The 2010 Formula One Season

[wackysleet]

Are we concentrating on the semantics of the debate or actually discussing the merits of the drivers in question, I am confused:jap:

David.

[rixalex]

I'm not discrediting anyone and my views are only as valid as the next persons (I'm not on some lofty perch), I'm just putting things in perspective.

The first part of your sentence is contradicted by the second part. You think that your opinion is as valid as the next person's, but you consider that your view puts things into perspective.

Not at all, you're choosing to cut 'a part' of what I write and use it out of context. You should have quoted the next line which formed part of what I was referring to in 'perspective'

It's just my opinion !

Quoting the entire paragraph makes no difference to the claim to be putting things in perspective. The implication remains that other people's view is given without perspective.

You admit to a bias towards Webber. OK. And how would you like it if after every negative comment you made forthwith concerning Vettel, i chime in with, "well you would say that, wouldn't you - you're biased towards Webber"? I don't think you'd like it and i think you would tell me that just liking Webber hasn't made you suddenly incapable of having an objective view of Vettel.

[b19bry]

Quoting the entire paragraph makes no difference to the claim to be putting things in perspective. The implication remains that other people's view is given without perspective.

Sorry but I think it does, anyway my point in this case is that a Hamilton fan's view is maybe not the most impartial view with regard to Alonso's performance.

You admit to a bias towards Webber. OK. And how would you like it if after every negative comment you made forthwith concerning Vettel, i chime in with, "well you would say that, wouldn't you - you're biased towards Webber"? I don't think you'd like it and i think you would tell me that just liking Webber hasn't made you suddenly incapable of having an objective view of Vettel.

I'm not going to get too upset about anything written on these pages. As regards Vettel v Webber, I think Vettel will have a bigger long term impact, though I think Webber has been (and is) undervalued by many.

[F1fanatic]

They won't care too much if Massa finishes 7th rather than 6th in the WDC, but they will care if Ferrari finishes the WCC in 3rd rather than 2nd. I'd say with the way Massa is driving, there is a big danger of this happening. Massa might not be a great driver, but he has driven better than he is now.

Just my opinion but, I think Ferrari would regard that a price worth paying for a shot at the WDC.

Normally, I'd disagree with you and agree with Rivalex that the WCC is far more important to any team than the WDC (money involved... WDC is great, but WCC is important financially).

However, Ferrari this year may be the exception to the rule. Having paid Kimi one hel_l of a lot of money not to race for them anymore, they NEED to prove that they made the 'right' decision i.e. Alonso was worth wasting all that money. Poor old Massa never stood a chance.

Nothing against Alonso - he's one of the best drivers in F1 at the moment (although I admit I don't support him) - and I don't support Kimi either - he was great in 2003/5 (?), but never showed 'greatness' whilst at Ferrari.

[b19bry]

They won't care too much if Massa finishes 7th rather than 6th in the WDC, but they will care if Ferrari finishes the WCC in 3rd rather than 2nd. I'd say with the way Massa is driving, there is a big danger of this happening. Massa might not be a great driver, but he has driven better than he is now.

Just my opinion but, I think Ferrari would regard that a price worth paying for a shot at the WDC.

Normally, I'd disagree with you and agree with Rivalex that the WCC is far more important to any team than the WDC (money involved... WDC is great, but WCC is important financially).

I think it's the exact opposite, I reckon it's the WDC that draws all the attention and consequently the sponsorship dollars and is the one most teams focus on primarily. I'd admit the teams like to win both where possible though.

However, Ferrari this year may be the exception to the rule. Having paid Kimi one hel_l of a lot of money not to race for them anymore, they NEED to prove that they made the 'right' decision i.e. Alonso was worth wasting all that money. Poor old Massa never stood a chance.

Nothing against Alonso - he's one of the best drivers in F1 at the moment (although I admit I don't support him) - and I don't support Kimi either - he was great in 2003/5 (?), but never showed 'greatness' whilst at Ferrari.

