Uk Visitor Visa Refused Please Help

[iian23]

I have a thai girlfriend we have lived together in Samui for 5 years. I work in uk but go to Samui every month for between 1 and 2 weeks. My girlfriend has worked in a pharmacy for 4 years and 1 year ago I bought a pharmacy which she now runs. She also owns a plot of land on khon kaen on which her grandmother lives in a modest house. Not sure of the value of the land but it would be 1 - 2 million baht. She wants to visit UK for 10 to 12 days to visit my family and to go shopping.

I applied for a visa which was refused for lack of information which was my fault so we applied again with all the correct documentation. The second application was also refused for the following reasons:-

1. - insufficient proof to show we are in a genuine relationship - I sent a letter from our landlord stating we have lived together for 5 years, a letter from a british ex police officer who now owns a bar saying he has known us for 5 years, copies of my entry and exit stamps and several photohraphs. what more can I do?

2. - You are a single person of working age and renting a pharmacy. It is not clear why you are travelling in November, when the high season is starting in Thailand or why, given you claim to have known the applicant for 5 years you have not applied to travel before. You have little in the way of assets. ties or property which might encourage your presence in your country. I am not satisfied under these circumstances that you are socially and economically well settled in your country. Accordingly I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the united kingdom. -

I don't know what high season he is talking about in November but I'm sure all the small business holders on this forum will agree November is deadly never mind high seaon, which is why we wanted to travel in November before the real high season started. My girlfriend had the same job for 4 over four years, now runs her own business, owns a small plot of land, a bank account with around 250000 baht, at the age of 28 how more settle can she be? The reason we have never applied before was because her job would not let her have more than 5 days at a time off work, which was one of the reasons we started our own pharmacy.

I am fuming to say the least.

Any advice on what I can do next would be gratefully received.

[Briggsy]

Marry her and apply for a settlement visa.

[tripplejjj]

Hey,

I assumed that she was the only one present with the interviewer. If this was the case, then it may have been a misunderstanding caused by her inability to effectively communicate her case to the interviewer. He may have asked her questions that she doesn't understand, therefore, unable to answer the questions. I think she has to set the interviewer straight by using the same logic you used below with paperwork trail to go with it. Lastly, assume that each subsequent interview is a brand new one and she has to present all the supporting documents as if it was her first interview. You might rehearse with her before the interview by asking her all kinds of questions to help her answer the questions correctly.

I don't know what high season he is talking about in November but I'm sure all the small business holders on this forum will agree November is deadly never mind high seaon, which is why we wanted to travel in November before the real high season started. My girlfriend had the same job for 4 over four years, now runs her own business, owns a small plot of land, a bank account with around 250000 baht, at the age of 28 how more settle can she be? The reason we have never applied before was because her job would not let her have more than 5 days at a time off work, which was one of the reasons we started our own pharmacy.

[7by7]

Marry her and apply for a settlement visa.

Only do this if the two of you want to marry and live permanently together in the UK!

Iian, I know that you seem to have quoted directly from the refusal notice, but it would help if you could post the notice in it's entirety; deleting any names and other identifying info, of course.

Triplejjj, it is very rare for a UK visit applicant to be interviewed; although you make a valid point if she were.

[richardt1808]

hi,

Sorry to say it mate, but you need to realise that Immigration get hundreds of these applications every month and many of them are nothing more than desperate attempts by people willing to try (and say) anything to get out of here and start a new life in the land of milk and honey. Looking at your motivation for the visa as you have explained it, I think that any immigration department would be loathe to grant the application.

Has your gf made any previous overseas trips ?

If she has several pages showing a history of travel (not necessarily to UK) then it would at least show a trend in terms of travel and return to Thailand. If there is no history of travel and she has been 'under the radar' until now, unfortunate as it may be, she is not easily going to get a visa to anywhere in Europe. Even Thai teens from poor families get visas to the UK, but they start small. A trip here to Hong Kong or KL, another one to Singapore - all cheap little visits, but they begin to establish a pattern which shows 'I take regular trips all the time and see, yes I go back to my job. If it is a job with a company with a large number of staff, that scores bigger points than a mom-and-pop place or a company in which the person is the sole employee.

