There has been some heated discusson of whether Thai people are "hard working" or not. Of course we all know that this is highly variable from person to person and that every culture has some hard working motivated people and some who enjoy life in other ways. I'm wanting to know if people think that the work ethic is part of the Thai culture. By "work ethic" I mean the idea that it is good or virtuous to work hard or diligently to obtain a goal and also that goals requiring work are more noble than those that do not.

Personally, I think that Thais see hard work as an indication of a sort of failure or lack of ability. I think that Thais believe that a successful or capably person does not have to work hard and is a sign of their superiourity. The higher you are in the social structure the less work you need to do.

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks

Base on my 5 years stayed here in Thailand and work with Thai Company as R&D Staff, I observed quitely numbers of our workers are in shape to work hard and willing to be trained and eager to learn something more but majority were not able to handle responsibility.. They prefer not to learn more because the more you learn, the more know, the more you know then the more your job. They probably hate this. They just would like to work, go home and enjoy the life as is even not much money in their hand. "Easy go lucky" and of course some workers are very smart since they got small wage so they work only base on that.

Probably you don't beleived, our company offer them a free basic AUTOCAD training but only one worker eager to learn and stay without any overtime pay coz the training scheduled after work. Its an oppurtunity to learn and upgrade their self but seems not so interesting.

I don't know whats wrong with them. anyway, its only my observation actually, I can't blame them for what work ethic they had. I just would like to share my experience and observation with Thai worker.

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

agree

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

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I appreciate your concern about this. So far one really good post with no bashing. It is not my intent to bash Thai people or anyone else.

Base on my 5 years stayed here in Thailand and work with Thai Company as R&D Staff, I observed quitely numbers of our workers are in shape to work hard and willing to be trained and eager to learn something more but majority were not able to handle responsibility.. They prefer not to learn more because the more you learn, the more know, the more you know then the more your job. They probably hate this. They just would like to work, go home and enjoy the life as is even not much money in their hand. "Easy go lucky" and of course some workers are very smart since they got small wage so they work only base on that.

Probably you don't beleived, our company offer them a free basic AUTOCAD training but only one worker eager to learn and stay without any overtime pay coz the training scheduled after work. Its an oppurtunity to learn and upgrade their self but seems not so interesting.  

I don't know whats wrong with them. anyway, its only my observation actually, I can't blame them for what work ethic they had. I just would like to share my experience and observation with Thai worker.

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Thanks for the non-bashing post. I guess the fact that most of your workers decided to pass on the free training would support my idea that the work ethic is not very active in Thailand. Of course we should not take this one example of proof of anything....its just a bit of evidence to help us understand a bit more. It would be great to get some Thai input on this....

Personally, I think that Thais see hard work as an indication of a sort of failure or lack of ability. I think that Thais believe that a successful or capably person does not have to work hard and is a sign of their superiourity. The higher you are in the social structure the less work you need to do.

That's bashing, in my book, when you group all Thais together and make negative value judgements about them as a group.

Try looking at people as individuals.

Base on my 5 years stayed here in Thailand and work with Thai Company as R&D Staff, I observed quitely numbers of our workers are in shape to work hard and willing to be trained and eager to learn something more but majority were not able to handle responsibility.. They prefer not to learn more because the more you learn, the more know, the more you know then the more your job. They probably hate this. They just would like to work, go home and enjoy the life as is even not much money in their hand. "Easy go lucky" and of course some workers are very smart since they got small wage so they work only base on that.

Probably you don't beleived, our company offer them a free basic AUTOCAD training but only one worker eager to learn and stay without any overtime pay coz the training scheduled after work. Its an oppurtunity to learn and upgrade their self but seems not so interesting.  

I don't know whats wrong with them. anyway, its only my observation actually, I can't blame them for what work ethic they had. I just would like to share my experience and observation with Thai worker.

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Thanks for the non-bashing post. I guess the fact that most of your workers decided to pass on the free training would support my idea that the work ethic is not very active in Thailand. Of course we should not take this one example of proof of anything....its just a bit of evidence to help us understand a bit more. It would be great to get some Thai input on this....

