P In Front Of A Womans Name

[peregrine8]

What does it mean when someone puts P in front of a womans name???

Thanks

[NADTATIDA1]

It is just a way of nicely getting ones attention or talking to someone who is older than you,man or woman.

respectful.

Edited February 16, 2010 by NADTATIDA1

[peregrine8]

It is just a way of nicely getting ones attention or talking to someone who is older than you,man or woman.

respectful.

Thank you....

[Rikker]

It stands for the Thai word พี่, pronounced "pee", like the letter name, only with falling tone. Not restricted to women's names. As mentioned, used in the 2nd or 3rd person to refer to people of roughly your same generation but older than you. Also used in the 1st person when speaking to someone younger (in place of "I").

[elcent]

it's for both. male and female and refers to older, respected etc..

[hiero]

I always wondered how one determines this:

I wonder whether the receiver subconsciously thinks "hmm, he is adding Pee in front of my name he must think i'm old/he must think i'm X years older than him"

[flying]

When referring to others

Pee is older than you

Nong is younger than you

[tgeezer]

I always wondered how one determines this:

I wonder whether the receiver subconsciously thinks "hmm, he is adding Pee in front of my name he must think i'm old/he must think i'm X years older than him"

When people go on appearance alone when you are small in stature or haven't become fat and juniors don't ไหว้ you or call you พี่ or you worse are and look younger than them and they do!

Is this perhaps the reason that on first meeting questions can seem rather personal?

[Jeddah Jo]

I always wondered how one determines this:

I wonder whether the receiver subconsciously thinks "hmm, he is adding Pee in front of my name he must think i'm old/he must think i'm X years older than him"

I have noticed with Thais that do not know each other, very often the first thing they ask is how old they are so they can establish a pecking order

[smint]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but sometimes I notice if they are of the same age but if it's someone serving someone higher in stature they will just call the 'higher' person Pee (if age is close or even if they are slightly older)... is it true?

[withnail]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but sometimes I notice if they are of the same age but if it's someone serving someone higher in stature they will just call the 'higher' person Pee (if age is close or even if they are slightly older)... is it true?

Yes, this happens. Two people I recall have called my gf pee who are older than her, an old student of mine and my laundry lady. The laundry lady has called her pee puu ying (when talking to me) and the student actually said it to her which she even commented on afterwards.

[mangkorn]

The other day, among a group of men, I heard one guy address another who must have been 20 years younger as พี่.

And he did so several times during the conversation.

I don't believe that chronological age is the only determining factor.

[RickBradford]

I think the determining overall factor is status.

Age obviously plays a large part in determining status, but so do occupation, wealth, reputation.

This is the case to an excruciating degree in Vietnam -- no personal interaction can take place without the speakers having mutually acknowledged their relative status (there are basically no polite personal pronouns at all in Vietnamese, everything is done via a kinship term).

The reason this is so much more obvious in Asia than in the West is that Asian societies operate a much more rigid social hierarchy, known as role/rule (everybody is supposed to know their role in society and must obey the prescribed rules pertaining to that role). Thailand may be emerging from this, but slowly.

Ideas of individuality and personal empowerment in Western society have junked the role/rule model, with a few exceptions pertaining to royalty.

[withnail]

The other day, among a group of men, I heard one guy address another who must have been 20 years younger as พี่.

And he did so several times during the conversation.

I don't believe that chronological age is the only determining factor.

Could be his age in relation to others in the group.

[DavidHouston]

An interesting question is how Thais handle cognitive dissonance or a conflict between two rules. For example a woman (นางกอ, for example) addresses her older brother as พี่. The brother's wife (สะใภ้ของนางกอ, Koh's sister-in-law), however, is younger than the นางกอ. What does นางกอ call her sister-in-law? A similar situation arises among school friends. Let's say นายขอ has a very close chum from high school of college and นายขอ has always called his chum "พี่". What does นายขอ call his chum's wife who is younger than นายขอ?

Anyone have experience with this question?

[Mosha]

A local woman who is older than my wife, refers to her as Pee Pa. It irritates my wife no end.

[hiero]

What happens if someone is a Doctor, but from a poor family and has themeselves little wealth

[meadish_sweetball]

An interesting question is how Thais handle cognitive dissonance or a conflict between two rules. For example a woman (นางกอ, for example) addresses her older brother as พี่. The brother's wife (สะใภ้ของนางกอ, Koh's sister-in-law), however, is younger than the นางกอ. What does นางกอ call her sister-in-law? A similar situation arises among school friends. Let's say นายขอ has a very close chum from high school of college and นายขอ has always called his chum "พี่". What does นายขอ call his chum's wife who is younger than นายขอ?

Anyone have experience with this question?

In my limited experience, they will often use the same pronoun as the person through whom they were introduced, even though it breaks the general rule. Probably different in each individual case, but you will hear Thais comment on the cases where the 'general' rule of younger-addressing-older is broken whereas the norm will rarely deserve a comment.

[peregrine8]

What if someone asks you to call them Pee (insert name). In a business setting.

[jdinasia]

What happens if someone is a Doctor, but from a poor family and has themeselves little wealth

You call him/her "Dr."

In a business setting it is polite to refer to someone the way they want to be referred to

[sbk]

I was informed that a wife should call her husband Pi, regardless of age differences.

And no, I do not call my husband Pi. I respect him completely but its a two way street in a marriage, not one of higher and lower IMO.