Given Red Bull's form at the back end of last season and during most of this one I'd think the expectation at Ferrari was not on winning the WDC this year but on building for next season. The fact that Alonso is now fighting for the WDC has much to do with Red Bull's failings but I think they must still be odds on to win it.

As for poor old Massa, he's still in one of the most prized drives on the grid.

Yes, it was strange how Kimi's form dropped off midway through 2008 ?

[F1fanatic]

B19 -

Know what you mean but, as I've said before, for most of the season Red Bull were unbelievably good at qualifying, but it didn't carry through to the race.

Yes, a small part of this is due to the driving (SV), but most of it was due (IMO) to the car.

Kimi? I don't think he was v good in 2007 either. McLaren (again IMO) lost the WDC, Kimi was 'lucky' to make the most of their disarray.

Again, nothing against Kimi, but I don't think he will be regarded in the future as an F1 'great'. Mind you, we all enjoyed his personality at times - 'inaudible' comments, ice-cream, drunk etc.! He had a couple of good years, but in the end we were disappointed

I thought money was paid by F1 organisation according to where the constructors ended up in the WCC - the higher they were, the more money they got - but I could be wrong!

Edited October 18, 2010 by F1fanatic

[b19bry]

I thought money was paid by F1 organisation according to where the constructors ended up in the WCC - the higher they were, the more money they got - but I could be wrong!

For the smaller teams that's certainly true but I believe the biggest slice of the pie goes to Ferrari regardless of where they finish !

Edited October 18, 2010 by b19bry

[rixalex]

Quoting the entire paragraph makes no difference to the claim to be putting things in perspective. The implication remains that other people's view is given without perspective.

Sorry but I think it does, anyway my point in this case is that a Hamilton fan's view is maybe not the most impartial view with regard to Alonso's performance.

And my point remains that we all have prejudices of one sort of another - yes, even you. I might be prejudiced in favour of Hamilton and against Alonso. You might be prejudiced in favour of Alonso and against Hamilton. Who knows?

Better to stick to discussing points made on the topic, rather than discussing the quality of the source of those points, as you see it, i would say.

I made a point about Alonso's career at McLaren, you responded with a "well you would say that, wouldn't you?". If you think that intelligently moves the debate further forward than a "i disagree with that point you made about Alonso because..." ....well then we differ in opinion once again. No surprise there then!

[b19bry]

Quoting the entire paragraph makes no difference to the claim to be putting things in perspective. The implication remains that other people's view is given without perspective.

Sorry but I think it does, anyway my point in this case is that a Hamilton fan's view is maybe not the most impartial view with regard to Alonso's performance.

And my point remains that we all have prejudices of one sort of another - yes, even you. I might be prejudiced in favour of Hamilton and against Alonso. You might be prejudiced in favour of Alonso and against Hamilton. Who knows?

Better to stick to discussing points made on the topic, rather than discussing the quality of the source of those points, as you see it, i would say.

I made a point about Alonso's career at McLaren, you responded with a "well you would say that, wouldn't you?". If you think that intelligently moves the debate further forward than a "i disagree with that point you made about Alonso because..." ....well then we differ in opinion once again. No surprise there then!

Actually your 'point' was built on :

1. Alonso had gone into an 'almighty sulk'

2. Had attempted to force the team to capitulate to his demands

3. Had threatened to blackmail his team

Quite how your privvy to so much of the intimate details of Alonso's life I'm not sure. However when you write in such a tone I think it's quite reasonable of me to question your impartiality.

Of course that's just my opinion

[rixalex]

Actually your 'point' was built on :

1. Alonso had gone into an 'almighty sulk'

2. Had attempted to force the team to capitulate to his demands

3. Had threatened to blackmail his team

Quite how your privvy to so much of the intimate details of Alonso's life I'm not sure. However when you write in such a tone I think it's quite reasonable of me to question your impartiality.

Of course that's just my opinion

Saying that Alonso sulked and that he was overly demanding is neither an intimate detail of the man's life, nor is it something most, bar perhaps Alonso or his fans, would dispute. Fact is pretty much all F1 drivers have the capacity to both sulk and be demanding. The fact that stating these things about Alonso has made you as defensive as it has, makes me think it's quite reasonable of me to question your impartiality.

