Thailand Nuclear Power Sites To Be Named In May

[bdenner]

The most expensive and dangerous technology in the world to produce electricity. Who is pushing this idiot plan??? Someone being paid off by a contractor who doesn't care he will forever contaminate Thailand, I suspect.

Thailand has plenty of wind, sun and some natural gas to produce electricity.

There's the voice of knowledge and common sense. Please stay home in your nice (Texas) comfort zone and stay away from things you obviously know nothing about!

[whatawonderfulday]

As this will be the first time for Thailand to have a Nuclear Power plant, I hope that western management, with the power to enforce things, will be put in place.

TheWalkingMan

Actually they have struck a deal with Iran. Iran will provide the technology for Thailand for building a Nuclear Power station and peaceful use of its by-product whilst in return Thailand will provide the Iranians with ideas for illustrating how stupid they are on the world stage ; ala blood letting, cursing and running the country based on feed back from fortune tellers !!!

[Soutpeel]

All of it most interesting.

Most European nukes are of the 'heavy-water' variety and can boast about their safety records which are rather positive. I'm not familiar with the the design parameters of Chernobyl's facility which, one might suspect, was intended to deliver champagne on a beer budget.

In the USA, BWR (boiling-water-reactor) was the technology of choice purveyed to all potential prospects (hitherto, somewhat independent power generators) who were invited to enjoin the "national power grid" and were actually lured into "power-wheeling" by the big boys who love to own a business that gets to send a bill to so many addresses.

Most European nukes are not "heavy-water" reactors.....most are PWR's, (pressurised water reactors)

set up on a two loop system ie radioactive loop is isolated from turbine/generator loop, steam is generated via a steam generator, with high pressure contaminated water on the reactor loop, which steams off none contaminated water on the shell side of the SG to the turbine/generator/condenser loop.

Boiling water reactors (BWR's) push radioactive steam through the turbine, although more efficient in operation over PWR's they are inherently more "dangerous" than PWR's.

Chernobyl was a combination of both design and operator error.

[rainman]

With the current political stability in Thailand, I really don't think it's a good idea to build a nuclear plant.

[miksguevara]

thais ? nuclear power? It really might be time 2 go home...snigger snigger

apparently their planning on making it a hub ....even higher pitched sniggering

Edited March 18, 2010 by miksguevara

[tombkk]

What's with all the doom and gloom? Obviously Thailand does not have the resources or expertise to engineer such a facility, but definitely need more power generation. Nuclear is the obvious choice so what's wrong with contracting/leasing the technology from the Germans, French, US or even the Russians. They build and run it as a private enterprise as is the case with most major infrastructure, world wide, these days. OK there has been 2 major accidents but we are in the 21st century and over 50 years experience so IMO there is no problem.

What's the alternative? And we are talking of a Base Load Power Station not some piss farting wind farm.

Well, I don't want to mention the "mai pen rai" attitude which might interfer with safety after a couple of years.

But I do want to know what you suggest to do with the nuclear waste.

[ReleaseTheKrakon]

I am not a religious man but I think now is the time to find god, if Thailand get this capability we will all be visiting his sooner rather than later.

I can't see breeze blocks stopping leakage

Great, now even a 2nd world country will have more localized energy resources than my own country........

[ReleaseTheKrakon]

The most expensive and dangerous technology in the world to produce electricity. Who is pushing this idiot plan??? Someone being paid off by a contractor who doesn't care he will forever contaminate Thailand, I suspect.

Thailand has plenty of wind, sun and some natural gas to produce electricity.

There's the voice of knowledge and common sense. Please stay home in your nice (Texas) comfort zone and stay away from things you obviously know nothing about!

Nuclear energy is the cleanest energy you can create. As far as Nuclear waste....look into it before printing those two words. Not one person was proven to have been sickened by Three Mile Island and not one piece of dirt was found to have dangerous levels of radiation. I wish my country would build more Nuke Plants.

[ding]

So, did Thailand invent "NukeAway!" and not tell the rest of the world?

If nuclear is so safe, put it in Bangkok and store the waste there too. Next to government house or nowhere!

[mca]

environmental protection

Right.....

[ding]

It's worth noting, there has been a huge increase in pro-nuclear posters on American forums. Look at post count and bring your grains of salt to sprinkle on your morning propaganda.

[heykki]

Comments about Thailand not being able to handle this are pure bs. The three plants are a necessity to ensure economic growth. The whole world is building these at the moment. Waste is not a problem as newer technologies will be able to use them for producing energy. Also, uranium is expected to last at least 100k years according to current predictions and not forgetting it's absolutely CO2 free.

