Need A Generator For The Wife's Fish Farm:

[mellow1]

My wife's first recirculating system is done, apart from a few little things. She needs a generator or two, to run 2 pumps, an air blower, and lights in case of a power failure. We have a 2.5 KW one, but it ain't got the power needed. It will only run one water pump. We live in Issan, out of the ordinary stuff is hard to find. We want to be able to get an idea on prices, and of what's available. We had the electric installed for the system, including a breaker to cut off electric from the main when switching over to the generators. The electrician is coming by, to calculate the size needed to run this equipment. Links to web sites, or phone numbers to legitimate dealers appreciated, as well as advise.

[Crossy]

Forum sponsor Genset is worth a PM, start here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Generators-T...nd-t309747.html

[Gary A]

Since you are involved in the farming business, you may already have an iron buffalo. That is a diesel powered two wheel tractor. If so, you may have the most expensive part already. Most farm supple store have or can get generators for those Kubota tractors.

[mellow1]

Thanks Crossy, good info. You two Gary A, but we don't use an iron buffalo around here.

[ignis]

Maybe worth thinking about...

Have been looking to install Solar System to run all the pumps.. the roof over the fish pond/tanks is 8m x 3.5m, the total outlay would pay for itself within 4 years.

[jaapfries]

Maybe worth thinking about...

Have been looking to install Solar System to run all the pumps.. the roof over the fish pond/tanks is 8m x 3.5m, the total outlay would pay for itself within 4 years.

PLEASE TELL ME MORE: A PV (PHOVOLTAIC) SYSTEM WITH AN ROI OF ABOUT 4 YEARS ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

LOVE TO HEAR THIS ?

PLEASE PM ME, THANKS

JGK/PATTAYA

[ignis]

Maybe worth thinking about...

Have been looking to install Solar System to run all the pumps.. the roof over the fish pond/tanks is 8m x 3.5m, the total outlay would pay for itself within 4 years.

PLEASE TELL ME MORE: A PV (PHOVOLTAIC) SYSTEM WITH AN ROI OF ABOUT 4 YEARS ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

LOVE TO HEAR THIS ?

PLEASE PM ME, THANKS

JGK/PATTAYA

PM Sent

[ozzydom]

My thinking is that it would be a massive outlay to set up a charge and storeage solar system capable of about 5kwh x 24 hour usage.

[Gary A]

My thinking is that it would be a massive outlay to set up a charge and storeage solar system capable of about 5kwh x 24 hour usage.

We have some land that has no electricity supply. I spent a LOT of time looking at solar systems and the prices are ridiculous. At the current electric company rates, it was a fifteen year payback IF you have the option to get power from the grid. I'm sure the system and especially the batteries would NOT last fifteen years to start with.

Solar sounds great but makes absolutely no economic sense yet. Maybe some day.

[mellow1]

My wife needs about 24 AMPs to run this set up and another 20 AMP's to run the water pumps on another set up. That's according to a friend of mine whose good at this sort of calculation. Still waiting for the electrician to show, so I can get his input. But learning what I can in the meantime.

[sokmeister]

Mellow,

Please google Changfa Generators or Listeroid Genset. Both with ST Heads. Listeroid is the way to go. Changa brand or type are most likely prevailent in Asia. They are the type that powers the iron buffalos. They make great motive power for gensets.

Sok

[finner]

24a x 220v = 5.3 KVA. I'd recommend maybe a 7.5 KVA gasoline generator since that seems to be a common size. This works out to about 10 Hp.

GaryA, do the iron buffaloes have this much power? And not to get too technical here, but to get 50 Hz you'd have to run the buffalo engine about 500rpm with a 3:1 pulley for your 4 pole generator to run at 1450rpm. Doesn't have to be exact, a little slow and your pump runs a little slow but your lights are OK. Is 500 rpm do-able for an extended period?

Have to check that other link, maybe all these questions have already been answered.

finner

[finner]

Nope, just checked out that very informative generator link but nothing about buffalos. Can anyone answer my 2 questions? As GaryA says it would probably save a bit of dough if it works.

By the way, Mellow 1, you might want to check out the JSSR auction website. They auction off about 30 generators every month.

finner

Edited February 4, 2010 by finner

[Gary A]

24a x 220v = 5.3 KVA. I'd recommend maybe a 7.5 KVA gasoline generator since that seems to be a common size. This works out to about 10 Hp.

GaryA, do the iron buffaloes have this much power? And not to get too technical here, but to get 50 Hz you'd have to run the buffalo engine about 500rpm with a 3:1 pulley for your 4 pole generator to run at 1450rpm. Doesn't have to be exact, a little slow and your pump runs a little slow but your lights are OK. Is 500 rpm do-able for an extended period?

