Phuket Air's operating licences suspended

[Belfastboy]

Poo Air update:

Phuket Air banned from the UK

BANGKOK: -- A Thai airline has been banned from flying to the UK after an incident in which passengers stopped a plane taking off, believing there was a fuel leak.

Phuket Air did not wish to comment on having its operating licences suspended in the UK and the Netherlands.

But the Department for Transport said the ban was due to the "number and severity" of safety breaches found in Civil Aviation Authority inspections.

The airline still has a plane impounded at Gatwick due to unpaid landing bills.

'Confidence'

Phuket Air did not wish to comment on the licence suspension, but a UK spokeswoman did say the company had chosen to stop flights coming into the UK from 22 April because of a sharp fall in bookings following the tsunami.

Hundreds of British tourists stopped a Phuket Air plane taking off from Sharjah Airport in UAE at the beginning of April because they feared fuel was leaking from a wing.

They were let off the Bangkok-Gatwick plane, but the airline said ground staff had overfilled a fuel tank and there was no danger to passengers.

A second flight sent to pick up the tourists was also delayed at UAE for nearly 11 hours because of further technical trouble, before arriving safely in the UK.

Passengers had refused to fly on the first plane after some passengers screamed as "gallons" of fuel "spewed" from the plane's wing, witnesses said.

At the time Phuket Air threatened legal action, saying no-one was in danger and that some passengers had caused panic and affray.

Safety standards

A Department for Transport spokesman said a recent inspection by the Civil Aviation Authority on a Phuket Air plane found that the aircraft failed to reach safety standards.

The CAA found a faulty collision avoidance system, damaged gearbox and defective emergency lights.

The spokesman added: "The faults on the aircraft were only fairly minor and there was nothing to cause major alarm.

"But when you added all the faults together they didn't reach the safety standards required."

BAA also confirmed it has been holding a Phuket Air plane for the last month and it is unlikely to leave until the airline has paid its landing duties.

--BBC 2005-05-07

[puipuitom]

Not only in UK, but also banned in the Netherlands because of too many doubts about safety.

In Thailand money can buy everything but happily NOT in Europe.

[Som Nam Na]

Not only in UK, but also banned in the Netherlands because of too many doubts about safety.

In Thailand money can buy everything but happily NOT in Europe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I'm happily in Thailand. Not worrying too much about Phuketi Air cos I usually fly Emirates for the cigarette break in Dubai.

But it just goes to show what happens when the kids play with the big boys

[stao]

Returned on vacation from Kuwait/Iraq & tried to book with Puke-Et Air...

My only comment... If they take care of their aircraft like they take care of their prospective passengers then they are a disaster looking for a place to happen!

Puke-Et Air SUCKS

[ZRilla]

When I flew on North West Airlines from the U.S. to Japan there was a steady stream of fuel pouring out of the end of the wing - many, many gallons. The pilot said it was normal and that heat expansion from sitting on the ground for too long was causing them to discard fuel.

A firetruck showed up and they put on fire gear and made a little sand dam to contain the fuel and force it toward some drains. If someone had tossed a cigeratte there would have been some serious trouble.

How routine are large fuel discharges like that?

[falux]

I used to work for a European airline. You won't believe the shit that can happen. But emptying fuel like that does not sound standard to me. I only saw that in Chiang Mai, Thai Airways I think (not sure though), with the pilot standing there, smoking......

[lampard10]

I used to work for a European airline. You won't believe the shit that can happen. But emptying fuel like that does not sound standard to me. I only saw that in Chiang Mai, Thai Airways I think (not sure though), with the pilot standing there, smoking......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol,which cannot,or at least should not be ignited with a mere cigarrete.Aviation fuel is very stable,and does in fact need a lot to set it off.In fact in theory it will not burn on its own.The old piston Airplanes used to run on Green or High octane petrol,and then it was considered dangerous to smoke around them,even though people still did. It is also a fact that a nearly empty tank is potentially more dangerous than a full tank. All to do with the fact that it is the fumes that burn and not the actual fuel.

