Thai Pm Rejects Protesters' Demand Amid March On Barracks

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

nice to see the folks that just don't understand parliamentary democracy are still at it!
Then minimizing the damage that Thaksin has done to the country ... and then comparing Thailand to France? OI!

The reds get their chance in just over a year to try and dig in at the trough again. By then hopefully Thaksin will be serving his 2 years in jail and the other cases against him will be able to proceed.

I was not comparing Thailand political situation to that of France , I was comparing it to a circus

From where i stand , it certainly look that way

Not minimising anything , get yourself a pair of glasses .

Lets wait and see ...

animatic · March 17, 2010

Back to the core subject , we hear time and time again that the red shirts "discredit themselves" by protesting , that they are the stooges of Mr T , that they are thugs and other non sense by what i can only describe as facists .
2 years ago or so yellow shirts occupied the BKK airport for 9 days , violating one of the basic human right , the right for people to travel as they please when they please . And for what ? To remove a governement accused (rightly it seems) of buying votes , when that has been standard operating procedure in Thailand since democracy exist . If such why red shirts should not have the right to demonstrate , they are also thai citizens , its their country and their life . The right to demonstrate peacefully is ALSO one basic human right . By no mean they are thugs .. I also dont see how they discredit themselves in any ways .

Mr T is the first PM that brought attention to the rural population , it is hardly suprising that they recognise him as a leader . They dont care on whether Mr T sold his telecom company without paying taxes , even though its illegal . What they care about is their life and their future . I dont see any of the red shirts putting up a slogan asking for the money to be returned to Mr T , but then maybe am blind

Thank you

I don't think most people were saying that they were discrediting themselves ONLY for protesting. It was more about *some* of what they were protesting for - to bring down the government and bring Thaksin back - and how they were going to protest - the violence suggested by some of the red leaders.

Now that the reds have handled themselves peacefully, they have done a credit to their cause. Even the 'symbolic' blood pouring protests, however it is seen o/s, has raised awareness.

The protestors seem to have been distancing themselves from Thaksin a little since the protests began (Did he call in last night?). Also they delayed the time of their procession to Abhisit's house in Suhkumvit "to avoid traffic congestion".

They won't get what their original aim was to bring down the government. But they have brought more awareness to their plight.

Well you have not seen the anti red shirts haters in this forum

The red shirts have the right to ask for the governement to step down if they feel that the current governement is not adressing their plight . Nothing wrong with that . On whether they succeed or not is a different story .. entirely.

In fact everybody wins , the red shirt by bringing attention to their cause peacefully and Abhasisit by showig restrain and thus remaining in power ... for the time beeing.

Yes for the red shirts distancing themselves from Thaksin is important . At the very least Thaksin is too controversial .

Finally it would be good for the thai circus of changing governement at will to stop . A change of the constitution , not one spearheaded by the military as the last one , seems in order

So their aim is to get more money for their work and live a better life in Issane,

and they think democracy through PTP and Thaksin will get it for them.

But their way to go about it is to cost the WHOLE nation more money paying

to deal with their overly large and illogically design protest strategy.

So essentially now the country has less money to spend on fixing things to make it better.

And they have reduced motivation to help them improve their lives because they created

a climate of fear from their actions. And lowered the image of Thailand in the international

views by their voodoo face saving antics. So how did they possibly WIN anything?

Fortunately Abhisit does listen and in between the Pro-Thaksin rants and PTP posturing,

I am sure he heard their pleas for help from the less zealotous factions.

Thing is I think he knew and has been reacting positively to those voices all along,

but that action is hidden from Reds and their families by PTP and Puyai malevolence and information control.

That is essentially the word I get from friends living in the north,

and discretely being anti Thaksin, but still interacting with Reds and their followers up there.

Being peaceful was working... until the blood,

then they set back their multiple causes for years.

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

LOL
It's "not about Thaksin"? Yet he does his phone-ins to the rallies .. he finances the movement ... the leadership promises he will be able to return, will get his money back, etc etc etc ... but really it isn't about Thaksin!

So .... let him return and face charges .

