So Are You Happy With Only 30k Baht Per Month?

[BlackArtemis]

Scott: what I am referring to is the constant ragging on teachers and their salaries. Also the ones I am talking about are retirees and no longer in the work force and not looking to join the Thai "rat-race" Many people have come to Thailand on a pension after they have retired back home. In many cases their pension might not be able to keep them supported in the area they were working. They might be bringing in 60-90K/month but this was after living in the US for years but by the time they reach Thailand they have been through the wringer so to say. Where as many College grads can begin working and living happily for a few years on 30k and experience a whole different side of Thailand compared to their older counterparts. I don't believe the majority are jealous of the life style, but I am sure some are.

Sorry, I know that's rather convoluted, but I am having trouble trying to convey my idea in an eloquent way.

PB: I think it's rather easy to find a job paying 25k at a school that will pay for permits and visas in a decently sized town that has a lower cost of living. A relationship is manageable as well, but if you factor in children and expect to give them a decent education, or try to plan retirement, all bets are off.

[Ijustwannateach]

I know teachers from the, ahem, older set who have expressed some jealousy when I describe my working conditions, but there's a quick turnaround when I talk about the workload. The pay at the better places- especially including the true international schools- does come with commensurate increases in office hours, teaching loads, and responsibilities. By comparison, getting paid 30K for only a few classes spread over maybe 4 (or even 3) days at a university with the options for well-paid part-time work as desired gives them a lot more time for R&R (if needed) or flexibility to earn more (if needed) while reliably delivering the visa paperwork that is often the main point for the job.

Really, the two groups are in different markets- and I envy many of them to a certain extent because it's hard for me to imagine that many people in my generation will ever have the option for a reliably funded retirement, given the political and economic misbehaviour of our 'leadership'- but that's another topic altogether.

[toptuan]

Happy with 30K? I can't spend it all in one month, so end up saving 60% of it for international travel during school breaks and annual paid vacation.

Depends on where you live in Thailand and what standard of living you are happy with. Too much of an open-ended question. Too many variables.

am i right to assume that on top of that there is enough left to buy once in a while a one carat, top wesselton, blue-white stone for your lady?

Nope, wrong assumption. All those hi-so paraphernalia go to the mia nawy.

Edited February 22, 2010 by toptuan

[toptuan]

...folks like Toptuan, from what I know of him, doesn't really need the money (so he fits into my category 3)...

Another wrong assumption. You guys are so presumptuous in here!

I started out like PB...

PB: ...I had no pensions, and took the first job available, out in the province for 25K. [Toptuan: 17K]....No visa extension, no work permit, having to get my annual visa in USA. [Toptuan: a 30-day tourist visa, 13 months in a row. Try that now.] No support locally, totally inept administration. [Toptuan: yup, yup; been there, done that, got the T-shirt].....Most teachers can't survive long-term on 30K per month, with a wife and a kid. If you can, you're the exception.

Maybe I am, but it's interesting that we have seven foreign teachers on our staff working for less salary than I, one of them with three kids, with a similar background (no pension, not "independently wealthy," etc. ) and seem to make it just fine.

Of course, a lot of this is predicated on being outside of Bangkok (in our case, upcountry) and being happy with less than a "one-carat-for-the-missus-every-year" lifestyle. (Thanks to our elite member, Naam, for that analogy ). A lot of this, too, is predicated on the fact that our passion is teaching, and a lot of life's luxuries take a back seat to that passion. No complaints. Our choice.

Edited February 22, 2010 by toptuan

[toptuan]

P.S. to last post:

I venture to say that a lot of whiners ("whingers" for you Brits) in this profession in Thailand come from short-timers, folks who are here because of "other passions," and those who would complain just as badly even if they were the CEO's of the Bangkok branch of [name any international corporation].

[Ijustwannateach]

Sorry for my flagrant assumptions, Toptuan, but it was meant as a compliment, honest!

[HS Mauberley]

30,000 THB is not a bad starting salary.

I agree. It's not a bad starting salary.

[Martian]

Yup, happy....there's nothing else to it.

