Why Bother With Tefl?

[ice1318]

Having read endlessly through posts on the Teachers Licence

requirement or Licence Waiver I am left asking myself why bother

with a TEFL (to include TEFL, TESOL, CELTA,ecetera...)

I always thought that (assuming you don't have a B Ed) a combination

of TEFL together with Degree and to all intents and purposes you would

be approved for a Work Permit.

That is the way TEFLs are marketed by the multi national corporate

TEFL providers "...complete our course and your teaching job will follow".

Seemingly not so. For TEFL now read TL.

Now it may well be that the Authorities will look more favourably upon

a Work Permit application if you have a TEFL but if that is written down

somewhere I haven't seen it. Could be that I'm wrong on this.

What I find most frustrating is that the TEFL providers are silent on

the issue.Why? They are aware of the TL development and the potential

damage it is doing to their market. They are multi million pound businesses.

They will from time to time employ/engage lobbyists and will be "in the know".

Always accepting that this isn't their country and they need to conduct

themselves diplomatically but if there is definite value to the Thai MoE in an

applicant holding a TEFL can they please come forward and say so whilst

at the same time being specific.

There must be TEFL co-ordinators out there who could offer a comment.

[PeaceBlondie]

A TEFL certification doesn't guarantee you a job. Or a work permit. Or a TL.

It's a 4-week course that teaches you how to teach EFL.

[BlackArtemis]

I found mine a bit useful, but severely lacking in many areas. I think it was more of a confidence builder if anything. If you already have experience of any sort I don't think it's worth the money. But learning how to write a lesson plan and learning how to handle yourself in front of a classroom really helps some who dive in head first.

I used to think they were a huge waste of money, but others here pointed out the good in them.

[Scott]

I am involved in hiring people and I used to pay no attention to a TEFL. In the last 5 years or so, those with a TEFL have proven themselves to be GENERALLY much more adept in the classroom. I can pretty much turn them lose with a list of names and the book and they will hit the ground running. Non-TEFLers, with lots of exceptions, need more assistance in figuring out what to do and how to do it.

At a minimum, I view people who have taken the TEFL as people who are at least committed to the idea of teaching. It is like a training course and it won't hurt you.

As far as the Teacher's License goes, I don't believe it helps. As far as some employers operate; it helps.

[lonexpat]

I'd say a well run 6 week 5 day a week TEFL course with outside practical is far more beneficial than a degree in any non-teaching discipline. For someone to ask why bother when they know nothing at all about standing in front a class is an incredible statement to make.

It certainly will help anyone to grasp the basics of what they should be doing. The problem with it is, that it's primarily based on teaching adult classes of around ten or so I've been told by instructors. It needs a drastic overhaul to include a curriculum to aid the student in preparing for large classes of children where most of the bread and butter teaching is based here.

At the local international school which is a proper outfit with only extremely highly qualified teaching staff, they are all still expected to take a TEFL training course in the first year.

[PeaceBlondie]

... The problem with it is, that it's primarily based on teaching adult classes of around ten or so I've been told by instructors. It needs a drastic overhaul to include a curriculum to aid the student in preparing for large classes of children where most of the bread and butter teaching is based here.

At the local international school which is a proper outfit with only extremely highly qualified teaching staff, they are all still expected to take a TEFL training course in the first year.

The major fault with a CELTA Course. And by contrast, the major advantage of non-CELTA courses. IMHO.

[KhaoNiaw]

CELTA doesn't need an overhaul in that direction. It is a very good course and does exactly what it says on the tin. If someone wants a qualification for teaching kids then they should take one.

[jdinasia]

As an employer I will not hire someone with limited or no experience unless they have a TEFL certificate from a program I can do a little research into.

Online certificate -- and no experience?---- I won't even give you an interview. My time is worth more than that!

TEFL from outside of Thailand? and no experience? --- no interview.

Experienced (verifiable!) gets preference over a TEFL cert if the experience is in Thailand.

