Fathers Rights On Thai Child

[markdav13s]

Hi there everyone, I hope some one can help.

I had a Thai wife and we had a child together. we built a house together had a car and all that stuff , usual story, her and her mother decided to finance the lot with out me knowing, and cars been reposed as they havent made payments.

she then decided that i wasnt giving her enough finances (6,000 baht a week) so she went off to phuket to do what they do down there, as all this is going on i am working away as a teacher just coming back on the weekends. when i found out she was in phuket we got a divorce.

in the divorce we were asked who will be the guardian of my son and she wanted her mother to be it (grandmother)

which they obviously said it had to be one of us and I said i will be as i plan on taking him to england in the future. so that was settled so the lady at the umper office wrote on the divorce forms that i would be his guardian but he would stay with the mother and i would pay every month 4000 baht.

but the grandmother has been taking care of him while she works the bars of phuket. and staying with the grandmother the only education he gets is to be sat infront of the t.v everyday.

ever since then i have had him with me every weekend and paid my money. now i have a new girlfriend who adores my son and he loves her. so now that the school has broken up for the summer we have brought him here to stay with us and we have decided to keep him. anyway he has been here for a week now and his mothers sister called up today asking where he was. i said he is with me.

she replied by saying that tomorrow she was coming up to take him from me. she says my ex wife is in talks with a lawyer (which i dont believe) and he will be in contact soon. and that she saw me with my girlfriend and they dont want him around her. if i take care of him alone i can have him but if i have a lady help me then they will take him from me. These are really thick people that i am dealing with.

i told her he is not going, and her reply was to say that she will make many problems for me.

both me and my girlfriend are teachers here and we have already arranged for him to start nursery wher she works after songkran so we will have no proplems taking care of him, also my girlfriend is pregnant so it will be nice for him to be around his future brother or sister.

can anyone tell me where i stand on this can they come tomorrow and take him. and am i allowed to take care of him myself.

Thanks in advance for any help.

also does anybody have a name of a good lawyer in the korat area.

[Mario2008]

Moved to the family section.

[Mario2008]

Your position is unclear, as it first needs to be determined if you have joined custody or sole custody over the child. You probably have shared custody over the child, with the child officaily staying with you.

As it is I would first visit the amphur on Tuesday and find out if you have sole custody or joined custody. I it is sole custody, you alone decide where the child lives. If it is joined custody, you decide that with the mother.

In both cases I would not give in to the mother and cetainly not to her sister. If she wishes to arrange for something else, she will have to go to court. But if she doesn't take care of the child herself and you are willing to do that you have a stronger case than her. When you think it will be a court battle, start gathering evidence of all the good things tou do for your child and the negatve things about the mother. Also make advanced plans for the child schooling, etc. In essence, document that you take good care of the child, were as the mother is always absent.

For a lawyer i advice to contact isaanlawyers/thailaw online. They have a very good reputation regarding family law. They also wrote a nice article about child custody, which you might find interesting: http://www.thailawonline.com/en/custody-of...bangkok-pattaya

[markdav13s]

thanks for your reply.

on the divorce paper it says i have custody but he will stay with the mother. even though she has not seen him since that day.

[Slaps]

Normal fast response from Mario

Thanks for the link

[anon345535]

first things first. tell the sister to <deleted> off. the cheek of thai people never ceases to amaze me!

why would their lawyer be contacting you? surely they would make contact with you through the courts. sounds like the usual uneducated thai bs to me...

[noise]

thanks for your reply.

on the divorce paper it says i have custody but he will stay with the mother. even though she has not seen him since that day.

From my literal view point, if the papers say he will stay with the mother, it sounds as if you have joint custody. You did not mention that the papers added that you have complete decision making authority for the child.

Hopefully you have a copy of the current papers in case some one brings the police with them to take the child back. You will need something to show you do have legal custody.

In the meantime, you should probably have the custody papers amended to have you designated as the sole custodian. You seem to have sufficient grounds: child not staying with the mother as agreed to, her occupation, grandparents really not capable of taking care of small child, etc., etc.

[niveknedwob]

Maybe you should consider not having any more kids, with any more ladies, until you know what it takes to actually look after them in Thailand ... and the potential problems when relationships don't work. Even in Thailand you can <deleted> without the danger of causing pregnancy you know.

