Sin ( Groan ) Sod For Previously Married Girl

[Latindancer]

I've read a lot about sin sod and even started a thread about it but it was closed at my request ( sort of ) when it petered out. However I have a problem.....my fiancee ( 32 ) and I have reached an impasse....a stalemate, and I need some advice. I have seen a few different posts by people who stated that in the case of a girl who was married previously, sin sod is NEVER paid. The posters seemed definite about this. However though she was married before ( for 5 years......she says that her previous husband paid 100,000 ) my fiancee (and apparently her father ) are adamant that it is expected of me, and what is more, that it will be kept rather than returned the next day. I don't even currently HAVE 100,000 baht, and my fiancee knows this. Furthermore, she owes the government 100.000 baht for her higher education loan, which I will have to help pay off even if she moves to Australia with me (which is what I plan). Or at least it will be coming out of OUR commonly pooled money when we are married. The family live in Issan, near San Khom, Northeast of Udon Thani, and they seem like nice people....I met them. My fiancee herself is a lovely person, natural and unaffected, completely transparent and with no trace of temper at all. Very feminine. We have never in 10 months had ANY other kind of disagreement and genuinely love each other.

So it's upsetting to both of us that we are at a stalemate. She loves her parents and apparently I am expected to help out in future ( when needed, but probably not much ) even AFTER sin sod is paid.

I don't know which way to turn at the moment and feel terrible.

Constructive replies appreciated. Please.....no replies saying to run and that there are plenty more girls out there.......

Edited January 29, 2010 by Latindancer

[sharecropper]

If you haven't got it, you can't pay it, and even if you could, I wouldn't advise you to pay it. They are way off. Hand over 100k at the ceremony for face, on the basis they hand 90 or 80K straight back to you.

[craighj]

To be honest, not sure there is a hard and fast rule in this regard.

What I can say is that I married my Thai girl friend last year and she had been previously married, for about 5 or 6 years.

I was not expected to pay Sin Sod, though I was expected to give a gold chain to both her mother and father, which my girl actually paid for.

Craig

[Moonrakers]

My fiancee herself is a lovely person, natural and unaffected, completely transparent

"completely transparent". You got that right.

[rolypie]

another scam do not pay it there should have been one paid when she was first married this is just an excuse for easy money if the mrs insists then get rid!

[MyphuketLife]

Tell her to have fun being an old maid... This is not her first marraige and her parents should not be doing this, and they should not try to keep it in the first place. I would find another fish, if it starts out like this, well it will probably end like this.

People that get married should help their others families when needed (both sides). But this sounds like a horrible way to start, they don't sound like good people. S#$t she is 32 and divorced, the parents should be happy she is with some one that wants to marry....

[parryhandy]

No NO NO do not pay and do not allow them to even mention the subject again.

[mrtoad]

My fiancee herself is a lovely person, natural and unaffected, completely transparent

"completely transparent". You got that right.

[WeeGB]

I'd assume that getting the paperwork sorted for your wife (if you do get married), to go to Australia will be expensive - it has just increased massively for the UK. Point this out to your fiance and her parents, and see what they say. If they don't back down on this, or massively reduce the expected amount, tell them the weddings off. They won't want to lose face in the village, an important point to remember.

Getting the visas for Australia, will be very stressful, as would be starting out in a marriage where you are in substantial debt, ( 100,000 Baht sinsod and 100,000 Baht government loan), plus whatever expenses you incur with visas, translations, flights etc. Almost certainly a recipe for failure, particularly as I assume your girl has never been to Australia, how do you know she'll settle happily there?

I'd tend to agree with other posters, that a scam is involved here, I for one, certainly wouldn't hand over 100,000 Baht, expecting to get 80 or 90 % of it back.

I'd suggest a break from this girl, give yourself chance to think logically, without being under pressure.

Good luck.