[BlackBeach]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

[lampard10]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

American planes run on Kerosene..British ones on Paraffin...please don't run people down without checking your facts. Kerosene is just another fine example of the Sceptic Tanks bastardising a word to try and make it their own.. WE invented the jet engine so WE invented what runs it.

The only thing I'll give you, is the fact that as most of the Worlds aviation for the past few decades has been U.S. motivated(till the advent of the Airbus) more people seem to refer to it as Kerosene. I for one am not Americanised so I still call it Paraffin.

[quiddity]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI) website . The URL below is a sublink on their site. Notice the term “paraffinic/cycloparaffinic” ?

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/produc...?osti_id=418564

The thermooxidative stability of blends of a straight-run Jet-A fuel (POSF-2827) and a paraffinic/cycloparaffinic solvent (Exxsol D-80) has been studied in a single-pass tabular heat exchanger operated isothermally at 185{degree}C. Autoxidation of most blends is found to be significantly slower than that of either fuel or solvent. Surface fouling relative to the solvent is increased by addition of jet fuel; this is attributed to reactions of natural antioxidants present in the fuel. Surface fouling relative to the jet fuel is reduced following paraffin addition under conditions of partial O{sub 2} conversion; this is attributed to a lower initiation rate as the concentration of aromatics is reduced. The impact of these findings for mitigation of surface fouling in aircraft fuel lines is discussed. 17 refs., 4 figs., 1 tab.

[falux]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

American planes run on Kerosene..British ones on Paraffin...please don't run people down without checking your facts. Kerosene is just another fine example of the Sceptic Tanks bastardising a word to try and make it their own.. WE invented the jet engine so WE invented what runs it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh, I thought the germans were the first ones to fly jets, during the second world war. I saw one of the planes, in a war museum in London! I might be wrong of course.

Concerning fuel, I found a very interesting page: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question105.htm

[Maejo Man]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not try doing a little research before jumping down another poster's throat? You are obviously not of an English speaking background. A dictionary would have prevented your ignorant post

[lampard10]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

American planes run on Kerosene..British ones on Paraffin...please don't run people down without checking your facts. Kerosene is just another fine example of the Sceptic Tanks bastardising a word to try and make it their own.. WE invented the jet engine so WE invented what runs it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh, I thought the germans were the first ones to fly jets, during the second world war. I saw one of the planes, in a war museum in London! I might be wrong of course.

Concerning fuel, I found a very interesting page: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question105.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sir Frank Whittle was attributed to inventing the jet engine. In fact we had jets during the war as well,although I don't think ours were as advanced as the Jerries. However I think you'll find that the Glouster Meteor did in fact enter service before cessation of hostilities in 1945

[quiddity]

I voted that I would fly Phuket Air. I dunno, gotta die some time and it could lead to an interesting way out or, at least, an adventure.

When I was in Peru, I was wanting to fly Grupo Ocho, the military line that allows civilians to fly when they have extra space. I was there in 1998 and read an account in Lonely Planet about a farmer on a flight who'd brought along various livestock. How true the story...who knows?

Guinea pigs are part of the diet (cuyo) in Andean South America and this farmer supposedly had some onboard. Story goes, the rascals got loose and caused a madcap chase to secure the animals before they had the opportunity to chew through wiring critical to the plane's safety (communications, electronics, etc.). Now, THAT sounds like fun.

Phuket Air needs to offer some steeply discounted fares. I'd be on in a heartbeat. Too bad it might bring the last heartbeat.

[BlackBeach]

no offence meant...but, funny thing is...

I'm German, the jet engine was indeed invented in Germany during WWII and we call the plane fuel... kerosene

[DaveYo]

I read the comment from you Falux, and if it is true that you indeed worked in the past with some European Airline, you of all people should know the extreme seriousness of fuel spills.

Number one, all planes have a bleed system to relieve pressure build up, and those vents are located in another section of the plane. When one sees fuel coming out of the wing tip area, that definitely tells everyone that the particular plane is full topped out period.

