than Thaksin did when he 'quit politics'.

:-)

Point 1. Prosecuted --- and your change to then say amnesty

Point 2. "unelected institutions" (note the plural) that you used in addition to the military. Who are these unelected institutions and how have they interfered?

Point 3. Thaksin has returned to this thread 3 times now

Point 4. Your books --- my answer "Sae Daeng" (The difference being that I actually do read and know what I am talking about

[ogb]

Yes .. we agree -- Prosecuted. That is what you said at first. Then you CHANGED it to say since you would likely not get the convictions the way YOU want to see them, that it had to be amnesty for Thaksin. Quite disingenuous to make the offer* and then retract it like that. Everyone gets their day in court. The guilty pay/do time and the innocent (or those not proven guilty) walk.

Yes you ducked every other point brought up. What 'unelected institutions' (note the plural) are you discussing when you say that?

Quit hiding and say what you mean. There is no honesty in a post that ducks answering direct questions.

Yes you have threatened to not respond to me in the past .. because you were outgunned and you are doing so now. Am I concerned by this? No. You won't live up to what you say any more than Thaksin did when he 'quit politics'.

:-)

Point 1. Prosecuted --- and your change to then say amnesty

Point 2. "unelected institutions" (note the plural) that you used in addition to the military. Who are these unelected institutions and how have they interfered?

Point 3. Thaksin has returned to this thread 3 times now

Point 4. Your books --- my answer "Sae Daeng" (The difference being that I actually do read and know what I am talking about

Here are my original points:

My suggestions for a way forward are:

1. Every wrongdoer (including coup leaders) be prosecuted, or otherwise there should be an amnesty for all, including Thaksin.

2. A referendum for the people to choose which constitution they want (2007 or 1997 version)

3. The military and other unelected institutions to stay out of politics

(if they want to get involved, then submit themselves to elections)

Everything else will eventually take care of itself if the above happens (as good as it gets anyway), including the poor being treated better, because they will elect politicians to do that, and the people will discard them as and when appropriate (in their view, and through the electoral process)

The only really hard one is point 3 (the others should be easy).

You will note that point 1 always said OTHERWISE which means if all wrongdoers cannot be punished, then there should be an amnesty for all. You conceded that the coup leaders are not likely to be punished, and I agree (even though it is clear what they did was illegal, and therefore they are wrongdoers) Therefore amnesty for all as per my oriiginal point. Understand, comprehende, kow jy my?????

Point 3 (which you now call point 2): This is Thai Visa, and if you don't know their forum rules by now (after nearly 10,000 posts) then you are not only a 'useful idiot' but are a real .....) All I can suggest is you go read the books by McCargo, Ferrara & Handley and come back to me once you have understood them.

btw, Do you at least concede that the military should stay out of politics, or are you still a coup defender?

Your point 3: What can I say, I'm enjoying myself now that I know you have a closed mind, and I don't have to bother trying to make you see sense - Therefore, I'm happy to come back time and again, as this is quite fun

Your point 4: You still have not produced any real evidence regarding Seh Daeng - he's no friend of mine so if you really do have some evidence, I suggest you hand it over to the DSI (or maybe you can participate in an ASTV expose on him

Edited February 4, 2010 by ogb

[jdinasia]

Prosecuted does not equal convicted ... you changed the terms later Disingenuous to change the terms to meet YOUR definitions after stating that all wrong doers should be prosecuted. Remember I agree with that. I just don't think the outcomes from a purely legal standpoint are as cut and dried as you think they might be. A case could easily be made for a country in deadlock with a caretaker PM that had already dissolved parliament for a snap election when he was in total control would continue those antics further disabling the country. The courts would be the final arbiters of the actions taken by the leaders of the 2006 coup. Not me. Not you. When this was pointed out to you. You switched to calling for an amnesty for Thaksin.

I have read ONE of the books you mention. I have a copy of it here on my desk that I bought in Thailand. I quite enjoyed it. The train of thought from the author was that of 'stability over democracy'. Well worth reading.

Point 2 other institutions (note the plural) --- You are playing coy. BTW I have over 10k posts they did some kind of shuffle recently and some went away -- so what?