TEFL from a reliable program in Thailand and no experience will at least get you an interview.

The TL isn't an issue for me so I haven't worried about it.

[SeanMoran]

As an employer I will not hire someone with limited or no experience unless they have a TEFL certificate from a program I can do a little research into.

Online certificate -- and no experience?---- I won't even give you an interview. My time is worth more than that!

TEFL from outside of Thailand? and no experience? --- no interview.

Experienced (verifiable!) gets preference over a TEFL cert if the experience is in Thailand.

TEFL from a reliable program in Thailand and no experience will at least get you an interview.

The TL isn't an issue for me so I haven't worried about it.

That's nice to hear after all these years, but all the experience in the World means nothing to the MoE. All they want is the paperwork.

How many miles is it from your campus to the border? Once upon a time it was possible to commit every fourth weekend to a border run and be back in time on the Sunday afternoon to plan the lessons for the coming week, but three weekends a month off were about the least requisite to preserve one's sanity, and as you can tell by me, even three weeks isn't always sufficient. Without the MoE, border runs every two weeks will inevitably result in crazy teachers.

[jdinasia]

The MoEd has nothing to do with who I hire and get WP's for at this time ... so ... not accurate for me or my employees.

[SeanMoran]

The MoEd has nothing to do with who I hire and get WP's for at this time ... so ... not accurate for me or my employees.

I wish I'd known you five years ago. Everyone of the seven different employers I've worked for over the past five years here, has been unable to obtain a WP based on experience. I don't understand why they'd utilise such a 'cart-before-horse' mentality, but that's how it is, and it must certainly keep them occupied with turnover rates and the required paperwork.

[jdinasia]

SM --- you have been repeatedly told that the MoEd does not issue WP's (Ministry of Labour does). The majority of the people I hire and obtain WP's for do not require a Teacher's License.

You do not need a degree to get a WP ...etc etc etc. There may be other reasons that nobody has gone to the effort to employ you legally (including such things as they don't know how, they don't care to be bothered, they don't want you etc etc).

[Neeranam]

As an employer I will not hire someone with limited or no experience unless they have a TEFL certificate from a program I can do a little research into.

Online certificate -- and no experience?---- I won't even give you an interview. My time is worth more than that!

TEFL from outside of Thailand? and no experience? --- no interview.

Experienced (verifiable!) gets preference over a TEFL cert if the experience is in Thailand.

TEFL from a reliable program in Thailand and no experience will at least get you an interview.

The TL isn't an issue for me so I haven't worried about it.

When I have hired teachers, I paid no attention to those TEFL courses done in Thailand, unless they were CELTA.

There is no comparison with CELTA or Trinity and the TEFL courses in Thailand.

If anyone is serious about being an English teacher and not just wanting something to do whilst in thailand, they will do a proper CELTA or Trinity course which will enable them to work anywhere in the world.

[SeanMoran]

SM --- you have been repeatedly told that the MoEd does not issue WP's (Ministry of Labour does). The majority of the people I hire and obtain WP's for do not require a Teacher's License.

You do not need a degree to get a WP ...etc etc etc. There may be other reasons that nobody has gone to the effort to employ you legally (including such things as they don't know how, they don't care to be bothered, they don't want you etc etc).

Fair enough. I tend to just lump the MoL and MoE into the one government item for the sake of argument. I'm not Raymond A. Murphy by any means, but I'm a good enough teacher to handle blackboard/fan classrooms and Mattayom 3 adolescents on pepsi highs or cell-phone expolrations, except maybe most of the schools don't know how. I was mistaken earlier, as it was actually four agencies/ schools and seven schools, but not seven employers, but if you wonder why I've turned to drink, it's possiblyh slightly related to the fact that a teacher with twelve (then) years of experience got thrown to the dogs by the MoE because he didn't have a blessed TEFL, and I am led to believe that the MoE have the say over the MoL or the MoI or whatever, so that's why I'm so bitter and twisted now with regards the profession of English teaching in Thailand.

