Thai Govt Likely To Enforce State Of Emergency On Top Of ISA

[Publicus]

From my point of view a declaration of "A State of Emergency" is a risky move for the people in power. When you consider the facts it might backfire on the present government and lead to a split in the army. Non-commissioned officers and other ranks would be made up of a large number of men who come from rural areas. And for a soldier to take up arms against his own people....thats a he11 of a thing to ask, and tough for them to do.

And those same soldiers may well ask, why are we so hard on the Reds when last year the Yellows did what they did with impunity?

Yes, conscription collects the underclass of uneducated (Prathom 6) or the undereducated who might get to Mathayom 3, but this demographic of the general population is readily open to indoctrination and inculcation in the traditional military and institutional values within the framework of military discipline and the heirarchy the of military command structure, which is based on the deferential preconditioning of the tradtional heirarchy of the society, culture of the civilization itself.

When ever in the past have the thoroughly indoctrinated and disciplined rank and file soldiers drawn from the peasentry declined or refused to obey their commanders and their orders, which are issued by generals and officers in the chain of command as a matter of military disclipline under penalty of being shot for disobeying orders given in the defense of the ultimate institution and of the country itself?

Moreover, special reliable units are trained to a higher level of discipline and loyalty for use in the most dangerous and desperate situations. During the Songkran riots by the Redshirts, for example, the government brought in troops from the fiercely loyal take no prisoners Nakorn Rachasima garrison, troops from a garrison which in the mid 80s had been led by Gen-then PM Prem against rebellious Bangkok garrison commanders who had attempted what quickly became known as the failed April 1st fool's coup.

One musn't count on the peasant argument among the rank and file to provide any support for Thaksin and his gang now or ever.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Publicus

[cougar52]

You clearly don't read the news. The red shirted leaders have made it clear they intend to cripple the city of Bangkok INDEFINITELY by blocking major roads. Is that what you call peaceful, disturbing the lives of millions of people, and potentially crippling the entire country? Get real.

QUOTE(from article):"Veera Musikapong, another leader, will address the rally today and deliver an ultimatum for Abhisit to dissolve the House and call a snap election."

And why not? This is not a democratically elected government. I don't support the red shirts - but having said that you must surely have some concerns about how this governemt came to power in the first place.

Further the army acted extra-judicially in their support last April. I.E. Din Daeng.

Actually, Abhisit was democratically elected. Why not a snap election? Is that your idea of democracy that an angry mob can demand an election anytime they fancy? Under threat of basically destroying the economy of the entire country by blocking the capital indefinitely? I won't use the T word, but I want to.

If I was a blind man and could not see any color, this seems like a trip through history by about 2 years..dejavu. I won't use the Sondhi word, but I want to.

[mazeltov]

From my point of view a declaration of "A State of Emergency" is a risky move for the people in power. When you consider the facts it might backfire on the present government and lead to a split in the army. ...

the current situation is a result and the backfire of the 2006 coup.

Abhisit talked a couple of times on various occasions about a possible dissolution of the house and a snap election. i think the reds could live with that. what he could lose? the argument to protect the democracy from the street mob isn't very strong. it is spoiled by the coup and the yellow action in 2008 and Kasit as FM for example.

but it must no go that far, Abhisit still have a good chance to sit all out and wait while reds must stay peaceful to be convincing until they have to go home and cannot maintain the mass protest any longer. the challenge for the authorities is to keep any third party interference under control, who might be up to a little bit action too. (and not using such disruption as smokescreen and reason for a crackdown)

SoE a la please go home now, plant some rice and be peaceful, our nation have to move forward or if you don't wanna hear we will arrest everybody will not work out.

trying to bring them down with SoE in full force and with full power is very risky as you said. it will be nasty, violent and the question is if all parts of the army or every soldier really want to do that. it would be also only a temporary solution to remove the red shirts out of the street of bangkok for the next week. the problem is still there and the damage for the civil society will be much more deeper. that way you can also create some real terrorist cells that will car bomb some authority official now and then.

there is a big danger with the SoE.