The same goes for your relationship: You have had a series of visits for a week or two at a time and even though you may have been doing this for a number of years, does it prove a relationship ? I think not. If you had been living together constantly for even 6-12 months then that would be a something which is a lot more solid than a letter from some person, who is of no real importance, trying to back up a story which is in itself, is really very weak.

[Soutpeel]

Think you have answered your own question with the info you have gave

1. You have stated you have lived together for 5 years on Samui, in my interpretation of your circumstances you havent really lived together, you are a visitor for 1 to 2 weeks a month to your GF in Thailand

2. You live and work in the UK

not having a go...but trying to look at this from their point of view and in their opinion there would be a risk of outstaying a visa and trying to live in the UK based on the circumstances.

[iian23]

Thanks for the replies.

Firstly we have no intention of permanently living in the UK. In a few years I will be in a position to move to Thailand permanently at which time we will probably marry, I don't want to get married just to obtain a visitors visa.

Unfortunately the application does not involve an interview it is all by paperwork. I feel sure an interview would work in our favour, my girlfriend is fluent in English and very intelligent and we cauld argue our case. For every problem the clearance officer has there is a perfectly plausable response which could be made in an interview.

Regarding overseas trips we have only been to Shanghai for a week (evidence was sent with the application) but this counted for nothing.

Richard 1808 I take on board what you say but I have spent 5.5months in Samui and 6.5 months in the UK in each of the last 5 years in my mind I live in Samui and work in the UK. It may not be a conventional relationship however this makes it no less genuine and we probably spend more time together than a lot of couples who conventionally live together. You say people of no importance have backed up my story and I understand where you are coming from. As my attempt at providing proof has not worked how do you suggest I back up my story?

For any interested parties the Entry Clearance officer's decision:-

I have refused your visa application on this occasion because I am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that you meet all of the requirements of section 41 (i),(ii) of the immigration rules. The decision was made on the merits of this application. However, if you have a previous application and immigration history, this may have been considered.

The entry clearance officer's reasons and supporting evidence:-

Your application has been considered on the basis of the papers and documents submitted and without an interview. I am aware you have been given every opportunity to provide any documents you wish to support your application. Furthermore I am aware that enough information has been made avaliable to you to ensure that you know in advance what documents we expect to be proivided. You were recently refused entry clearance as a visitor and you have now re-applied. Each and every application is considered on its own individual merits, however I can see no change in your circumstances on this occasion to warrant issue of a visa.

You state in your application that you wish to visit your British sponsor, xxxxx, in the united kingdom for a period of eleven days. There is an onus upon you, under UK immigration law, to demonstrate the genuineness of your intentions but you have failed to do so, as you have not provided substantive evidence of your relationship with your sponsor. I note that your sponsor has provided evidence that he has visited Thailand many times, but has provided nothing to demonstrate he resided with you on those occasions. The only evidence on which to base the nature and substance of your relationship is a letter from friends in Thailand and some photographs. In summary, insufficient evidence has been provided to show you are a genuine and subsisting relationship and therefore that you are a genuine visitor to the UK for the period and purpose stated by you.

You are a single person of working age and are renting a pharmacy. It is not clear why you are travelling in November, when the high season is starting in Thailand or why, given you claim to have known the applicant for 5 years, you havew not applied to travel before. You have little in The way of assets, ties or property, which might encourage your presence in your country. I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the united kingdom at the end of the period of the visit as stated by you.

I acknowlege that you have now shown, through your sponsors funds, that you have sufficient funds to support yourself during your visit. However given that you have failed to show a genuine and subsisting relationship with your sponsor, I cannot be satisfied that these funds will be avaliable to you for your visit.

I therefore refuse your application.

[Kadafi]

Thanks for the replies.

Firstly we have no intention of permanently living in the UK. In a few years I will be in a position to move to Thailand permanently at which time we will probably marry, I don't want to get married just to obtain a visitors visa.

Unfortunately the application does not involve an interview it is all by paperwork. I feel sure an interview would work in our favour, my girlfriend is fluent in English and very intelligent and we cauld argue our case. For every problem the clearance officer has there is a perfectly plausable response which could be made in an interview.