I learned my lesson.

[jdinasia]

As an employer I will not hire someone with limited or no experience unless they have a TEFL certificate from a program I can do a little research into.

Online certificate -- and no experience?---- I won't even give you an interview. My time is worth more than that!

TEFL from outside of Thailand? and no experience? --- no interview.

Experienced (verifiable!) gets preference over a TEFL cert if the experience is in Thailand.

TEFL from a reliable program in Thailand and no experience will at least get you an interview.

The TL isn't an issue for me so I haven't worried about it.

When I have hired teachers, I paid no attention to those TEFL courses done in Thailand, unless they were CELTA.

There is no comparison with CELTA or Trinity and the TEFL courses in Thailand.

If anyone is serious about being an English teacher and not just wanting something to do whilst in thailand, they will do a proper CELTA or Trinity course which will enable them to work anywhere in the world.

Neeranam ---

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the CELTA as I would much rather have someone that had a TEFL awarded here in Thailand! I need people that can work with adults and kids and understand the language issues particularto HERE and not Japan.

SM---

I thought your issue was the lack of a degree. If it was only the lack of a TEFL then there really isn't any excuse for you not to have gone on and gotten one. If you had experience but no credentials theen it isn't really fair to blame people here for enforcing the rule that teachers have at least some basic credentials is it?

[Atmos]

TEFL from a reliable program in Thailand and no experience will at least get you an interview.

Hi

Reliable?

Unsure if anyone here can answer, but:

I've heard absolute horror stories from people attending TEFL training here, yet the schools continue to issue their 'MoE authorised/registered' certificates, no one complains in case it jeopardises their employment prospects ie no reference from school, and who would admit they'd paid their 40k or whatever for poor training?

Once registered with MoE as a TEFL training provider, is there any regular monitoring of a language school's practices, or is a it a 'licence for life'?

thanks

[troehr]

When I first arrived here, I took a TEFL course in Bangkok. I learned a lot of valuable lessons in that course. I learned how to plan lessons. I learned what it is like to be in front of actual students. I learned about the particular problems in teaching ESL to Thai students. I found it to be very valuable.

The other advantage came when I went to find a job. I had my degree and I had a TEFL. It helped to have something to show them. They question I as always asked was about experience. Mine was all in the sales and training sector. The first place I went to threw me immediately into a classroom to teach after a twenty minute interview. I would have been in big trouble without having taken the course. I used a lesson plan I had already prepared and more importantly already taught to students. Halfway through the class I was stopped and asked what I was teaching from. I showed them my plan and my materials I had ready, just in case I had to teach a sample class. I was offered a job on the spot.

I interviewed at five schools and had to give a lesson at three of them. The TEFL course gave me great confidence to do the lessons. It also really helps you in the interviews because you can actually answer questions in a meaningful way. Three of the schools offered me a job.

As an aside, the school I took the TEFL also tried very hard to hire me. So this is another way to get a job after your TEFL. And you have the advantage of what is a four or six week interview.

To me it was money well spent. But your mileage may vary.

Tim

[PeaceBlondie]

I took a Text-n-Talk course in Chiang Mai that taught me how to teach a huge class of Thai teenagers - which CELTA doesn't teach. Hired after my first demo class and was on payroll that day.

[Ijustwannateach]

When I first started teaching abroad WAAAAY WAAAAY long ago in a galaxy far away, I did a TEFL course with my first employer (disclaimer: not in Thailand). It was certainly the best orientation for the purpose at the time, and although most of what was really useful came on the job, I wouldn't have been able to start off on the right foot quite so well if I hadn't had some of that training.

It is mainly useful for the FIRST job, but invaluable for that. I don't really mention it anymore unless someone asks, because my resume otherwise speaks for itself.

I think even an experienced and licensed teacher-in-his/her-own-country needs some assistance getting used to classes where most of the students don't actually speak nearly any of the teacher's language....