[Publicus]

It however remains necessary to declare the State of Emergency so that Thaksin and his Redshirts can be swept aside once and for all. Only then can the dispossessed rural poor begin to regroup, reorganize and find among themselves a Lech Walensa or a Vaclav Havel, or an Aung San Su Kyi.......however, either a Nelson Mandella or a Barak Obama is I'm afraid beyond the capabilities of Thai culture, society or civilization for at least another 50 or 75 years.

Please don't wish an Obama on any country. There's not enough money in the whole for that. He' spent more in 1 year than all the other presidents combined.

So you're a Republican or at the least some kind of fiscal fascist when it comes to US politics and government and also believe Thaksin is the definition of democracy in Thailand, that the Redshirts are as wise and as selfless as Thaksin himself along with his public minded and public spirited Redshirt organizers. At the risk of getting a bit off topic, I suppose you might think Richard Nixon was also a forsightful genious who was in fact misunderstood and railroaded by a prejudiced and illegitimate political system and the unique constitutional process of a democratic government.

Let's rather stick to the topic of the thread, which is the state of affairs and emergency in Thailand and the discussion of its immediate and long term future. Yu wanna talk to me about your problems with the historically transformative President Barak Obama of the United States, send a PM.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Publicus

[Jerrytheyoung]

ISA is not well perceived already: Poll in BP shows than two thirds are against. So the State of Emergency may backfire with probably some consequences on an already shaking coalition....

interesting day to observe.....

[webfact]

One off-topic post deleted.

[WAERTH]

QUOTE(from article):"Veera Musikapong, another leader, will address the rally today and deliver an ultimatum for Abhisit to dissolve the House and call a snap election."

And why not? This is not a democratically elected government. I don't support the red shirts - but having said that you must surely have some concerns about how this governemt came to power in the first place.

Further the army acted extra-judicially in their support last April. I.E. Din Daeng.

I see. So you fault the army for moving in and poreventing the disaster that would have occurred if the redshirts had successfully exploded a gasoline tanker in front of residential housing at Dindaeng last April. That seems to be what you are saying. That rather than the army acting to prevent more murders by the redshirts they should have allowed it. Sorry, the real world doesn't work that way, and people here were very happy when the redshirts were run out of BKK.

As for democratically elected, this government was formed just like the redshirt governments, by forming coalitions. The parties in the coalition were composed of individuals elected, so how was it not democratically elected.

Hey granuaile - I agree with you. I abhor violence. But eleven or so red shirts were shot down (fatally) at Din Daeng last April BEFORE any gasoline tanker was comandeered. Who knows what led to what.

This is not a democratically elected government. The red shirts are right in demanding an election.

I was there and watched the whole show and have the pictures to prove it .... NO ONE WAS KILLED AT DIN DAENG ......

W

[nickynomatesbkk]

What a difference twenty-four hours makes. This time yesterday the total number of red shirts in BKK at each of the six meeting points was reported as being woefully low (well less than 10,000 ).

Now with intelligence reporting that there has been a massive increase in numbers over the last twenty-four hours the government - or sources close to it - are reporting that a state of emergency may be declared sometime tomorrow on top of the ISA.

It's still a peaceful demonstration. Up to now there have been absolutely NO reports of violence.

What are the government scared of? Numbers.

Just what i was thinking

The government have tried every trick they can do so far.

[khunjamespittman]

Last year the Election Committee found the PPP party guilty of election fraud. And very conveniently the Democrat party was given a free reign to form a coalition government in their place. This was all by design.

You're right, it was by design. Although not some ridiculous conspiracy theory like you suggest, but because that is how parliamentary systems work. Several groups that had formed a coalition government with the PPP decided to leave the coalition to separate themselves from the corruption of the PPP and decided to form a new coalition with the Democrats. That is how the system is designed, and how it is done in countries throughout the world.

