The Work Ethic In Thailand

[ozzydom]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLease notice that he did not use the word "every" anywhere in his post. These are your words and clearly indicate that you don't think its valid to try to ascribe some characteristic to EVERY member of any natinality. Your point is well taken but please why the theatrics on your part. It is not needed. I think his point is well taken too although it does seem that he is taking a few cases of things he ore she has personally seen and making a judgement about a group. Most people understand this already without the theatrics. I'm not trying to ruin your style of posting, I'm just trying to avoid getting into a flame war. It would be very easy for a flame war to erupt here because this topic is a sensitive one. Actually I have seen Thais turn down offers of employment if they didn't like the offer, be it low pay or unpleasant conditions. The first time I saw this I was surprised to say the least. My thoughts were that if I had as little money as they had I would be working every chance I got. Upon further reflection I realized that what I was taking as a lack of ambition was actually just a case of them being really self sufficient in their life style and being able to live quite happily without feeling tied to a job. HOOOOORAY for them!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my opinions are based on getting work done on my house and local observations.

i have tried and offered good money to locals who sit around on their asses all day to do odd jobs .

even if i offer them way over the market rates to do some painting or plumbing or gardening they are not interested .

the carpenter is ok he works ok but the others are bone idle .

one guy never works but sits around all day while his wife and kids are hardup , i have been told his wife rents out her genitalia once in a while .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps because you are the sort of person that repeats stupid hearsay like

"been told his wife rents out her genitalia once in a while" is the reason they wont work for you, I BLOODY WOULDNT EITHER.

[patricktan]

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with it too

[The Phoenix]

I'm wanting to know if people think that the work ethic is part of the Thai culture.  By "work ethic" I mean the idea that it is good or virtuous to work hard or diligently to obtain a goal and also that goals requiring work are more noble than those that do not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not know whether it is part of their culture but they sure can work hard and diligently.

In what country would people accept to change their working week from Monday to Saturday, to Saturday to Thursday in order to take adavantage of lower electricity rates during the week end, without asking for any compensation?

Or accept to work on Thai New Year without any problem because we were late for some deliveries to important customers ?

And I have plenty of other examples but well, you get the point, I guess.

Edited May 17, 2005 by The Phoenix

[chownah]

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with it too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I have just gone back and looked at all of the posts and I think that there was actually very little that clearly would count as Thai bashing.....or even flaming in general. The flaming was pretty much evenly split between people who thought that posts over generalized an unwillingness to work and by people who thought that the same posts were not trying to generalize but simply to communicate specific observations about Thais working habits.

It seems clear from these posts that some Thais work very hard....as hard as anyone anywhere. It is also clear that some Thais are lazy...as lazy as anyone anywhere. I'm not surprised by this result.....but.....it is not really the question I wanted answered. My question is about how a culture values the work, not how much work the people do. Meadish-sweetball made the post that most clearly showed understanding of this when he wrote, "I would say the general work ethic IS different in that hard work is not raised up as the end-all and be-all of human existance,........." This is the thing I was interested in finding out. Meadish-sweetball's comment is a good approximation of how I feel about this. Thais don't raise work up and give it value independent of the intrinsic value it creates...in general...my opinion......and to me this means that the ethics surrounding work found in Thai culture are not the same as the western work ethic. Again I want to stress...this doe not mean that ALL Thais don't like to work or that they can't or won't work hard. It is a seperate issue and frankly I think that Thais are better off that most of them don't have an overly active work ethic(my opinion).

As the originator I request that this topic be closed.

[Thomas_Merton]

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with it too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

It seems clear from these posts that some Thais work very hard....as hard as anyone anywhere. It is also clear that some Thais are lazy...as lazy as anyone anywhere. I'm not surprised by this result.....but.....it is not really the question I wanted answered. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are interesting conclusions from a forum, the membership of which, many have chosen to spend so much time in Thailand, simply because they do not have to work.