Point 3. As I predicted you ARE just like Thaksin in that you don't live up to your own statements

Point 4. You brought up the airports -- then claimed no knowledge of Sae Daeng at all regarding that time period. That shows you either have only your own (and Thaksin's agenda) in place or that you really have no idea of what happened at Government House (a legal gathering at the time -- since they had an injunction from the courts barring them from being pushed out/having to abandon the place) and at Suwannaphoom. The fact that just this week there was an article discussing the grenade attacks and you still claim ignorance is disturbing as well. Then again I am actually IN Thailand and I actually do care what happens here, not just now but in the future.

note to McGriffith (sorry -- I have been TRYING to avoid dragging up the past as you suggested

Edited February 4, 2010 by jdinasia

[ogb]

Prosecuted does not equal convicted ... you changed the terms later

I concede I meant convicted, and that would have been a better word, but in this context it makes little difference because I prefaced it by the term wrongdoer (not alleged wrongdoer) which means it related to only the guilty.

Surely you are not arguing that a military coup is not illegal (at the time of the event)???

[lannarebirth]

Interesting panel discussion/presentation on what has led to Thailand's political crisis and what might end it:

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...s-event-part-i/

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...-event-part-ii/

[jdinasia]

Prosecuted does not equal convicted ... you changed the terms later

I concede I meant convicted, and that would have been a better word, but in this context it makes little difference because I prefaced it by the term wrongdoer (not alleged wrongdoer) which means it related to only the guilty.

Surely you are not arguing that a military coup is not illegal (at the time of the event)???

Courts decide who is guilty and who is not. Not you and not me. Was it legal with your caveat 'at that time'? -- I don't know. Does that matter (the caveat) again I don't know. To that you can only say that Thaksin HAS been found guilty and has waved his right of appeal on the Rachada case. You can say that Thaksin has been ordered to court on the assets seizure case. You can say that the PAD leaders have answered charges on several cases. You can say that Thaksin is a fugitive from justice since he was found guilty. You can say that he has yet to answer to other charges since Thai law requires his presence in court. (I think there are currently about 20 outstanding corruption and other charges that he has yet to answer.)

Again -- courts decide. Not you. Not me.

[jdinasia]

Interesting panel discussion/presentation on what has led to Thailand's political crisis and what might end it:

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...s-event-part-i/

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...-event-part-ii/

I finished part one .. pretty interesting. Not surprising Jiles U was a gatecrasher. You'd think he could get real people to listen to him without having to crash someone else's but his extremist views get nowhere with anybody. He should have been in France in the early 1900's.

The second section was pretty good too! Far more balanced than anything I have seen in New Mandala in the past!

It should become required reading

Edited February 4, 2010 by jdinasia

[ChiangMaiFun]

Prosecuted does not equal convicted ... you changed the terms later

I concede I meant convicted, and that would have been a better word, but in this context it makes little difference because I prefaced it by the term wrongdoer (not alleged wrongdoer) which means it related to only the guilty.

Surely you are not arguing that a military coup is not illegal (at the time of the event)???

Courts decide who is guilty and who is not. Not you and not me. Was it legal with your caveat 'at that time'? -- I don't know. Does that matter (the caveat) again I don't know. To that you can only say that Thaksin HAS been found guilty and has waved his right of appeal on the Rachada case. You can say that Thaksin has been ordered to court on the assets seizure case. You can say that the PAD leaders have answered charges on several cases. You can say that Thaksin is a fugitive from justice since he was found guilty. You can say that he has yet to answer to other charges since Thai law requires his presence in court. (I think there are currently about 20 outstanding corruption and other charges that he has yet to answer.)

Again -- courts decide. Not you. Not me.

Courts? are you mad? what about the Courts is Nazi Germany? the Courts in South Africa? the Courts in Soviet times? you are so NAIVE and so... I'm holding my tongue (just) - you have too much faith in the Courts my friend - and too much faith in your own judgement - Courst? the legal system is tripe - and I worked for one of the Magic Circle firms for years!!!

I suppose such 'faith' in Courts could be quite appealing if it were not so naive..? are you a lawyer? lawyers come only slightly below:

1 estate agents

2 car dealers

3 stock brokers

4 night market dealers

5 police

6 politicians

and FINALLY lawyers

[Steve2UK]

This is too funny, the title of the thread is "CM in Chaos" yet the only thing that seems to be in real chaos is the CM thread on TV, are civil disturbances contagious or is such behaviour simply a bi-product of too much pollution?

