The Creation Of A "good Samaritan" Kind Of Helping Structure

[surayu]

Hi! i am just wondering if there is any legal expert or just anyone in the knows that can shed some light on the subject, let's say we want to provide a first line help to any "falang" that suddenly find himself in need of some help and with nobody to turn to, will a "company setup" be required, involving paying tax and getting work permits or how does it exactly work? is helping on a personal basis(so without advertisements or any other way to make sure that people are aware something do exist to help) a new acquired "friend" the only way to be a proper person in LOS?

Thanks for sharing.

[SeanMoran]

I might be your first ever customer after next Friday, but life goes on...

... take it offshore and run the main mast of the ship through Indonesia, and set the sails here more subtly, as the wind blows, and there will be no legalities of any concern. That is why the Internet was REALLY invented. The Cold War is over now. Base your business in Bali and everyone is happy.

[surayu]

i still recall something like the "Tsunami" volunteers been denied giving their help after the disaster happened because of the visas or something like that, did anything improved on the humanitarian ground since that? maybe not, what a tragedy of a system.....

[SeanMoran]

i still recall something like the "Tsunami" volunteers been denied giving their help after the disaster happened because of the visas or something like that, did anything improved on the humanitarian ground since that? maybe not, what a tragedy of a system.....

Run the business side outside of Thailand and let casual word-of-mouth sort of things bring the Thai business to you. We're not short of mouths here in Thailand, but the Internet is the smoothest way to be heard if we all maintain our observancy of others.

[surayu]

The thing is everything must (MUST) be legal, i don't want to see something like a business, only no profit, but if that is not possible, then i don't think there is a law that deny anyone offering things like a free meal and a bed? but i might be wrong on that, after all TIT, so is anyone knowing the fact as they currently are?

Edited: Maybe it can be "interpreted" as "work" because even if not earning anything might just look like this? but let say one want to get a work permit on this, under what words will it be classified? ...."benefactor" ? )

[tw25rw]

Only falang? What about non-white people? What limits do you plan to set regarding the ethnicities/ntionalities you intend to assist?

[SeanMoran]

The thing is everything must (MUST) be legal, i don't want to see something like a business, only no profit, but if that is not possible, then i don't think there is a law that deny anyone offering things like a free meal and a bed? but i might be wrong on that, after all TIT, so is anyone knowing the fact as they currently are?

Edited: Maybe it can be "interpreted" as "work" because even if not earning anything might just look like this? but let say one want to get a work permit on this, under what words will it be classified? ...."benefactor" ? )

Well in that case I don't really know much about the intricacies of Thai law, but I have heard that you must have either a BA degree or a Thai slut with ID card to be your everlasting embassy friend, or a lot of money. Either way, it's a lot more effective to stay away from business in Thailand and do it from a civilised country, and just go with the flow, no questions asked, no money down.

[surayu]

Only falang? What about non-white people? What limits do you plan to set regarding the ethnicities/ntionalities you intend to assist?

"falang" intended as a "non-thai citizen" for which, being already in theyr own country, things supposed to be easier....

[jdinasia]

The thing is everything must (MUST) be legal, i don't want to see something like a business, only no profit, but if that is not possible, then i don't think there is a law that deny anyone offering things like a free meal and a bed? but i might be wrong on that, after all TIT, so is anyone knowing the fact as they currently are?

Edited: Maybe it can be "interpreted" as "work" because even if not earning anything might just look like this? but let say one want to get a work permit on this, under what words will it be classified? ...."benefactor" ? )

Honestly ---

You need some legal advice and this really isn't the place for detailed legal advice. I would suggest contacting SunbeltAsia (a sponsor) or Siam-Legal. If you are doing this as an NGO you my be able to get away with more than if you set it up as a typical 'business'.

Goodluck

[surayu]

Hi JD, thanks but NO THANKS, unfortunately a particular company, proved to be a total waste of hardly earned money, being it a sponsor it doesn't make it any better, believe me, however i don't want to go off topic on this, just stay well away from some sort of "masquerades" if you know what i mean, i appreciate your comment and i believe you gaved to me on the best of your intention, thanks.

[SeanMoran]

Hi JD, thanks but NO THANKS, unfortunately a particular company, proved to be a total waste of hardly earned money, being it a sponsor it doesn't make it any better, believe me, however i don't want to go off topic on this, just stay well away from some sort of "masquerades" if you know what i mean, i appreciate your comment and i believe you gaved to me on the best of your intention, thanks.

I have no time for people without guts, and I see that you have guts so let me know if you reckon I have the guts I know I've got, but understandably nobody else does. It could be so easy, but I don't bother with pretenders. You strike me as someone with guts. Send me a PM if things need to get confidential, but this is a great example of a good public exercise in altruistic worth if we can finish what we started. Go on.

[tw25rw]

Only falang? What about non-white people? What limits do you plan to set regarding the ethnicities/ntionalities you intend to assist?

"falang" intended as a "non-thai citizen" for which, being already in theyr own country, things supposed to be easier....