[bambob]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLease notice that he did not use the word "every" anywhere in his post. These are your words and clearly indicate that you don't think its valid to try to ascribe some characteristic to EVERY member of any natinality. Your point is well taken but please why the theatrics on your part. It is not needed. I think his point is well taken too although it does seem that he is taking a few cases of things he ore she has personally seen and making a judgement about a group. Most people understand this already without the theatrics. I'm not trying to ruin your style of posting, I'm just trying to avoid getting into a flame war. It would be very easy for a flame war to erupt here because this topic is a sensitive one. Actually I have seen Thais turn down offers of employment if they didn't like the offer, be it low pay or unpleasant conditions. The first time I saw this I was surprised to say the least. My thoughts were that if I had as little money as they had I would be working every chance I got. Upon further reflection I realized that what I was taking as a lack of ambition was actually just a case of them being really self sufficient in their life style and being able to live quite happily without feeling tied to a job. HOOOOORAY for them!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my opinions are based on getting work done on my house and local observations.

i have tried and offered good money to locals who sit around on their asses all day to do odd jobs .

even if i offer them way over the market rates to do some painting or plumbing or gardening they are not interested .

the carpenter is ok he works ok but the others are bone idle .

one guy never works but sits around all day while his wife and kids are hardup , i have been told his wife rents out her genitalia once in a while .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps because you are the sort of person that repeats stupid hearsay like

"been told his wife rents out her genitalia once in a while" is the reason they wont work for you, I BLOODY WOULDNT EITHER.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

more than one person has told me she shags blokes to earn money , a teacher said she was seen in a field with a thai bloke doing her from behind in broad daylight.

in fact all my neighbours are shagging around . the wives & the husbands they are all at it . i have been propositioned by several of them wives to go to a hotel for the night.

but declined to get involved.

[Steve2UK]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLease notice that he did not use the word "every" anywhere in his post. These are your words and clearly indicate that you don't think its valid to try to ascribe some characteristic to EVERY member of any natinality. Your point is well taken but please why the theatrics on your part. It is not needed. I think his point is well taken too although it does seem that he is taking a few cases of things he ore she has personally seen and making a judgement about a group. Most people understand this already without the theatrics. I'm not trying to ruin your style of posting, I'm just trying to avoid getting into a flame war. It would be very easy for a flame war to erupt here because this topic is a sensitive one. Actually I have seen Thais turn down offers of employment if they didn't like the offer, be it low pay or unpleasant conditions. The first time I saw this I was surprised to say the least. My thoughts were that if I had as little money as they had I would be working every chance I got. Upon further reflection I realized that what I was taking as a lack of ambition was actually just a case of them being really self sufficient in their life style and being able to live quite happily without feeling tied to a job. HOOOOORAY for them!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, chownah - isn't that just semantics? As he phrases it, I really think he's clearly generalising about guys in the west on the one hand and Thai's on the other. To draw attention to that, I paraphrased it for brevity and to highlight what I believe to be the wild generalisation of what he said. I could have gone on to say that what he said was by definition racist - but I wanted to keep the post short and others have already made the point about similar posts. Come to that - I put my comments as questions.

You'll see that I posted earlier appealing for people to self-moderate what they were saying (given the sensitivity of the subject) and make a point of qualifying it by including something to the effect that their view was based on only their personal experience. Then it's not racist, IMHO.

At the risk of getting pedantic, I don't see any theatrics in my post. Granted, I don't usually use exclamation marks in anything I write - but I made an exception this time because it expressed the sentiment.

I see that you've called for the thread to be closed down now. Personally, I think it's proving very useful because it's a lively debate and nearly all the posts raise points worth thinking about. Nothing wrong with that. Equally - nothing wrong in a vigorous response that isn't just a personal assault on another poster - which, to me, is just flaming and I'm agin it. I guess that wading through the flames that do occur is just a price that has to be paid for the value of the other ideas-based posts.

By the way, I echo the second part of what you say; like you, I've learnt that lesson about (some) Thai people that I've met - and I'm looking forward to applying it to myself. I think it does call for and repay more reflection on our part.

[mnoorsapl]

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with it too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

It seems clear from these posts that some Thais work very hard....as hard as anyone anywhere. It is also clear that some Thais are lazy...as lazy as anyone anywhere. I'm not surprised by this result.....but.....it is not really the question I wanted answered. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are interesting conclusions from a forum, the membership of which, many have chosen to spend so much time in Thailand, simply because they do not have to work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You work, you got money. You got no money, you find work.

[Ajarn]

Another thread to bash Thais?

No, thanks 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with it too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

It seems clear from these posts that some Thais work very hard....as hard as anyone anywhere. It is also clear that some Thais are lazy...as lazy as anyone anywhere. I'm not surprised by this result.....but.....it is not really the question I wanted answered. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are interesting conclusions from a forum, the membership of which, many have chosen to spend so much time in Thailand, simply because they do not have to work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas, I completely fail to your point, even after reading it a few times. I see sarcasm, I think, but fail to see your 'message'. Can you spell out your opinion, please?