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Agree for that.

i have worked with Thai's for 5 years, i find some to be hard working, some to be lazy, some have good days and bad days, some yearn for more responseability, some are happy to do their job and go home, some learn after work in tjier own time using their own money, some won't even take a free course in their lunchtime, bit like the people back home really

I do like working with Thai's though, nice working atmostphere in the office

Thais are often criticized by foreigners for being lazy, but there are so many who work very hard for low wages and put up with a lot of bureaucracy. As a teacher in a Thai school, I see this five days a week. The Thai staff are driven to the point of exhaustion and yet will put up with it perhaps out of fear of losing their jobs. In some schools (not mine) the management will try to push this same workload onto the foreign teachers only to lose them with little or no notice at the end of the month (after payment is collected of course.

Max Weber, the early sociologist, is best known for coining the term "Protestant work ethic." He deduced that the countries of northern Europe were more industrious than those of (predominantly Catholic) southern Europe. Of course, that was long ago, and it wasn't perfectly true. But it is generally understood that cultures can have differing attitudes and behavior toward work. Of course, there are always exceptional individuals, positively or negatively.

North-western Europe and its colonies have stressed individualism over collectivism. It is only recent that socialism has taken hold in some of those countries, and that isn't the same thing. There is a theological basis for it (Calvinism).

The Protestant work ethic has many faults. It can lead to a de-emphasis on community and family. It can lead to work-aholics.

Cultures don't change in 20 years just because they get telephones and flush toilets. Thailand is probably still operating, culturally and socially, as it did 50 years ago.

Lots of Thais work very hard, and support their extended families. In a small town, community values override individual values. As Bob Dylan wrote, "The times, they are a'changin' - the old order is rapidly fading."

In secondary schools, students in Thailand work together, but by Western standards, this collaboration looks like 'cheating.' They probably have good work cooperation skills, but slightly less initative to succeed well above the herd. I seriously doubt that Thai students are being prepared to work effectively in the global marketplace of the 21st century.

Personally, I think that Thais see hard work as an indication of a sort of failure or lack of ability. I think that Thais believe that a successful or capably person does not have to work hard and is a sign of their superiourity. The higher you are in the social structure the less work you need to do.

That's bashing, in my book, when you group all Thais together and make negative value judgements about them as a group.

Try looking at people as individuals.

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I do not think that I have made a negative value judgement about Thais as a group. I think I have described what I have seen as an expresson of a Thai cultural value. It is not negative...I don't think people are bad if they think this because I don't buy into the work ethic. I don't judge people by how much work they do. Some people are disabled and incapable of work but I don't think they are bad becaue they don't work. Work is an option in life not the meaning of life.

I'll give an example of the work ethic in action. I'll use Bill Gates the founder of Microsoft. I'm not interested in how much money he made or how successful he has been. I want to talk about him as an expression of the work ethic. When he was starting up his company he worked 16 hours per day or more for years. He did this gladly. He couldn't stop himself. His family and co-workers felt that his willingness to do hard work was an indication of his worth as a person. They feel that it is good and noble to work hard to accomplish a goal. Working hard, they feel, is the mark of a superiour person.

I do not find anything like this in Thailand. I think that the work ethic is not part of Thai culture. What I see in Thailand is that the result is more important than the amount of work done. If you are successful and make alot of money in Thailand it makes no difference if you worked at all to do it. You have succeeded and that is the mark of a superior person. If you work really hard in Thailand and fail people laugh at you because you are seen as a bit stupid to have worked so hard for nothing. Working is seen as something the poor have to do....no one really values the work, they value the result.

Anyway this is what I see. I don't think of it as being negative....its just what I've seen. I think Thailand is a better place because people are not caught up in the work ethic. I'm posting here because I know that I will only see a small part of Thailand and Thai people in my life and I want to extend my knowledge by asking other people what they have experienced.

I was simply quoting your words, which clearly state exactly what I said. It wasn't meant as a flame, truly. Just a reflection of your words, and my feeling about that.

"I think that Thais.." The whole bunch

And then the negative value judgments, or are you suggesting a good side to these judgements? It sounded only negative, to me, covering anyone who is Thai. If you look at other responses carefully, I hope you'll see the difference...

Sorry if I offended, but that kind of 'talk' of "all Thais think/do/are/aren't..." leads down a path of racism and bigotry, I feel. We all know that people are individuals and not everyone follows the same drummer. Insert the name of your own country into some of those judgements. Fair? Reasonable? True?... It's so easy to fall into, because it helps us to come to grips sometimes with things that are new, or that we don't understand. And it's so easy to misenterpret a Thai situation at times, isn't it? I've sure been confused plenty of times here and tried, often in vain, to make some sense from it all.