[anon345535]

niveknedwob offers some good advice. i would hate to be in your position if this new relationship fails as well.

without knowing the in's and out's of your current custody "agreement" it's difficult to offer advice but for peace of mind i would suggest consulting a lawyer. it won't be cheap but peace of mind regarding your child's future/safety is imo priceless... you should do this whether your ex has sought legal advice or not and push for the child to stay with you long term.

Edited February 28, 2010 by c411um

[phuketrichard]

Check your papers and see if you have joint or dual custody. If its dual get a lawyer and go back to court and have PROOF she is working bars ( a pic will do it) then make sure you have a good living arrnagment with your GF and they will most likely give you Sole custody,.

The family courts in Thailand truly look at the best interest of the child.

[markdav13s]

thanks everybody for your advice, i will arrange to see a lawyer tomorrow. i had a message from the sister saying thats its none of her busines anymore ( not that it ever was) and when my sons mother returns from phuket she will come and take him for a few day do you think it wise for me to alow her to take him as i would be worried she will take him to phuket and not return him.

also if i do have sole custody can i have papers drawn up so she cant just take him?

[anon345535]

thanks everybody for your advice, i will arrange to see a lawyer tomorrow. i had a message from the sister saying thats its none of her busines anymore ( not that it ever was) and when my sons mother returns from phuket she will come and take him for a few day do you think it wise for me to alow her to take him as i would be worried she will take him to phuket and not return him.

also if i do have sole custody can i have papers drawn up so she cant just take him?

if you have sole custody you won't need to have papers drawn up as she won't be able to do this anyway. if you have shared custody she can still take him away which will require a court order to return him. or so i am lead to believe...

my advice would be... if you let her see your son, make sure you supervise the visit. of course she won't like this but you'd rather have her angry than her taking your son away.

does she know where you live? if not, don't tell her and let the courts sort it all out one way or another. if she uses threats of police blah blah blah let her do so. don't make it easy for her as she won't make it easy for you. she probably has no intention of caring for your son herself but just want's to take him from you, which is not in the best interests of the child. a court should realize this...

Edited February 28, 2010 by c411um

[Mario2008]

thanks everybody for your advice, i will arrange to see a lawyer tomorrow. i had a message from the sister saying thats its none of her busines anymore ( not that it ever was) and when my sons mother returns from phuket she will come and take him for a few day do you think it wise for me to alow her to take him as i would be worried she will take him to phuket and not return him.

also if i do have sole custody can i have papers drawn up so she cant just take him?

If you ahve sole custody, you decide where the child lives, nobody else. Ofcourse you ahve to honour agreements/court orers on visitation rights etc.

The amphur can tell you if you have sole or shared custody.

[markdav13s]

on the divorce paper it says that I am the parent but he will be taken care of by the mother so does me being the parent mean that I have sole custody?

[anon345535]

if anything it would mean that SHE has sole custody!

[Mario2008]

on the divorce paper it says that I am the parent but he will be taken care of by the mother so does me being the parent mean that I have sole custody?

It probably means you have shared custody and you have agreed that the child will live with his mother.

[elektrified]

Maybe you should consider not having any more kids, with any more ladies, until you know what it takes to actually look after them in Thailand ... and the potential problems when relationships don't work. Even in Thailand you can <deleted> without the danger of causing pregnancy you know.

Although I sympathize with the OP I have to agree with the above post. It seems rather irresponsible the way you live your life.

[phuketrichard]

on the divorce paper it says that I am the parent but he will be taken care of by the mother so does me being the parent mean that I have sole custody?