[Ajarn]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLease notice that he did not use the word "every" anywhere in his post. These are your words and clearly indicate that you don't think its valid to try to ascribe some characteristic to EVERY member of any natinality. Your point is well taken but please why the theatrics on your part. It is not needed. I think his point is well taken too although it does seem that he is taking a few cases of things he ore she has personally seen and making a judgement about a group. Most people understand this already without the theatrics. I'm not trying to ruin your style of posting, I'm just trying to avoid getting into a flame war. It would be very easy for a flame war to erupt here because this topic is a sensitive one. Actually I have seen Thais turn down offers of employment if they didn't like the offer, be it low pay or unpleasant conditions. The first time I saw this I was surprised to say the least. My thoughts were that if I had as little money as they had I would be working every chance I got. Upon further reflection I realized that what I was taking as a lack of ambition was actually just a case of them being really self sufficient in their life style and being able to live quite happily without feeling tied to a job. HOOOOORAY for them!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, chownah - isn't that just semantics? As he phrases it, I really think he's clearly generalising about guys in the west on the one hand and Thai's on the other. To draw attention to that, I paraphrased it for brevity and to highlight what I believe to be the wild generalisation of what he said. I could have gone on to say that what he said was by definition racist - but I wanted to keep the post short and others have already made the point about similar posts. Come to that - I put my comments as questions.

You'll see that I posted earlier appealing for people to self-moderate what they were saying (given the sensitivity of the subject) and make a point of qualifying it by including something to the effect that their view was based on only their personal experience. Then it's not racist, IMHO.

At the risk of getting pedantic, I don't see any theatrics in my post. Granted, I don't usually use exclamation marks in anything I write - but I made an exception this time because it expressed the sentiment.

I see that you've called for the thread to be closed down now. Personally, I think it's proving very useful because it's a lively debate and nearly all the posts raise points worth thinking about. Nothing wrong with that. Equally - nothing wrong in a vigorous response that isn't just a personal assault on another poster - which, to me, is just flaming and I'm agin it. I guess that wading through the flames that do occur is just a price that has to be paid for the value of the other ideas-based posts.

By the way, I echo the second part of what you say; like you, I've learnt that lesson about (some) Thai people that I've met - and I'm looking forward to applying it to myself. I think it does call for and repay more reflection on our part.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Steve, good points, and reasonable suggestions in order to stay on track. Even so, some will always want to extrapolate their limited experiences to say that all or most Thais are the same way... Human Nature, I suppose

[wamberal]

My experience of managing people in Thailand is a bit out of date, so bear with me.

The Thai word for "work" and the word for "party" is the same, so I have been told.

Historically Thai people are used to working hard and cooperatively, especially at planting and harvest time. The attitudes displayed at such times of hard work were thought to be very important in maintaining social cohesion......and the work itself was meant to be as enjoyable as possible. A prospective son-in-law would be closely observed to see whether had the right attitudes towards work during difficult chores.

This might help to explain attitudes towards work in Thailand which are different to attitudes elsewhere. Work should preferably be shared, and it should be enjoyable, to get maximum participation and output. And your attitude towards it and your fellow workers are very important (perhaps superficially, at the appearance level only, as elsewhere in aspects of Thai culture).

I also spent some years in Hong Kong, where the work ethic is renowned for being overwhelmingly strong. However, Hong Kong people, just like Westerners, will do what they have to, and nothing more. "What they have to" could be an awful lot, of course, if they perceive that the bonus or the promotion is based on doing an awful lot. Otherwise, they will coast, just like anybody else.

[Ajarn]

Btw the way, the term 'Work Ethic' is a shortened version of the original term, 'Protestant Work Ethic'. As such, it would seem to make sense that many Thais might not have it

work ethic

· n. another term for Protestant ethic.

Protestant ethic (also Protestant work ethic)

· n. the view that a person’s duty and responsibility is to achieve success through hard work and thrift.

Given that very regimented-sounding, and precise dogma, I guess I wouldn't agree with the pro-Work Ethic bunch much, either

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas, I completely fail to your point, even after reading it a few times. I see sarcasm, I think, but fail to see your 'message'. Can you spell out your opinion, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I am trying to say is this:

Reaching any conclusions on the work ethic of Thai people on the basis of opinions gleaned from Thiavisa is at the very least spurious, given the nature of Forum Thaivisa's membership.

