The 2010 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

It seems a bit unfair to me.

Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but wasn't Massa leading the WDC recently with Alonso some way behind?

Massa led the WDC by 2 points after Malaysia from Vettel and Alonso who'd failed to finish when his engine let go !

For the rest of the year he's been behind and pretty much outclassed and outpaced by Alonso. However seems like he might be staying put now according to Stefano Domenicali ?

Indeed. Alonso is quickly putting his stamp on the team and Massa will i think fall into his shadow further as the season progresses. Unless Massa is happy to be a number two once again, he should move on. His chance at Ferrari has come and gone.

I'm not convinced. Whilst I don't rate Massa as a truly first class F1 driver (and - I hate to admit this, I think Alonso is better/more consistent), IMO he's a v good driver.

He was leaving KR in the dust until his accident last year. Kimi fans believe that Kimi was brilliant after Massa's accident (unlike at the beginning of the season....). My own view is that it was taking them both time to get used to that awful car, but Massa was getting to grips more quickly and would have continued to out-perform Kimi given the chance. Obviously, we'll never know.

If (as I think) he's a top mid-range driver - why would Ferrari want to get rid of him? Its obvious that Alonso throws his toys out of the pram pretty quickly - he may have learned a lesson at McLaren, but he still passed Massa in the pit lane recently! NOT the move of a team driver . If he dominates Massa this year, Ferrari need a top-mid range driver as his team-mate.

That's just my view though!

I can see why keeping Massa works for Ferrrari in the fact that Alonso needs to be kept happy and a driver like Massa who has shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle, is the sort of team mate that Alonso can work with. The problem is does this arrangement work for Massa? Since his sniff at victory he became a more ambitious driver. Is he going to be content returning to the role of support driver?

As for how well Massa did when driving along side KR, i think one has to take into consideration that KR was a very different driver after he won the WDC.

[F1fanatic]

I don't think its a case of keeping a 'second fiddle' driver - more a driver (from Alonso's POV) who will probably not beat him (although that remains to be seen).

It will be interesting to see what happens this season in the Ferrari team, but as long as Massa is receiving equal treatment (and Ferrari can afford that), even if Alonso beats him - why would he want to go to a lesser team? At least he has a chance with Ferrari, and its unlikely the other 'top' teams are going to recruit him - they've got their own 'top' drivers that are not moving.

Also have to disagree that Massa has "shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle". I assume you're talking about his time with Schumi?

Do you HONESTLY think that Schumi only comprehensively beat him because he was 'playing second fiddle'?

I don't - but admit its only my opinion.

Turning to KR - I used to rate him as a 'top' driver - until he moved to Ferrari.....

IMO (again), he 'lucked' into his WDC - Alonso/Lewis had no excuse for not gaining the WDC that year, but (for different reasons) lost it. Kimi won the championship fairly and squarely, but its not something that will be looked back at in years to come as a 'great' win.

The next 2 years he spent at Ferrari were the same as the first - lacklustre and uninspiring, apart from a v few races.

[rixalex]

Also have to disagree that Massa has "shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle". I assume you're talking about his time with Schumi?

Do you HONESTLY think that Schumi only comprehensively beat him because he was 'playing second fiddle'?

I don't - but admit its only my opinion.

You are quick to rush to Schumi's defense when it was not needed. Where did i say that Schumi only comprehensively beat him because he was 'playing second fiddle'? ?

I didn't.

Schumi beat Massa because he was a far better driver. And Alonso will do likewise.

[rixalex]

IMO (again), he 'lucked' into his WDC - Alonso/Lewis had no excuse for not gaining the WDC that year, but (for different reasons) lost it. Kimi won the championship fairly and squarely, but its not something that will be looked back at in years to come as a 'great' win.

Completely agree. KR didn't win it, McLaren conspired against themselves to present it to him as a a gift. A gift i think he kind of deserved for all the bad luck he had experienced at McLaren. Call it karma if you want.

[F1fanatic]

Also have to disagree that Massa has "shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle". I assume you're talking about his time with Schumi?