Remember, the PPP were never the majority, they teamed up with smaller factions and formed a coalition government. The Democrats did the same. That is how a parliamentary system works.

I suggest that you do a little rsearch on how incidents of "no confidence" is handled in all other parlimentary govenments is handled. I further suggest thatif you do this you will find that early elections are held.

Misinformation is a dangerous thing.

[brahmburgers]

Message to government officials: Stay cool.

Abhisit's government is not threatened in any real sense.

The Red Shirt rally will grow a bit more, and then subside.

Let the Reds shake and bake and throw off some froth and frustration.

Then they'll go back to where they reside.

Security forces: Stay calm. That's your smartest option.

[Credo]

Is the government trying to prevent violence or create it?

It seems like they are over reacting.

[tominbkk]

Some pretty uptight views here, but how many people posting actually have the right to vote in an Thai Government election?

People are discussing it from an observers point of view. If one actually had to be capable of direct participation to be able to discuss something, professional sports would not exist.

Haha Good One, CDN..... *snap*!!!!!

[Sunderland]

Peaceful so far. If the people do have the right to protest and march peacefully, then what is to stop them marching around Bangkok later today? Isn't that the same as we see in Europe?

A crackdown now before any violence has occurred will inflame the situation. Even if they drive the red shirts off the streets, it will not bring an end to the anti-government feeling. And there most certainly is anti-government feeling out there, even if it is not shown in the number of people on the streets.

I, like many others who have posted, do not believe that Thaksin is a fit and suitable leader for Thailand, but I do think that the Thai population deserve the chance to settle all these continual protests and disruptions at the ballot box as soon as possible. If it is the will of the majority to have Thaksin back in charge, then fair enough. The country belongs to Thai people, not us.

If the government is well supported and more importantly the coalition is strong, then they have nothing to fear by going to the polls. But is that the case? I don't think so.

[exalll]

Last year the Election Committee found the PPP party guilty of election fraud. And very conveniently the Democrat party was given a free reign to form a coalition government in their place. This was all by design.

You're right, it was by design. Although not some ridiculous conspiracy theory like you suggest, but because that is how parliamentary systems work. Several groups that had formed a coalition government with the PPP decided to leave the coalition to separate themselves from the corruption of the PPP and decided to form a new coalition with the Democrats. That is how the system is designed, and how it is done in countries throughout the world.

Remember, the PPP were never the majority, they teamed up with smaller factions and formed a coalition government. The Democrats did the same. That is how a parliamentary system works.

I suggest that you do a little rsearch on how incidents of "no confidence" is handled in all other parlimentary govenments is handled. I further suggest thatif you do this you will find that early elections are held.

Misinformation is a dangerous thing.

I suggest YOU do a little research or, more likely, stop trying to twist facts to suit your own ends. A vote of no confidence is brought before a parliament by opposition parties against the party (or parties) in power. If they win, then naturally parliament is dissolved and new elections called. That is not what happened here, as I suspect you know. The main party in power was faced with dissolution by the courts due to electoral fraud; their coalition partners deserted them, allowing another party to form a new coalition government. Such coalitions happen all the time in all parliamentary democracies when there is no single party with an absolute majority.

[animatic]

The straight line political spectrum which has left and right at the extreme ends easily can become a circle which when closed joins the left and right together as one and the same. This is what we see with Thaksin and his Redshirts. The PAD meanwhile is simply a mangling of Plato's Republic into an attempt to preserve the ancien regime.

Present Thai leaders such as Abhisit and Korn et al are perhaps a somewhat intermediate transitional generation which, we could hope, over more time could produce better leaders of quality, which would mark a sharp or even radical departure from the class of political tyrants that defined politics/government post WW2 and from the class of political clowns that have defined politics and government post the Vietnam War.

Even if Abhisit were dumped (fell on his sword) as a consequence of present Redshirt campaigning, and if he were to be succeeded by say, Chuan, even that would represent a better quality of leadership than exists in parliament whether the present one or in a propesctive one.