Because many of Thaivisa’s members are living off a pension, or other “unearned” sources of income, or are on extended holidays, or are in LOS because they have found out the little money they have stretches a long way. There are even those who have acquired money through – I am trying to be fair here – “suspect” ways. Some are in Thailand simply because they do not want to work.

I am fully aware there are members who live and work here. I have the greatest respect for those who contribute to the Thai economy by their own work and any jobs they create as a consequence. Although how many who are stationed in LOS are paid by Thai standards is also a mute point.

So, IMHO, asking members of Forum Thaivisa to comment on Thai work ethics, risks answers and conclusions, very similar in quality to the ones achieved when asking turkeys to give an opinion on Christmas.

[Ajarn]

Because many of Thaivisa’s members are living off a pension, or other “unearned” sources of income, or are on extended holidays, or are in LOS because they have found out the little money they have stretches a long way. There are even those who have acquired money through – I am trying to be fair here – “suspect” ways. Some are in Thailand simply because they do not want to work.

I certainly agree, but, so what? I hear the negative angle, but can't see any connection to the question at hand.... Nor with the 'employed' praragraph that followed.

So, IMHO, asking members of Forum Thaivisa to comment on Thai work ethics, risks answers and conclusions, very similar in quality to the ones achieved when asking turkeys to give an opinion on Christmas.

Totally agree. It seemed more, to me, like someone seeking confirmation of their own opinions/judgements. I always seek confirmation of my opinions, too, whenever I can, but like you, I would take any 'Thai' advice from non-Thais with a huge grain of salt, obviously.

And I would hope it would be obvious to most others, too, but I have my doubts about many here, frankly.... A combination of the contents of Pandora's Box, and Noah's Ark, this place is

Edited May 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[Jai Dee]

.... A combination of the contents of Pandora's Box, and Noah's Ark, this place is

You are of course referring to Thai Visa hey Ajarn?

[thedude]

Here i am surfing away on TV, waiting for the tea lady to bring afternoon refreshments and maybe some cup cakes from that popular american coffee place across the street while my Thai staff are typing away furiously on their word processors trying to meet my tightly scheduled report deadline....mwahh hahahaha, i don't think they will make it, and there will be ###### to pay. what good fortune to have landed this cushy post in the far east i say old chap.

actually i have a theory related to a culture's propensity for hard work, i think it has something to do with the amount of warm weather, soil fertility, availability and access to water and easily pliable building resources such as timber. basically, there is an inverse relationship between the abundance of said conditions, and a culture's tendency toward hard work. therefore, one can draw general conclusions on the relative state of advancement of say, northern vs southern european cultures, and also, northern vs southern asian cultures. in some cases, one may even observe differences between peoples of a same nation, northern and southen italy and france, for instance, or northern and southern india, arguably. speaking very generally of course.

[Ajarn]

.... A combination of the contents of Pandora's Box, and Noah's Ark, this place is

You are of course referring to Thai Visa hey Ajarn?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could there have been any doubt?

[Egon]

In some previous replies in this thread it was argued Thais would never do anything that would set them apart from the group, they were afraid of taking personal initiative and would work hard according to whether they liked their employer or not.

This is symptomatic of a society that has made a very rapid jump from a peasant style society to an industrial or post-industrial way of life. Other European cultures also had a relatively short transition period from a peasant lifestyle to an industrial world. The Scandinavian countries, for example, virtually went from being peasants to being industrial workers enjoying a very prosperous lifestyle. As this societal change coincided with the growth of democracy it meant that the Scandinavian countries became welfare states led by Social Democrats. It was the peasant mentalities of the Scandinavians that developed this special model. Peasant attitudes are still presnt in Scandinavian such as contempt for anyone who stands out too much and a desire to drag down people who have become to big for their own boots. Britain and America had a longer transition process towards becoming industrial nations which is why individualism and aggressive competition are more prevalent in these countries.

[Guest endure]

What I am trying to say is this:

Reaching any conclusions on the work ethic of Thai people on the basis of opinions gleaned from Thiavisa is at the very least spurious, given the nature of Forum Thaivisa's membership.

Because many of Thaivisa’s members are living off a pension, or other “unearned” sources of income, or are on extended holidays, or are in LOS because they have found out the little money they have stretches a long way. There are even those who have acquired money through – I am trying to be fair here – “suspect” ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pensions aren't unearned income, they're delayed income. They've still been worked for.