[thunder30101]

I think what too many people miss is that thailands economy just cant support the wages some people think they are worth. This isnt korea, japan or taiwan. I would def like to be making more money, but where I live 30k a month is a very nice salary, and I have lots of fun here. I also probably save about as much as I did in my home country as a percentage of income. Yes bangkok has much higher wages but it also has much higher living costs so it evens out. What really bothers me are the people who come here to teach and then complain about the wages, I aways wonder about someone that comes to a foreign country to live and work without doing any research on it.

[LazySlipper]

Hey, I haven't posted much here but have been an avid reader for a long time.

Seems there is more respect and the mods are more on the job here than the other "popular" site.

I posted there a while ago and discussed this 30.000 bht a month problem. I said that schools were going fishing and attempting to drop the salaries by advertising the lowest salaries I have seen in the last 8 years here.

I was scoffed at...yet it seems that for some reason 30.000 is now the norm.

I had also predicted that agencies would take over the market and fill positions with unscrupulous teachers... should I say unscrupulous agencies or teachers??? Up to you to decide...

I honestly believe that very soon we will see ads for 20-25k a month, and that 30k will be a thing of the past.

I applied for Ass scumption primary section a couple years ago. They were offering 65k plus bennies. Did anyone see the latest ad for teachers (about a month or so ago)? The new head guy who replaced long time chairperson G___ has decided to save the school money and started offering 48k a month for fully qualified teachers.

Buddies and budesses... this is just the start of the low salary scheme.

It is gonna get worse before it gets better. Honestly, I really hope the TCT does get stricter on its rules and laws. Hopefully the Kao San road degrees will get cleared up and there will be a demand for people who actually went through the trouble of studying in a Uni.

It is now the time for schools to advertise. If I am mistaken in my hypothesis only time will tell. However, I am looking forward to seeing the offers that will soon come up. I really fear I am right and I hope I am wrong.

Take care all.

Hope this forum stays as clean as I have deemed it to be!!!

[BlackArtemis]

I agree slipper, they are working towards a entirely Filipino work force. Not saying that there are anything wrong quality wise with Filipinos, but they would be one of the few groups of people willing to work for the pay these schools are offering.

I scoff at agencies, why should I pay X% of my salary for you just finding me a job, I can do the leg work myself.

Thunder: I agree with your statement as well. I have friends or meet people who love the idea to do what I did, go teach in SE Asia. I always tell them look to Korea, as they have no emotional investment in Thailand, they might as well make decent money and get a round trip ticket for their work.

[PeaceBlondie]

Never worked with Filipinos. I take it that most of them are like most Thai teachers of English: willing to work for under 20K; teach 24 crappy lessons a week; harp on about grammar but don't speak English well; and do whatever the administrators want. Am I wrong?

[thaicbr]

Never worked with Filipinos. I take it that most of them are like most Thai teachers of English: willing to work for under 20K; teach 24 crappy lessons a week; harp on about grammar but don't speak English well; and do whatever the administrators want. Am I wrong?

Ummm yep. But you missed out the arse licking. oops sorry there it is after the grammar bit.

[Ijustwannateach]

Some people are getting confused. Once again, there are several different markets here, which have nothing to do with each other in theory:

1. Thai teachers of English

2. Foreign TEFLers with no experience, training, or degree

3. Foreign TEFLers with experience and/or training and/or degrees

4. Foreign subject teachers with no experience, training, or degree

5. Foreign subject teachers with experience and/or training and/or degrees

6. Foreign subject teachers with all of the above, plus educational qualifications and/or teacher's licensing

7. Thai subject teachers

The problem with discussing what teachers 'should' get paid is that there is a broad range of what it means to be a teacher in Thailand. Virtually no statements which say 'teachers should/shouldn't receive less/more of XYZ' actually make any sense unless the speaker is clear exactly what kind of teachers he is talking about. Teachers in Thailand that I know receive between 6K up to 200K+ a month- an incredible range of incomes, if you think about it, but also for an incredible range of markets and levels of experience and qualification.

In the end, if you want someone with full qualifications from a native English-speaking country to come and do the job here, you will have to make the pay at least equitable to what the same job would be in his/her own country- otherwise what would be the motivation to go to the inconvenience? You can't count on staffing based simply on finding enough fully-qualified people who happen to want to move and live here by chance, at disadvantageous wages.