Anyway, my answer to the question would be the same as most others. Mostly okay, a few great, a number not so great.... I suppose many would say the same about me

Edited May 14, 200521 yr by Ajarn

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Oh for God's sake, what self-rightous slobbering. To live is to make value judgements based on experience, and without exception, all such value judgements are by definition generalizations. Now Mr.Goodie-Two-Shoes here is all a twitter because someone's experience has led him to conclude something about Thais that, on the whole, is not entirely positive and he has shared his experience and his conclusion with us.

If someone had said that Thais were nice people by and large, would this twit have attacked him for generalizing? No, of course not. But when the value judgement made by someone else is negative, even arguably, he decides to sound off just to let us know what a fine, non-judgemental white guy he is.

Oh, give me a break.......

Edited May 14, 200521 yr by OldAsiaHand

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Oh for God's sake, what self-rightous slobbering. To live is to make value judgements based on experience, and without exception, all such value judgements are by definition generalizations. Now Mr.Goodie-Two-Shoes here is all a twitter because someone's experience has led him to conclude something about Thais that, on the whole, is not entirely positive and he has shared his experience and his conclusion with us.

If someone had said that Thais were nice people by and large, would this twit have attacked him for generalizing? No, of course not. But when the value judgement made by someone else is negative, even arguably, he decides to sound off just to let us know what a fine, non-judgemental white guy he is.

Oh, give me a break.......

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Break.

I was simply quoting your words, which clearly state exactly what I said. It wasn't meant as a flame, truly. Just a reflection of your words, and my feeling about that.

"I think that Thais.."  The whole bunch

And then the negative value judgments, or are you suggesting a good side to these judgements? It sounded only negative, to me, covering anyone who is Thai. If you look at other responses carefully, I hope you'll see the difference...

Sorry if I offended, but that kind of 'talk' of "all Thais think/do/are/aren't..." leads down a path of racism and bigotry, I feel. We all know that people are individuals and not everyone follows the same drummer. Insert the name of your own country into some of those judgements. Fair? Reasonable? True?... It's so easy to fall into, because it helps us to come to grips sometimes with things that are new, or that we don't understand. And it's so easy to misenterpret a Thai situation at times, isn't it? I've sure been confused plenty of times here and tried, often in vain, to make some sense from it all.

Anyway, my answer to the question would be the same as most others. Mostly okay, a few great, a number not so great.... I suppose many would say the same about me 

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Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to make it clearer when I'm talking about a Thai cultural trait and when I'm talking about individuals. I wasn't trying to say that all Thais have this attitude. I agree with you completely that it is inappropriate to lump all Thais into a group and then to give it some attribute. I'm glad you have stated this because I truly don't want people to think that this is what I meant.

You indicated that you thought that I was offended by your comment. I was not offended in the least....no reason to be....you were not abusive...you stated your feelings clearly and now we can communicate and come toa better understanding. I want to be sure that I understand your attitude. Are you saying that you think it is speaking negatively of someone if you say that they see hard work as a sort of failure and lack of ability?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Oh for God's sake, what self-rightous slobbering. To live is to make value judgements based on experience, and without exception, all such value judgements are by definition generalizations. Now Mr.Goodie-Two-Shoes here is all a twitter because someone's experience has led him to conclude something about Thais that, on the whole, is not entirely positive and he has shared his experience and his conclusion with us.

If someone had said that Thais were nice people by and large, would this twit have attacked him for generalizing? No, of course not. But when the value judgement made by someone else is negative, even arguably, he decides to sound off just to let us know what a fine, non-judgemental white guy he is.

Oh, give me a break.......

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Sweet Jesus, OAH, get a grip on reality. It's about "value judgements about them as a group" = racism.

Though I think you knew that, didn't you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Oh for God's sake, what self-rightous slobbering. To live is to make value judgements based on experience, and without exception, all such value judgements are by definition generalizations. Now Mr.Goodie-Two-Shoes here is all a twitter because someone's experience has led him to conclude something about Thais that, on the whole, is not entirely positive and he has shared his experience and his conclusion with us.

