Discrimination

[Donnyboy]

It's a losing battle. The best weapon you have is your money. Take it elsewhere. If every whitey did that they, and other establishments and organisations, just might change their racist policies.

cant see that happening

[KevinHunt]

It's a losing battle. The best weapon you have is your money. Take it elsewhere. If every whitey did that they, and other establishments and organisations, just might change their racist policies.

   Not in this case, I think. Out of the couple of hundred people that go to Fabrique on any one night, maybe 5 or 6 are Farangs. If they have had a problem with some Farangs (which was what I heard) , then losing one or two won't be of any concern to the owner. They haven't banned Farangs, they are just trying to keep the Riff Raff out. Fair dos. 

    Maybe you should be blaming those few that spoiled it for the rest. Some Farangs have no understanding of Thai culture, and think all Thai ladys are on the game. Look at some of the Farangs that go to Spiceys or Hotshots or Bubbles. I don't think the owners of Fabrique want that sort, and if I had a decent night club in Chiang Mai, neither would I. 

   I don't think there's a need to get all paranoid about it. See it as it is, someone trying to solve a problem. On the whole Farangs get treated very well in Thailand, and get a lot more respect and consideration than they would in their own countries.

[Donnyboy]

Maybe you should be blaming those few that spoiled it for the rest.

ok, hands up you buggers that spoilt it for the rest of us

[Donnyboy]

I don't think there's a need to get all paranoid about it. See it as it is, someone trying to solve a problem. On the whole Farangs get treated very well in Thailand, and get a lot more respect and consideration than they would in their own countries.

so true, how often do you get called "hann-some" back in yr own country?

[BigWheelMan]

You mean fabrique? we have been moaning about it for years - I never go and hate the place - the owner (thats what he said) replied to a similar thread but never came back to defend his clubs actions - it's full of young Thais around tables drinking 100 pipers amongst 10 of them - it's rubbish - stay away and don't pay!!! as soon as they do it with me I turn and walk

I say <deleted>!!!!!!!

(Farang Unfriendly)

We should make a list and post it - all the <deleted> places in Chiang mai - in fact I'll start the list in another thread

Brilliant post!

Yesterday I visited the Computer Plaza wanting to purchase a USB hub for my computer.

Found one I liked in one of the shops, 85 baht.

I thought before I buy it I'll look in the shop opposite to see how much they are selling for in there. Saw the same model hanging on a rack, but it was not priced. I took it over to a young lady member of staff who was sitting at a table. How much? I asked her in Thai. She pointed at a factory code number printed on the packet 298/149. She replied, 149 baht. I said, no, that's a factory part number not the price. Then I told her that the shop opposite is selling them 85 baht. With that, the girl just looked at me with a stupid grim on her face, turned and looked at a male member of staff then they both started giggling like couple of little school kids. So I went back to the original shop and purchased the same USB hub for 85 baht.

I have had similar experiences in shops over the years in Chiang Mai and it can make you understandably feeling paranoid.

It does leave a soar taste in the mouth when they treat you like you have just arrived off the banana boat. I think things have improved in the last few years, many Thai business owners have realised that Farangs are not as naïve and as gullible as they used to be. But old habits die hard, so it`s a case of we need to be more on the ball than the Thais.

The way I seek revenge on these morons is that if they do this to me once, than that's it, I never venture into that establishment again and they lose out because I spend my money elsewhere, plus I tell my mates, so they lose several customers. In other words, once bitten, walk out, don`t go again and hit them where it hurts, in the till.

Edited February 6, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[zzdocxx]

If a group of you go in just use the vouchers to get a bottle of whisky and all the mixers, so you are essentially paying nothing for entry. Then make sure you leave some of the whisky at the club when you decide to leave and get a bottle card from them. Next time you go just show them the bottle card and your group wont have to pay the 300 baht to enter. Get another bottle inside and leave some more, get another bottle card, rinse and repeat as many times as you want.

Interesting, that seems to make some sense if that is actually how it works.

[KevinHunt]

Yesterday I visited the Computer Plaza wanting to purchase a USB hub for my computer.

Found one I liked in one of the shops, 85 baht.

Just out of curiosity, if you find one you liked for 85 baht why did you look elsewhere?

[sabaijai]

It's a losing battle. The best weapon you have is your money. Take it elsewhere. If every whitey did that they, and other establishments and organisations, just might change their racist policies.