On the issue of what a teacher NEEDS to make- I don't doubt that someone like Toptuan is doing fine, and I'm sure that he knows what he is doing (by his own reckoning, saving 20K a month- not bad at all!). However, someone over 30 who is not independently wealthy and can't save or invest at least a bit of money every month is asking for long-term trouble, and few of the lower-tier jobs in Thailand allow for that- never mind family costs, insurance, property and so on.

I'm not saying that the lower-paid jobs don't work, or can't support a healthy person in a normal lifestyle in the present- but for most non-retirees, they don't make sense in the long term without very careful planning and saving.

[Scott]

I have over the years worked with many, many Filipinos. Personally, I hold them in high regard. Most (but not all) were qualified teachers. They had a Bachelor's degree and a very high percentage had an education degree. Many had passed the Philippines Licensure Examination. They passed an English language proficiency test in Thailand before being licensed here.

In general, they were high quality teachers, although they were not native speakers. They quickly adapted to the demands of the Thai administration and the Foreign administration. There English was certainly on par with many of their non-native speaking European counterparts.

Overall, I found them to be quite reliable and good teachers.

[Firelily]

> if you want someone with full qualifications from a native English-speaking country to come and do the job here, you will have to make the pay at least equitable to what the same job would be in his/her own country- otherwise what would be the motivation to go to the inconvenience?

If the living expenses are about a third of what you would have to spend in western Europe, then why should the salary be the same as back home? Salaries should not just be converted to raw figures using google, it is their purchasing power that counts.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Did anyone notice in the OP that the recruiter said by using them the school would be saving 3k per month or 12k per term... BUT, they mentioned nothing about the annual saving (logically 12 * 3k) which is an even greater saving and hence an even "sexier sell" to a potential client....why not?

Because recruiters don't pay teachers for holidays. They only pay 8 months a year. teachers beware.

I personally know a bunch of foreign teachers employed in Lampang, via a Bkk agency, who are paid more like 35k per month, but only for 8 months. They get 4 months salary for the first term, then no salary for the month of half term, then 4 months salary and nothing for 3 months. They sign 4 month contracts at a time.

The recruiter paying the teachers 30k per month is paying 240k per year, averaged out to just 20k per month over 12 months!

In terms of the question, are you happy on 30k? I'd personally be 5k happier than I currently am... In the provincial schools, both private and govt, I know about 30 teachers, not one of them earns more than 30k per month from their day job.

People talking about equity, savings, future savings etc... should try and appreciate that a lot of the young(ish) people teaching here are doing so precisely because we were sick to death with living in a society that respected nothing except material wealth and did little but try to enslave people to live in constant fear/dread that they "didn't have enough".

I say BOLL_oCKS to that message/fear mongering and enjoy your life whilst you are able to... and if that means earning ten times less than you previously earned living a sh_itty life back in the west, then fair play to you.

Cheers

[LazySlipper]

Dear Jim thai fox.

I presume you have not been in thailand for too long. Used to be that 40k a month jobs were a lot more advertised 8 years ago than today.

I was used to 50k a month for the last 6 years but made bad choices and paid for them.

The plot here is that there are some people trying to gain control of the teacher market and in doing so bringing down the salaries.

You talk about being fed up with materialistic values back home... woaaaaa are you kidding me??? are you in Thailand now? If Thailand is not materialistic hel_l then I got it all wrong.

The youngish, like you say, usually come to party for a couple of years and either settle down or go back home to enjoy their 'materialistic' so called culture when they get back.

The youngish quite often don't have the qualifications needed to work in a kennel back home but get off the boat here and take a job that otherwise qualified people would and for a better salary. Not to mention probably more serious work ethics.

The salaries are going to go down even further.

Did any of you see the job advertised on Aj for a lecturer at Shinawatra Uni?

15.000bht with a doctorate or master's in education!!!

Salaries are going to go DOWN some more... I am just sitting and watching...

[Ijustwannateach]

> if you want someone with full qualifications from a native English-speaking country to come and do the job here, you will have to make the pay at least equitable to what the same job would be in his/her own country- otherwise what would be the motivation to go to the inconvenience?

If the living expenses are about a third of what you would have to spend in western Europe, then why should the salary be the same as back home? Salaries should not just be converted to raw figures using google, it is their purchasing power that counts.