If someone had said that Thais were nice people by and large, would this twit have attacked him for generalizing? No, of course not. But when the value judgement made by someone else is negative, even arguably, he decides to sound off just to let us know what a fine, non-judgemental white guy he is.

Oh, give me a break.......

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Someone didn't say "Thais were nice people by and large". It's the "by and large" that's conspicuous by its absence. Never mind whether the comment is positive or negative, it's still sensible to include the qualification - e.g. "in my experience". IMHO, it's not enough for it to be just implied as you suggest.

Before you jump to disagree with that, try substituting "blacks" or "jews" for "Thais" in the original post. Still think the same? Up to you............

I have recently interviewed many Thai candidates for a reasonably high paid technical position. Many quite good, but what struck me was their seeming.. nay obvious... reluctance to take personal responsibility for future technical training.

It seemed they really wanted to be spoon fed with some course to learn or nothing at all. When I mentioned taking personal responsibility like using on-line resources or even reading books <shudder> their eyes became f^%^$$ raincoat buttons. Well, in my field, there is no training for a lot of this stuff in TH, and candidates MUST be willing to upgrade and extend their skills as a matter of course (no pun).

It just suprised me!

Take that for what it's worth.

I was simply quoting your words, which clearly state exactly what I said. It wasn't meant as a flame, truly. Just a reflection of your words, and my feeling about that.

"I think that Thais.."  The whole bunch

And then the negative value judgments, or are you suggesting a good side to these judgements? It sounded only negative, to me, covering anyone who is Thai. If you look at other responses carefully, I hope you'll see the difference...

Sorry if I offended, but that kind of 'talk' of "all Thais think/do/are/aren't..." leads down a path of racism and bigotry, I feel. We all know that people are individuals and not everyone follows the same drummer. Insert the name of your own country into some of those judgements. Fair? Reasonable? True?... It's so easy to fall into, because it helps us to come to grips sometimes with things that are new, or that we don't understand. And it's so easy to misenterpret a Thai situation at times, isn't it? I've sure been confused plenty of times here and tried, often in vain, to make some sense from it all.

Anyway, my answer to the question would be the same as most others. Mostly okay, a few great, a number not so great.... I suppose many would say the same about me 

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Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to make it clearer when I'm talking about a Thai cultural trait and when I'm talking about individuals. I wasn't trying to say that all Thais have this attitude. I agree with you completely that it is inappropriate to lump all Thais into a group and then to give it some attribute. I'm glad you have stated this because I truly don't want people to think that this is what I meant.

You indicated that you thought that I was offended by your comment. I was not offended in the least....no reason to be....you were not abusive...you stated your feelings clearly and now we can communicate and come toa better understanding. I want to be sure that I understand your attitude. Are you saying that you think it is speaking negatively of someone if you say that they see hard work as a sort of failure and lack of ability?

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Thanks for your patience with me. I was concerned my slightly anal post might have pissed you off. Appreciate the understanding... It's tough to show passion here without sounding over the edge, sometimes

As for negative value judgements, I have them, too. It is needed to protect yourself, as someone else said. I have had similar feelings about some of my workers, too. I can't know for sure, obviously, but I sense it could be true...

My only real issue was extrapolating limited experiences to include all Thais. Your later explanation made it clear you are seeking balance. My sense of that balance is to look only at individuals, for I can never see everyone, and know...

I'm all for thinking twice here. Such a crazy and unpredictable place, na'?. Though I've lived here a fair amount of time, as I mentioned in another thread, I know there is sooo much I don't understand here, and the best I can ever hope for is to understand some individual Thais , to some degree. The rest will always be hazy and confusing. Thais come from all directions around us, and they bring their own values and beliefs with them. Mix them together and you have a mish-mash of cultures, with some overlaps likely. So, to me, it's a tough call when thinking in terms of generalities about Thai culture. Everything seems like yes and no. I guess I'm straddling the fence with my feet planted firmly on both sides of the issues

i've known Thai software engineers take the MSCE exams in thier own time with their own money, i really think its up to individual

i've known Thai software engineers take the MSCE exams in thier own time with their own money, i really think its up to individual

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I'm agree1

Hej Chownah,

You are very good at asking people’s opinions on others and asking for specific examples to justify these views.

I wonder could you enlighten us a little about yourself, not because I wish to flame you – life is to short for that – but because it allows us not to make any false valued judgements about your motives for posting?