No they won't, because the policy will have accomplished what it was intended to

[BigWheelMan]

It's a losing battle. The best weapon you have is your money. Take it elsewhere. If every whitey did that they, and other establishments and organisations, just might change their racist policies.

No they won't, because the policy will have accomplished what it was intended to

Just a little story;

When I was 15 years old back in 1857, I worked as a shop assistant for a hardware and fancy goods store in Upton Park East London.

I can remember saying to my boss in front of the customers; why is there so many blacks in here? Don`t we ever get any white customers?

The boss pulled me aside and said; don`t say things like that in front of them, ''they are our best customers and without them we would probably go out of business'' although my boss was one of the biggest racists and bigots I had ever known.

Meaning, money speaks all languages, crosses all barriers, cultures and indifferences.

On the other hand, we white honkies here in Thailand are a very small minority and it probably wouldn't effect the incomes of these stores very much if we all buggered off home and never shopped here again.

There are still some Thai business owners who have an attitude that Farangs are going to pay more, take it or leave it.

But for areas where Farangs make up a high proportion of customers, like the Rim Ping supermarkets, massage parlours in the town etc, the staff are much more savvy and courteous because they need us. In other words, they don't really like us but tolerate us when it suits them, just like my boss with the blacks in the old days.

That's the downside to being a foreigner in a non-EEC country, it`s a wonderful lifestyle but we will always be outsiders however much we try to fit in.

3.30am, sunday morning, goodnight all.

Edited February 6, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[KevinHunt]

In other words, they don't really like us but tolerate us when it suits them, just like my boss with the blacks in the old days.

That's the downside to being a foreigner in a non-EEC country, it`s a wonderful lifestyle but we will always be outsiders however much we try to fit in.

3.30am, sunday morning, goodnight all.

Very insightful. Thanks for that. Well done. 

Edited February 6, 2010 by KevinHunt

[justafarang]

The other day I went to the Boribun market on Chotana road. I have bought food at this market nearly everyday for the past 2 years as it is near where I live in Chiang Mai. Many if not all of the people selling food are familiar with me and are polite to me and I do my best to be polite to them in spite of the language barrier. After 2 years of buying food here I felt I was a welcome and appreciated customer.

The other day, the manager of the market, his family owns the land, building, etc. was in the market doing his 'managing' when I was doing my shopping and here's what transpired. BTW - I've known the manager for the past 2 years as well.

I went to the market and I only wanted some vegetable soup and rice. When I saw what I wanted, I pointed to it and the lady behind the counter put the food in a bag and she began to say the price, then the manager came over and said, "New policy for farang, you pay more." And he inflated the cost. I didn't say anything, I just gave them the money and went home.

This is the second time the manager had charged me more when he purposely got involved in the pricing process. The first time he inflated the price he didn't say anything, he just inflated the price. However, I knew the price of what I was buying and I just thought he made an error and I didn't want to be confrontational over a few baht. Now I realize he was just charging me more because I'm a farang.

This really made me feel bad as I have bought food at that market for nearly 2 years and I thought I was a welcome customer and not just "another farang" to be ripped-off.

[powderpuff]

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who refer to themselves and others as 'a guest in their country'. I've never been called a guest by a Thai, it seems to be some strange farang concept which falls just short of kow towing.

That's quite funny. Out of your earshot they call you "falang" which means foreigner. Not alleging it's derogatory just colloquial.

I guess they consider you a visitor - you are visiting their country. You are not Khon Thai & never will be.

Edited February 6, 2010 by powderpuff

[Ulysses G.]

I went to the market and I only wanted some vegetable soup and rice. When I saw what I wanted, I pointed to it and the lady behind the counter put the food in a bag and she began to say the price, then the manager came over and said, "New policy for farang, you pay more." And he inflated the cost. I didn't say anything, I just gave them the money and went home.

Come on. That does not sound like any Thai I've ever met. They might cheat you, but they are not going to announce it. I just don't buy this story.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[BlackArtemis]

Do you feel this is a recent trend? I never really experienced any of these things in the years I spent in CM. But I have been out of the country for a year. When I visit this summer I am wondering just how many of these situations I will find myself in.

[Ulysses G.]