Bottom line is this , if the majority of the thai ppl wants him or his party he or

his party will be elected .

If not then he or his party wont be elected , simple as that.

Unless Thailand is not democratic or another coup as usual .

Now you can hatch 50 memos in this forum , its not going to change that fact .

But if you want to reduce the risk then you have to adress the issues at the core of his popularity

by proposing an alternative .

Its as simple as that

animatic · March 17, 2010

Making up means for words are we now?

fascist noun

Definition: dictator

Synonyms: Nazi, authoritarian, autocrat, totalitarian, tyrant

----------------------------------------------

autocrat noun

Definition: dictator

Synonyms: Caesar, Fascist, Hitler, authoritarian, despot, overlord, totalitarian, tyrant

----------------------------------------------

dictator noun

Definition: absolute ruler

Synonyms: Hitler, absolutist, adviser, authoritarian, autocrat, boss, chief, commander, despot, disciplinarian, fascist, leader, magnate, mogul, oligarch, oppressor, ringleader, slavedriver, totalitarian, tycoon, tyrant, usurper

----------------------------------------------

strongman noun

Definition: dictator

Synonyms: Big Brother, Hitler, absolutist, adviser, authoritarian, autocrat, boss*, chief, commander, despot, disciplinarian, fascist, fuhrer, leader, magnate, man on horseback, mogul, oligarch, oppressor, ringleader, slavedriver, totalitarian, tycoon, tyrant, usurper

* = informal/non-formal usage

Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus

Well gee, never saw 'Facist' and 'Intolerance' as synonymous anywhere...

Never saw a description of myself either.

----------------------------------------------

intolerance noun

Definition: lack of willingness to tolerate

Synonyms:

bigotry, dogmatism, narrow-mindedness, prejudice

----------------------------------------------

bias noun

Definition: belief in one way; partiality

Synonyms: bent, bigotry, chauvinism, disposition, favoritism, flash, head-set, illiberality, inclination, intolerance,

leaning, mind trip, mind-set, narrowmindedness, one-sidedness, penchant, preconception, predilection,

predisposition, preference, prejudice, prepossession, proclivity, proneness, propensity, spin,

standpoint, tendency, tilt, turn, unfairness, viewpoint

Notes:

a person's bias is based on facts,

but prejudice occurs without a person knowing or examining the facts

Antonyms: fairness, impartiality, justness

----------------------------------------------

discrimination noun

Definition: bias

Synonyms: bigotry, favoritism, hatred, inequity, injustice, intolerance, partiality, prejudice, unfairness, wrong

----------------------------------------------

fanaticism noun

Definition: overenthusiasm

Synonyms:

abandonment, arbitrariness, bias, bigotry, contumacy, dedication, devotion, dogma, enthusiasm, extremism, faction, frenzy, hatred, illiberality, immoderation, incorrigibility, infatuation, injustice, intolerance, madness, monomania, obsessiveness, obstinacy, partiality, partisanship, passion, prejudice, rage, single-mindedness, stubbornness, superstition, tenacity, transport, unfairness, unreasonableness, unruliness, violence, willfulness, zeal, zealotry

----------------------------------------------

Lots of great words, but one should endeavor to use them based on their meanings,

and not on presumed colloquial usages by a small circle of friends.

It is fine to have biases, but not so acceptable to have prejudices.

One can be discriminating and not be prejudiced

Edited March 17, 2010 by animatic

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

Back to the core subject , we hear time and time again that the red shirts "discredit themselves" by protesting , that they are the stooges of Mr T , that they are thugs and other non sense by what i can only describe as facists .
2 years ago or so yellow shirts occupied the BKK airport for 9 days , violating one of the basic human right , the right for people to travel as they please when they please . And for what ? To remove a governement accused (rightly it seems) of buying votes , when that has been standard operating procedure in Thailand since democracy exist . If such why red shirts should not have the right to demonstrate , they are also thai citizens , its their country and their life . The right to demonstrate peacefully is ALSO one basic human right . By no mean they are thugs .. I also dont see how they discredit themselves in any ways .

