Deposed Thai Premier Thaksin Now In Montenegro

[Publicus]

Montenegrin : Visa free travel would not be unduly compromised by the Sovereign State of Montenegro providing a diplomatic or traditional passport to a national of another country.

You have endeavored to ask a number of questions, a few of which I'll attempt to answer.

Khun Thaksin was under investigation and subject to trail before becoming Prime Minister first time in 2001. In that case, he called his actions 'an honest mistake' [which some might view as an acknowledgment of guilt] and we now know, because some the Judges have stated publicly that they decided that his electoral majority should be considered in his favour. They therefore acquitted him so he could continue as elected PM.

During his period in office a number of events occurred @2,500 people killed during a self described 'war on drugs', a prominent human rights lawyer disappeared off a street and is believed to have been murdered, probably by members of the Police. [note both PM Thaksin, and his deputy expressed that this was the most likely reality]. This along with actions resulting in deaths in the south of Thailand, led to a position where the actions of the security services was given latitude by silence [at best] or deliberate encouragement [at worst]. The point here is that a state can and often does reflect the moral compass of the Head of Government.

Further, Khun Thakisn returned to Thailand after the coup and attended the trail. However, he asked and was given bail to attend the opening of the Olympics in Beijing, from which he never returned, hence the description of his being sentenced in absentia, not tried in absentia which some people mistake this for.

More recently, as you noted a PM [Khun Samak] was disbarred owing to his hosting a cooking show [for payment]. The late Samak had also been found guilty of offences which would prevent him from being the PM, however these matters were still under appeal [having already lost at least one appeal hearing] and after his death the cases did not proceed. In other words the cooking show issue was the least of the issues he had. One last point here, the law is very clear, the Prime Minister may not accept payment for services whilst serving the country. I don't know if this translates well, but the court view was that his position was like being a little bit pregnant. Equally, can it be reasonable that the PM of the country openly and deliberately flouts the law of the land, whilst being, in principal the centre of such authority?

On another point, the parliamentary system here works on the election of the PM by the house of representatives, as is the case in many representative democracies. In most cases people don't see it, since the largest party or group appoints the head of the largest party to be PM and the vote is a formality. The process is described as first among equals.

Lastly, Khun Thaksin has never argued the legal basis for his conviction, though he has argued the court was biased against him [Note the positive bias shown in 2001].

Hope these pointers help in you ascertaining more about Khun Thaksin and his time in office.

Regards

Excelent post....

I do with you would have included Khunying Pojaman however....his wife of many years, who was really the power broker behind Khun Thaskin...was sentenced to 3 years in Jail for tax evasion just before his conviction. Her attornies (also relitives) were sent directly to jail from the courthouse after trying to give a candy box with 2,000,000 baht to the judge hearing her case. Then was disbared.

Oh and lest we forget he just lost another case for abuse of power and had 40 billion baht forfeited to the government.

So you can see what a upstanding family we have here All just devoted to the poor under privliged and down trodden Issan people.

So if you do not find a lot of simpathy for him here, there are reasons that go back many years.

Thaksin posters from his new rathole need to know there's an old saying that the only place to find sympathy is in the dictionary between shit and syphyllis.

[think_too_mut]

According to TV Vijesti from Montenegro Thaksin is there, as their citizen and with Montenegro passport.

They stress he won't be allowed to stage any disruption to any third country.

As they say, he is not on the Interpol's Red List for arrest, Thai government just asked them (via Hungary) to confirm whether he is there or not. And he is, Montenegro Police said.

Inspecting renovations of some hotel (my guess, previously acquired and the basis for citizenship and passport). Since December 19 2009. Montenegrin passport holders do not need a visa for travel to most of EU countries (Shengen zone).

That statelet won't budge unless there is some high level pressure from the EU or America. Nothing like that seems probable.

They (Montenegro) are in the news, enjoying free advertising, they seem to think it's a good thing for them.

[Ice123]

Thai Visa is an English language forum. Please post in English. Posts in other languages will be arbitrarily removed.

(Except for the Thai Language section.)

Sorry,just wanted to say hi to my countryman ICE and asked him if he lives in Tajland.

I will write strictly in English from now on.

@animatic

For some reason I cant post direct links,but type cafe montenegro forum taksin,and you will see that he got considerable attention on MNE forums.