Just a little about your age, your education, your nationality, length of time spent in LOS, what you do for a living – would suffice.

Thank you.

i've known Thai software engineers take the MSCE exams in thier own time with their own money, i really think its up to individual

I'm agree1

Nothing wrong with trying to understand the culture that your living in. But in doing so, need to remember 1) cultures are complex, not simple and 2) individuals within the same culture vary.

That being said, I've had 25 years experience with Thais as employees, as friends, and as co-workers. My impression is that they do have a work ethic, and do consider working hard as a positive trait. However, the Thai work ethic unlike its western counterpart expects work to be fun and does not apply in situations where working hard equals misery. Thais are quite creative at finding ways to make work fun wherever possible, and a smart employer will understand and facilitate this. Also, Thais work best together and do not like to be alone; again, a smart employer will accept this and allow for adjustments to workplans accordingly. Lastly, the work ethic coexits with a number of other ethics of equal or greater importance to Thais...such as fitting in with the group, not losing face, and personal loyalties. As a supervisor I found it important to know the group dynamic and work with it rather than ignoring it or trying to butt up against it. It was also crucial to nurture a personal bond with staff. A sense of personal loyalty to me based on our relationship led them to work very, very hard under difficult and sometiomes dangerous conditions. Work ethic alone wouldn't have done that. Thais view their jobs in a personal manner. Its not just what you are supposed to do, but who you are doing it for and how you feel about them that determines the level of effort.

The responsibility thing has to do not with responsibility as we understand it but with concerns for group harmony, not antagonizing others by seeming to try to stand out, and not acting above one's station. Position in Thai society is made up of a lot more than job title...it also involves age, family, etc. To ask someone to take on a position that puts them above someone older or higher social status than they puts them in a very awkward bind. Lastly, Thai society is built around rote rules and people know exactly what they can expect when they act according to them, liek a well choreographed ballet. Asking someone to take on something unfamiliar or new -- or inconsistent with their established place in the group -- puts them in a risky position where they aren't sure what will happen. I found that if one understands all this and talks supportively and empatheticaly with Thais about how they feel, these concerns can be expressed and addressed together. Last but very important: Thai culture does not distinguish between " professional" and " personal"; it is all personal and when foreign bosses or coworkers attempt to disregard the personal element it is seen as cold and unkind. (Same in the Philippines). They expect to be seen as whole people and treated as such, and to have their personal concerns given as much weight as purely work-related concerns.

Of course, like any comment on any culture, these are generalizations and individuals within the culture will vary enormously. And the " elite" of the country are a whole nother ballgame entirely. Fortunately they aren't typical of most Thais.

i've known Thai software engineers take the MSCE exams in thier own time with their own money, i really think its up to individual

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm agree1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing wrong with trying to understand the culture that your living in. But in doing so, need to remember 1) cultures are complex, not simple and 2) individuals within the same culture vary.

That being said, I've had 25 years experience with Thais as employees, as friends, and as co-workers. My impression is that they do have a work ethic, and do consider working hard as a positive trait. However, the Thai work ethic unlike its western counterpart expects work to be fun and does not apply in situations where working hard equals misery. Thais are quite creative at finding ways to make work fun wherever possible, and a smart employer will understand and facilitate this. Also, Thais work best together and do not like to be alone; again, a smart employer will accept this and allow for adjustments to workplans accordingly. Lastly, the work ethic coexits with a number of other ethics of equal or greater importance to Thais...such as fitting in with the group, not losing face, and personal loyalties. As a supervisor I found it important to know the group dynamic and work with it rather than ignoring it or trying to butt up against it. It was also crucial to nurture a personal bond with staff. A sense of personal loyalty to me based on our relationship led them to work very, very hard under difficult and sometiomes dangerous conditions. Work ethic alone wouldn't have done that. Thais view their jobs in a personal manner. Its not just what you are supposed to do, but who you are doing it for and how you feel about them that determines the level of effort.