Mr T is the first PM that brought attention to the rural population , it is hardly suprising that they recognise him as a leader . They dont care on whether Mr T sold his telecom company without paying taxes , even though its illegal . What they care about is their life and their future . I dont see any of the red shirts putting up a slogan asking for the money to be returned to Mr T , but then maybe am blind

Thank you

I don't think most people were saying that they were discrediting themselves ONLY for protesting. It was more about *some* of what they were protesting for - to bring down the government and bring Thaksin back - and how they were going to protest - the violence suggested by some of the red leaders.

Now that the reds have handled themselves peacefully, they have done a credit to their cause. Even the 'symbolic' blood pouring protests, however it is seen o/s, has raised awareness.

The protestors seem to have been distancing themselves from Thaksin a little since the protests began (Did he call in last night?). Also they delayed the time of their procession to Abhisit's house in Suhkumvit "to avoid traffic congestion".

They won't get what their original aim was to bring down the government. But they have brought more awareness to their plight.

Well you have not seen the anti red shirts haters in this forum

The red shirts have the right to ask for the governement to step down if they feel that the current governement is not adressing their plight . Nothing wrong with that . On whether they succeed or not is a different story .. entirely.

In fact everybody wins , the red shirt by bringing attention to their cause peacefully and Abhasisit by showig restrain and thus remaining in power ... for the time beeing.

Yes for the red shirts distancing themselves from Thaksin is important . At the very least Thaksin is too controversial .

Finally it would be good for the thai circus of changing governement at will to stop . A change of the constitution , not one spearheaded by the military as the last one , seems in order

So their aim is to get more money for their work and live a better life in Issane,

and they think democracy through PTP and Thaksin will get it for them.

But their way to go about it is to cost the WHOLE nation more money paying

to deal with their overly large and illogically design protest strategy.

So essentially now the country has less money to spend on fixing things to make it better.

And they have reduced motivation to help them improve their lives because they created

a climate of fear from their actions. And lowered the image of Thailand in the international

views by their voodoo face saving antics. So how did they possibly WIN anything?

Fortunately Abhisit does listen and in between the Pro-Thaksin rants and PTP posturing,

I am sure he heard their pleas for help from the less zealotous factions.

Thing is I think he knew and has been reacting positively to those voices all along,

but that action is hidden from Reds and their families by PTP and Puyai malevolence and information control.

That is essentially the word I get from friends living in the north,

and discretely being anti Thaksin, but still interacting with Reds and their followers up there.

Being peaceful was working... until the blood,

then they set back their multiple causes for years.

Ok . Well let see at the next election what the thai people decides . Hard to predict

TAWP · March 17, 2010

Exactly ... Now the election of the chief executive (PM or President) by the whole of the nation rather then by corrupted politicians usually seems to be an answer whereby the CE is vested with enough moral authority to direct the military rather then the other way around . I dont know in USA but in France the military obeys the president because the president is elected by the nation
Now whether that would work for Thailand remains to be seen . But i do believe that the thai military probably would be far more willing to obey a popularly elected PM

No, the peoples election of chief executive is flawed and not a preferred thing imho. I prefer it then when a government is a coalition of several parties, that theoretically will make sure that not one very one-sided agenda is pushed upon the people back and forth every 4 years, but that a more balanced image of the populations wish is put forward. That is, if one is forced to have a democracy...

jdinasia · March 17, 2010

LOL
It's "not about Thaksin"? Yet he does his phone-ins to the rallies .. he finances the movement ... the leadership promises he will be able to return, will get his money back, etc etc etc ... but really it isn't about Thaksin!

So .... let him return and face charges .

Bottom line is this , if the majority of the thai ppl wants him or his party he or

his party will be elected .

If not then he or his party wont be elected , simple as that.

Unless Thailand is not democratic or another coup as usual .

Now you can hatch 50 memos in this forum , its not going to change that fact .

But if you want to reduce the risk then you have to adress the issues at the core of his popularity

by proposing an alternative .

Its as simple as that

Claiming it isn't about Thaksin shows the readers something.