Do you HONESTLY think that Schumi only comprehensively beat him because he was 'playing second fiddle'?

I don't - but admit its only my opinion.

You are quick to rush to Schumi's defense when it was not needed. Where did i say that Schumi only comprehensively beat him because he was 'playing second fiddle'? ?

I didn't.

Schumi beat Massa because he was a far better driver. And Alonso will do likewise.

Umm no, I was only replying to your comment that "Massa who has shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle".

He didn't play second fiddle to Kimi (until he could no longer win the WDC) so I had to assume you were talking about Schumi (his only other partner at Ferrari until now).

Who did you mean?

[rixalex]

Umm no, I was only replying to your comment that "Massa who has shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle".

He didn't play second fiddle to Kimi (until he could no longer win the WDC) so I had to assume you were talking about Schumi (his only other partner at Ferrari until now).

Who did you mean?

I was talking about when he drove with Schumi. He did play second fiddle at that time.

Confusion seems to be that you took my comment about him playing second fiddle to Schumi as meaning that Schumi's superiority was because of that fact. It wasn't. Schumi was superior first and foremost because he was a much better driver.

[F1fanatic]

Umm no, I was only replying to your comment that "Massa who has shown himself in the past happy to play second fiddle".

He didn't play second fiddle to Kimi (until he could no longer win the WDC) so I had to assume you were talking about Schumi (his only other partner at Ferrari until now).

Who did you mean?

I was talking about when he drove with Schumi. He did play second fiddle at that time.

Confusion seems to be that you took my comment about him playing second fiddle to Schumi as meaning that Schumi's superiority was because of that fact. It wasn't. Schumi was superior first and foremost because he was a much better driver.

OK, sorry - I misunderstood.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the season plays out. Like you, I think Alonso is a better driver - but as I also think he's a spoilt, whinging brat, I'm hoping Massa will perform better than expected.

I know personality shouldn't come into it - but unfortunately I find some drivers unlikeable, even if I respect their skills.

Edited May 28, 2010 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

OK, sorry - I misunderstood.

No problem.

Like you, I think Alonso is a better driver - but as I also think he's a spoilt, whinging brat, I'm hoping Massa will perform better than expected.

I'm not too keen on either if i'm honest. Alonso is all the things you say he is, plus more, and Massa is a guy who thanks to some over-zelaous stewarding almost stumbled into winning the WDC, and since that day has been a bitter man in defeat and one who over-estimates his own pedigree.

I know personality shouldn't come into it - but unfortunately I find some drivers unlikeable, even if I respect their skills.

I think if we are honest, we all feel this way.

[Donnyboy]

yes! Webber gets pole again- hes driving superb!

Hamilton 2nd, Vettel 3rd

[bunple]

yes! Webber gets pole again- hes driving superb!

Hamilton 2nd, Vettel 3rd

... yeah and button 4th and some German guy in 5th. Should be a good race.

[Mosha]

An interesting top 10 grid, barring accidents I might get to watch this race.

[rixalex]

Another great qualifying by Webber, and an out of sorts qualifying by Vettel and Alonso.

Vettel has a good chance of redeeming himself if he can use the clean side of the track to get the better of Lewis going into the first corner.

Alonso needs to race full out as we know he can and hope his team can come up with some sort of an alternative strategy that allows him to do some leap-frogging.

Should be an interesting race whatever.

Turn eight is something a bit special. I wonder how many drivers it will catch out...

[MJo]

IMO (again), he 'lucked' into his WDC - Alonso/Lewis had no excuse for not gaining the WDC that year, but (for different reasons) lost it. Kimi won the championship fairly and squarely, but its not something that will be looked back at in years to come as a 'great' win.

Completely agree. KR didn't win it, McLaren conspired against themselves to present it to him as a a gift. A gift i think he kind of deserved for all the bad luck he had experienced at McLaren. Call it karma if you want.

If i remember correctly everyone wrote Kimi off and claimed he's not going to win WDC and look what happened. He kept his cool and won races and came from behind like no one before him.