Regarding overseas trips we have only been to Shanghai for a week (evidence was sent with the application) but this counted for nothing.

Richard 1808 I take on board what you say but I have spent 5.5months in Samui and 6.5 months in the UK in each of the last 5 years in my mind I live in Samui and work in the UK. It may not be a conventional relationship however this makes it no less genuine and we probably spend more time together than a lot of couples who conventionally live together. You say people of no importance have backed up my story and I understand where you are coming from. As my attempt at providing proof has not worked how do you suggest I back up my story?

For any interested parties the Entry Clearance officer's decision:-

I have refused your visa application on this occasion because I am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that you meet all of the requirements of section 41 (i),(ii) of the immigration rules. The decision was made on the merits of this application. However, if you have a previous application and immigration history, this may have been considered.

The entry clearance officer's reasons and supporting evidence:-

Your application has been considered on the basis of the papers and documents submitted and without an interview. I am aware you have been given every opportunity to provide any documents you wish to support your application. Furthermore I am aware that enough information has been made avaliable to you to ensure that you know in advance what documents we expect to be proivided. You were recently refused entry clearance as a visitor and you have now re-applied. Each and every application is considered on its own individual merits, however I can see no change in your circumstances on this occasion to warrant issue of a visa.

You state in your application that you wish to visit your British sponsor, xxxxx, in the united kingdom for a period of eleven days. There is an onus upon you, under UK immigration law, to demonstrate the genuineness of your intentions but you have failed to do so, as you have not provided substantive evidence of your relationship with your sponsor. I note that your sponsor has provided evidence that he has visited Thailand many times, but has provided nothing to demonstrate he resided with you on those occasions. The only evidence on which to base the nature and substance of your relationship is a letter from friends in Thailand and some photographs. In summary, insufficient evidence has been provided to show you are a genuine and subsisting relationship and therefore that you are a genuine visitor to the UK for the period and purpose stated by you.

You are a single person of working age and are renting a pharmacy. It is not clear why you are travelling in November, when the high season is starting in Thailand or why, given you claim to have known the applicant for 5 years, you havew not applied to travel before. You have little in The way of assets, ties or property, which might encourage your presence in your country. I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the united kingdom at the end of the period of the visit as stated by you.

I acknowlege that you have now shown, through your sponsors funds, that you have sufficient funds to support yourself during your visit. However given that you have failed to show a genuine and subsisting relationship with your sponsor, I cannot be satisfied that these funds will be avaliable to you for your visit.

I therefore refuse your application.

To be honest i think there response has brought up some valid points and concerns. Having read your story and about your 5 year relationship something doesnt quite sound right, seems like you might be holding something back and trying to present yourself as 'the ideal visa acceptance'. Over a period of 5 years and spending 2 weeks together in every 4, you should by now have plenty of solid relationship information built up. Emails between the two of you while you are back in the UK, photos over the last 5 years, trip to Shanghai, birthdays, christmas etc. Maybe they believe there are other reasons why you have been flying back to Thailand every month, that maybe you have known this girl for 5 years but she isnt the reason for your such frequent visits. You need to prove this relationship is genuine with as much information as you possibly can, a letter from a bar owner is far from convincing them. In 5 years has any of your family travelled to Thailand to meet your girlfriend? you have known each other for long period of time and evidence should reflect this....

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Has the ECO actually looked at the application ?

Did you include lease for the pharmacy ?

And purchase contracts ?

[7by7]

you should by now have plenty of solid relationship information built up.......a letter from a bar owner is far from convincing them........you have known each other for long period of time and evidence should reflect this....

Quite. Surely you at least phone her while you are in the UK?

As TVE asks, what evidence did you provide to show that you own the pharmacy? The refusal letter says that she is renting it. Why do they think this when you own it?

Did you include a sponsor's letter outlining the history of your relationship, the reasons for her visit at this time and your future plans together?

From the refusal letter

I acknowlege that you have now shown, through your sponsors funds, that you have sufficient funds to support yourself during your visit.

This raises the question of what was in her previous application. It appears that you providing the funds wasn't; were you mentioned at all? If not, then I am not at all surprised the ECO is suspicious if she has suddenly found a sponsor that she has known for 5 years in between the two applications.