Either you have no clue and have not seen the banners or heard the speeches.

or

You have heard the speeches and have a clue but are just trying to divert people from the truth.

And sorry --- there hasn't been a "Majority" asking for them since 2005 and in that election and the ones prior to it he violated the basic tenets of Democracy.

The last elections they didn't get 50% so it is a fair statement to say that the MAJORITY did NOT want PPP (a Thaksin crony party).

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

LOL
It's "not about Thaksin"? Yet he does his phone-ins to the rallies .. he finances the movement ... the leadership promises he will be able to return, will get his money back, etc etc etc ... but really it isn't about Thaksin!

So .... let him return and face charges .

Bottom line is this , if the majority of the thai ppl wants him or his party he or

his party will be elected .

If not then he or his party wont be elected , simple as that.

Unless Thailand is not democratic or another coup as usual .

Now you can hatch 50 memos in this forum , its not going to change that fact .

But if you want to reduce the risk then you have to adress the issues at the core of his popularity

by proposing an alternative .

Its as simple as that

Claiming it isn't about Thaksin shows the readers something.

Either you have no clue and have not seen the banners or heard the speeches.

or

You have heard the speeches and have a clue but are just trying to divert people from the truth.

And sorry --- there hasn't been a "Majority" asking for them since 2005 and in that election and the ones prior to it he violated the basic tenets of Democracy.

The last elections they didn't get 50% so it is a fair statement to say that the MAJORITY did NOT want PPP (a Thaksin crony party).

I believe the UDD with its "million-man march" began as a political movement to counter the machinations of the PAD and the Democrats, but I'm afraid it has now snowballed into an all-out class war. Essentially, the war is now between the haves and the have-nots. Instead of blaming it all on Thaksin, we should start to reflect and ask the right questions. Why have the poor chosen a morally compromised billionaire to be the leader of their movement? What have we done as a nation to cause these people from the rural provinces so much pain and suffering that they need to march on the capital to demand that their voices be heard? And have these people in the past been treated with the respect and fairness that all human beings deserve?

From : Bangkok Post

animatic · March 17, 2010

LOL
It's "not about Thaksin"? Yet he does his phone-ins to the rallies .. he finances the movement ... the leadership promises he will be able to return, will get his money back, etc etc etc ... but really it isn't about Thaksin!

So .... let him return and face charges .

Bottom line is this , if the majority of the thai ppl wants him or his party he or

his party will be elected .

If not then he or his party wont be elected , simple as that.

Unless Thailand is not democratic or another coup as usual .

Now you can hatch 50 memos in this forum , its not going to change that fact .

But if you want to reduce the risk then you have to adress the issues at the core of his popularity

by proposing an alternative .

Its as simple as that

Claiming it isn't about Thaksin shows the readers something.

Either you have no clue and have not seen the banners or heard the speeches.

or

You have heard the speeches and have a clue but are just trying to divert people from the truth.

And sorry --- there hasn't been a "Majority" asking for them since 2005 and in that election and the ones prior to it he violated the basic tenets of Democracy.

The last elections they didn't get 50% so it is a fair statement to say that the MAJORITY did NOT want PPP (a Thaksin crony party).

And the so called Majority Thaksin 'won' was really existing parties with leaders

like Chavalit, Banharn, Chalerm, Sanoh, Newin and others,

that Thaksin pre-purchased and relabeled FACTIONS.

So his minority party could LOOK like a bigger party.

Now that Thaksin has tumbled,

he couldn't keep those factions from returning to be parties, as they were before.

Maybe the party names, and party leader title holder names, have changed,

but the party STRONG MEN remain the same,

and the districts they control remain the same,

and the voting power/patronage being divided up and sold to highest bidder

remains the same.

See, the commercial marketing of power in Thailand is firmly ensconced,

and it is only by the much maligned forcefulness of Abhisit that these

power brokers are being kept in check, and the good cop bad cop machinations of Abhisit and Suthep.