It certainly has not been my experience. If you speak a little Thai they mostly go out of their way to pay farangs attention and make us feel comfortable. If I had any complaints it would be more along the crazy driving and friendly, but inept service, lines. I miss going in a shop or restaurant and having someone understand my needs and know how to help me find what I need. The thing is that I don't miss much of anything else.

[Donnyboy]

BigWheelMan is wise as well as old

[KevinHunt]

BigWheelMan is wise as well as old

Did you notice he typed it so fast he missed a word out. It should have read...

"just like my boss with the All blacks in the old days."

[Thakkar]

BigWheelMan is wise as well as old

I don't doubt that he's old.

[KevinHunt]

BigWheelMan is wise as well as old

I don't doubt that he's old.

"When I was 15 years old back in 1857".......

168 y.o. but still full of fun and enjoying life. A good example to us all. 

Edited February 7, 2010 by KevinHunt

[femi fan]

But for areas where Farangs make up a high proportion of customers, like the Rim Ping supermarkets, massage parlours in the town etc, the staff are much more savvy and courteous because they need us. In other words, they don't really like us but tolerate us when it suits them, just like my boss with the blacks in the old days.

That's the downside to being a foreigner in a non-EEC country, it`s a wonderful lifestyle but we will always be outsiders however much we try to fit in.

They don't really like us? That is a surprising thing to read. Thais do like farang very much, and many accept them rather than tolerate them. Your boss and the blacks was ages ago, the world and its peoples' attitudes have moved on. There really cannot be too many countries in the world where the local people are so accepting of foreigners more than in thailand.

To be accepted by them is your choice, it's not fixed by their attitude.

As for discrimination, arguably all consumers are subject to it in monetary terms. Business is discriminatory. As for getting into night clubs, a very difficult proposition back in the town of brighton in england, and no doubt most of the country, nice to be able to get in over here easily, then get some drinks too for the price. Getting in to a club in brighton involves massive queues then as you get to the door the doorman commits discrimination frequently by barring someone because they don't look right.

It's easy to see faults in other places, but often when it comes to a direct comparison between thailand and england, for me anyway thailand nearly always wins out.

There are plenty of farang friendly places all over chiang mai. Masses of them.

Edited February 7, 2010 by femi fan

[anonymouse]

But for areas where Farangs make up a high proportion of customers, like the Rim Ping supermarkets, massage parlours in the town etc, the staff are much more savvy and courteous because they need us. In other words, they don't really like us but tolerate us when it suits them, just like my boss with the blacks in the old days.

That's the downside to being a foreigner in a non-EEC country, it`s a wonderful lifestyle but we will always be outsiders however much we try to fit in.

They don't really like us? That is a surprising thing to read. Thais do like farang very much, and many accept them rather than tolerate them. Your boss and the blacks was ages ago, the world and its peoples' attitudes have moved on. There really cannot be too many countries in the world where the local people are so accepting of foreigners more than in thailand.

To be accepted by them is your choice, it's not fixed by their attitude.

As for discrimination, arguably all consumers are subject to it in monetary terms. Business is discriminatory. As for getting into night clubs, a very difficult proposition back in the town of brighton in england, and no doubt most of the country, nice to be able to get in over here easily, then get some drinks too for the price. Getting in to a club in brighton involves massive queues then as you get to the door the doorman commits discrimination frequently by barring someone because they don't look right.

It's easy to see faults in other places, but often when it comes to a direct comparison between thailand and england, for me anyway thailand nearly always wins out.

There are plenty of farang friendly places all over chiang mai. Masses of them.

Exactly

This thread is going nowhere, this is the depths of discrimination in Chiang Mai so far;

We have two places that westerners can't get into unless they pay a cover charge.

Some half baked story about the manager of a market overcharging farang

and some tight wad farang finding that 85 baht is a bit much to pay for a usb hub, goes to another store is giggled at by the staff, probably because he is such a hansum man or maybe because his zip was undone

Anymore insights?

[sabaijai]

The other day I went to the Boribun market on Chotana road. I have bought food at this market nearly everyday for the past 2 years as it is near where I live in Chiang Mai. Many if not all of the people selling food are familiar with me and are polite to me and I do my best to be polite to them in spite of the language barrier. After 2 years of buying food here I felt I was a welcome and appreciated customer.

The other day, the manager of the market, his family owns the land, building, etc. was in the market doing his 'managing' when I was doing my shopping and here's what transpired. BTW - I've known the manager for the past 2 years as well.