It however remains necessary to declare the State of Emergency so that Thaksin and his Redshirst can be swept aside once and for all. Only then can the dispossessed rural poor begin to regroup, reorganize and find among themselves a Lech Walesa or a Valcav Havel, or an Aung San Su Kyi.......a Nelson Mandella or a Barak Obama is I'm afraid beyond the capabilities of Thai culture, society or civilization for at least another 50 or 75 years.

Please don't wish an Obama on any country. There's not enough money in the whole for that. He' spent more in 1 year than all the other presidents combined.

Off topic claptrap.

Obama was left a huge bill to pay 'by Bush, S.O.P. G.O.P. procedures;

Can't call the Dems 'tax and spend if you haven't left them a gapping hole to dig the country out of.

Similar to Abhisit and Korn getting the myopically inept handling of the economy by PPP to deal with.

[granuaile]

Early on they were dragging drivers from their cars and beating them at Victory Monument for heckling them. They remind me of the SA in Germany during the 1930s.

The jews were heckling the SA in Germany?

He's talking about the tactics of bullying and public displays intended to intimidate in general, not that the situations were exactly the same.

I must say, now that we are comparing to Germany, the red shirt thugs really do remind me of Nazi brown shirts. I realize that technically the government is to the right of the Thaksinista red shirts; however, I am only commented on thuggish behavior I have actually witnessed myself of red shirt thugs in Pattaya (and of course the media). I truly believe this is a very dangerous dark force that has been unleashed on this country by Thaksin. Of course, you can only take these comparisons so far, of course, the situations are different.

Regarding the left and right issue, realize that extreme political movements of the left and right are very similar. Hitler sold himself as a POPULIST national socialist; and now we know of course he was a rabid fascist. Similarly, Thaksin has positioned himself as a leftist populist. These right/left labels hardly matter when you are dealing with dictatorial personalities.

I definitely think that they are similar, in personalities and style (both the redshirts and their leadership). I can understand why Bulmercke has such strong feelings, since she met people involved who told her their story (whether truth or not truth, whether they were repeating what they were told or actually saw the events themselves or were just told of them by the redshirt propaganda machine, I have also heard of the photos and I have seen refutations of them here.

I can't say I know all the facts of last April, just what I heard from my Thai friends who were here - I was in the US at the time but I stayed in touch with my friends here daily. In fact I was winding down my job and preparing to retire to come back here for good. But I do know that my frieends were unable to go about their daily lives, some were threatened and shoved by redshirts, and they felt a constant threat of personal danger. But I don't understand why some people support the redshirts, both defending their actions and seemingly blindly embracing their agenda when their real agenda is on the signs and tee-shirts. I felt that the government and army were very justified last April, even if they did shoot demonstrators. They were a violent mob threatening the lives and property of both Bangkok residents and government officials, of the soldiers that were doing their job, if I were involved in such an action I would accept there is a risk to me as well.

I don't know what will happen this year, though I hope and pray for peaceful days and demonstrations. That said, given the rhetoric already expressed the government has to be prepared and if that means declaring a state of emergency then they should. Perhaps it will save lives. Perhaps it will motivate the redshirts to remain peaceful. And if people do get shot, active participants should realize that is a possibility and that they take that risk when engaging in violent acts against people and soldiers. I don't want to see anyone killed, I don't want to see anyone injured, but the citizens and residents of Bangkok have a right to live their lives, and the army and the government both have a responsibility not give in to mob action. I think a state of emergency is a prudent act and if the government invokes it then they should be commended for taking proactive measures rather than waiting till things get uglier.

[Old Man River]

What a difference twenty-four hours makes. This time yesterday the total number of red shirts in BKK at each of the six meeting points was reported as being woefully low (well less than 10,000 ).

Now with intelligence reporting that there has been a massive increase in numbers over the last twenty-four hours the government - or sources close to it - are reporting that a state of emergency may be declared sometime tomorrow on top of the ISA.

It's still a peaceful demonstration. Up to now there have been absolutely NO reports of violence.