That the Dems are jettisoning their own damaged goods early after being damaged,

and stand up to, and PISS OFF, the police hierarchy, and stand up to repeated attempts

by Thaksin and PTP to drum up false and misleading charges,

like Thaksins 'change sides before it's too late' speech this weekend,

that we actually move forward past these old types of political vultures,

with 20 years attempting to jigger the system their way.

The problem is not the monarchy related or surrounding old guard,

but the newer BUSINESS elites striving to profit over all other motivations.

Nothing much more dangerous than a NEW Capitalist, in a old world kow tow society,

trying to make and save face and move up the ladder of success.

Our leaders kept things calm very well this weekend, properly keeping order,

which is a fundamental base position job for ANY and ALL governments.

And they did it in a diffusing way, Thaksin would have been ; 'Off with their heads...' ok, hyperbole,

still he would NOT have been gentile... as we have seen multiple times from his past actions.

Besides he's more a 'We need a pig here."' Let me eat cake." kind of guy.

I would not want to be either of the '3 Buddies' this week,

because behind the scenes the red leadership is in big trouble.

And no amount of bloody face saving shenanagins

will hide that 900lb gorilla their corner.

Publicus · March 17, 2010

Thai parliamentary democracy was never successful but during the past decade it's been dysfunctional and more than that, counter productive.

No system of democratic politics and government can function or succeed when the losing side actively refuses to accept the electoral outcome and actively campaigns to collapse the government which is comprised of the winners, whether the government is of a single winning party or a coalition of parties - and regardless of whether the protesting side is yellow, red or orange.

Despite Abhisit's best efforts, especially during the present circus act and voodoo rituals, Thai democracy is kaput.

Only if the Reds go home for the rest of the year, Thaksin quits his mad campaigning, and people accept the outcome of the next election can some semblance of democracy be restored.

animatic · March 17, 2010

I believe the UDD with its "million-man march" began as a political movement to counter the machinations of the PAD and the Democrats, but I'm afraid it has now snowballed into an all-out class war. Essentially, the war is now between the haves and the have-nots. Instead of blaming it all on Thaksin, we should start to reflect and ask the right questions. Why have the poor chosen a morally compromised billionaire to be the leader of their movement? What have we done as a nation to cause these people from the rural provinces so much pain and suffering that they need to march on the capital to demand that their voices be heard? And have these people in the past been treated with the respect and fairness that all human beings deserve?
From : Bangkok Post

This isn't some new apparition this REd March.

Thaksin was using many of these same players while he was in office

to keep pressure on those being critical of him. Many of the same leaders

were used for 10 years now; different groupings different attack strategies but same crew..

Class war... when was there NOT a class war?

it is endemic to kow tow societies.

67 million class wars day in and day out in Thailand,m

How high was his wai? How high must min be? How long?

Where is my status to his? it is endless, except in western circles they might relax a little...

Suddenly the have nots have a voice... not so,

there have been many grass roots complaints heard in Bkk.

The problem again rests with the POLITICAL CLASS

Making short term political capital at the expense of long term

financial benefit for the greatest number.

So they get treated with disrespect not by Bangkok per se

but the political machine that controls their areas not looking for anything

that really benefits them, but shifting the blame to anyone better off than them,

yet never specifically names and never specifically delineated.

Their OWN LEADERS are the abusers, and try to pass the blame upward.

Bait and switch too... help us and we will help you... ( after w help ourselves of course)

Education is the answer, and not red academies either.

But allowing all in the North and north east to learn ALL about their land,

not just what their leadership wants them to know about.

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

Thai parliamentary democracy was never successful but during the past decade it's been dysfunctional and more than that, counter productive.
No system of democratic politics and government can function or succeed when the losing side actively refuses to accept the electoral outcome and actively campaigns to collapse the government which is comprised of the winners, whether the government is of a single winning party or a coalition of parties - and regardless of whether the protesting side is yellow, red or orange.

Despite Abhisit's best efforts, especially during the present circus act and voodoo rituals, Thai democracy is kaput.

Only if the Reds go home for the rest of the year, Thaksin quits his mad campaigning, and people accept the outcome of the next election can some semblance of democracy be restored.