Social visit visa refusals cannot be appealed, and even if they could this would now, at least three months later, be out of time.

All I can suggest is that she re-applies; including as much evidence as possible of your long relationship and her situation as your partner, rather than your tenant, in the pharmacy. You should also fully explain the reasons for any apparent inconsistencies between the first application and the second.

[iian23]

Kadafi -

I really am holding nothing back, what would be the point I am trying to get help from people on this forum I don't know and don't know me. I gave photo's with the application, I provided evidence of trip tp Shanghai. We have text each other every day I have been in the UK since we met, I never considered that as proof, trouble is I have a pay as you go phone so not sure what records the phone company will keep, but I will give them a call they must have something.

Thai Visa -

I really do wonder if anyone has read our applications, my suspision was first aroused in the first application when one of the refusal reasons was the fact we had never left Thailand together, even though I had provided evidence of the trip to Shanghai. Yes I did include the lease for the shop and the deeds to the land she owns in Khon Kaen.

7by7 -

I am only renting the premises which is what the ECO meant, its our business but the shop landlords in Chaweng, the main shopping area, only give 1 year leases. Even though there is no problem renewing every year, I suppose there is a slight possibillty of refusal which would leave us with no business. However this is extremely unlikely and if it did happen we would simply find a new shop to rent.

I did include a sponsors letter explaining our situation.

Regarding the first refusal and the lack of funds proof. That was my fault, I had no idea such extensive documentation was required and I did not realise that by simply wanting to take my girlfriend to the UK for a holiday made me a sponsor and therefore did not include any of my personal financial information. However we did state the reason for the trip was to visit my family nothing was hidden from the ECO. I just did not read the application forms fully - entirely my fault.

Is the application process we went through the only way of obtaining a visa? It seems unfair that the ECO gives a reason for refusal, correct or incorrect, but gives no advice on what they actually need or give you the right of reply. I'm sure we would be more successfull if we could apply in person. I hear people talk about interviews are these for other types of visa applications.

[rocketmanbkk]

1. - insufficient proof to show we are in a genuine relationship - I sent a letter from our landlord stating we have lived together for 5 years, a letter from a british ex police officer who now owns a bar saying he has known us for 5 years, copies of my entry and exit stamps and several photohraphs. what more can I do?

You need letters, correspondence, emails, all with dates or how can the embassy know you are telling the truth - you need to make sure you give them what they require. DATES is the answer to get around this issue.

2. - You are a single person of working age and renting a pharmacy. It is not clear why you are travelling November, when the high season is starting in Thailand or why, given you claim to have known the applicant for 5 years you have not applied to travel before. You have little in the way of assets. ties or property which might encourage your presence in your country. I am not satisfied under these circumstances that you are socially and economically well settled in your country. Accordingly I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the united kingdom.

Fair comment - why indeed? 5 years is a long time, you need to explain why. Do you own your own house, car etc.? What assets do you have? Do you have cash in a bank etc. The embassy quite rightly wants to see what you have to support yourself, you say you work but you are in Thai every month for 1-2 weeks? What work do you do? Show them your earnings. P.60 's etc. Yo need to make it so that they cannot ask you any further questions or refuse you on the basis of lack of information. Give them too much rather than too little. Give them everything even if they don't necesarily need it.

I hav enever had a problem applying for a visa, my now wife, friends, family, give the embassy everything they need and more.

Are you in the UK? PM me, maybe I can assist you. I have completed forms and evidence for many people, never refused.

The reason we have never applied before was because her job would not let her have more than 5 days at a time off work, which was one of the reasons we started our own pharmacy.

This wont wash, these are just excuses as the embassy will see it, she could have taken unpaid leave like others do if she really wanted to travel.

Let me know if you want.

Good luck

[7by7]

Are you in the UK? PM me, maybe I can assist you. I have completed forms and evidence for many people, never refused.

I trust that you either provide such advice completely free of any payment in cash or kind, or you are a qualified and registered OISC adviser or lawyer etc. Otherwise you are acting illegally. To be frank, I'm always wary of people in any walk of life who claim a 100% success rate; there's going to be a first failure at some point! No disrespect intended.