[b19bry]

Actually your 'point' was built on :

1. Alonso had gone into an 'almighty sulk'

2. Had attempted to force the team to capitulate to his demands

3. Had threatened to blackmail his team

Quite how your privvy to so much of the intimate details of Alonso's life I'm not sure. However when you write in such a tone I think it's quite reasonable of me to question your impartiality.

Of course that's just my opinion

Saying that Alonso sulked and that he was overly demanding is neither an intimate detail of the man's life, nor is it something most, bar perhaps Alonso or his fans, would dispute.

I think it's both sorry, for example when did you ever have the opportunity to see him go into an 'almighty sulk' (what form did that take) or be overly demanding ?

What's you source for this ? Do you know the man ? Sounds to me like you're just basing your 'facts' on what may have been written in the British Tabloid press, I'm sure if you were to read the Spanish (or indeed anything other than the British) media you'd get a somewhat different story, who's to say which is nearer the truth ?

The only thing we can be sure of is what we see of him or any other driver on the track. I'm basing my statements about him on that. As far as I'm concerned his, or any of the other driver's personal lives is of little interest to me and has little bearing on his standing as a driver.

I would admit the revelations about Max Mosley made me smile though

[rixalex]

Saying that Alonso sulked and that he was overly demanding is neither an intimate detail of the man's life, nor is it something most, bar perhaps Alonso or his fans, would dispute.

I think it's both sorry, for example when did you ever have the opportunity to see him go into an 'almighty sulk' (what form did that take) or be overly demanding ?

What's you source for this ? Do you know the man ? Sounds to me like you're just basing your 'facts' on what may have been written in the British Tabloid press, I'm sure if you were to read the Spanish (or indeed anything other than the British) media you'd get a somewhat different story, who's to say which is nearer the truth ?

The only thing we can be sure of is what we see of him or any other driver on the track. I'm basing my statements about him on that. As far as I'm concerned his, or any of the other driver's personal lives is of little interest to me and has little bearing on his standing as a driver.

Firstly, i'm not in the UK and haven't read British tabloids for over a decade. I watch the race coverage and the American sports channels and that is what forms most of my opinion. The only British media that i do dip into from time to time is BBC Sport. If you think they are biased, up to you. I think most of their coverage is pretty balanced. Writers like Andrew Benson do a good job. Yes they have been known to have a pop at Alonso, but they have been equally vocal about Lewis.

Secondly, it doesn't require an inside knowledge of a sports person's personal life to have some clue about their character. We learn a great deal about that every time they are in front of a camera. We can see when drivers are unhappy, when they are disillusioned, when they are inspired, when they are pissed off, when they are elated... and indeed, when they are sulking. We can even see when they are petulant and prattish.

Unfortunately that's the other side to Hamilton, he can be a petulant pratt at times, whiner of Mansell-esque proportions

Please tell me how your comments about Hamilton are in any way different from mine about Alonso?

You wouldn't happen to be Scottish or Irish would you? Just a hunch....

[b19bry]

Firstly, i'm not in the UK and haven't read British tabloids for over a decade. I watch the race coverage and the American sports channels and that is what forms most of my opinion. The only British media that i do dip into from time to time is BBC Sport. If you think they are biased, up to you. I think most of their coverage is pretty balanced. Writers like Andrew Benson do a good job. Yes they have been known to have a pop at Alonso, but they have been equally vocal about Lewis.

I wasn't suggesting you were in the UK, just that you'd likely got your information re: Alonso going into 'almighty sulks' etc. from the British Media.

I'm surprised anyone outside the US would reference any American sports channels to keep updated on F1given the level of interest there ? Although I'm not familiar with Andrew Benson, Hamilton is certainly the 'golden boy of F1' (as Hill & Mansell were before him) to the mainstream British media, the BBC included. The days when the BBC was the paragon of independent news reporting are long gone (as witnessed by their appalling coverage of the Red Shirt protests), they have their agenda's as much any other news outlet.