Hey , no I live in Montenegro, and I got to this forum for totally different purpose, but I saw the discussion about Thaksin before (almost one year ago) and I visit this forum again when it was confirmed that Thaksin is in Montenegro .

[Ice123]

As far as I understand, he is reputed to have not only a passport and citizenship in Montenegro, but also in Nicaragua, Central America, from his pal, Daniel Ortega, who seems to have a similar value system as that of Thaksin.

Additionally, it is reasonable to assume that he has a number of other "banana Republic" type passports from other similarly situated such countries that he acquired from his vast "investment" activities in those countries.

I doubt he is at a loss for friendly places to hang out and drink coffee and eat cake at 5 star hotels....

To you, Montenegro is a banana republic?

[animatic]

I wouldn't say banana republic, but you must admit it IS a very NEW national entity.

Regardless if it DID have a pre Yugoslvia past,

and as such does set off minor alarms in relation to Thaksins ability to

manipulate it's functions via serious money. His M.O. on spades.

I have been through in the past and it's a lovely place, with lovely people.

But I for one don't hold the country accountable for Thaksin, he's his own low rent district,

where ever he goes, no matter who much money he spends..

[keemapoot]

Of course I didn't mean to impugn Montenegro, I'm sure it's a lovely place. The simple fact is that many small countries have programs, whether publicized or not, whereby they extend passport and citizenship to persons of means who make certain sized investments. In addition, Thaksin probably did befriend some small country leaders who would have nothing to lose by extending courtesies to him in exchange for return favors should he take control of Thailand again.

I've heard various estimates of how many passports the man has, and I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth.

[Nuchanart]

I thought that Thai govt have banned Thaksin from entering UAE.

He is last reported in Dubai?

[animatic]

I thought that Thai govt have banned Thaksin from entering UAE.

He is last reported in Dubai?

Or

he Fedexed a simcard to Dubai and had an assistant send the little SMS message.

Lots of ways he can APPEAR to be in Dubai....

[shawndoc]

If he's back in Dubai, why the blank background? Why not have a window in the background where you could see out to view the city he's in or in front of a sign for the hotel he's staying at?

[janderton]

.... Thaksin is there, as their citizen and with Montenegro passport.

They stress he won't be allowed to stage any disruption to any third country.

....

the same thing was told dy Dubai's spokesman..

the question is: the daily (evening, prime time) messages to his supporter, broadcasted on maxiscreen at he rally as on UDD tv channel, been shot WHERE?

[rainman]

I think this clearly shows the kind of false propaganda and lies that the current government is spreading. A few days ago, they said that Thaksin was basically thrown out of Dubai and that they were told by the officials in Dubai that he wouldn't be let back in. Now he's apparently back in Dubai. I think that says it all.

And Thaksin comparing Abhisit to Hitler starts to make a bit of sense now too, since the Abhisit propaganda team is somewhat like Goebbels was for Hitler.

Edited March 19, 2010 by rainman

[Tony121]

I think this clearly shows the kind of false propaganda and lies that the current government is spreading. A few days ago, they said that Thaksin was basically thrown out of Dubai and that they were told by the officials in Dubai that he wouldn't be let back in. Now he's apparently back in Dubai. I think that says it all.

And Thaksin comparing Abhisit to Hitler starts to make a bit of sense now too, since the Abhisit propaganda team is somewhat like Goebbels was for Hitler.

How do you know he is in Dubai ?

No one has any solid proof where he is at the moment

[lannarebirth]

I think this clearly shows the kind of false propaganda and lies that the current government is spreading. A few days ago, they said that Thaksin was basically thrown out of Dubai and that they were told by the officials in Dubai that he wouldn't be let back in. Now he's apparently back in Dubai. I think that says it all.

And Thaksin comparing Abhisit to Hitler starts to make a bit of sense now too, since the Abhisit propaganda team is somewhat like Goebbels was for Hitler.

How do you know he is in Dubai ?

No one has any solid proof where he is at the moment

And what difference does it make so long as he's not here or in custody overseas. I do agree the foreign ministry has cried wolf too many times though.

[Publicus]

If he's back in Dubai, why the blank background? Why not have a window in the background where you could see out to view the city he's in or in front of a sign for the hotel he's staying at?