I went to the market and I only wanted some vegetable soup and rice. When I saw what I wanted, I pointed to it and the lady behind the counter put the food in a bag and she began to say the price, then the manager came over and said, "New policy for farang, you pay more." And he inflated the cost. I didn't say anything, I just gave them the money and went home.

This is the second time the manager had charged me more when he purposely got involved in the pricing process. The first time he inflated the price he didn't say anything, he just inflated the price. However, I knew the price of what I was buying and I just thought he made an error and I didn't want to be confrontational over a few baht. Now I realize he was just charging me more because I'm a farang.

This really made me feel bad as I have bought food at that market for nearly 2 years and I thought I was a welcome customer and not just "another farang" to be ripped-off.

Right perfect first post

[Ulysses G.]

But for areas where Farangs make up a high proportion of customers, like the Rim Ping supermarkets, massage parlours in the town etc, the staff are much more savvy and courteous because they need us. In other words, they don't really like us but tolerate us when it suits them, just like my boss with the blacks in the old days.

That's the downside to being a foreigner in a non-EEC country, it`s a wonderful lifestyle but we will always be outsiders however much we try to fit in.

They don't really like us? That is a surprising thing to read. Thais do like farang very much, and many accept them rather than tolerate them. Your boss and the blacks was ages ago, the world and its peoples' attitudes have moved on. There really cannot be too many countries in the world where the local people are so accepting of foreigners more than in thailand.

To be accepted by them is your choice, it's not fixed by their attitude.

As for discrimination, arguably all consumers are subject to it in monetary terms. Business is discriminatory. As for getting into night clubs, a very difficult proposition back in the town of brighton in england, and no doubt most of the country, nice to be able to get in over here easily, then get some drinks too for the price. Getting in to a club in brighton involves massive queues then as you get to the door the doorman commits discrimination frequently by barring someone because they don't look right.

It's easy to see faults in other places, but often when it comes to a direct comparison between thailand and england, for me anyway thailand nearly always wins out.

There are plenty of farang friendly places all over chiang mai. Masses of them.

Exactly

This thread is going nowhere, this is the depths of discrimination in Chiang Mai so far;

We have two places that westerners can't get into unless they pay a cover charge.

Some half baked story about the manager of a market overcharging farang

and some tight wad farang finding that 85 baht is a bit much to pay for a usb hub, goes to another store is giggled at by the staff, probably because he is such a hansum man or maybe because his zip was undone

Anymore insights?

I admire anonymouse for his endless patience and sensible posts, but it is nice to see that even he has a breaking point.

[dannynomad]

If you're a whiskey drinker, then you don't have to pay any cover charge at Fabrique!

Just buy a bottle at the 7-11 and take it to the club. You will have to pay a 100 baht corkage charge (same as Thais) but will NOT have to pay the 300 baht cover charge. Done it a couple of times and it always works.

[KevinHunt]

If you're a whiskey drinker, then you don't have to pay any cover charge at Fabrique!

Just buy a bottle at the 7-11 and take it to the club. You will have to pay a 100 baht corkage charge (same as Thais) but will NOT have to pay the 300 baht cover charge. Done it a couple of times and it always works.

Well done, Danny no mad. It just goes to show what staying cool can do. Getting mad with them only makes matters worse, but no mad, no problem.

[barky]

It's a losing battle. The best weapon you have is your money. Take it elsewhere. If every whitey did that they, and other establishments and organisations, just might change their racist policies.

No they won't, because the policy will have accomplished what it was intended to

Sabaijai, unfortunately, in many cases, I believe you are quite right. But, hey I don't lose sleep over it. I'm happy to pay even just a little bit more to be treated in a non-racist and courteous, respectful manner.

[witold]

Do you feel this is a recent trend? I never really experienced any of these things in the years I spent in CM. But I have been out of the country for a year. When I visit this summer I am wondering just how many of these situations I will find myself in.

After 2 month motorcycle ride around Thailand - covering about 15k km and many different cities - my impression is that this is becoming increasingly prevalent in touristy areas. Ask yourself - would a tourist want to go here - if you answer yes, you will either overpay directly or indirectly. And sometimes they overcharge so much you will pay more than you would in a western country. Two examples are the 2 most famous Thai Boxing venues in Bangkok - both charge foreigners about 7-8x the Thai price for what is a mediocre card that would not fetch nearly that much money in USA.