[mizzi39]

I took a TEFL from Text and Talk in Bangkok about a month after my arrival. I had a very positive experience.Our group consisted of 12 people, and we were all very supportive of each other. We also had a very good instructor too.

Although a TEFL is not a requirement to teach in Thailand it does have its benefits, developing lesson plans, and classroom management were a plus.

When I got my first job, I was asked to produce my degree, then my director asked if I had a TEFL which I was able to produce. I might have gotten hired minus the TEFL, but it was nice to have that document since it was requested by my employer.

[bow]

They are not all the same. TEFL courses can be very good, good, average, bad or very bad.

Unfortunately, I paid 40.000 baht for a very bad course. But I did get a very grand looking, and very useful, piece of paper.

[BlackArtemis]

I made the mistake of doing mine in Phuket. While the teachers were more than competent, I quickly realized I was studying with people who had little to no interest in teaching, but rather find a way to support their drinking, drugging, and whoring habits while in Thailand.

[ice1318]

Apologies lonexpat!

I did not ask the question wishing in any way to disparage the TEFL qualification. I have already taught in Thailand and I do have a TEFL qualification. I know that to many people it can be of great assistance in providing a grounding as to how to teach and to provide a confidence boost when getting started.

The question was meant to ask whether the Thai Authorities (MoE / MoL) give any credit for having a TEFL.

The answer seems to vary region by region.

However, if you hold a TL ( together with degree) then Nationwide you are guaranteed a WP.

Should people therefore be looking to obtain a TL rather than a TEFL is they want to guarantee themselves a WP.

I note that no one from a TEFL organisation has taken the opportunity to contribute !!

[SEETEFL]

I note that no one from a TEFL organisation has taken the opportunity to contribute !!

It's normally best to let people make up their own minds by reading comments from teachers rather than organizations. This is why I haven't commented until now.

A TEFL certificate won't directly help you obtain a permanent Teacher Licence; however, it can be cited by a school director when applying for a temporary Teacher Licence waiver. Obtaining a Teacher Licence is not the reason our trainees take our course.

If you have never taught English to non-native speakers before, the thought of stepping in to a classroom of 35+ young learners who can barely communicate with you in a foreign culture and 'teaching' them is very daunting. On SEE's 120-hour training course you will receive:

* Introduction to, and development of, relevant teaching methods and strategies

* 6 1-hour observed teaching practices with real students in real schools

* Understanding of a range of grammar terminology and an insight in to how structures are taught to non-native speakers

* Cultural awareness training

* Most participants are eligible for 1-year non-immigrant visa assistance

* A volunteer option with a 1-year non-immigrant visa and work permit for no extra charge

* 10 hours of basic Thai instruction

* Courses are limited to 10 trainees to ensure a maximum trainee/trainer ration of 5:1.

* Ongoing job support

* Ongoing local support (accommodation, banks, hospitals, police etc.) and a 24-hour helpline

* A network of friends from the training course

* From end-of-course feedback 100% of our students recommend us (all past feedback forms are available to view)

Our TEFL training course is the only teacher training course in Thailand (only 2 in Asia I believe) to achieve ISO 9001:2008 Quality Management Certification. ISO certification is the most recognized quality standard in the world and is recognized to governmental level in 162 countries.

John Quinn

SEE TEFL

Forum Sponsor

http://seetefl.com

[Scott]

Ice1318, if you take a look at previous threads in this sub forum, there are a great many of them devoted to TEFL's. This includes some older ones that got a bit nasty. We don't allow much of that anymore and they get closed, posts get deleted and posters get suspended.

I do the hiring for a number of schools. The priority is trying to keep people legal and that (where I work) means a degree and TL. A TEFL is valuable to a teacher who wants a job and wants to keep a job. Teachers with experience or a TEFL can walk into a classroom and pretty much start teaching. Without one or both, they tend to have problems. Those problems sometimes result in people not making it through the probation period. It certainly affects how they are perceived by the Thai Administration and that impacts things like raises in pay.