Thaksin won a prize which is why he's in Montenegro, a first place prize.

First prize is a week in an unnamed rooming house at Bt 200 a nite.

Second prize is two weeks at the unnamed rooming house at Bt 350 a nite.

Third prize is three weeks at the unnamed rooming house at Bt 500 a nite.

Being of sound mind and body, Thaksin couldn't resist such a spectacular and lucky offer.

Bonus: Elite card holders get to sacrifice a virgin.

[Netfan]

I think this clearly shows the kind of false propaganda and lies that the current government is spreading. A few days ago, they said that Thaksin was basically thrown out of Dubai and that they were told by the officials in Dubai that he wouldn't be let back in. Now he's apparently back in Dubai. I think that says it all.

And Thaksin comparing Abhisit to Hitler starts to make a bit of sense now too, since the Abhisit propaganda team is somewhat like Goebbels was for Hitler.

How do you know he is in Dubai ?

No one has any solid proof where he is at the moment

And what difference does it make so long as he's not here or in custody overseas. I do agree the foreign ministry has cried wolf too many times though.

And perhaps when the Reds go home and the government can get back to business Abhisit can use Kasit's bumblings as the reason to dump him. That appointment was not exactly Abhisits most shining moment, although he was probably under a bit of pressure to give Kasit a post.

[Ice123]

I wouldn't say banana republic, but you must admit it IS a very NEW national entity.

Regardless if it DID have a pre Yugoslvia past,

and as such does set off minor alarms in relation to Thaksins ability to

manipulate it's functions via serious money. His M.O. on spades.

I have been through in the past and it's a lovely place, with lovely people.

But I for one don't hold the country accountable for Thaksin, he's his own low rent district,

where ever he goes, no matter who much money he spends..

Yes, but Montenegro didn't disappear in Yugoslavia. It was republic, so it isn't that new to entity. Sure, some segments were (like diplomacy) but now it's like in ever other country, in 4 years Montenegro went further surpassing it's neighbors in economy, EU, NATO etc... which was impossible to think in 2006. After Croatia, it is the most successful Ex YU country in every segment. About giving him the passport, I am not sure why it was done and I think it was instructed by EU, as when journalists asked Stefan File, he answered that it's the internal thing of Montenegro. If EU was against it, they would say it, it's not like they fear of Montenegro

Of course I didn't mean to impugn Montenegro, I'm sure it's a lovely place. The simple fact is that many small countries have programs, whether publicized or not, whereby they extend passport and citizenship to persons of means who make certain sized investments. In addition, Thaksin probably did befriend some small country leaders who would have nothing to lose by extending courtesies to him in exchange for return favors should he take control of Thailand again.

I've heard various estimates of how many passports the man has, and I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth.

I think UK have that policy of giving the passport to big investitures, but this is not 100% sure, as I am not sure if it's true or not.

[Publicus]

The Republic of Montenegro adopted its extant constitution on 19 October 2007.

The country formerly was the People's Republic of Montenegro, before that the Socialist Republic of Montenegro. It's population is 672,180, which is about the population of the Bangkok District of Yannawa.

GDP of Montenegro is USD $4.4 billion, which means Thaksin could buy half the country today. Montenegro is heavility reliant on tourism and, especially, the aluminum industry.

On Dec 15, 2008 Montenegro submitted an application for membership of the EU, which is pending and inactive due to Montenego's failures to address the country's status as a human trafficing route of transit.

The leading advocate of Montenegran membership of the EU is the UK which has keen interests in business investments.

www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mj.html

[yoshiwara]

I think this clearly shows the kind of false propaganda and lies that the current government is spreading. A few days ago, they said that Thaksin was basically thrown out of Dubai and that they were told by the officials in Dubai that he wouldn't be let back in. Now he's apparently back in Dubai. I think that says it all.

And Thaksin comparing Abhisit to Hitler starts to make a bit of sense now too, since the Abhisit propaganda team is somewhat like Goebbels was for Hitler.

If you understood anything about WWII history you wouldn't make such a silly comment.

However, since you are in the mood to defend everything that Thaksin says or does, maybe you would also like to 'see some sense' in Thaksin's comments about gays.

See if you can be humorous about that also.