That isn't what falang means so it might help to identify a more suitable word.. Someone with better Thai, please advise..

[surayu]

That isn't what falang means.....

ok, here is the real thing for you :

[SeanMoran]

Only falang? What about non-white people? What limits do you plan to set regarding the ethnicities/ntionalities you intend to assist?

"falang" intended as a "non-thai citizen" for which, being already in theyr own country, things supposed to be easier....

That isn't what falang means so it might help to identify a more suitable word.. Someone with better Thai, please advise..

Non-Thai, if you can grasp the concept. Someone who doesn't have a Thai passport.

[TerryLH]

quotes by SeanMoron

"I have no time for people without guts, and I see that you have guts so let me know if you reckon I have the guts I know I've got, but understandably nobody else does."

???

"Non-Thai, if you can grasp the concept. Someone who doesn't have a Thai passport."

Does that include all the people born here who don't have passports?

[SeanMoran]

quotes by SeanMoron

"I have no time for people without guts, and I see that you have guts so let me know if you reckon I have the guts I know I've got, but understandably nobody else does."

???

"Non-Thai, if you can grasp the concept. Someone who doesn't have a Thai passport."

Does that include all the people born here who don't have passports?

That one is so easy that I reckon it's probably going to help you along the path of truth and righteousness if you can be left to work it out yourself. Best of luck.

---o0o---

BTW: thank you for that clever play on vowels with the Moron thing. That's so funny that even my dear departed Grand Father has risen from his grave to laugh along with you for your clever sense of wit. Bear in mind that he might hang around to laugh along with you for quite some time, and he likes Guinness pints if he gets thirsty, so make sure you have enough in your fridge to keep my Grand Father James S. Moran comfortable and he might instruct me to forgive you for such a pathetic attempt at an insult towards both myself and my Grand Father, but also the poor standard of education that you were inflicted with, for surely anyone with half a high school education can do better than calling me a moron?

[jdinasia]

quotes by SeanMoron

"I have no time for people without guts, and I see that you have guts so let me know if you reckon I have the guts I know I've got, but understandably nobody else does."

???

"Non-Thai, if you can grasp the concept. Someone who doesn't have a Thai passport."

Does that include all the people born here who don't have passports?

LOL ...

if the guy complaining about the use of "falang" was really concerned he would have corrected it to say "farang".

The word he is looking for is foreigner. (as the Thai phrase would be cumbersome and most people wouldn't get it - khontangphrathet or khonthangchat or some such )

I think the other quote ..... ah .. why bother ...

[cognos]

take it with a grain of salt Sean..you and Surayu are " my type of people".. the type who do not follow the crowd..i am all for helping almost anyone..but remember..you need to take care of your family first, me thinks.

i would be reluctant to help a sex tourist who runs out of money, wants to get back home, just to save up money to return to LOS again..its the dog chasing it's tail tale.

signed: but I would buy them a meal or two

[monkfish]

You may want to try a charity organization but I think that's only acceptable to help Thai people not Ferlang, check with a lawyer first though.

Good luck!

[surayu]

Hi Cognos, thanks for your remarks, i perfectly understand the risks of somebody that might just try to take advantage of the situation, i had the luck to be able to see so many kind of different human situations in the past, and doing my best in what i could, sometime it might not be so easy to spot the opportunism but i think i become quite good at it, i like a lot to read the news here and there, navigate into forums like this that are already a huge help for so many people, when i come across the so many "dramas" or even tragedies like foreigners taking off their own life, it just came natural to think, why? what can we do to stop all that? all these people might think they are at the very end, but there is always another chance hideing somewhere, maybe they just can't seen it in that particular moment and maybe they really haven't got any place to turn to, so, just to say, look here we can think on how reorganize this mess in the best of the ways, step by step, is already a great thing, it's like to have your best friend right there when you mostly need it, anybody can do it, but the current society is not welcoming this sort of things, it's much easier to just shut our door in the face of whom might really deserve some help, even if someone might have addictions or any other issue, it should not be so difficult to redirect them to the right spot, everybody is free to do whatever they like with their own life, to try to make some less lucky person better of with theirself shouldn't be something to be scared off, let's do of this world the place we would like it to be....or at least just try, there is no need to follow a particular party or religion to do good

[GuestHouse]

I think a non profit NGO structure is probably what you are looking for (this seems to be the chosen route for foreigners setting up dog/cat/animal rescue foundations) - Not that I'm referring to people who need help as animals, just an observation that these things do exist and are run by foreigners.

There used to be an organization in Bangkok called Bangkok Family services (or some such name) that offered marriage/drug/alcohol and suicide counseling - This closed I believe when the guy running it retired.

I actually do think there is a market for this service - though take a look around and take note of the impact taking funding from advertisers has. You'd need to be very very clear of who your customers are, particularly if you are offering last line of help to people with serious problems.