What are the government scared of? Numbers.

The government are concerned with the violent rhetoric being thrown around on stage by the Reds' leaders. If it was false bravado by individual protesters then no problem, but it is the call from leaders on stage and by Thaksin in his phone hookups. He doesn't call for protests. He wants people to fight and says he will pay them back.

Abhisit needs laws in place to give him the power to quickly call in the Army if this thing gets out of control. It is the right thing to do. Roaming bands of out of control thugs is a real risk. While many of us that live here in Bangkok do not want violence, we do feel safer knowing that Abhisit is in control with the ability to quickly call in the Army to quell this if need be.

Of course, if there were roaming bands of thugs in Loei or thereabouts, I may take a different view, but when it is in your own backyard it gives you a different perspective.

[kraxlhuber]

You clearly don't read the news. The red shirted leaders have made it clear they intend to cripple the city of Bangkok INDEFINITELY by blocking major roads. Is that what you call peaceful, disturbing the lives of millions of people, and potentially crippling the entire country? Get real.

SMART ALLEXES ,YE ALL.

THE THAI POPULATION AND ASIAN IN GENERAL ARE NOT FIT FOR DEM-CRACY.

SHOW ME ONE SUCCESSFUL COUNTRY IN ASIA WHO SUCCEEDED WIT ONE MAN ONE VOTE.?

Continue to promote a Demo_crazy wit handing out money to poor farmers and do no gooders which makes the majority of the blood-Reds.

is it the will of 60 million thai,s to be coerced to bow to the ill-will of some paid 80 000 simpleminded non educated farmers and job-less chaff.

[granuaile]

The red shirts contain people united for a common goal, where else would you get former communists lined up alongside outright fascists, and of course in between millions of ordinary folk just wanting a better life for themselves, shame that the person they see as their salvation is a liar, megalomaniac, criminal, the etc's are long. The comparisons with the Brownshirt s are valid in my view because if I listen to some of the leaders speeches the rhetoric is not dissimilar, the time and place is different.

the message is the same

Under some circumstances I might feel a sympathy for the redshirts and their cause, but it is hard to feel sympathetic for a group that is rallying behind a corrupt billionaire under the cover of many just grievances. Ultimately it is not those grievances that bring them here, however, it is one individual, with at least some evidence they were paid to come.

[anotherpeter]

Please don't wish an Obama on any country. There's not enough money in the whole for that. He' spent more in 1 year than all the other presidents combined.

Did you ever sit back and think (or do some research) about WHY he might have done that?

And why most western governments in the whole world also did the same thing?

But this post isn't about the Obama and the GFC, so we need to start a separate thread for this discussion.

[Unfaithful]

It's on topic.

The yellows did not close the airports, AOT and Thaksin closed it.

[khunjamespittman]

Some may be wondering why the reds don't just wait for the next round of elections in 2011 without all this hoo-ha.

It is because Thaksin cannot face the thought that he may not be dictating events.

Sunday is the day he hopes to make a decisive push, but this time the the other side are ready.

The reds are heading for a brick wall and will either disperse or be dispersed.

No doubt they are hoping to capture a public building and challenge the State forces to get them out.

Oh, and get ready for the accusations of state brutality.

Just like last Songkran the residents of Bangkok will not be too keen to have reds using their neighbouthoods as a war zone.

And then in their frustration the red basball bats will come out.

Attacking the locals. Again.

Now there is a good thought...waiting for the next election, which is only a year away. There is no good reasons for all this crap right now. You want democracy to work like it is supposed to, then waiting for the next election would have been the thing to do.

I hope that the government manages to handle this situatioon and doesn't give in to a bunch of thugs, because I sure don't want a bunch of red thugs running the Country into the ground

You know there is perhaps another view than yours.

Since the existing government came to power as result of the courts essentually declaring a no confidence vote on the previous government, the normal process for parlimentary governments would have been to hold a new election but that did not occur. It seems that the rational thing to do is fix the error that occurred and hold an election in the normal way that parlimentary governments have been doing for years. If such an election was internationally observed and election problems were addressed transparently in front of the international observers the normal accepted process of parlimentary elections would be preserved and all Thai voters would be assured that the results were valid.