IMHO the fact that Lewis and Alonso could not handle the pressure and made mistakes does not mean Kimi got is as a gift. He came from behind and dominated the others to the point they could not keep it together. In other words he was just better driver and stronger mentally than the rest and thats why he win the WDC.

It's kinda same if you would claim Lewis didn't win it either. Was given it as gift by others letting him pass at last lap. If you get my drift.

I do agree though that last season he was not the same driver anymore. Knew he's going to leave Ferrari since mid season and lost his motivation.

[rixalex]

From the BBC website:

The two-time world champion Alonso was not helped by a wobble when he touched the painted white line under braking coming into Turn 12.

The incident, which occurred in the closing stages of the second part of qualifying, came on his first flying lap on his final set of tyres - when the rubber is at its fastest.

Alonso lost vital time and gave up on the lap and he could not set a quick-enough time on his final circuit to go through.

Afterwards, the Spaniard refused to accept that he had made an error, saying: "In that lap I was worse than in the previous lap so it didn't cost me any time or Q3 opportunity.

"We were not quick enough, I didn't consider [that I made] any mistake."

The qualifying performance was far from ideal on the weekend Ferrari are celebrating their 800th F1 world championship race.

[Donnyboy]

Vettel has a good chance of redeeming himself if he can use the clean side of the track to get the better of Lewis going into the first corner.

he did but lost it soon after, Schui did well to pass Button at the start

so far Webber cant shake Hamilton (lap 12)

Hamiltons stalking Webber, hoping for a mistake from Webber

[Donnyboy]

not sure if this has been discussed yet,

rule 40:13 rears its head again, changes on its way

FIA admits “lack of clarity” and vows to change rules after Monaco controversy

i always thought that rule sucked

[Donnyboy]

on twitter:JaimeAlguersuar's #RedBull #F1 car racing on the beach in the Dominican Republic

[Donnyboy]

Red Bull, <deleted>?!!!!

who do you blame for that?

looking at the replays, it looked like Vettels the bad boy

will be friction between the 2 now you would think

Edited May 30, 2010 by Donnyboy

[Mosha]

The front on view shows Vettel turned into him. It's gonna be lively after the race.

[Donnyboy]

oh well, at least you cant say the race was boring

xmas comes early for Mclaren

[Donnyboy]

just noticed Hamilton wearing earrings on the podium (Paula mentioned something about it yesterday)

doesnt the rules state no jewellery to be worn during the race?

I dont think he had time to put them in after the race,

I reckon a 30 sec penalty should apply

Finally, the Council announced that, with immediate effect, drivers are banned from wearing jewellery while competing, with “jewellery” defined as “body piercing and heavy chains”.

link

[b19bry]

Red Bull, <deleted>?!!!!

who do you blame for that?

looking at the replays, it looked like Vettels the bad boy

will be friction between the 2 now you would think

<deleted> exactly...........handed Maclaren an easy one-two !

Looks like Vettel turned into Webber from the replays ?

Rule number 1 : Don't take your team mate out ....... ?

[rixalex]

Red Bull, <deleted>?!!!!

who do you blame for that?

looking at the replays, it looked like Vettels the bad boy

will be friction between the 2 now you would think

<deleted> exactly...........handed Maclaren an easy one-two !

Looks like Vettel turned into Webber from the replays ?

Rule number 1 : Don't take your team mate out ....... ?

Interesting that the team seem to be siding with Vettel.

My take on it from first view was that Vettel had got half a car length in front of Webber and therefore Webber should have conceded. From looking at the replays however it's clear that Vettel jinked to the right, obviously in an effort to intimidate and get space, more than i think he needed to - especially bearing in mind it was his team mate. To have then made all the gesticulations that he did apportioning blame to Webber was a bit undiplomatic, even accounting for the high emotion he must have been feeling at the time.

Interesting the way he then went to work with the paddock crew with hugs and hand shakes - definitely a bit of mind games going on. Going to make the rest of the season interesting!

Things at McLaren hotting up too, even if circumstances allowed them to hide things much better. Lewis i think was for certain given assurances that he was ok to back off without having to worry about Jenson attacking. Whether or not Jenson didn't get the message or whether he did and didn't care i'm not sure.