I said 'equitable,' not equal- and I meant equitable with HOME conditions (or again, what's the attraction? in fact, they should be slightly better than equitable to cover the financial and social costs of moving). Proper insurance, pensions, and other social nets from back home are not present here, and arguably they are not usually granted in the 30K jobs and cannot be covered by a 30K salary even under the best conditions, especially if a family is involved.

[Ijustwannateach]

Dear Jim thai fox.

I presume you have not been in thailand for too long. Used to be that 40k a month jobs were a lot more advertised 8 years ago than today.

I was used to 50k a month for the last 6 years but made bad choices and paid for them.

The plot here is that there are some people trying to gain control of the teacher market and in doing so bringing down the salaries.

You talk about being fed up with materialistic values back home... woaaaaa are you kidding me??? are you in Thailand now? If Thailand is not materialistic hel_l then I got it all wrong.

The youngish, like you say, usually come to party for a couple of years and either settle down or go back home to enjoy their 'materialistic' so called culture when they get back.

The youngish quite often don't have the qualifications needed to work in a kennel back home but get off the boat here and take a job that otherwise qualified people would and for a better salary. Not to mention probably more serious work ethics.

The salaries are going to go down even further.

Did any of you see the job advertised on Aj for a lecturer at Shinawatra Uni?

15.000bht with a doctorate or master's in education!!!

Salaries are going to go DOWN some more... I am just sitting and watching...

Salaries at unis are historically low because of the 'grey professor' syndrome.

I don't think any conspiracy theories really hold true here, but I do think that the non-native, non-Thai speakers of English are having an effect.

At the higher end, at schools which try or do compete with the internationals, salaries are going up because of the lack of qualified applicants.

[Firelily]

Thanks for clarifying equal vs equitable.

So, the reason why native speakers need to put up with salaries of 30k is.... the presence of people like me.... the obnoxious non-native teacher. Good point, I will keep it in mind for future reference. I'll just need to find out what the natives on equal or slightly less salary than mine think about it. In the meantime, should I throw away my degree in education or may I keep it?

[BlackArtemis]

No, we have to deal with lower salaries because the agencies are moving in and messing up the system while making a profit, as well as schools just offering less in general and people accepting those jobs. The result of this is less native teachers willing to work in Thailand and those positions open up to non-native speakers. It has nothing to do with anyone's ability, not matter race.

[Ijustwannateach]

Firelily: I didn't intend to say anything perjorative about non-native speakers (who *are* typically better-qualified on paper at least, especially for subject teaching), but it is an economic fact that you are not in the same market. Your market happens to overlap in terms of price with lower-qualified native speakers, so there is some reason there for resentment on both sides, I suppose.

I haven't seen the recent effects of agencies, BlackArtemis- it is awhile since I had dealings with them- have they become so much more influential now? (Maybe I should check out the listings myself- has been awhile since I looked).

[Scott]

In the end, a lot of schools will pay what they have to. It's a variant of the market economy. In the microcosm where I work, the starting salary for teachers has ranged from a low of 30,000 to a high of 45,000 for a new teacher. This has depended on the number of applicants and availability (as well as a few other variables). In the recent past, there have been more applicants for jobs. I am guessing that this is part of the economic conditions in Western countries.

Most western countries have a shortage of qualified teachers and so these people do not have to come to Thailand to work. The BA degree in Philosophy, however, doesn't fare so well in their home country--what's the joke: What are the first words spoken by a Philosophy major after graduation: "Would you like fries with that Coke." I am not having a dig any major, but for those which don't prepare you for a career path, the job market isn't good. Right now, there are plenty of applicants with Bachelor's degrees in Psychology, Business etc.. But very few with Education degrees.

Thailand won't pay until it has to. Right now, it doesn't have to.

[thunder30101]

The sky isnt falling as fast as you say lazyslipper maybe you should read that ad a little closer before you try to scare people, it says at least 15k for part time and full time, not 15k for ft with a doctorate or masters degree. Scott is right in that there is an abundance of teachers availible right now so yes like any business that has the advantage they are going to offer lower wages, wouldnt you if it was your business and the economy was down ?