For something like the last 100 posts or so, the only reference that stands out as having anything whatever to do with Chiang Mai is your nickname - and, judging by your member details, even you are in Phuket (no offence meant). Wading through all this stuff (and, amazingly, it seems there was previously a whole lot more of it that got deleted? ), I find myself wondering why on earth it's still allowed to run in this sub-forum....... off-topic post after repetitive post - all of which has been (and continues to be) ploughed and re-ploughed in News Clippings threads. No moderators out there willing to put this thing out of its misery?

And, yes, I'm well aware that it's open to anyone to ignore threads - but I'm also under the impression that there's supposed to be some kind of forum policy to keep posts reasonably on-topic?

[jdinasia]

Courts? are you mad? what about the Courts is Nazi Germany? the Courts in South Africa? the Courts in Soviet times? you are so NAIVE and so... I'm holding my tongue (just) - you have too much faith in the Courts my friend - and too much faith in your own judgement - Courst? the legal system is tripe - and I worked for one of the Magic Circle firms for years!!!

I suppose such 'faith' in Courts could be quite appealing if it were not so naive..? are you a lawyer? lawyers come only slightly below:

1 estate agents

2 car dealers

3 stock brokers

4 night market dealers

5 police

6 politicians

and FINALLY lawyers

Yes, I do have faith in the legal system in Thailand. Is it perfect? No.

Are you deliberately impugning judges and the courts here?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Courts? are you mad? what about the Courts is Nazi Germany? the Courts in South Africa? the Courts in Soviet times? you are so NAIVE and so... I'm holding my tongue (just) - you have too much faith in the Courts my friend - and too much faith in your own judgement - Courst? the legal system is tripe - and I worked for one of the Magic Circle firms for years!!!

I suppose such 'faith' in Courts could be quite appealing if it were not so naive..? are you a lawyer? lawyers come only slightly below:

1 estate agents

2 car dealers

3 stock brokers

4 night market dealers

5 police

6 politicians

and FINALLY lawyers

Yes, I do have faith in the legal system in Thailand. Is it perfect? No.

Are you deliberately impugning judges and the courts here?

are you serious???????? my friend you just lost your last thread of credibility... I rest my case

[chiang mai]

This is too funny, the title of the thread is "CM in Chaos" yet the only thing that seems to be in real chaos is the CM thread on TV, are civil disturbances contagious or is such behaviour simply a bi-product of too much pollution?

For something like the last 100 posts or so, the only reference that stands out as having anything whatever to do with Chiang Mai is your nickname - and, judging by your member details, even you are in Phuket (no offence meant). Wading through all this stuff (and, amazingly, it seems there was previously a whole lot more of it that got deleted? ), I find myself wondering why on earth it's still allowed to run in this sub-forum....... off-topic post after repetitive post - all of which has been (and continues to be) ploughed and re-ploughed in News Clippings threads. No moderators out there willing to put this thing out of its misery?

And, yes, I'm well aware that it's open to anyone to ignore threads - but I'm also under the impression that there's supposed to be some kind of forum policy to keep posts reasonably on-topic?

You may not have noticed but the CM forum in TV often operates pretty much in the same way as CM itself does on occasion, a law unto itself and governed by slightly different rules from the main body, a bit like the political environment at present.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Courts? are you mad? what about the Courts is Nazi Germany? the Courts in South Africa? the Courts in Soviet times? you are so NAIVE and so... I'm holding my tongue (just) - you have too much faith in the Courts my friend - and too much faith in your own judgement - Courst? the legal system is tripe - and I worked for one of the Magic Circle firms for years!!!

I suppose such 'faith' in Courts could be quite appealing if it were not so naive..? are you a lawyer? lawyers come only slightly below:

1 estate agents

2 car dealers

3 stock brokers

4 night market dealers

5 police

6 politicians

and FINALLY lawyers

Yes, I do have faith in the legal system in Thailand. Is it perfect? No.

Are you deliberately impugning judges and the courts here?

are you serious???????? my friend you just lost your last thread of credibility... I rest my case

and of course I believe that the system here is excellent and the most wonderful and fair system in the world -why do you ask? are YOU aganst it? who exactly are you?

[ogb]

Prosecuted does not equal convicted ... you changed the terms later

I concede I meant convicted, and that would have been a better word, but in this context it makes little difference because I prefaced it by the term wrongdoer (not alleged wrongdoer) which means it related to only the guilty.