Currently there is an intractible situation where enough iregularities have occured to cause lack of trust by all sides.

The return to rational discussion and correcting past errors to re-build trust should start immediately.

All the name calling won't get there.

I believe all side want peace and prosperity for Thailand. A way must be found to figure out how to get there peacefully.

[granuaile]

ISA is not well perceived already: Poll in BP shows than two thirds are against. So the State of Emergency may backfire with probably some consequences on an already shaking coalition....

interesting day to observe.....

I believe I saw that poll, which basically asked (as I remember) whether the respondent felt that ISA was invoked for political reasons or to maintain order, with 2/3 responding to maintain order. That seemed rather supportive to me. However I can't find it this morning to check it. Need more coffee. I believe that the residents of BKK however stand behind the government in the ISA and will do so an SoE is declared.

[granuaile]

Message to government officials: Stay cool.

Abhisit's government is not threatened in any real sense.

The Red Shirt rally will grow a bit more, and then subside.

Let the Reds shake and bake and throw off some froth and frustration.

Then they'll go back to where they reside.

Security forces: Stay calm. That's your smartest option.

I think so too, but with the tools in place to deal with it if violence erupts.

[anotherpeter]

SMART ALLEXES ,YE ALL.

THE THAI POPULATION AND ASIAN IN GENERAL ARE NOT FIT FOR DEM-CRACY.

SHOW ME ONE SUCCESSFUL COUNTRY IN ASIA WHO SUCCEEDED WIT ONE MAN ONE VOTE.?

Continue to promote a Demo_crazy wit handing out money to poor farmers and do no gooders which makes the majority of the blood-Reds.

is it the will of 60 million thai,s to be coerced to bow to the ill-will of some paid 80 000 simpleminded non educated farmers and job-less chaff.

Malaysia seems to be doing OK ...

But no country has ever brought in democracy in only 10 years. It's a learning process.

The problem in Thailand is that it was hijacked by Thaksin. He used the non-educated farmers to steal billions from the rest of Thailand.

Even if you go with the argument that Thailand is still run by the Bangkok elite and the army, at least the people have some say in what happens. And as time goes on the non-educated farmers will learn more about how democracy should work. Actually, it's amazing how little some Bangkok office workers know about democracy too.

[pooket]

Is that your idea of democracy that an angry mob can demand an election anytime they fancy?

Which is equaled by the idea of democracy that the army can pull a military coup anytime they fancy against anyone they fancy.

A very poor argument. First the coup was specifically targetted against Thaksin, not 'anybody'. Second, all the reds have to do is disassociate themselves from Thaksin and thirdly your attempt to whitewash any red violence in advance is silly. Shouting democracy from inside the pocket of Thaksin is not very impressive.

A coup generally targets somebody, you're right. But it still doesn't give you the right to pull off a coup whenever you want. basically what you have is the army ruling the country. The PM is just the puppet and if the army doesn't like him anymore, they'll make another coup and put a new puppet there. Sure, they will let the people vote, but if they don't like the puppet, they'll get rid of the puppet, no matter if the people elected him or not.

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES! Thank you! Somebody on this website finally "gets it". In Thailand, you need the suppoprt of the military to have legitimacy. I'm not saying it's right or wrong - it's just the way it is and has been. That's why all the people on here talking about "true" democracy make me sick. You cannot think that Thai democracy works the way it works back home. Whether we find it acceptable or not, the military is involved and always will be.

[krakatoa]

Yes, it's puzzling. ISA was already waving a red flag at a bull (you know there's a pun in there just begging to be made), but full martial law will seriously scare business and tourists away and for no good reason. Possibly the military wants it, and Abhisit doesn't have much choice other than to accept?