I'd concede the specialist F1 media sources are mostly less partisan, though for example Kevin Garside in the Telegraph was incredibly partisan and unbalanced especially for a 'quality' publication when he was reporting F1. In general the biggest rivals to the British heroes are always demonised to some degree in the British media, look back to Hill v Schumacher, Prost v Mansell at Ferrari, Lauda v Hunt, the list goes on. Alonso v Hamilton is no different and has extra 'spice' because of the year they spent together in 2007.

Secondly, it doesn't require an inside knowledge of a sports person's personal life to have some clue about their character. We learn a great deal about that every time they are in front of a camera. We can see when drivers are unhappy, when they are disillusioned, when they are inspired, when they are pissed off, when they are elated... and indeed, when they are sulking. We can even see when they are petulant and prattish.

I'm not denying you can get 'some clue about their character' when you see them on camera but to say you 'learn a great deal about that' and then go on to write about 'almighty sulks' blackmailing his team etc. is stretching it and to my mind unfair. My issue with that is that you're quoting these things as certain facts, in reality you don't know for sure and your reference for that, in part at least, is the British Media. Your personal exposure to the drivers and thus your knowledge of their true character's is extremely limited however much you may think you know them. If you actually did ever get to meet them there's every chance they'd be very different from your perceptions.

[b19bry]

Unfortunately that's the other side to Hamilton, he can be a petulant pratt at times, whiner of Mansell-esque proportions

Please tell me how your comments about Hamilton are in any way different from mine about Alonso?

You wouldn't happen to be Scottish or Irish would you? Just a hunch....

Well you got me bang to rights there :jap: I must admit I'm rather surprised it took you so long to pick up on that !

I don't have the right to comment on Hamilton in that way really and I don't know whether he's trully a pratt or not, just that he appeared that to me at the time.

Anyways I will limit my comments to what happens on the track in future.

Sorry, your hunch is way off, not Scottish or Irish, I was actually born very near to Stevenage does it matter ?

Edited October 19, 2010 by b19bry

[TBWG]

Hi

Interesting article by Joe Saward ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reiterating we are in the right part of world both F1 wise and economically! See penultimate paragraph!

Why I am glad to be off to Korea

October 19, 2010 by joesaward

Most of the Formula 1 circus is not looking forward to going to Korea. Many are staying at home, amid the usual rumours about things not being ready, having to eat “doggie and two veg”, and getting lost in world of endless paddy fields, where no-one speaks a word of English… And so on. I am told by my friends that the word “motel” does not mean I am staying in a hotel, but rather in a brothel. Ah well, so long as they don’t rent out my room when I am at the race track, I really don’t care. It cannot be any worse that the first year in Bahrain when I was staying in a place where Russian hookers seemed to rule the roost…

I am sure that it will be fine. In fact I am sure it will be rather less chaotic than living in France at the moment. I live in a country village, about 50 miles from Paris and so I am not really affected by the excesses of the French unions and their short-sighted supporters. I need fuel to get from A to B, but at this time of year A is home and B is Paris, which means that I shuttle backwards and forwards along the same route. The airport is between the two. So a tank of petrol will last me a few weeks, which is a good thing in the current climate. My life is not entirely unaffected by the mess, although yesterday it did take me two hours to cover the journey. There was terrible traffic, presumably due to truck drivers doing their infamous “Operation Escargot”, which means they slow to a crawl and jam everyone behind them. Liberté, égalité et fraternité – pour moi!

One of the petrol stations on my route from A to B

I sneaked on to a different road but then found myself in the middle of a demonstration of college students, who have obviously learned the bad habits of their parents and do not seem to understand that if they win this strike and the government backs down they will not have any kind of pension at all, because France will be bankrupt by the time they are old and ready to retire.