Yes i suppose we have to wait and see , but thats lots of "if's"

anotherpeter · March 17, 2010

It's nothing to do with the system in place. Corruption and coups were here long before they attempted democracy.

Well if the system in place has not brought an improvement , then perhaps its time to improve it , or change it

So that corruption and coups can ruin that too?

The electoral system doesn't need fixing. The corruption needs fixing.

You are right and wrong in my opinion . Its the system that creates the corruption . In a system where its the whole people who elects the PM , there is no need for the PM to pay bribes to remain in power . he just govern and gives instructions , its FOC LOL

People get paid to vote now. People will get paid to vote in any system. Maybe politicians shouldn't take bribes and people that are offered them should report it to the police ... Fantasy world, I know.

The people electing the PM gives the PM too much power. There needs to be checks and balances. One of the reasons Thaksin was dumped is because he was trying to remove some of those checks and balances.

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

I believe the UDD with its "million-man march" began as a political movement to counter the machinations of the PAD and the Democrats, but I'm afraid it has now snowballed into an all-out class war. Essentially, the war is now between the haves and the have-nots. Instead of blaming it all on Thaksin, we should start to reflect and ask the right questions. Why have the poor chosen a morally compromised billionaire to be the leader of their movement? What have we done as a nation to cause these people from the rural provinces so much pain and suffering that they need to march on the capital to demand that their voices be heard? And have these people in the past been treated with the respect and fairness that all human beings deserve?
From : Bangkok Post

This isn't some new apparition this REd March.

Thaksin was using many of these same players while he was in office

to keep pressure on those being critical of him. Many of the same leaders

were used for 10 years now; different groupings different attack strategies but same crew..

Class war... when was there NOT a class war?

it is endemic to kow tow societies.

67 million class wars day in and day out in Thailand,m

How high was his wai? How high must min be? How long?

Where is my status to his? it is endless, except in western circles they might relax a little...

Suddenly the have nots have a voice... not so,

there have been many grass roots complaints heard in Bkk.

The problem again rests with the POLITICAL CLASS

Making short term political capital at the expense of long term

financial benefit for the greatest number.

So they get treated with disrespect not by Bangkok per se

but the political machine that controls their areas not looking for anything

that really benefits them, but shifting the blame to anyone better off than them,

yet never specifically names and never specifically delineated.

Their OWN LEADERS are the abusers, and try to pass the blame upward.

Bait and switch too... help us and we will help you... ( after w help ourselves of course)

Education is the answer, and not red academies either.

But allowing all in the North and north east to learn ALL about their land,

not just what their leadership wants them to know about.

Point taken ...

Well at 50 millions bahts to switch side in the parliament , there is'nt that many ppl

better off anyway

yoshiwara · March 17, 2010

LOL
It's "not about Thaksin"? Yet he does his phone-ins to the rallies .. he finances the movement ... the leadership promises he will be able to return, will get his money back, etc etc etc ... but really it isn't about Thaksin!

So .... let him return and face charges .

Bottom line is this , if the majority of the thai ppl wants him or his party he or

his party will be elected .

If not then he or his party wont be elected , simple as that.

Unless Thailand is not democratic or another coup as usual .

Now you can hatch 50 memos in this forum , its not going to change that fact .

But if you want to reduce the risk then you have to adress the issues at the core of his popularity

by proposing an alternative .

Its as simple as that

Claiming it isn't about Thaksin shows the readers something.

Either you have no clue and have not seen the banners or heard the speeches.

or

You have heard the speeches and have a clue but are just trying to divert people from the truth.

And sorry --- there hasn't been a "Majority" asking for them since 2005 and in that election and the ones prior to it he violated the basic tenets of Democracy.

The last elections they didn't get 50% so it is a fair statement to say that the MAJORITY did NOT want PPP (a Thaksin crony party).

I believe the UDD with its "million-man march" began as a political movement to counter the machinations of the PAD and the Democrats, but I'm afraid it has now snowballed into an all-out class war. Essentially, the war is now between the haves and the have-nots. Instead of blaming it all on Thaksin, we should start to reflect and ask the right questions. Why have the poor chosen a morally compromised billionaire to be the leader of their movement? What have we done as a nation to cause these people from the rural provinces so much pain and suffering that they need to march on the capital to demand that their voices be heard? And have these people in the past been treated with the respect and fairness that all human beings deserve?