[CLOD]

Where ever he is I am sure he will be complementing The Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters on their sterling efforts to return thailand to Democracy.

The Rural Electoral democracy Supporters.......The mother of all Thai democracy movements.

[Montenegrin]

The Republic of Montenegro adopted its extant constitution on 19 October 2007.

On Dec 15, 2008 Montenegro submitted an application for membership of the EU, which is pending and inactive due to Montenego's failures to address the country's status as a human trafficing route of transit.

This is apsolutly not true(it is nonsense).Application is very active and we will officialy become candidates until the end of year,most likely(EU englargment commissioner Stefan Fule who said that we are on our way) and become NATO members in 2012. at latest.I dont think you found this information on CIA(in fact I am preety sure you didnt or it is old info).It is true that we are targeted as one of the routes for trafficking,but nothing alarming-so is every other Balkan country including EU members Bulgaria and Romania.

Also Montenegro is not republic(it is,but its official name is just Montenegro and not Republic of Montenegro,it was before 2007. constitution).Any relevant institution(including CIA) will call us just Montenegro.

Cia world factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/mj.html

Edited March 20, 2010 by Montenegrin

[webfact]

Govt at a loss now Thaksin 'back in Dubai'

By THE NATION

The government's request to have Thaksin Shinawatra denied haven in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) seems to have failed completely, with the fugitive former premier reportedly arriving back in Dubai yesterday from Montenegro.

Thaksin announced via Twitter that he was back in his residence in Dubai.

"Hello, I would like to send my best wishes from Dubai. I hope democracy and justice will return to the Thai society so that the country will have peace and all Thais can smile at one another," he posted in the message.

Questions about Thaksin's location have been a pressing concern for the Foreign Ministry since the anti-government red shirts started their huge demonstration in Bangkok on March 12, with officials fearing he would manipulate the protest against the government from abroad.

The ministry wanted his host country to expel him or at least block him from linking to his supporters protesting on Bangkok's streets, but it failed in several attempts to identify his location from the very outset.

Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, the foreign minister's secretary, first misinformed the public by stating that Thaksin was in Siem Reap, Cambodia, last week. Thaksin broke the silence on that occasion, saying he was still in Dubai.

Vice Foreign Minister Panich Vikitsreth later told reporters that the government had urged the UAE to prohibit Thaksin from using the state as his base to attack the Thai administration.

When Thaksin appeared in Montenegro, Panich said the UAE would no longer welcome him back for this reason.

With Thaksin reportedly arriving back in Dubai yesterday, Panich said he would ask the Thai Embassy in Abu Dhabi to confirm the news.

If the report is true, the government will not intervene in the UAE's decision to allow Thaksin to live in the country, he added.

However, Panich said he would continue monitoring Thaksin's movements in Dubai. If the ex-premier made any political moves, the Foreign Ministry would ask the UAE again not to allow him to do so, he said.

-- The Nation 2010-03-20

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[lannarebirth]

I think this clearly shows the kind of false propaganda and lies that the current government is spreading. A few days ago, they said that Thaksin was basically thrown out of Dubai and that they were told by the officials in Dubai that he wouldn't be let back in. Now he's apparently back in Dubai. I think that says it all.

And Thaksin comparing Abhisit to Hitler starts to make a bit of sense now too, since the Abhisit propaganda team is somewhat like Goebbels was for Hitler.

How do you know he is in Dubai ?

No one has any solid proof where he is at the moment

And what difference does it make so long as he's not here or in custody overseas. I do agree the foreign ministry has cried wolf too many times though.

And perhaps when the Reds go home and the government can get back to business Abhisit can use Kasit's bumblings as the reason to dump him. That appointment was not exactly Abhisits most shining moment, although he was probably under a bit of pressure to give Kasit a post.

Seems to me that would be a smart and concilliatory move.

[ballpoint]

I thought that Thai govt have banned Thaksin from entering UAE.

He is last reported in Dubai?

Or

he Fedexed a simcard to Dubai and had an assistant send the little SMS message.

Lots of ways he can APPEAR to be in Dubai....

You don't even need to do that. A sim card from Dubai will show up as a Dubai number no matter where in the world it is used. Do you think the number mysteriously changes just because he uses it in Montenegro?

[think_too_mut]

I thought that Thai govt have banned Thaksin from entering UAE.