Those on the fueling truck should have known better and immediately hit the emergency stop switch. One is not suppose to keep going and keep seeing that fuel come out at all.

It becomes extremely dangerous once exposed. That is why you need to have oil dry and sand especially to soak it up and contain the area. Before that plane can leave you also need a vacuum truck to also clean up the wet area, and again also they have to add more sand in the area till it is all dried up period.

It does happen once in awhile, and when it does, usually the gauges reading and the meter box reading under the wing are not in sync and thus it throws off the projected amount needed to be refueled. All airlines know the amount of fuel needed to fly to each destination plus the reserves. It is automatically calculated and such is sent to the fuel station depot. From there the fueling truck drivers go to the gate with the data and they put in the required amount according to the sheets given.

So when such spill does occur, that indicates one of the two causes. Either the fuel gauge reading in the cockpit is off or the meter box under the wing. Over 90 % of the time it is the meter box which us mechanics then make the adjustments necessary to match the same to the gauge in the cockpit and such is checked out via proceedures so given.

Those fuel trucks undergo extensive meter checks about once a week for verification at the main fuel depot outside the airport usually during night time. They have a main meter box there which is the God Meter that all trucks must go by. There is an allowance of error being only 1 gallon per 1,000 gallons of fuel. If it is more than that, the truck gets grounded and the meter is taken off and sent to the repair shop and replaced with another meter. This means at 8,656 gallons of fuel it is only 8.5 gallons off, or 57 pounds of fuel.

So most trucks can put an extra 8.5 gallons if needed after 58,000 pounds have been put in if the pilot asks for it. Most pilots do not ask for it around 99.9% of the time since it is really only 30 seconds of fuel left on a 747. Each engine burns up 3 gallons of fuel a minute at idle. So 3 times 4 engines equals 12 gallons. About 30 seconds of fuel so to speak.

So basically a 747 depending the atmosphere conditions with no head wind or tail wind can go a good 12 hours non stop before it runs out of fuel with no bypass being used. Having a bypass and the efficiency of the engines today they can extend the range to 14 to 16 hours in the upper altitudes.

Going eastbound a piece of cake cause they love the jet stream. Going westbound it is a fuel burner and they avoid the jet stream like it is poison. Going westbound all planes look for no headwind and try to hit the bottom part of the High system or the top of the Low system for the boost thus giving it some tail wind push.

Now about Phuket Air, I am happy to read that report since I know the mechanics here in Thailand are terrible when it comes to repairs. I suspected this for some time after watching them and knew that the FAA will step in sooner or later. Heck a damaged gear box is indeed very serious. I wonder about the mentality of the Airline itself when they say it is not serious. They have to be totally nuts.

This should serve as a warning to Thai Airways now that they are entering USA airspace with their Airbus aircraft. They will be watched closely.

Also with the new rules being implemented as of space in the air, now all aircraft can pass within a thousand feet horizontically or vertically. Therefore they must have the new instrument inside the cockpit AACWS which is designed specifically for this purpose, and must pass the FAA ratings on its use.

Lampard, you are correct on your assesment of Aviation fuel, for the most part. I will leave it be since some parts can be argued about but it is not that important in any rate since most people will not understand what we are talking about in the first place.

Daveyo

[aviador88]

If you used to work for an airline,then you will realise that planes run on paraffine not petrol...

And if you'd have a clue you'd know that planes run on kerosene and not on candle wax

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

American planes run on Kerosene..British ones on Paraffin...please don't run people down without checking your facts. Kerosene is just another fine example of the Sceptic Tanks bastardising a word to try and make it their own.. WE invented the jet engine so WE invented what runs it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh, I thought the germans were the first ones to fly jets, during the second world war. I saw one of the planes, in a war museum in London! I might be wrong of course.