Surely you are not arguing that a military coup is not illegal (at the time of the event)???

Courts decide who is guilty and who is not. Not you and not me. Was it legal with your caveat 'at that time'? -- I don't know. Does that matter (the caveat) again I don't know. To that you can only say that Thaksin HAS been found guilty and has waved his right of appeal on the Rachada case. You can say that Thaksin has been ordered to court on the assets seizure case. You can say that the PAD leaders have answered charges on several cases. You can say that Thaksin is a fugitive from justice since he was found guilty. You can say that he has yet to answer to other charges since Thai law requires his presence in court. (I think there are currently about 20 outstanding corruption and other charges that he has yet to answer.)

Again -- courts decide. Not you. Not me.

You just cannot let go of Thaksin can you? If you secretly want to be a red shirt, why not spend some tiime down at the Warawot Grand Palace?

I'm with CMF on the issue of whether the courts have been politicized, but we don't need a court to tell us that a military coup IS illegal - why else would one of the first things coup leaders do is write new rules to exonerate themselves - you should know that, or has the Thaksin hatred blinded you that much?

btw, Nice trick editing you previous post to me AFTER I had already responded - I'm not going to bother playing that game, but I will keep having fun pointing out what a fool you are for continuing to support military coups

[Ulysses G.]

You just cannot let go of Thaksin can you?

Whooo, whooo. The bogeyman cometh.

[jdinasia]

Prosecuted does not equal convicted ... you changed the terms later

I concede I meant convicted, and that would have been a better word, but in this context it makes little difference because I prefaced it by the term wrongdoer (not alleged wrongdoer) which means it related to only the guilty.

Surely you are not arguing that a military coup is not illegal (at the time of the event)???

Courts decide who is guilty and who is not. Not you and not me. Was it legal with your caveat 'at that time'? -- I don't know. Does that matter (the caveat) again I don't know. To that you can only say that Thaksin HAS been found guilty and has waved his right of appeal on the Rachada case. You can say that Thaksin has been ordered to court on the assets seizure case. You can say that the PAD leaders have answered charges on several cases. You can say that Thaksin is a fugitive from justice since he was found guilty. You can say that he has yet to answer to other charges since Thai law requires his presence in court. (I think there are currently about 20 outstanding corruption and other charges that he has yet to answer.)

Again -- courts decide. Not you. Not me.

You just cannot let go of Thaksin can you? If you secretly want to be a red shirt, why not spend some tiime down at the Warawot Grand Palace?

I'm with CMF on the issue of whether the courts have been politicized, but we don't need a court to tell us that a military coup IS illegal - why else would one of the first things coup leaders do is write new rules to exonerate themselves - you should know that, or has the Thaksin hatred blinded you that much?

btw, Nice trick editing you previous post to me AFTER I had already responded - I'm not going to bother playing that game, but I will keep having fun pointing out what a fool you are for continuing to support military coups

again your definitions just don't matter. The courts decide. Have courts made decisions in Thailand that I do not agree with? Sure. Take for example the assets concealment case. Had that case been decided differently none of this mess would have happened. I do however live with the consequences of a decision I do not agree with. I move on.

Regarding Thaksin --- You are the one asking for amnesty instead of letting the courts work it out. That is not a possible solution.

Regarding edited post -- I was writing while you were writing.

Regarding the personal attacks --- Yes I know you don't see the 2006 coup in the same way I do. The fact is it is in the past and it is time to move on. There was no elected government for about 7 months and there had been a failed election already something had to be done and something was done. Were there other options? Not really. Does this make me a fool? Perhaps.

[ChiangMaiFun]

again your definitions just don't matter. The courts decide. Have courts made decisions in Thailand that I do not agree with? Sure. Take for example the assets concealment case. Had that case been decided differently none of this mess would have happened. I do however live with the consequences of a decision I do not agree with. I move on.

Regarding Thaksin --- You are the one asking for amnesty instead of letting the courts work it out. That is not a possible solution.

Regarding edited post -- I was writing while you were writing.

Regarding the personal attacks --- Yes I know you don't see the 2006 coup in the same way I do. The fact is it is in the past and it is time to move on. There was no elected government for about 7 months and there had been a failed election already something had to be done and something was done. Were there other options? Not really. Does this make me a fool? Perhaps.

Naturally the Courts are perfect... never influenced by money nor politics - we all know that right?