If you have the resources and time to get one, do so. It will never hurt you and may help a lot.

[mopenyang]

As for such a course never hurting you, I disagree. They can.

They can hurt you when employers are acquainted with particular courses from having previously hired graduates of the courses that proved to be less than sterling when it came to teaching professionally and effectively. As a result, some employers will no longer hire any graduate off of course A, P, X, etc. Prospective students of these kinds of courses should screen the courses very carefully before making a final selection.

Such courses can also hurt you when they create a false sense of confidence in their graduates causing them to believe that graduation ipso facto makes them fully qualified and professional teachers supremely equipped for all kinds of students in all types of learning situations. The reality is far different and my experience of many graduates from such courses is that they tend to have overly inflated opinions of themselves as teachers.

Another reason to be concerned about taking such a course is that too often the course will teach only one particular instructional methodology to the exclusion of all others. This can make the graduates of such courses very limited and even boring in the way they are able to present material to their students. They are often hesitant or unwilling to attempt different instructional methodologies and approaches simply because they know nothing about them. Again, they possess a limited knowledge base when it comes to the different facets of teaching, educational philosophy and theory, as opposed to someone who has graduated from a university undergraduate or graduate teacher licensing program complete with a student teaching practicum.

[bow]

As mentioned above, I ended up in an a very bad TEFL course. It hurt me indirectly by giving me an utter contempt for all TEFL courses and what they teach in such courses. In hindsight, I might have been a little bit too critical of TEFL courses.

So, how did I survive in my first school, with no experience and no real tefl ? We end up with the other leg; the degree. How does a 20 year old, non-educational, master's from Europe help you in a Thai classroom ? That is an easy question - the degree gives you confidence.

[PeaceBlondie]

I combined my BA degree in religion, 21 hours of accounting, a short career in youth education and managing religious education, 26 years of government service, raising six kids almost single-handed, tutoring ESL in Texas, years of peace-making in southern Mexico, a TEFL course in Thailand, and a 60-year old ponytail to teach teenagers in Lamphun. The ponytail did the trick.

[elkangorito]

I don't have a TEFL. As a matter of fact, I don't have any qualification for which the M.E. is looking. What I do have is a "Trade Certificate", which took 4 consecutive years to acquire.

I also believe that it is essential for a "Native English Speaker" to be able to speak correctly when applying for jobs in Thailand. What I mean by this is to be "understood". This usually requires slow speaking in an accent, which is not too extreme.

It will also be a major advantage if you are a "people person".

When Thailand gets serious about teaching English, I believe that the TEFL qualification will not mean much at all. Of course, this is providing that the Thai education system is willing to appropriately pay people with proper teaching degrees (from other countries).

[mizzi39]

I don't have a TEFL. As a matter of fact, I don't have any qualification for which the M.E. is looking. What I do have is a "Trade Certificate", which took 4 consecutive years to acquire.

I also believe that it is essential for a "Native English Speaker" to be able to speak correctly when applying for jobs in Thailand. What I mean by this is to be "understood". This usually requires slow speaking in an accent, which is not too extreme.

It will also be a major advantage if you are a "people person".

When Thailand gets serious about teaching English, I believe that the TEFL qualification will not mean much at all. Of course, this is providing that the Thai education system is willing to appropriately pay people with proper teaching degrees (from other countries).

The problem here is that there are not enough teachers worldwide with proper teaching degrees, and less and less people from the recent past as well as the up and coming generations are choosing the teaching profession for more than obvious reasons.

Many people that do have teaching credentials who choose to work overseas will usually choose countries that offer better incentives, so Thailand faces a lot of competition. What is an "appropriate pay"? What any country decides to pay their employees reflects their overall economy, so the bottom line is that "properly trained" may not add up to what one considers appropriate compensation.

Edited March 15, 2010 by mizzi39