Doesen't mean anything. YOur already the parent by having ur name on the BC. Get a lawyer and take her to court, They will arrange a sit down and you will pay her what she wants, then go to court and then you will get sole custody, She obviously does not want the child

[MikeyIdea]

OK, sorry to say but this is not the way I would have done things. You have been a bit irresponsible when it comes to your child. Good thing is that you still have time to fix it although it can now only be done if you and the mother agree or you take the thing to court

You need to clarify one thing: Did you ever legally register the marriage? If you did, then “on the divorce paper it says i have custody but he will stay with the mother” in effect means that you have shared custody but mother can decide where child lives… You do however have a good opportunity to correct that now – The child has not been staying with the mother, she has been staying with someone who has no right to the child, the grand mother. The father doesn’t have to accept that. That is good grounds for a court to accept to change the custody agreement so that the child stays with you = you decide where the child lives, both parents still have shared custody. You could go on and demand sole custody on the grounds of abandonment, whatever etc but why? The important thing is that you decide where child lives. Remember that it gets more difficult to change the longer you allow the child to stay with the grand mother. Don’t miss this opportunity, you’ll never get a better one!

If you didn’t legally register the marriage and you didn’t legitimize your child separately by going to the amphur and request a bai rapp long bott (child, you and the mother must agree – child should be approx 7 years old – this varies though), then you are legally on very soft ground. In that case you have not legitimized your child and the custody agreement was written based on section 1566 (6) without that. In Supreme Court judgement 7473/2537 the court completely ignored a custody agreement based on section 1566 (6) because the father never formally legitimized the child – That means mother got sole custody…You can find that information in this link http://www.thailawonline.com/en/custody-of...bangkok-pattaya

One correction to an earlier poster to make: In Thailand you are not the legal parent and you do not have custody if you have not legitimized your child. The birth certificate carries no legal weight what-so-ever in regards to custody in Thailand. There are 3 ways to become legal father, get custody and have the right to see your own child; being named as father on the birth certificate is not one of them. That can also be confirmed in the above link. I do agree with the rest the poster says, especially this: The family courts in Thailand truly look at the best interest of the child.

“can anyone tell me where i stand on this can they come tomorrow and take him.”

Can *they* come? No, but the mother actually can. You yourself (were stupid enough) to sign the paper saying that the child stays with the mother. So IF the child really stays with the mother, can you complain? Currently No. You must have valid grounds to request to change a custody agreement that you happily signed yourself. You do have real grounds to believe that the mother will take the child back to stay with the grand mother again and you are in your full rights to sue her to avoid that happening. It’s currently not legal for you to stop the mother from taking the child back with her if she wants that.

“am i allowed to take care of him myself.” Yes, but how much is up to the mother because you yourself gave her that right

A few other things:

Tough but the truth is that you currently take care of the child and you can because of that simply take the issue to court where you live. The mother has to come to where you and the child are. You as father with shared custody can take the child from anyone but the mother and you can also refuse to give the child back to the grand mother or the sister. Only one who can demand the child from you is the mother.

“also if i do have sole custody can i have papers drawn up so she cant just take him?” Go to the amphur with the child and his birth certificate (or possibly a copy), the divorce agreement and your passport and ask if you have por kor 11 (form that state shared custody) or por kor 14 (form that state sole custody). I bet you have shared custody. If you really have sole custody, then you can demand the child also from the mother.

Getting sole custody is not easy and should not be easy to get. You need solid evidence that the mother is dangerous or bad for the child. Mother working as a prostitute doesn’t necessarily make her that – I think it makes it easier for you to get a better deal though. I myself am of the opinion that it should be presented to the judges if it does go to court. Presented very carefully and only as – father worry about the bad influence of the mother, the bad and loud behaviour of the mothers friends, the father worry about all the different men coming close to his child… Ouch, that bites. Is more really needed?

A video of the mother working in a loud bar is good evidence and should turn the cards in the fathers favour, up to a limit. A father who wants to reduce the mother and her friends influence on the child would get the judges support for that, sole custody, not enough I think. Case by case basis, could backfire too. Why not show the video for the mother, she will think that she will lose her child for sure, offer her that you want sole custody and she will get visitation rights and you will not take it to court and she may very well agree. Why go to court and lose face too? Negotiation is always the best solution of course

“”when my sons mother returns from phuket she will come and take him for a few day do you think it wise for me to alow her to take him as i would be worried she will take him to phuket and not return him.”

I would never allow the mother to take my child if I worried that she wouldn’t return her, never! I would make sure that I had filed the court case before the mother comes and then never leave them alone even one single minute. If I hadn’t filed the court case, then I would stay away for the few days it would take to do it

If you live in Korat then IsaanLawyers would be able to help