Having dodged around that I stopped for a coffee in a petrol station (disturbed sleep patterns being as they are after two out-and-back trips to Asia, with a third – hopefully – beginning tomorrow). The petrol pumps were dry because the unions are blockading the oil refineries. At least this time the government seems willing to send in the police to restore order in vital places, which is progress compared to the last time we went through all this rigmarole. Having lived through the Thatcher Years in Britain I understand what is needed in France, where the unions have too much power and, in my opinion, misuse it disgracefully. Some may not agree with that opinion, but I know that after the Iron Lady faced down the miners in the UK, and Ronald Reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the United States, it was a great deal easier to do business. Unions do have a role to pay in societies where there is real injustice and poor working regulation, but France is anything but that.

When I finally reached home I found an e-mail from a mate who flits between France and England. It said: “now back in London and considering the state of affairs in France, happy to be so”. I thought for a moment that perhaps one day I will move back to the mother country.

In the circumstances I am happy to be going off for a little bit of an adventure in Korea. In the Asia of today they understand that to make progress one has to work, because countries have to compete in a global world, where no-one is protected. No-one is living on past glories, no-one is leeching off the state. As each nation invests in new technology,or embarks on a new mega-project, Europe falls a little further behind. This will not change as long as the current attitudes exist.

It is something that Bernie Ecclestone has been saying for years – and he is right (as usual).

“Europe will be a Third World economy in the next decade, in particular Britain. In South America and Asia there is a work ethic. Over here they want everything for free. The National Health Service means everyone thinks they can have just what they want. I’d get rid of it. We should be running the country like a business rather than social care.”

In the circumstances I think Korea is an infinitely more inviting prospect… at least for four or five days.

TBWG

[rixalex]

I wasn't suggesting you were in the UK, just that you'd likely got your information re: Alonso going into 'almighty sulks' etc. from the British Media.

I don't.

I'm surprised anyone outside the US would reference any American sports channels to keep updated on F1given the level of interest there ?

ESPN and Star Sports are the channels i was refering to, and in Asia they cover F1. Not well, but they do cover it, and i have no alternatives on the box.

Although I'm not familiar with Andrew Benson, Hamilton is certainly the 'golden boy of F1' (as Hill & Mansell were before him) to the mainstream British media, the BBC included.

If you are not familiar with Andrew Benson, i don't think you are familiar with the BBC's F1 reporting. That you think he is their golden boy, confirms it.

The days when the BBC was the paragon of independent news reporting are long gone (as witnessed by their appalling coverage of the Red Shirt protests), they have their agenda's as much any other news outlet.

In terms of BBC news i'm completely with you. Sport i think is a bit different.

[b19bry]

I don't

OK, well any chance you're going to tell us where you read about Alonso's 'almighty sulk' thing, other than a "nor is it something most, bar perhaps Alonso or his fans, would dispute" ? If it was Spanish media I'll buy you a beer !

ESPN and Star Sports are the channels i was refering to, and in Asia they cover F1. Not well, but they do cover it, and i have no alternatives on the box.

If you are not familiar with Andrew Benson, i don't think you are familiar with the BBC's F1 reporting. That you think he is their golden boy, confirms it.

I wouldn't class 'Star Sports' an American sports channel. It may be owned by a US based company but it's Asian based and it's programming content is for Asia, (not much EPL is watched in the US !!). Importantly (as regards my point), much of it's reporting is by British reporters so my initial contention is still valid.

An alternative would be to do as I do and watch the live BBC race coverage on the internet (connected to your TV). I'm obviously familiar (from that) with the BBC's F1 reporting, it's just that I gave up reading their general reporting on F1 as I didn't think it 'balanced' :jap:

I'm surprised you'd even contest that Hamilton is not favoured by the BBC and British mainstream media ? Button is too by the way as were all British drivers before him, and I was also a fan of some of them too !

[rixalex]

OK, well any chance you're going to tell us where you read about Alonso's 'almighty sulk' thing, other than a "nor is it something most, bar perhaps Alonso or his fans, would dispute" ? If it was Spanish media I'll buy you a beer !

I didn't read it anywhere. Do you have to read something for it to be true?