[tonititan]

It sounds like neither of you is going to change your mind. If you don't want to pay the money, and she's adamant that you do, I think you're just going to have to decide if you would rather lose your money or your fiance. That's really a decision that only you can make. From the outside looking in, it kind of seems like geez, you've only known her for 10 months, how can you know what her real motivations are? But, you're the only person who really knows your relationship.

I personally would never pay money to a fiance, but I'm a girl so I don't think I have to worry about that too much.

[Latindancer]

S#$t she is 32 and divorced, the parents should be happy she is with some one that wants to marry....

I have said this.....also that I don't mind helping them financially from time to time, as well as telling her we can regularly continue sending the exact same amount ( 1,000 baht per month ) she currently sends them (though actually some months she cannot ). However it seems she or rather her father is adamant. Of course she says I don't understand this part of Thai culture.

I have repeated many times that I have seen many posts on this forum about guys not paying sin sod, or showing it at the wedding, and it being returned the next day. But no go.

I'm not prepared to leave her. She is a lovely person, and I genuinely love her. What I need is a DEFINITIVE answer.....because posters here have said that for a previously married girl it is NEVER paid.

Maybe I should just find an educated Thai person who speaks good English and ask him / her.......

[samuibeachcomber]

do not pay it.if you do and they say they will give some back,dont bank on it.you've already said your g/f owes 100,000 baht,but does she really?not a good start,these are alarm bells for you,and if you submit where will it end.Sin sod maybe if its here first marraige and you are her first man.

[needforspeed]

You know her 10 Month,

You dont know any person within 10 months, specialy if from another culture, language and country.

[hawthorne]

It is not custom to pay a second sin sod. If she or the family insist on it and you can not pay it...you are left with few alternatives. As you say, the relationship seems genuine.

Obviously saying no is not an option if it means losing the girl. I suggest extending the engagement. Give yourself more time to save the money. I would not even set a date. Only after the money is in your account, re-evaluate the relationship and if you are still sure this is the girl then set the date.

When in love the view is much different, on the outside people will be suspicious of this situation. I am.

[WeeGB]

If you're not prepared to leave her, and her father won't back down, then I guess you'll have to pay up.

I think though, that this would just be the start, once you back down on this, expect all kinds of requests for money in the future. Hope the family buffalo is in good health.

[samuibeachcomber]

It is not custom to pay a second sin sod. If she or the family insist on it and you can not pay it...you are left with few alternatives. As you say, the relationship seems genuine.

Obviously saying no is not an option if it means losing the girl. I suggest extending the engagement. Give yourself more time to save the money. I would not even set a date. Only after the money is in your account, re-evaluate the relationship and if you are still sure this is the girl then set the date.

When in love the view is much different, on the outside people will be suspicious of this situation. I am.

this is good advice.

[rixalex]

You know her 10 Month,

You dont know any person within 10 months, specialy if from another culture, language and country.

How true.

[rgs2001uk]

Tell her no wedding until the father dies.

The father sounds as stubborn as the buffalo you will be expected to support.

[Latindancer]

This is what I thought too.....to extend the engagement. It's my only option, really ( sigh ).

She really does owe 100,000 baht to the government for her higher education loan....I'm sure of it. And her fellow teachers are all above-the-board decent people. She takes her teaching role seriously, too.

My bullsh-it meter /detector was set to "high" when I came here ( still is ), and I've had 1.5 years of experience here, and 4 years experience in other Asian countries. And I'm a cynical guy. But she really is a kind, balanced and transparent person, so I guess it's a very long engagement then. I don't think her father will like it though, when I hand over the money with a scowl, saying "here's the money, you greedy, grasping git".

This is without doubt the most bitterly-debated topic in ThaiVisa.....more so than driving in Thailand !

[way2muchcoffee]

You have already been told the answer, definitively, in no uncertain terms.

Sin sod is paid once. Period. There is no second sin sod in Thai culture. That's the deal. It is impossible to think anything other than that her family is trying to scam you, AND SO IS SHE. They know the rules.