The responsibility thing has to do not with responsibility as we understand it but with concerns for group harmony, not antagonizing others by seeming to try to stand out, and not acting above one's station. Position in Thai society is made up of a lot more than job title...it also involves age, family, etc. To ask someone to take on a position that puts them above someone older or higher social status than they puts them in a very awkward bind. Lastly, Thai society is built around rote rules and people know exactly what they can expect when they act according to them, liek a well choreographed ballet. Asking someone to take on something unfamiliar or new -- or inconsistent with their established place in the group -- puts them in a risky position where they aren't sure what will happen. I found that if one understands all this and talks supportively and empatheticaly with Thais about how they feel, these concerns can be expressed and addressed together. Last but very important: Thai culture does not distinguish between " professional" and " personal"; it is all personal and when foreign bosses or coworkers attempt to disregard the personal element it is seen as cold and unkind. (Same in the Philippines). They expect to be seen as whole people and treated as such, and to have their personal concerns given as much weight as purely work-related concerns.

Of course, like any comment on any culture, these are generalizations and individuals within the culture will vary enormously. And the " elite" of the country are a whole nother ballgame entirely. Fortunately they aren't typical of most Thais.

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Thanks Sheryl, great post. I'm going to keep what you've said in mind and see if it changes my view of what I see around me.

Hej Chownah,

You are very good at asking people’s opinions on others and asking for specific examples to justify these views.

I wonder could you enlighten us a little about yourself, not because I wish to flame you – life is to short for that – but because it allows us not to make any false valued judgements about your motives for posting?

Just a little about your age, your education, your nationality, length of time spent in LOS, what you do for a living – would suffice.

Thank you.

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My name "chownah" will tell you about what I am doing in Thailand. I'm as old as I feel, some days 18 some days 90. My education is ongoing and will never be finished until I'm finished. I'm a citizen of the world. I've been in Thaland for a while, one day at a time. My heart beats for a living. The rest you'll have to glean from what I post.

Hej Chownah,

You are very good at asking people’s opinions on others and asking for specific examples to justify these views.

I wonder could you enlighten us a little about yourself, not because I wish to flame you – life is to short for that – but because it allows us not to make any false valued judgements about your motives for posting?

Just a little about your age, your education, your nationality, length of time spent in LOS, what you do for a living – would suffice.

Thank you.

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Perhaps its George Bush trying to ascertain whether Thailand is worth invading.

I dont know about office work, but my staff work very hard. In fact most people I know here work hard usually 7 days a week. My brother-in-law lives for days in his lorry and only gets home now and again. Obviously most of the people I'm talking about are self employed. I'm not sure how they would cope with a "9 till 5 " job. My best mate works for MTEC as an enginere. He often works extra unpaid and only makes it home about once or twice a month.

Saying that there are quite a few people around here with very good qualifications who have never really utilised them as life here can be very "sababi" without the need to work a regular job.

Oh BTW nice post Sheryl

There has been some heated discusson of whether Thai people are "hard working" or not.  Of course we all know that this is highly variable from person to person and that every culture has some hard working motivated people and some who enjoy life in other ways.  I'm wanting to know if people think that the work ethic is part of the Thai culture.  By "work ethic" I mean the idea that it is good or virtuous to work hard or diligently to obtain a goal and also that goals requiring work are more noble than those that do not.

Personally, I think that Thais see hard work as an indication of a sort of failure or lack of ability.  I think that Thais believe that a successful or capably person does not have to work hard and is a sign of their superiourity.  The higher you are in the social structure the less work you need to do.

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yes they are bone idle ! but its more to do with the fact they feel they are not being paid a huge amount of money to do a task. they want a lot for a little work.

many want to work abroad in Taiwan or Korea as they think they are getting better pay , but in reality they are being screwed by agents .and come home with little money.

many would rather lie in a hammock with a bottle of Singha than work.

Its the same with hookers ,if the money is not large they would sooner starve than go for less money than they feel they should get .

Hej Chownah,

You are very good at asking people’s opinions on others and asking for specific examples to justify these views.

I wonder could you enlighten us a little about yourself, not because I wish to flame you – life is to short for that – but because it allows us not to make any false valued judgements about your motives for posting?

Just a little about your age, your education, your nationality, length of time spent in LOS, what you do for a living – would suffice.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My name "chownah" will tell you about what I am doing in Thailand. I'm as old as I feel, some days 18 some days 90. My education is ongoing and will never be finished until I'm finished. I'm a citizen of the world. I've been in Thaland for a while, one day at a time. My heart beats for a living. The rest you'll have to glean from what I post.

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Touché.

But batten down the hatches.