[xen]

I always understood it to mean " older sister" as a form of respect to somebody in the circle of friends/family /associates and i have always heard it associated with a slightly older female.

I have always been adressed as "Paa" which makes me feel old but I also understand it to be also an informal respectful way of adressing somebody within the family/friends circle.

I understand if it is used outside of that circle ,then it is a form of sarcasm, for example, if a taxi driver refers to you as "Paa" it does mean old man .

Just my understanding of the terms .

[tgeezer]

I always understood it to mean " older sister" as a form of respect to somebody in the circle of friends/family /associates and i have always heard it associated with a slightly older female.

I have always been adressed as "Paa" which makes me feel old but I also understand it to be also an informal respectful way of adressing somebody within the family/friends circle.

I understand if it is used outside of that circle ,then it is a form of sarcasm, for example, if a taxi driver refers to you as "Paa" it does mean old man .

Just my understanding of the terms .

I am called ผา Pa (rising tone) it means rock or stone, but not in this case obviously! I wonder if any Thai are called ผา.

[Groongthep]

I have always been adressed as "Paa" which makes me feel old but I also understand it to be also an informal respectful way of adressing somebody within the family/friends circle.

Are you sure they aren't actually saying บ้า? ..............just kidding

Edited February 21, 2010 by Groongthep

[mangkorn]

The other day, among a group of men, I heard one guy address another who must have been 20 years younger as พี่.

And he did so several times during the conversation.

I don't believe that chronological age is the only determining factor.

Could be his age in relation to others in the group.

Actually, everybody in the room was much older than the guy I'm referring to. They were all in their 50s and 60s, while he was about 25.

I agree in general with Rick's post on the subject. In the event, it wasn't clear to me what the young guy's relative socioeconomic status was, but I got the distinct impression that the honorific was given mostly because that setting was one of peers. (It's a sauna: a very clubby joint frequented mostly by Sino-Thai businessmen. Even I have finally become accepted - or rather, tolerated - and a couple of the old boys now call me พี่ - although very few of them do.

My socioeconomic status doesn't rate with those guys. Way out of my league. Perhaps there is some grudging acknowledgement of my profession - and that I can converse knowingly about politics - or, it is merely a resignation to the fact that I persist in showing up...

[Briggsy]

I am called ผา Pa (rising tone) it means rock or stone, but not in this case obviously! I wonder if any Thai are called ผา.

They are not calling you 'cliff'!!

They are calling you ป๋า short for ปาป๋า (not 100% sure on spelling there). This is derived from the Cantonese word for 'father'. It is a cuter way of showing respect than using ลุง. It may, only may, depending on the situation, denote you as the 'father' have some sort of obligation to [financially] look after the person/group calling you that.

[tgeezer]

I am called ผา Pa (rising tone) it means rock or stone, but not in this case obviously! I wonder if any Thai are called ผา.

They are not calling you 'cliff'!!

They are calling you ป๋า short for ปาป๋า (not 100% sure on spelling there). This is derived from the Cantonese word for 'father'. It is a cuter way of showing respect than using ลุง. It may, only may, depending on the situation, denote you as the 'father' have some sort of obligation to [financially] look after the person/group calling you that.

I think you are right, the rising tone made me go for ผา I shall listen more closely.

[tombkk]

The other day, among a group of men, I heard one guy address another who must have been 20 years younger as พี่.

And he did so several times during the conversation.

I don't believe that chronological age is the only determining factor.

It's one of the factors. Respect levels in Thai are for expertise, position, age: In that order.

In normal circumstances, the older one will be called P (I need to install some Thai writing software on this computer). However, in a business situation such as we being the customer, the sales person may be older than us but still call us P. The word actually means older brother or older sister, so it is not very formal but can break the ice even in a business context.

Should one be an engineer with a PhD and the other one is an engineer by way of on-the-job training (I'm making this up as an example of a huge difference in expertise) the one with the PhD will be addressed as P, even though he might be 20 years younger. But this is if they are a bit close, see above.

Relationship pronouns in Thai are difficult for Westerners to understand. I am frequently being addressed as 'ajarn' by my students, that is normal. When people in my business environment address me as 'ajarn', that is a sign of high respect. When my friends address me with my name, that is normal, even though they address each other with P (and with lesser frequency, Nong). If they address me (I am farang) as P, that is a compliment and a sign of respect. I have recently been addressed by industry peers (business owners like myself) as "hia" = "older Chinese brother". The ethnic Chinese are the owners of many successful businesses in Thailand, so that was an unexpected compliment from a Thai-Chinese business person.

Hia: It is used instead of P if the addressee is a Thai-Chinese male. A word that is a very respectful address, or a strong insult, depending on the tone. Don't use it if you are not 100% sure you pick the right tone! A fool who thinks he can learn Thai without learning the tones first. The equivalent for repectfully addressing a Thai-Chinese female if "Je", so unlike P, the addressing of older Chinese brothers/sisters (in feeling) is gender-dependent.

Edited February 28, 2010 by tombkk

[tombkk]

What if someone asks you to call them Pee (insert name). In a business setting.

That would be pretty unusual. Nobody asks anybody to call them P. You (or a Thai person) call them that out of respect, if they feel close enough to move from a formal address to a closer personal one.

Hm, come to think of it, I can imagine a Thai business person offering you (I assume you are farang) to address him a Pee, meaning that he likes you and will support you. While unusual, it's not impossible. You should accept it, it would be an insult to not to. And of course, it would be stupid not to accept, as he can open doors for you.