Having said that, much of what egg12345 says is sound.

Iian, you need to submit a new application and deal with each and every concern of the ECO in detail. Provide more evidence of your relationship; explain fully the arrangement over the pharmacy and who will be running it while she is away; explain your situation which allows you to visit her so frequently; explain why she has never applied to visit you in the last 5 years, and why she is visiting now.

Try and think of any possible question the ECO may have and provide an answer to it. Don't be afraid of submitting too much evidence; it's better to give them something they don't want than miss out something they do.

[tripplejjj]

@ iian23,

After taking much that has been said here, it looks like you have to go above and beyond with more evidence. It looks like you have to prove that your relationship is genuine and others. I recommend the following course of action. (This is only what I would do if I was in your shoes.)

I am only suggesting the following:

1. Your passport should show the dates you were in Thailand. You need to extract them from your passport and put them on a piece of paper to make it easier for the ECO to find. This paper would be a summary of the total days you were in Thailand so far. For every date that you used, please link it to the page on your passport.

2. If you two stayed together, provide (ALL) the photos (not just the good ones). The photos should have you two together, you two together with friends, you with her family, photos of you two outside the home, photos of her at work, photos of you with her at her work (nosing around), photos of you two during the holidays, two of you at the house/the land, and photos.

If you lack these type of photos, then start taking pictures and use objects (newspaper/magazines/billboard signs with dates) in the background to reference real dates, when possible. Don't worry about the photos looking like you did them for the ECO since the real ones that you provided as proof didn't get you any where either.

The red flag here would be if you have photos of you two together during the New Year and your passport has no record of you being here in Thailand at that time. (If you know the dates when the photos were taken, then write the dates on the back of the photos and make sure that the dates matched your passport. Another red flag is both of you have the same look/style (weight/hair/skinned tone) within the past 5 years.

3. Start making a home video of you two together at home and at her work and with friends. If you have a cell phone that can take videos, then that is good enough. (There is no need to try to get an award for the best videos. But do pray that the videos don't end up on the internet.) Include newspapers/magazines, when possible, to let them know that the videos are genuine. In the videos, both of you should have casual conversations. It would be best also to include the videos during daily outing to the markets, dining, and outdoors.

4. In the passports, both of you should have the same dates when traveled to other countries together. Extract the dates onto a piece of paper for easier reading. Link the dates to her passport and yours as well. I may also suggest that both of you take another trip outside Thailand to other countries where neither of you have problems getting visa. This would show the ECO that you have travel together outside Thailand and none of this crap about why wait until now to travel. (As far as I know, there is no time requirement in a relationship to travel.)

5. Get letters from respected local officials/friends with photos of you two with them. (You need more than one letter.) The letters should contain contact information such as names and phone numbers. If the ECO wants to verify, then he can call them. Letters of reference without contact information are useless to the ECO. Try to get letters from an English writing friends (don't worry about grammar) and Thai friends/relatives as well. There should be no need to translate the Thai letters into English since the letters are not formal nor official. Also, the embassy has translators on staff.

6. She own property. Provide paper work and photos.

7. She has savings. Provide bank book with regular deposits and withdraws.

8. She has a job (self-employ). Provide income tax statements. (Go as far back as possible.)

9. Do you own property? Provide paper work.

10. Do you have savings? Provide statements with regular deposits and withdraws.

11. You have a job. Provide income tax statements. (Go as far back as possible.)

Just remember that the ECO will look at all the evidence you provided only IF he is not satisfied. Thus far, the evidence that your provided was insufficient.

PS: At this point, the question becomes: How much are you two willing to do for yourselves to attain the level of happiness that both of you seek?

Edited February 9, 2010 by tripplejjj

[iian23]

Well thanks for all the advice.

I have provided most of what you all suggest, I think the proof of a genuine relationship is where I am lacking the most. I just wish I had known over the years I would need this proof I'm not big on taking photos and I don't keep birthday cards, e-mails etc. - how many men do!