As we often see, you can't look after the people seeking help if the advice you needed to offer conflicted with the interests of your advertisers

[surayu]

Hi GuestHouse and thanks for your input on this matter, i started having a look around about this NGO way, to see that every year you need a licensed auditor and lots of paperwork involving lots of expenses is a big pull off already, i don't see what i would like to do like a business which is creating profits, there are so many organisations like charities in Europe that are mostly just looking at their own personal bank accounts and i feel really disgusted by that, seems that money must to be in front of everything and even if you just want to end up giving away part of your own money for the benefit of the community, they still want to tax you on that and impose other costs, what the hel_l of a system! Anyway i am taking my time with this research (i got a life too )and i hope i will be able to find something suitable, being able to accept donations is a way to be able to reach even more people in need, but that will put seriously at risk the whole thing as what happen if for any reason you can't reach the right amount to pay off all the costs imposed by the law? just close down the whole thing? might be better then to not to take anything at all and see if it's possible to give away only what is really necessary if the current law allow that....

[simon43]

Hi Suraya, my suggestions on this matter:

As others have indicated, to operate any sort of business, NGO or voluntary work inside Thailand, you need the proper paperwork and work permits etc to be 100% legal. Because of the practicalities that are involved, I doubt that your project would get off the ground - if you try to operate it from inside Thailand (:

To understand whether it would be possible via alternative solutions, I need to understand exactly what sort of services you would offer.

For example, you could offer a telephone number, which those in distress/need of help etc could call. I know there is a branch of the Samaritans in Bangkok, but I think you need to provide a telephone number where all types of advice and assistance can be provided. This could include referral to a local 'farang' who could personally meet the caller (if they wished), offer sympathy, a bed for the night etc etc.

It would be very feasible to set up a national telephone number that connected to a voice answering system that is located outside of Thailand, ('press 1 for this, press 2 for that etc). Those types of systems can be 'intelligently' configured to forward calls to mobile/land-line numbers in Thailand, such as 'press 1 to speak for English language help, cliquer deux pour assistance en langue francais.., or to divert to different phone numbers according to the time of day or who is on call.

The costs involved for such a project are minimal for setting up the telephone system, but the call-fowarding costs would need to be covered. However, VOIP services would help to minimise this cost.

Such a service could be advertised on the various forums, such as this one!

Let me know if this idea is along the lines that you were thinking.

Simon

[surayu]

I need to understand exactly what sort of services you would offer.

It will be a very basic sort of platform, if i can find a viable(legal) solution for it, offering something like meals and a place to stay until a better option for them came up, somewhere where people can stop over until they can get in touch with embassies, the family abroad, the social services in their own countries, etc, i think that when a problem suddenly materialize it's almost vital to get at least this very few things without having to worry about them, so the mind will be able to concentrate solely on the arised issues and also having a person not affected by these problems ready to discuss and help about this (which doesn't expect to receive anything in exchange, let's be VERY clear about it) can make a huge difference.

[simon43]

Surayu, your intent sounds very well-meaning, but I just wonder how many of us would step up to the mark and offer to help someone who could be on drugs, suicidal, mentally unstable, alcoholic etc etc. Helping out someone who needs a place to stay for a night is one thing, but trying to deal with some of the reasons why they need this help could be a job for a professionally trained counsellor.

It really depends on what you define as your services, and where you draw the limit. ('Sorry mate, I was going to help you, but now I realise that you are a nutter who just wants to steal some money from me for more drugs.....')

You get the idea?

Simon

[surayu]

Surayu, your intent sounds very well-meaning, but I just wonder how many of us would step up to the mark and offer to help someone who could be on drugs, suicidal, mentally unstable, alcoholic etc etc. Helping out someone who needs a place to stay for a night is one thing, but trying to deal with some of the reasons why they need this help could be a job for a professionally trained counsellor.

It really depends on what you define as your services, and where you draw the limit. ('Sorry mate, I was going to help you, but now I realise that you are a nutter who just wants to steal some money from me for more drugs.....')

You get the idea?

Simon

Yes i got the idea and i already pointed out that "opportunism" is something i am well aware of and i would add that i know how to deal with that.....

By no means i intend to replace the "professional counsellors" or similar, i would like to see the right people taking care of the right issues at all the times and everywhere, but being that not very realistic right now and seing all the dramas around, my intention is to be an intermediate point able to redirect the unlucky ones to the best possible place, considering that we are all different and with different requirements and issues just offering a night probably isn't going to do much, however better than just shutting our doors, not being a trained professional in the sector it doesn't deter me from trying to do my best to help who might need help, i can do it, everybody can do it, it would be nice to see more and more people start to see life under this or a similar prospective methink.

[surayu]

A quick update, still looking for more information on the setup, all i can find is burocracy which seems to put off any intent to create something good, they are just considering a no-profit organisation as any other business, imposing many costs which would costrict someone to just reduce all to a money generating machine, seems to be no room inside the local laws for humanity, it's only money-money-money, great! well i am still looking into it and i might even commission a lawyer to do a more technical research(maybe), just in case i missed something, in the mean time, if there is someone in the "knows" i would like to hear from you, thanks