I simply watched pre race build up interviews, the race themselves of course, and then post race interviews and subsequent sports news on the aforementioned channels. From that i formed the view that Alonso was struggling to cope with having a team mate that was keeping up with him and putting him under pressure. He then made some comments about the team not treating him as a number one. From this i gathered that he was asking for preference in certain areas to be given and it was not forthcoming. Then we had all the business of him being involved in the exposing of Spygate. Put all these incidents together, and there you have the basis for my opinion.

It's not scientific this business of forming an opinion you know. We all do it, and in most cases, there's no way to prove these things. I think Alonso was sulking, you don't. You think my view must be biased because i like Hamilton. OK, fine. Then i think your view must be biased because you dislike him. Do you see how this line of discussion takes us round in circles?

[yermanee]

Dear Rixalex,

For someone that invited other peoples views in your topic title, you should have realized that some of the replies would be from people that are no fans of Lewis Hamilton.

Anyway imho this topic has gone over the limit in clashes of personalities and differing opinions.

Please lay it to rest.

Yermanee

[rixalex]

Dear Rixalex,

For someone that invited other peoples views in your topic title, you should have realized that some of the replies would be from people that are no fans of Lewis Hamilton.

Anyway imho this topic has gone over the limit in clashes of personalities and differing opinions.

Please lay it to rest.

Yermanee

Dear Yermanee,

Everyone's view is welcome here. Everyone's view is equal.

If someone disagree's with my view, i'm happy for it to be challenged by that person presenting their view along with their reasons. What i'm not happy for is for my view to be dismissed out of hand just because i happen to like LH. Would you feel any differently? Suppose you made a point about one of the drivers and i responded with "you are only saying that because you are German".

As far as "this topic has gone over the limit in clashes of personalities and differing opinions." is concerned, i agree that personalities should be kept out of the discussion (see above), but disagree in terms of the differing opinions part. Differing opinions is exactly what I come here for. Why not give us yours, but this time, not on the debating merits of the thread, but on F1. I for one am interested to hear.

[b19bry]

Well the Almighty Sulker 'lucks' to another win with Golden Boy second

More seriously Red Bull seem to be doing their very best to lose this championship

[Abrak]

“Europe will be a Third World economy in the next decade, in particular Britain. In South America and Asia there is a work ethic. Over here they want everything for free. The National Health Service means everyone thinks they can have just what they want. I’d get rid of it. We should be running the country like a business rather than social care.”

fuc_k me, you guys are arguing about the nuances of individual drivers motives and aspirations based on a bias in the reported press. This guy is lecturing on economics based on his in depth knowledge of impossibly rich guys driving impossibly fast cars around tracks without oncoming traffic.

Oh yeah lets screw the National Health Service and lets worship F1 - my car might only go 8mph around the M25 but its brakes are basically the same as Alonso's F1 car. And Hamilton's watch might be very similar to mine as we both need the exact split second timing.

[b19bry]

fuc_k me, you guys are arguing about the nuances of individual drivers motives and aspirations based on a bias in the reported press. This guy is lecturing on economics based on his in depth knowledge of impossibly rich guys driving impossibly fast cars around tracks without oncoming traffic.

Oh yeah lets screw the National Health Service and lets worship F1 - my car might only go 8mph around the M25 but its brakes are basically the same as Alonso's F1 car. And Hamilton's watch might be very similar to mine as we both need the exact split second timing.

Yeah nice watch, but who's your tip for the WDC ?

[Miiyai46]

RBR suffered their first double retirement since March 2008. Webber did a mistake and crashed out early on the race and Vettel, who started on pole for the ninth time in 17 races suffered a blown engine towards the end of the race.

Hamilton revived his title chase with a decent race. He did a very stupid mistake after the 4th safety car going very wide at T1 where Alonso overtook him. Mclaren has closed the gap on Red Bull in the constructors' standings to 27 points only......to win the championship the staff should pay more attention to their job rather than to the F1 girls.......

Fifth win of the season for Alonso and 215th for Ferrari since 1950. The Spaniard now leads the championship with a 11 points gap to Webber. Massa? Good number 2 driver.....