I think the uniqueness of my job and the time I can spend in Thailand whilst working in the UK does not help. Friends I have known in Samui for years are still suspicious of my situation as some of you on this forum seem too be. I'm sure some of the people I know think I'm some kind of criminal, I'm just very lucky! So I suppose it should not be a surprise that the ECO was suspicious as well. I just wish I could talk to one of them and explain.

I just need to talk my girlfriend out of handing 30000baht to some bogus agency that claims to guarantee a visa, but who won't take payment on delivery!

[lovenut]

The biggest mistake was to quote a bar owner as a reference.. Lets face it, the majority of farang bar ownwers are into Bar Fines and all the sordid business of their profesion. An ex police officer would cut no mustard either. Remember the ICAC in Hong Kong.

[rocketmanbkk]

Nope, I just try to assist those who need advice and help, no charges as I work full time. I can give advice and try to assist with what further evidence is needed.

I have given assistance to about 10 people in about 5 years, not many, but friends etc. and all have been accepted.

Nothing dodgy, tell the truth and provide what they requiere and more to satisfy them.

[rocketmanbkk]

By the way, once last thing that I forgot to say, you haven't stated what kind of visa you are trying to obtain.

if it is a holiday visa then you should know that this isi very very difficult to achieve unless you are a hi-so Thai with lots in teh bank.

Consider applying for a fiance via, thi sis easier, imo, to achieve an dwill give her more time in the UK if she needs it.

That was just a thought so think about it as visit vis's are very hard to get.

[iian23]

Lovenut- you may well be right I did think the same.The bar is not a girlie bar and he has given successfull references before. But as I am learning the ECO's, if they can be bothered reading the applications, assume the worst.

Egg12345

I did apply for a visitor visa as all she wants to do is visit my mother and nephew, go shopping at Harrods and see Big Ben! Thanks for the offer, I may well take you up on it next time. Just one question if I do apply for a fiance visa next time will they not be even more suspicious.

[7by7]

if it is a holiday visa then you should know that this isi very very difficult to achieve unless you are a hi-so Thai with lots in teh bank.

Sorry, wrong.

A trawl through the archives of this forum will show that many Thai people from all walks of life have obtained visit visas to the UK, many of them sponsored by a British partner and many of them with very little in the bank.

Consider applying for a fiance via, thi sis easier, imo, to achieve an dwill give her more time in the UK if she needs it.

Sorry, wrong again.

A fiance visa may be easier to get than a visit visa in some circumstances as it is a settlement visa and so there is no need to demonstrate a reason to return.

However, a fiance visa lasts 6 months; the same as a visit visa. If one wants to stay longer than that then one would need to marry one's sponsor and then apply for Further Leave to Remain based on the marriage.

Only apply for a fiance visa if it is your intention to marry and settle in the UK. If she obtains a fiance visa and then returns to Thailand without marrying and applying for FLR, then the next time she applies for any UK visa she will have to explain why she didn't marry you and why she didn't apply for FLR.

[rocketmanbkk]

This is the issue!!!!

To apply or not to apply, only you will know what the best thing to do is but as I said a holiday/visit visa is very difficult to achieve unless you know someone or your gf has plenty cash etc. etc. very difficult indeed.

If you want to apply for a fiance visa, they are , imo, easier to get but I don't know anyone who has received one, not married and returned then successfully apllied for another,. probably can be done but on what grounds? You will be asked why you did not marry the 1st time? What good answer is there? Exactly, not alot! As I say, it is your choice but I wish you luck.

[Kadafi]

In visa applications i thought you were supposed to be truthful? he has already told the ECO that his job allows him to travel to Thailand every 2 weeks, why would they think he suddenly wants to fly her over to England to marry and settle down? a far cry from the 10 day holiday he just applied for. I believe he would do himself more damage applying for fiance visa at this point. Just state the truth and supply the relationship evidence, there is nothing wrong with wanting your girlfriend to visit the UK for a short holiday after you have been together 5 years....

[mark515]

MY girlfriend had 20baht in her bank account.

6 month tourist visa granted.

I was her sponsor showed my UK business accounts and savings. Total availabe funds were £15 k or more.

DONT APPLY FOR A FIANCE VISA AND NOT GET MARRIED. Bad move in the end more problems to sort out next time. This would not be telling the truth and would be found out later.