Although i don't really like team orders being employed, i can understand in those circumstances the team wanting to preserve what they have, and having just seen what happened with the Raging Bulls i think Lewis must have been shocked by Jenson's attack. It's the sort of thing that Lewis himself might have done, and no doubt he would have been attacked by his detractors after for endangering his team mate's chance of victory.

Anyway, championship just got a whole lot closer. Here's to the next installment of what is turning into a very interesting season...

[Mosha]

I think Jenson chose not to understand the coded message. I can see a change of driver line up at Red Bull next season.

[Donnyboy]

well at least its game on this season from the very beginning

last year at this stage it was shaping to be the Brawn-yawn show.

so what do you guys think of the points system now given that we have had a few races gone, and that the WDC is wide open?

[rixalex]

I think Jenson chose not to understand the coded message.

I think you are probably right, and i think it was this issue that caused Lewis's winning celebration to be so incredibly subdued, to the point you could almost have been forgiven for thinking he had lost! I think he was in a state of shock. He had been told to slow down and bring the car in safely and that his team mate was doing the same, for him to suddenly find himself in a full on, wheel to wheel battle. Had Jenson been able to make the move stick, or even worse, had they clipped wheels and taken each other off, the effect could have been very damaging on McLaren's season. A disaster so narrowly avoided - that's what Lewis was thinking about on the podium i'm sure.

I can see a change of driver line up at Red Bull next season.

No driver, no matter how bad the circumstances, walks away from a title contending car, but i reckon Mark must be strongly feeling like he wants to. For me, Horner has completely mis-managed this from start to finish and it could be a title-defining moment in the season.

[rixalex]

so what do you guys think of the points system now given that we have had a few races gone, and that the WDC is wide open?

Change in points system has if anything spread things out more. Using the old system things would have been even closer. The relative difference between most drivers though would be pretty much exactly the same as it is now. Only thing now is you need to be a master mathemetician to calculate all the permutations. Going to be a nightmare if things are close come the last race.

Wish they went back to the old old system of top 6 drivers scoring points. In those days it really meant something to score.

[Donnyboy]

I think Jenson chose not to understand the coded message.

I think you are probably right, and i think it was this issue that caused Lewis's winning celebration to be so incredibly subdued, to the point you could almost have been forgiven for thinking he had lost! I think he was in a state of shock. He had been told to slow down and bring the car in safely and that his team mate was doing the same, for him to suddenly find himself in a full on, wheel to wheel battle. Had Jenson been able to make the move stick, or even worse, had they clipped wheels and taken each other off, the effect could have been very damaging on McLaren's season. A disaster so narrowly avoided - that's what Lewis was thinking about on the podium i'm sure.

I can see a change of driver line up at Red Bull next season.

No driver, no matter how bad the circumstances, walks away from a title contending car, but i reckon Mark must be strongly feeling like he wants to. For me, Horner has completely mis-managed this from start to finish and it could be a title-defining moment in the season.

Webber handled it very diplomatically during the post race interview, when asked about the incident. But did you see Hamilton ask him about it when Button was talking? It looked like Mark was gestering with his hands that Vettel took him out with a swerve. And for RBR to take sides with Vettel to me, shows that they intend to stick with Vettel for the long haul.

[rixalex]

Webber handled it very diplomatically during the post race interview, when asked about the incident.

Agreed, although at the end there i couldn't work out from his facial expression whether he was going to burst out crying or simply burst. A lot of emotions going on either way, and it was clear the last place he wanted to be at that moment in time was in front of the cameras being grilled about it.

And for RBR to take sides with Vettel to me, shows that they intend to stick with Vettel for the long haul.

Before this incident i would have said "yes", "assuming that they can keep him". He's still hot property no doubt and Ferrari must still have him high on their list, but this sort of an incident certainly hasn't done him any favours.

[Mosha]

Was it Ron Dennis or Frank Williams who said. "They can race, as long as they don't take one another out of the race."? Or some thing like that.