Cheers

[yermanee]

[

Differing opinions is exactly what I come here for. Why not give us yours, but this time, not on the debating merits of the thread, but on F1. I for one am interested to hear.

I tried that once, remember my claim that Coulthard admitted he was in the wrong in the Spa incident with Schumacher.

Remember the flack I got, before someone actually verified my claim and I was proven correct.

I was branded as a Schumacher fan, which seems to be a mortal sin on this forum, just because of my chosen user name.

Enough said.

I was just trying to give you some good advice.

Yermanee

[rixalex]

Well the Almighty Sulker 'lucks' to another win with Golden Boy second

More seriously Red Bull seem to be doing their very best to lose this championship

Vettel had a perfect weekend in every respect really and deserved to take the chequered flag first. Shame his engine blew.

Gary Anderson had a bit of a dig at him for what he perceived as a cheeky attempt to have the race stopped early by his comments about insufficient daylight shortly before his car gave up. I thought that was a bit unfair.

Alonso also drove very well. And his comments in the post race interview i think were very intelligent. He's the guy with the right balance of maturity and experience, and that could be what wins him the title. My only concern for him would be the fact that he is on a streak of not only good driving but of having no disasters befall him - unlike some of the other drivers over the last few races. He almost got tagged by Webber but narrowly avoided it. Luck has to run out sometime. Just ask Vettel.

As for Webber, i really felt that his attitude was all wrong, and quite possibly led to his error. He had no confidence and really didn't want to go racing. Too much caution can be a negative. True champions i think need a more up and at 'em, fearless attitude

Speaking of which, it was a nonsense to me to have kept the safety car out so long. The conditions were undoubtedly tricky but that's what we want to see - drivers challenged. And what with all the investigations they have after every tiny incident and accident, i think the FIA is seriously over-policing the sport now. Just let the drivers get on with the racing and stop interfering.

Lewis and Button for some reason struggled with the tyres. Perhaps it was the way they set the cars up. Mercedes seemed to have done an excellent job on that front, what with the way Rosberg and Schumi were flying through the field. Rosberg deserved better luck, having passed Lewis. Ironic to think had he not, it might have been Lewis getting caught up in Webber's car. Would have ended his championship hopes, just as Button's race performance did. A combination of some average driving and bad luck in pitting just before the safety car came out.

Last two races should be fun. My money is on Vettel or Alonso now. Hope Vettel prevails - failing of course a fightback from Lewis.

[rixalex]

I tried that once, remember my claim that Coulthard admitted he was in the wrong in the Spa incident with Schumacher.

Remember the flack I got, before someone actually verified my claim and I was proven correct.

I was branded as a Schumacher fan, which seems to be a mortal sin on this forum, just because of my chosen user name.

Enough said.

I was just trying to give you some good advice.

Yermanee

Your advice to me was "lay it to rest", but you yourself there have dredged up a discussion from months ago. Bit of irony there i would say. No?

Anyway, i understand why you would have taken offence to having your view dismissed just because of your user name, and i'm sorry it led to you leaving the discussion.

[F1fanatic]

Well the Almighty Sulker 'lucks' to another win with Golden Boy second

More seriously Red Bull seem to be doing their very best to lose this championship

Vettel had a perfect weekend in every respect really and deserved to take the chequered flag first. Shame his engine blew.

Gary Anderson had a bit of a dig at him for what he perceived as a cheeky attempt to have the race stopped early by his comments about insufficient daylight shortly before his car gave up. I thought that was a bit unfair.

Alonso also drove very well. And his comments in the post race interview i think were very intelligent. He's the guy with the right balance of maturity and experience, and that could be what wins him the title. My only concern for him would be the fact that he is on a streak of not only good driving but of having no disasters befall him - unlike some of the other drivers over the last few races. He almost got tagged by Webber but narrowly avoided it. Luck has to run out sometime. Just ask Vettel.