Concerning fuel, I found a very interesting page: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question105.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sir Frank Whittle was attributed to inventing the jet engine. In fact we had jets during the war as well,although I don't think ours were as advanced as the Jerries. However I think you'll find that the Glouster Meteor did in fact enter service before cessation of hostilities in 1945

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[aviador88]

Well put Lampart10

As one who’s “been there, done that” I concur. A jet engine will run on anything short of beer, in fact Scotch would do, if it weren’t so darned expensive :>) You could extinguish a cigarette in a bucket of JP. A real brave and quick handed person could to the same with gasoline if fast enough to get past the evaporating fumes. I once walked across the tarmac in Shannon Ireland towards the maintenance Hangar of SRS (Shannon Repair Service) where the bird was receiving some last minute TLC before heading home, smoking a cigarette. This was already the era of the kerosene burners. There wasn’t an airplane within 5000 feet when Air Rianta’s finest, a constable in full regalia came racing up to me with his motorized salt shaker. “Captain, you of all people should be awarrre of the dangerrrrs associated with smoking’ on airporrrt property.” “Ha? What, where ? I don’t see any airplanes.” “Neverrr you mind sirrr, but it’s the law don’t you know.” I was tempted to play the wise guy and point out to the man that, yes with the alcohol on his breath, there was indeed eminent danger of a cataclysmic explosion. But at times it pays to just shut up and say, “OK, if you say so.”

The “leaking fuel” situation.: When fuel is stored in underground tanks where the temperature is low and then pumped to the surface on a hot day it will expand and exit via the “vents” built into the wings, especially if there are long delays. I have had passengers send the cabin crew to the cockpit to report smoke emanating form the wing tips, when in fact it was just vapor trails generated on a very humid day. In the old recips the Lockheed Constellation for example during a night flight once at cruising altitude, there was always at least one report of an engine on fire, when the flight engineer manipulated the mixture controls to lean for the least fuel burn. It would start out as a long yellow 5 or 6 foot burn from the exhaust stacks then become shorter and shorter , leaving just a light bluish flame. Once, in a Lear jet, where there is no cockpit door, I was solid in the clouds, one couldn’t see more than a few feet in all directions. The auto pilot was on and I had turned around conversing with a passenger in the row behind me. After landing some busybody reported to the company that “I wasn’t watching where I was going”.

I think I have met most of the Kookoo birds, posing as passengers.

But it was fun anyway. If I didn’t fly I would actually have been forced to work :>)

Cheers, the ol’ Capt’n retired at last.

[lampard10]

. After landing some busybody reported to the company that “I wasn’t watching where I was going”.

I think I have met most of the Kookoo birds, posing as passengers.

But it was fun anyway. If I didn’t fly I would actually have been forced to work :>)

Cheers, the ol’ Capt’n retired at last.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can remember a night freighter flight over Africa in a 707,knocked on the flight deck door. No answer. Went in and all the Nigerian crew were fast asleep.I went back to my seat and hit the zzzzzz's myself. Do all you passengers out there think people actually fly these planes?

[quiddity]

no offence meant...but, funny thing is...

I'm German, the jet engine was indeed invented in Germany during WWII and we call the plane fuel... kerosene 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, check this out, you're both wrong ! "The principles behind the jet engine have been understood for thousands of years. The first precursor to the modern jet engine was invented by Heron around 150 BC." Ain't that a gas?

The site below provides a history of the technology's development. This site and many others suggest that England's Frank Whittle and Germany's Hans von Ohain invented the modern jet engine concurrently, though unaware of the other's work. Hmm...

http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mvigeant/...je2/history.htm

[danintrang]

Riding a car anywhere is still much more dangerous. The safest think is not to be born.

[aviador88]

I voted that I would fly Phuket Air.  I dunno, gotta die some time and it could lead to an interesting way out or, at least, an adventure.

When I was in Peru, I was wanting to fly Grupo Ocho, the military line that allows civilians to fly when they have extra space.  I was there in 1998 and read an account in Lonely Planet about a farmer on a flight who'd brought along various livestock.  How true the story...who knows?

Guinea pigs are part of the diet (cuyo) in Andean South America and this farmer supposedly had some onboard.  Story goes, the rascals got loose and caused a madcap chase to secure the animals before they had the opportunity to chew through wiring critical to the plane's safety (communications, electronics, etc.).  Now, THAT sounds like fun.