[mizzi39]

Never worked with Filipinos. I take it that most of them are like most Thai teachers of English: willing to work for under 20K; teach 24 crappy lessons a week; harp on about grammar but don't speak English well; and do whatever the administrators want. Am I wrong?

You can't be serious PB. I work with many qualified Filipinos, and most teach maths and science.

It is not a question of "willing" to work for under 20K, since that is what's being offered, so they take what they can get.

Thailand doesn't have workers unions, and unless hel_l is about to freeze, you will never see them here, so the people with the money call the shots. Maybe I'm wrong?

BTW: Funny thread. No one is ever "happy" with their salary. Pay a person $40,000 per year, and he feels he deserves $50,000. Pay a teacher 30,000 baht and that teacher deserves 60,000 baht. Someone who makes 30,000 baht per month may be able to budget, while the person making 60,000- is blowing it on hedonistic activities and western food. It's all relative.

[BlackArtemis]

I was happy making 25k in CM for 2 years experience. I had a BA in Family psych. Now I am getting a BSED Biology and the goal is an international school, a lofty goal, but you always got to aim for the best right?

[MisterBeetle]

THis is from my own experience teaching in Thailand.

I worked as a Teacher in Thailand for around 2 years (some in Bangkok) The best I was ever paid was around 40,000 a month).

I now have a wife and 1 month old baby girl and could'nt possibly get by for anything less than 50,000 baht.

My wife is not working.

We have a house we are paying off around 20,000 baht per month.

Car repayments- 12,000

Food- 5,000-6,000

baby supplies- ??? seems to always be too much!!!

+ everything else?

30,000 was JUST do-able when I was single and not really thinking of the future.

I could work 5 days and then travel on the weekend a bit.

Maybe afford to buy a ticket home at the end of my contract.

Most schools will only pay 30-35,000 baht for a native speaker.

The only way you could possibly make enough to support a family would be to supplement it with tutoring/private teaching.

[LazySlipper]

"Shinawatra University

Pathumthani (Thailand)

At least 15,000 Baht/month

Send Resume

Full Time English lecturer

Full-time / Part-time Lecturer - Teaching English (Beginning: April 2010)

pay-scale is regionally competitive. The successful applicants will work in an international environment in a research-oriented university.

- PhD or Master Degree in Teaching English as a Second Language or related fields

- Native English speaker

- Experience in teaching and as IELTS examiner is a plus"

Saying that I am a believer in conspiracy is a bit of a conspiracy, isn't it? 555

The usual salaries in Unis is 23k +5k housing. Been there done that.

The fact that the salaries are going down is due to the indubitable fact that the jobs are being filled for 30k.

Seems to me that anyone who disagrees with me on the fact that the slaries are topping off at 30k it is because you have not been following the job advert market to closely.

Just as the private teaching is going so is the mainstream of teaching. People on Craigslist are advertising teaching privatley for 150bht an hour.

Any__who I still enjoy reading this forum. It is a hellava lot more refreshing than the other one!

Good luck in finding a good paying job in the next month or so...

[troehr]

THis is from my own experience teaching in Thailand.

I worked as a Teacher in Thailand for around 2 years (some in Bangkok) The best I was ever paid was around 40,000 a month).

I now have a wife and 1 month old baby girl and could'nt possibly get by for anything less than 50,000 baht.

My wife is not working.

We have a house we are paying off around 20,000 baht per month.

Car repayments- 12,000

Food- 5,000-6,000

baby supplies- ??? seems to always be too much!!!

+ everything else?

30,000 was JUST do-able when I was single and not really thinking of the future.

I could work 5 days and then travel on the weekend a bit.

Maybe afford to buy a ticket home at the end of my contract.

Most schools will only pay 30-35,000 baht for a native speaker.

The only way you could possibly make enough to support a family would be to supplement it with tutoring/private teaching.

You need 50,000 because you chose a big house and an expensive car. Those are choices you made. Live in a reasonable house and buy a used car and you needs go way down.

I make 30k here and usually save close to 10k every month. But I do not drink, chase the women, eat western food, or have a large house. I do live in Isaan now, but I was doing the same when I was in Bangkok. Live in a Thai neighborhood a little further away from the BTS or MRT and it is easy.

Tim