He is last reported in Dubai?

Or

he Fedexed a simcard to Dubai and had an assistant send the little SMS message.

Lots of ways he can APPEAR to be in Dubai....

You don't even need to do that. A sim card from Dubai will show up as a Dubai number no matter where in the world it is used. Do you think the number mysteriously changes just because he uses it in Montenegro?

Is that right?

I thought international roaming would give you a first available number (from some dedicated pool of numbers) to make a call from the current position and the receiving party would see it as "Not supported" for translation into name or original number. Even calling back a missed call from that number would get nowhere. If you are guessing who might have called you, then call their original number, roaming will sort it out.

Further, a prepaid and inserted SIM card would behave just like local card, no knowledge of his Dubai number.

Edited March 20, 2010 by think_too_mut

[think_too_mut]

I thought that Thai govt have banned Thaksin from entering UAE.

He is last reported in Dubai?

Or

he Fedexed a simcard to Dubai and had an assistant send the little SMS message.

Lots of ways he can APPEAR to be in Dubai....

He knows a thing or two about mobile phones - all the turmoil started when he sold his AIS to Singapore for 2 bil US$.

[ballpoint]

Is that right?

I thought international roaming would give you a first available number (from some dedicated pool of numbers) to make a call from the current position and the receiving party would see it as "Not supported" for translation into name or original number. Even cakling back a missed call from that number would get nowhere.

Further, a prepaid and inserted SIM card would behave just like local card, no knowledge of his Dubai number.

We're talking SMS's here. If I send an SMS from my Thai number it will show up on the recipient's phone as having come from that number no matter where in the world I send it from. Similarly, when colleagues of mine using Etisalat in Dubai SMS me I get notification of the Dubai number it was sent from, no matter where they are in the world. If Thaksin has a Dubai sim card any SMS sent from it will show up as having been sent from that Dubai number. If someone were then to call or text that number Thaksin would receive it no matter where in the world he is, and the caller would have no idea if he was in Dubai or not.

I don't know what you mean by the prepaid card? Sure, he could buy one in Montenegro, and have a Montenegro number, but the point of this exercise is to lead everyone into believing he is somewhere else. If he bought a prepaid Dubai card, that card would have a Dubai number which would show up as such on any SMS he sent.

Edited March 20, 2010 by ballpoint

[think_too_mut]

I tell you-there is no way my goverment would give passport to Sinavatra if USA and EU said no.Do you have any other logical explanation why we gave him passport.Maybe he gave money for it,but then why Montenegro and not some other country?However,if USA and especialy EU said no,there is no way he could get our passport.I am serious!

I concur with that.

Were there some powers that disliked or wanted to meddle, Montenegro would not want to upset them as Thaksin would not have been a good reason for that.

Nobody cared so they did what is according to their laws.

*edit* References to the royal family deleted.

[think_too_mut]

Is that right?

I thought international roaming would give you a first available number (from some dedicated pool of numbers) to make a call from the current position and the receiving party would see it as "Not supported" for translation into name or original number. Even cakling back a missed call from that number would get nowhere.

Further, a prepaid and inserted SIM card would behave just like local card, no knowledge of his Dubai number.

We're talking SMS's here. If I send an SMS from my Thai number it will show up on the recipient's phone as having come from that number no matter where in the world I send it from. Similarly, when colleagues of mine using Etisalat in Dubai SMS me I get notification of the Dubai number it was sent from, no matter where they are in the world. If Thaksin has a Dubai sim card any SMS sent from it will show up as having been sent from that Dubai number. If someone were then to call or text that number Thaksin would receive it no matter where in the world he is, and the caller would have no idea if he was in Dubai or not.

I don't know what you mean by the prepaid card? Sure, he could buy one in Montenegro, and have a Montenegro number, but the point of this exercise is to lead everyone into believing he is somewhere else. If he bought a prepaid Dubai card, that card would have a Dubai number which would show up as such on any SMS he sent.

Never mind mate, he is playing what can be played with locations, where his mobile calls emanate from is part of it.

[rogerdee123]

I think he's really in UAE and the Foreign Ministry really reflects badly on this Government.

[britmaveric]

Of course the Foreign Ministry is a joke. I thought it was quite obvious even before now.