Tourists are already staying away in their droves. A friend is staying a hotel on Sukhumvit which generally runs at 97 - 98 % occupancy. Yesterday and this morning it's less than half that.

Thaksin is already inciting sedition and treason from abroad.

Thaksin should be either eliminated from the equation or if possible brought back to face a riring squad for treason. Anything else is to good for him.

[Sunderland]

SMART ALLEXES ,YE ALL.

THE THAI POPULATION AND ASIAN IN GENERAL ARE NOT FIT FOR DEM-CRACY.

SHOW ME ONE SUCCESSFUL COUNTRY IN ASIA WHO SUCCEEDED WIT ONE MAN ONE VOTE.?

Continue to promote a Demo_crazy wit handing out money to poor farmers and do no gooders which makes the majority of the blood-Reds.

is it the will of 60 million thai,s to be coerced to bow to the ill-will of some paid 80 000 simpleminded non educated farmers and job-less chaff.

Malaysia seems to be doing OK ...

But no country has ever brought in democracy in only 10 years. It's a learning process.

The problem in Thailand is that it was hijacked by Thaksin. He used the non-educated farmers to steal billions from the rest of Thailand.

Even if you go with the argument that Thailand is still run by the Bangkok elite and the army, at least the people have some say in what happens. And as time goes on the non-educated farmers will learn more about how democracy should work. Actually, it's amazing how little some Bangkok office workers know about democracy too.

I think you will find that Thaksin is not the only one who has been stealing billions from the rest of Thailand. That should be the driving force behind the protests. However, until the reds drop Thaksin, their criticism of the elite sounds too hypocritical.

[bkkjames]

Coincidence that power went off at ten (the time the pm was supposed to go live)? Upper suk, anyone else with power issues?

[kraxlhuber]

What a difference twenty-four hours makes. This time yesterday the total number of red shirts in BKK at each of the six meeting points was reported as being woefully low (well less than 10,000 ).

Now with intelligence reporting that there has been a massive increase in numbers over the last twenty-four hours the government - or sources close to it - are reporting that a state of emergency may be declared sometime tomorrow on top of the ISA.

It's still a peaceful demonstration. Up to now there have been absolutely NO reports of violence.

What are the government scared of? Numbers.

The government are concerned with the violent rhetoric being thrown around on stage by the Reds' leaders. If it was false bravado by individual protesters then no problem, but it is the call from leaders on stage and by Thaksin in his phone hookups. He doesn't call for protests. He wants people to fight and says he will pay them back.

Abhisit needs laws in place to give him the power to quickly call in the Army if this thing gets out of control. It is the right thing to do. Roaming bands of out of control thugs is a real risk. While many of us that live here in Bangkok do not want violence, we do feel safer knowing that Abhisit is in control with the ability to quickly call in the Army to quell this if need be.

Of course, if there were roaming bands of thugs in Loei or thereabouts, I may take a different view, but when it is in your own backyard it gives you a different perspective.

democratic measures(ments) and policys do not apply for a country ruled previuosly by a despote ,now chased and run for his live.

If money buys votes then its mob rule.First sell the daughters ,then also the dignity,and all else cashable.

Same goes for a demonstration,everywhere such a demo must be approved with exact routes marked on a map or barricades.

The area arount parliament and government house incl. palast ofthe king and his family must be a banned mile zone,no protest inside the zone,no violence.

Thai's are such hippocrates, saving their face(faces) to look good in the eyes of Investors which in the mayority are blatant speculators and ripp-offs, punting their money on the stockmarket/gold and labour and exporting free of tax their ill-gotten loot,

now thats MY OPINION,Besides those speculators are sitting safely in their bistros and sipping a Red Bull with wodka and watching the news about the red march.

The time will come soon and the reds are hunted like in Mc Carthys time until they retreat into the burrows they have emerged from.

In a country where the minimum labor wage a day is a can of beer for you and me,no wonder there is undrest,

besides Thailand is one of the most lucrative markets for BMW and mercedes etc.etc. makes you wonder where that money is spinning off from??