Edited January 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Latindancer]

You know her 10 Month,

You dont know any person within 10 months, specialy if from another culture, language and country.

True.....and having followed your thread, I'd say this is a very restrained understatement !

[samuibeachcomber]

You have already been told the answer, definitively, in no uncertain terms.

Sin sod is paid once. Period. There is no second sin sod in Thai culture. That's the deal. It is impossible then to think anything other than that her family is trying to scam you, AND SO IS SHE. They know the rules.

sounds like the daughter is under pressure from the father and that will always be the case"family first"

[t.s]

if i didn't have a 100 k handy, I would not even consider marriage, especially to someone carrying a debt load greater than that.

Are her credit cards as unaffected as she is?

[t.s]

knock her up, and explain in your culture the father of the bride pays for the wedding.it certainly put the demands of my ex's family to rest.

Edited January 29, 2010 by t.s

[Gonzo the Face]

Your original request seems to ask for a yes or no answer as to should you or should you not.....

However in reading through your posts, I think there is only one answer you will accept.

Good Luck to you either way.

[kennkate]

Just tell the family you are not in a position to do this. you are willing to support your wife to be, But you cannot support the whole family.

That is what I told my wife's Family. Yes I was willing to take care of my wife and her 2 Kids But that was were it stopped.

I have to say I did give them 15.000 Baht. UK wedding. So no expense of a big party in Thailand Note 15 Thousand Not 150 Thousand

If they know you can look after her then that should be enough.. Do not get into debt over this.

You will have to stand your ground over this they will keep asking that is for sure. Believe me they will back down if they Know you are not going to give in

The 100.000 debt she has is quite a lot. Good luck

[Archimedes]

One way to spin it would be to agree to pay the 100 K providing the parents pay for the wedding party.

Which in some cases is a cheaper alternative than paying 0 k in Sin Sod but having to foot the complete wedding party bill.

[Latindancer]

knock her up, and explain in your culture the father of the bride pays for the wedding.it certainly put the demands of my ex's family to rest.

Hahaha...brilliant !

She owes nothing on her credit cards are (as far as I know). She is very honest, but I will put it to her later.

Her father has a small herd of cows (6 or so), which he will sell one of from time to time. I just can't help feeling that this mentality extends to his daughters ( 5 of them, and only 2 sons).

The wedding will be (if it happens) a small one here in Bangkok with only a few of her friends from here....not a whole village thing up there.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Latindancer

[Nio]

if i didn't have a 100 k handy, I would not even consider marriage, especially to someone carrying a debt load greater than that.

Are her credit cards as unaffected as she is?

I have to agree with T.S on this one.

If you don't even have $3,000 or 100,000 baht why in the world would you even be thinking marriage?

I have many Thai guys working for me.

What I see them do with their Thai GF is they both work and set aside money together in a Sin Sod pool so when they do have enough they can get married.

They do it together

What kind of previously married woman would make it mandatory to ask you for money when she knows you don't have any?

It is quite apparent the money is more important than you

The big issue facing you? It will never, never, ever change no matter how many times you keep telling yourself it is you

Pay the sinsod, she divorces you and finds someone to pay it again

There was a reason her first marriage did not work out

Sorry but I am not buying into the story you never had any problems

These types are girls are always pushing money, money, money because she knows she has you by the balls

With the millions of never been married single girls that would be in love with you, happy with you and willing to contribute their own hard earned cash to your sin sod pot, you have to pick this one

There are many red flags and trouble straight ahead

Edited January 29, 2010 by Nio

[rgs2001uk]

Tell both the girl and her father you have had a better offer.

Details as follows,

23 years old, never married, university educated, currently working, speaks perfect English, great sense of humuor, good natured, has a personality (hard to find in some), owns her own house, has her own car (not sure on details regards finance, but suspect paid in full), willing to relocate overseas, not in any rush to have children, no, repeat no sin-sot required, no details on student loan (never asked).

pm for details if interested.