Phuket Air needs to offer some steeply discounted fares.  I'd be on in a heartbeat.  Too bad it might bring the last heartbeat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't quite go along with your "gotto die some time", but I too had a strange experience hitching a ride on Aereo Mexico years ago which at the time was flying a converted C47, the military version of the venerable DC3. Not only were there too many passengers, some sitting on the floor, but the cabin also contained chickens, goats as well as a fellow with a basket containing a boa constrictor. The first officer was transferring fuel in flight via a wobble pump which leaked like a sieve, smoking a cigarette at the same time.

Ah, them was the days

Greetings, the ol capt'n.

[raslin]

no offence meant...but, funny thing is...

I'm German, the jet engine was indeed invented in Germany during WWII and we call the plane fuel... kerosene 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The patent for jet engines, on which the modern ones are based, was granted to Sir Frank Whittle in 1930. The Germans used his design for their experiments. Whittle used his design to develop the W.1 plane which flew first in 1940.

Sorry about this!

[danintrang]

Did you remember this story? About 4-5 years ago (I'm not sure), some journalists follow a few pilots from British Airways and they find out that they drunk a great quantity of alcohol just before flying. It was quite a big scandal for a few day and then .... nothing.... Does any one know what happend?

[Faro]

Poo Air update:

Phuket Air banned from the UK 

BANGKOK: -- A Thai airline has been banned from flying to the UK after an incident in which passengers stopped a plane taking off, believing there was a fuel leak.

Phuket Air did not wish to comment on having its operating licences suspended in the UK and the Netherlands.

But the Department for Transport said the ban was due to the "number and severity" of safety breaches found in Civil Aviation Authority inspections.

The airline still has a plane impounded at Gatwick due to unpaid landing bills.

'Confidence'

Phuket Air did not wish to comment on the licence suspension, but a UK spokeswoman did say the company had chosen to stop flights coming into the UK from 22 April because of a sharp fall in bookings following the tsunami.

Hundreds of British tourists stopped a Phuket Air plane taking off from Sharjah Airport in UAE at the beginning of April because they feared fuel was leaking from a wing.

They were let off the Bangkok-Gatwick plane, but the airline said ground staff had overfilled a fuel tank and there was no danger to passengers.

A second flight sent to pick up the tourists was also delayed at UAE for nearly 11 hours because of further technical trouble, before arriving safely in the UK.

Passengers had refused to fly on the first plane after some passengers screamed as "gallons" of fuel "spewed" from the plane's wing, witnesses said.

At the time Phuket Air threatened legal action, saying no-one was in danger and that some passengers had caused panic and affray.

Safety standards

A Department for Transport spokesman said a recent inspection by the Civil Aviation Authority on a Phuket Air plane found that the aircraft failed to reach safety standards.

The CAA found a faulty collision avoidance system, damaged gearbox and defective emergency lights.

The spokesman added: "The faults on the aircraft were only fairly minor and there was nothing to cause major alarm.

"But when you added all the faults together they didn't reach the safety standards required."

BAA also confirmed it has been holding a Phuket Air plane for the last month and it is unlikely to leave until the airline has paid its landing duties.

--BBC 2005-05-07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Jingjok]

Paraffin/Kerosene? (Esso Blue or Pink? ... for those Brits who can remember )

Rather than argue linguistic anomalies, just call it by its international name, designed specifically to avoid confusion, the embarrassment of putting in the wrong fuel, and silly arguments on web sites:

1. Jet engines burn AVTUR (‘Aviation - turbine’)

2. Internal combustion engines burn AVGAS (Aviation gasoline - although should that really be Avpet to the purist? )

And hey, Aviador 88, Lampard 10 and Dave Yo, what a rare pleasure to find people who know what they’re taking about.

tsh-tsh-tsh-tsh-tsh! Jing jok (Rotary pilot and part-time wall lizard)

[quiddity]

I voted that I would fly Phuket Air.  I dunno, gotta die some time and it could lead to an interesting way out or, at least, an adventure.