[Arkady]

By the way, once last thing that I forgot to say, you haven't stated what kind of visa you are trying to obtain.

if it is a holiday visa then you should know that this isi very very difficult to achieve unless you are a hi-so Thai with lots in teh bank.

Consider applying for a fiance via, thi sis easier, imo, to achieve an dwill give her more time in the UK if she needs it.

That was just a thought so think about it as visit vis's are very hard to get.

Visitor visas are certainly not restricted to hi-so Thais with loads of dosh. My g/f is not hi-so and doesn't have a huge bank balance but she has successful obtained 3 UK vistor visas (including a 2 year one), 3 Schengen visas, an Australian visa and a 10 year US visa. Funnily enough the Australian one was the most trouble as they asked for a photo album to proove we had been on the trips we said we had been togehter. You have to make a convincing case of 1) her situation, 2) your situation, 3) the genuiness of the relationship, and 4) the reason for the trip. I think the OP failed on all four. Being self employed in a small business is easier to fake than having a job and, unless it is quite profitable, no particular reason to come back. More documentation is required to proof that the business in fact exists and is profitable. The OP's employment situation sounds suspicious to a consular officer, who would automatically assume the OP doesn't have a solid career unless convincing evidence is provided to the contrary. The relationship doesn't sound at all convincing and the evidence of a bar owner and a landlord don't lend much support for the case. There was no convincing reason for the trip at that time. Evidence of a family wedding or a special birthday party or something like that would have been more convincing plus an explanation of who will take care of the business while she is away. Put yourself in the shoes of the consular officer. Would you give her visa?

The funny thing is that hundreds of bar girls manage to get visitor visas to visit Western countries every year. Last year I was in the waiting room of a European embassy that has the disgusting habit of letting the local staff interviewing Thai visa applicants publicly at the counter. I had to wait quite a long time and saw three very obvious bar girls and one very obvious gay man being interviewed for visas to visit boy friends. The staffer's voice came through a microphone and it was impossible not to overhear these public interviews which I am sure would be regarded as an abuse of human rights in the European country itself. Two of the girls had visited other foreign men in other countries before applying to that country. We were all on the same schedule to come back and collect passports and all four of these applicants were successful and jumped up and down for joy. On a previous visit to another European embassy I saw a lady boy get a visa. It is all about putting together a convincing case on all points and not about being hi-so or wealthy.

BTW I disagree with comments that building up a record of travel to Asian countries can be helpful. In my experience Western embassies are only interested in prior travel to other Western countries. When my g/f first applied to the British embassy in the days when you went to the Embasy and could talk to the consular officer, her prior travel within ASEAN was politely scoffed at by the officer who only gave her a three week visa the first time, due to lack of previous travel (i.e. the ASEAN countries didn't count as travel).

[theoldgit]

BTW I disagree with comments that building up a record of travel to Asian countries can be helpful. In my experience Western embassies are only interested in prior travel to other Western countries. When my g/f first applied to the British embassy in the days when you went to the Embasy and could talk to the consular officer, her prior travel within ASEAN was politely scoffed at by the officer who only gave her a three week visa the first time, due to lack of previous travel (i.e. the ASEAN countries didn't count as travel).

Yes, but travel within Asia is a good start and proves that you have returned to your home country following previous visits, not all Asian countries are soft touches.

Think about what you are saying? If you have no prior travel to Western countries you will not get a visa? So where do you start?

Of course prior travel is only a small part of the picture, but, IMHO, previous travel in ASEAN certainly does count.

[ChangMaiSausage]

The mistake was made in the first application, I'm amazed that you did not do your homework before applying! I thought everyone at least looks at the embassy requirements before applying. Your second application just outlined that you have the available funds to support her but is still did not provide enough evidence of your five year relationship (this is what they want)

Did you explain your unique job in the sponsor letter as you must be very well off to be able to travel UK <-> BKK on a monthly/weekly basis.

Why not have a holiday away together in another European country and then apply for a UK visitors visa later in the year. If you can afford to fly to Thailand as often as you do then maybe you could fly your mother and nephew out to ??????????? to meet your tilac.

Good luck.