From : Bangkok Post

Commentators are rather coy when they use the term 'class war', mainly because they do not understand it.

'haves' and 'have nots' are not classes.

Also it is laughable that Thaksin's apologists try so hard to paint him into some 'Che Guevara' image as the liberator of the masses.

Thailand is rapidly developing as a capitalist economy albeit with a significant rural base.

In the transition, the developing bourgeoisie has come under stress for a multitude of reasons.

Thaksin represents a small split in the ruling class allied with parts of the petty-bourgeoisie which is opportunistically seeking allying itself with the peasant rump of the country.

His window was the perceived (and actual) weakness of the ruling elite.

His failure has been the inability to make real alliances with the industrial urban classes due to his old-style corruption and focus on centralising all power in his own hands.

Thaksin's apologists can prattle on all they wish about the 'disadvantaged'...

...but it is because they only appreciate consumption and not production of wealth that they do not properly understand the significance of class forces...

...and also being petty-bourgeois themselves, they love a hero and have a romantic fetish for the peasantry.

This is what happens when your understanding is limited to a sociology or communications degree.

Thailand's future is tied to its growth which is currently doing very well.

When wealth is being generated then the country can develop.

What Thailand doesn't need right now is a Big-Time Corrupt Bastard and a bunch of clowns chucking their blood about.

moresomekl · March 17, 2010

People get paid to vote now. People will get paid to vote in any system. Maybe politicians shouldn't take bribes and people that are offered them should report it to the police ... Fantasy world, I know.

The people electing the PM gives the PM too much power. There needs to be checks and balances. One of the reasons Thaksin was dumped is because he was trying to remove some of those checks and balances.

Yes true but its much easier to expose bribes to say a few million ppl then to a few politicians . If vote buying is prooven during or after election the candidate winner or not of the general election would be denied victory , or forced to resign , and in any case be prevented to participate in an election again .

It is also fundamental to separate executive , legislative , and judiciary branch as in most mature democratic system . Else you get MP's that are both judges and party and ppl like Mr T that can abuse the system as you highlight .

In such a mature system Mr T EVEN if elected would be arrested undr current charges

But then of course we know that the reform of the thai electoral system , has about 0.001% chance to happen . Too many interests are against it . So its purely for the sake of discussion

thaihome · March 17, 2010

Commentators are rather coy when they use the term 'class war', mainly because they do not understand it.
'haves' and 'have nots' are not classes.

Also it is laughable that Thaksin's apologists try so hard to paint him into some 'Che Guevara' image as the liberator of the masses.

Thailand is rapidly developing as a capitalist economy albeit with a significant rural base.

In the transition, the developing bourgeoisie has come under stress for a multitude of reasons.

Thaksin represents a small split in the ruling class allied with parts of the petty-bourgeoisie which is opportunistically seeking allying itself with the peasant rump of the country.

His window was the perceived (and actual) weakness of the ruling elite.

His failure has been the inability to make real alliances with the industrial urban classes due to his old-style corruption and focus on centralising all power in his own hands.

Thaksin's apologists can prattle on all they wish about the 'disadvantaged'...

...but it is because they only appreciate consumption and not production of wealth that they do not properly understand the significance of class forces...

...and also being petty-bourgeois themselves, they love a hero and have a romantic fetish for the peasantry.

This is what happens when your understanding is limited to a sociology or communications degree.

Thailand's future is tied to its growth which is currently doing very well.

When wealth is being generated then the country can develop.

What Thailand doesn't need right now is a Big-Time Corrupt Bastard and a bunch of clowns chucking their blood about.

"Thaksin represents a small split in the ruling class allied with parts of the petty-bourgeoisie which is opportunistically seeking allying itself with the peasant rump of the country."

That is probably the best description I have seen.

TH

moresomekl · March 17, 2010