When I was in Peru, I was wanting to fly Grupo Ocho, the military line that allows civilians to fly when they have extra space.  I was there in 1998 and read an account in Lonely Planet about a farmer on a flight who'd brought along various livestock.  How true the story...who knows?

Guinea pigs are part of the diet (cuyo) in Andean South America and this farmer supposedly had some onboard.  Story goes, the rascals got loose and caused a madcap chase to secure the animals before they had the opportunity to chew through wiring critical to the plane's safety (communications, electronics, etc.).  Now, THAT sounds like fun.

Phuket Air needs to offer some steeply discounted fares.  I'd be on in a heartbeat.  Too bad it might bring the last heartbeat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't quite go along with your "gotto die some time", but I too had a strange experience hitching a ride on Aereo Mexico years ago which at the time was flying a converted C47, the military version of the venerable DC3. Not only were there too many passengers, some sitting on the floor, but the cabin also contained chickens, goats as well as a fellow with a basket containing a boa constrictor. The first officer was transferring fuel in flight via a wobble pump which leaked like a sieve, smoking a cigarette at the same time.

Ah, them was the days

Greetings, the ol capt'n.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty good stuff. I really miss South America. You're a bit older than I am, I'm guessing by the DC-3 comment. Hey, I'm jealous; I'd love to have flown on some of those regal props. Those are graceful birds.

Well, the whole "gotta go sometime / somehow" thing. Yeah, maybe I'm a sicko but I know I'm not the only one who views it this way. Actually, back in my high school days I used to talk with a buddy about the value of an intense exit. A sheerly aware moment before the black, I guess. Maybe I wouldn't feel so romantic about it once it was upon me...yeah, probably.

Still, I've sat through some JARRING turbulence that had most fellow passengers freaking out. I just sat there looking around and kind of laughing a bit. I had the vision of the plane coming apart, like in that flick Fight Club. Yeah, maybe I am sick...ha ha. Why freak over something beyond control, though?

Have a good day, I'm in the night time here in the States. ######, I really miss Thailand.

[falux]

The subject seems not that evident, I like this info:

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bljetengine.htm

Let's agree that both Germans and Britains invented the jet. We're all Europeans, after all

[quiddity]

Did you remember this story? About 4-5 years ago (I'm not sure), some journalists follow a few pilots from British Airways and they find out that they drunk a great quantity of alcohol just before flying. It was quite a big scandal for a few day and then .... nothing.... Does any one know what happend? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about that particular story but the drunken pilot thing is no joke. I've got a friend who worked for a major US carrier for 8 years. He used to be a serious partier before he got married and would see the pilots out drinking until 3:00 and piloting red-eye flights at 5:30...still wasted and reeking.

Apparently, a trick throughout the industry is to hit the oxygen tanks to kill off the hangover. Thank God for auto-pilot, I guess. Some cats operate better with alcohol in the system, actually. I don't know if this is the case with these guys but...

[aviador88]

. After landing some busybody reported to the company that “I wasn’t watching where I was going”.

I think I have met most of the Kookoo birds, posing as passengers.

But it was fun anyway. If I didn’t fly I would actually have been forced to work :>)

Cheers, the ol’ Capt’n retired at last.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can remember a night freighter flight over Africa in a 707,knocked on the flight deck door. No answer. Went in and all the Nigerian crew were fast asleep.I went back to my seat and hit the zzzzzz's myself. Do all you passengers out there think people actually fly these planes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm.

Not too long before my retirement we returned from Miami back to New York in a Lear Jet. It had been a long day and we were getting close to the limit of our "duty" time. We had the choice to stay overnight or head home. Well, the decision was to go home to mama. It was only about a 2 1/2 flight but enroute we both needed some shut eye. A deal was made. OK I will sleep for about halve an hour and you will get your turn after that. What is the saying? The road to ###### is paved with good intentions. Well, we both fell asleep at 33,000 feet , missed a dozend handoffs and awoke close to canadian border We had some explaining to do to the chief pilot, but is was attributed to "radio problems".

Sometimes you win and sometimes not