As for Webber, i really felt that his attitude was all wrong, and quite possibly led to his error. He had no confidence and really didn't want to go racing. Too much caution can be a negative. True champions i think need a more up and at 'em, fearless attitude

Speaking of which, it was a nonsense to me to have kept the safety car out so long. The conditions were undoubtedly tricky but that's what we want to see - drivers challenged. And what with all the investigations they have after every tiny incident and accident, i think the FIA is seriously over-policing the sport now. Just let the drivers get on with the racing and stop interfering.

Lewis and Button for some reason struggled with the tyres. Perhaps it was the way they set the cars up. Mercedes seemed to have done an excellent job on that front, what with the way Rosberg and Schumi were flying through the field. Rosberg deserved better luck, having passed Lewis. Ironic to think had he not, it might have been Lewis getting caught up in Webber's car. Would have ended his championship hopes, just as Button's race performance did. A combination of some average driving and bad luck in pitting just before the safety car came out.

Last two races should be fun. My money is on Vettel or Alonso now. Hope Vettel prevails - failing of course a fightback from Lewis.

Agree with most of your post, but BOTH RBR drivers were v happy to stay under the safety car. It was obvious that the race needed to be started under the SC, but it stayed out too long.

Have to admit that as soon as Vettel radioed in (as soon as 75% of laps had been done and he would have received maximum points.....) I was pissed off. His attitude was understandable, but I didn't like him for it. I was not impressed with Webber trying so hard for the race to be continued under the safety car for as long as possible either - and he was the driver I hoped would win the WDC. Again, his attitude was understandable, but not about to endear him to the fans..... we were all bored rigid and could see that the safety car should have left a good few laps earlier.

Odd I know, but I enjoyed the 'race' whilst it was red flagged! The funny comments of commentators, forum texters and a friend I was texting in the UK made me laugh out loud quite often. The yellow lorries clearing the track (travelling at about 1 mph) were a highlight - and friend pointed out the drivers should race them! Once the race got going again under the safety car it got boring compared to what we'd seen during the red flag conditions!

Anyway, the actual race was great - I particularly liked Sutil's many kamikaze overtaking attempts, but admit if he'd taken out a driver I liked I wouldn't have found it so funny....

Despite seriously annoying me on Sunday, I still hope Webber wins - he hasn't too many seasons left, Vettel needs to realise he is not 'god's gift' and Alonso's laugh on the radio after he won, scared the cr.p out of me! Talk about demoniacal!

[F1fanatic]

[

Differing opinions is exactly what I come here for. Why not give us yours, but this time, not on the debating merits of the thread, but on F1. I for one am interested to hear.

I tried that once, remember my claim that Coulthard admitted he was in the wrong in the Spa incident with Schumacher.

Remember the flack I got, before someone actually verified my claim and I was proven correct.

I was branded as a Schumacher fan, which seems to be a mortal sin on this forum, just because of my chosen user name.

Enough said.

I was just trying to give you some good advice.

Yermanee

Don't give up on a forum just 'cos you get some flack! You were proven right and if you love F1, you must need to share your views after a race. Its what we all enjoy, whether we agree with the views expressed or not

I'm a HUGE Schumi fan so have received lots of flack from many people - who cares? Its all about enjoying the races and arguing your corner.

Edited October 25, 2010 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

[

Differing opinions is exactly what I come here for. Why not give us yours, but this time, not on the debating merits of the thread, but on F1. I for one am interested to hear.

I tried that once, remember my claim that Coulthard admitted he was in the wrong in the Spa incident with Schumacher.

Remember the flack I got, before someone actually verified my claim and I was proven correct.

I was branded as a Schumacher fan, which seems to be a mortal sin on this forum, just because of my chosen user name.

Enough said.

I was just trying to give you some good advice.

Yermanee

Don't give up on a forum just 'cos you get some flack! You were proven right and if you love F1, you must need to share your views after a race. Its what we all enjoy, whether we agree with the views expressed or not

I'm a HUGE Schumi fan so have received lots of flack from many people - who cares? Its all about enjoying the races and arguing your corner.

Spot on advice from F1.