Have to check that other link, maybe all these questions have already been answered.

finner

Yanmar and Kubota both make the single cylinder diesels. Both brands are near bullet proof and will run forever. Both brands offer 8 to 14 HP and are very common. The newest generation is supposed to be more fuel efficient. We have a Kubota 11 HP and it gets used almost every day. It uses very little diesel.

The Chinese make knockoffs that look nearly identical and are much cheaper. The local farmers say they are not nearly as good as Yanmar and Kubota and they don't like them.

They do make lower and higher HP single cylinder engines but have never seen any locally. The 14 HP engines are normally the choice for the Issan trucks. the 10 HP units are normally average size for the two wheel tractors. Electric starters are available but most use the simple hand crank. They actually start quite easily.

I'd guess that 95 percent of the irrigation water at least in this area is pumped using these iron buffaloes. I can only guess at the RPM used. I'd guess we run ours at about 1,500 RPM pumping water. I think top speed is about 2,200 RPM. My brother in law runs his 9 HP at just a high idle. His is many years old and has never given him any problems. As I have said, they seem bullet proof no matter how you use and abuse them.

[finner]

Sounds like a viable option then. If you can run it at 1400-1500 rpm, you could use direct drive if that's possible, for a 4 pole generator, and avoid the losses involved in a belt driven system. For a 2 pole generator you'd have to use a 1:2 pulley. You can tell if you have a 2 pole or 4 pole by looking at the nameplate rated speed, ~3000 rpm for a 2 pole, ~1500 for a 4 pole. The generator would have to have the KVA rating that you require for the load and don't plug anything in till the buffalo is up to speed. Buy a voltmeter and check the voltage. Do buffalos have tachometers? If not, just run it up till it's really loud and check for 220v.

Bonuses are that buffalos run on diesel, can be used for many farm operations, you can run belt driven water pumps, and you can use it to drive to church on Sunday

Edited February 4, 2010 by finner

[Gary A]

Quite often I see whole families going to town. They put a roof over the trailer and everyone piles in. I often see them going down the road at about 40 KPH.

No tachometers that I have seen. All the generators for these units have a voltmeter. They just adjust the speed until it shows 240 volts.

ADDED - Thinking about the families having their day off makes me smile. Mom, Pop and all the kids whooping, yelling, smiling and waving to everyone. It's just a simple thing but they have a great time just going to the local market. Most of us Westerners have surely lost the plot.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Gary A

[ozzydom]

24a x 220v = 5.3 KVA. I'd recommend maybe a 7.5 KVA gasoline generator since that seems to be a common size. This works out to about 10 Hp.

GaryA, do the iron buffaloes have this much power? And not to get too technical here, but to get 50 Hz you'd have to run the buffalo engine about 500rpm with a 3:1 pulley for your 4 pole generator to run at 1450rpm. Doesn't have to be exact, a little slow and your pump runs a little slow but your lights are OK. Is 500 rpm do-able for an extended period?

Have to check that other link, maybe all these questions have already been answered.

finner

Mellow states that he needs 24 +20 amps =44amp total ,a different kettle of fish, thats about 10kva which will need about 15-20 hp diesel.

[Crossy]

You'll also need to be very careful sizing your genset as it's got a significant motor load (pumps). The usual add it all up and add 10% won't cut the mustard.

Motors take a significantly larger current on start (several times the run current), if you have a lot of small motors you'll likely need to sequence the starting (manually would work) to avoid stalling the generator.

Task A: List all the equipment expected to be used along with its power rating (Amps or Watts or VA whatever is on the rating plate) and list it here

[finner]

Mellow states that he needs 24 +20 amps =44amp total ,a different kettle of fish, thats about 10kva which will need about 15-20 hp diesel.

I was assuming the loads were at 2 different locations. If not, they would have to be added together but then you're talking about a much larger expense. Buffalo won't cut it (max 14 Hp as per GaryA) and genset is now 10-12KVA. Big unit. Big bucks.

You'll also need to be very careful sizing your genset as it's got a significant motor load (pumps)

Right on, Crossy, can't be plugging in everything all at once or you'll be smelling burnt varnish. Also have to keep cord length as short as possible. If it was my operation, (and if I had a buffalo) I'd consider using a belt driven water pump or 2 and use a much smaller genset for the lighting. But I don't know the actual setup requirements. Has anyone ever run more than one pump at the same time from a buffalo?

Just re-reading the original post. Mellow1 it seems you have a large TOTAL load but what would the maximum load at one time? If you can spread them out you'll save a lot of money.

finner

Edited February 5, 2010 by finner

[AMVET98]

On the street at band Mo the one going west on the north side of Old Siam back a block or two from Old Siam is a bunch of shops selling generators, lawn mowers and such stuff. I bought a gas generator with an 8KW italian made generator for about 35,000 baht.

but now days you could run it on HHO (google hho) and run it for free.