[tombkk]

Comments about Thailand not being able to handle this are pure bs. The three plants are a necessity to ensure economic growth. The whole world is building these at the moment. Waste is not a problem as newer technologies will be able to use them for producing energy. Also, uranium is expected to last at least 100k years according to current predictions and not forgetting it's absolutely CO2 free.

Thanks, you have put my three global points together:

1. I cannot believe that we still use fossile fuels in the 21st century. Nuclear power is generally safe, and it is the way to go. Absolutely.

2. Nuclear waste is a problem not yet solved. Yes, there are ideas, but looking at some endlager solutions, I do not see a final solution that is environmentally acceptable. I suggested to shoot the waste into the sun, but experts pointed out the cost... Kindly expand on your idea that the waste is not a problem and can *in fact* be used for additional energy production. I am eager to learn about the new nuclear perpetuum mobile.

3. Additionally, we have to deal with human failure (or indifference) while maintaining nuclear power plants. Somebody please tell me there is a country in this world that has it under control. And that Thailand is at least on the same level and that "mai pen rai" has been deleted from Thai culture.

If these requirements are met, I will be very much in favour of nuclear power. Fossile fuel is polluting, windcraft is Don-Quixoteish, and solar power is not efficient enough.

[whiterussian]

Hopefully Thailand will be using Weastern technology and Western engineering, together with Western supervision.

Hopefully Japanese in my opinion, thay have 53 reactors, in an earthquake zone...

USA has 104

France 59

Total of france are already in with Thailand for gas n oil, maybe they will be the ones.

Edited March 18, 2010 by whiterussian

[miksguevara]

Comments about Thailand not being able to handle this are pure bs. The three plants are a necessity to ensure economic growth. The whole world is building these at the moment. Waste is not a problem as newer technologies will be able to use them for producing energy. Also, uranium is expected to last at least 100k years according to current predictions and not forgetting it's absolutely CO2 free.

can you tell me the company that is involved in the ' newer technologies' that can use nuclear waste to produce energy...no you can't? oh dam_n I was hoping too make a mint.... oh wait a minute you dont actually know what your on about.. I luv people who post on forums and dont have a clue...duMb A$$

waste is the problem....

[Soutpeel]

I am not a religious man but I think now is the time to find god, if Thailand get this capability we will all be visiting his sooner rather than later.

I can't see breeze blocks stopping leakage

Great, now even a 2nd world country will have more localized energy resources than my own country........

<deleted> is a 2nd world country... .....Thailand is 3rd world

[Soutpeel]

waste is the problem....

What waste are you referring to ??

[bdenner]

.............................

But I do want to know what you suggest to do with the nuclear waste.

Definitely NOT breath it like we do with CO2 emissions. OK poor Joke!

Not knowing or even wanting to pre-empt the contracts the Thais may or may not have in place yet I guess it will be up to the consortium to dispose of the waste in the same way they do in their home land. Bury it --- Very deeply! And wait for the technology, which will eventuate, to reprocess it to be used again (for peaceful purposes).

[brahmburgers]

If nuclear is so safe, put it in Bangkok and store the waste there too. Next to government house or nowhere!

Right. Let me guess, there are a raft of no-go regions where there there will be no consideration for siting the nuke plants. A. Bangkok, B. any military bases C. Anywhere near a Royal residence D. Any large population of Thais (Muslims and foreigners are a different matter).

Comments about Thailand not being able to handle this are pure bs. The three plants are a necessity to ensure economic growth. The whole world is building these at the moment. Waste is not a problem as newer technologies will be able to use them for producing energy. Also, uranium is expected to last at least 100k years according to current predictions and not forgetting it's absolutely CO2 free.

"absolutely CO2 free"? How about the CO2 to construct the plant. The CO2 where the U is mined and processed. The CO2 to ship it to Thailand by secured boat, truck, rail? The CO2 to

clandestinely take the spent fuel rods out to dump in the Andaman sea (or nearby swamp)? The CO2 emitted from large machines used to decommission the plant? It wouldn't surprise me if there are regular power lines running in to the plant to power the plant itself.

Do some research in to solar, particularly concentrated solar. For half the investment of the proposed nuke plants, industrial strength arrays of solar could be constructed - which would provide as much power. And anyone wondering how solar power can keep feeding in to the grid on cloudy/rainy days and nights really needs to do some research in how power can be stored.

Then there's geo-thermal. Perhaps not large scale, but certainly some regional needs could be met. Just in my one area, there are at least two potential sites. Locals say boiling hot thermal is just 60 meters below grade.

The 900 lb gorilla in the kitchen that no one seems to notice is conservation. Thais are notorious for wasting energy. Existing power grids (even without nuclear or clean alternatives) could supply Thailand for decades if Thais had a consciousness about not wasting power.

What's being done on gov't level to teach Thais not to waste electricity? Oh, almost forgot, for living memory, the government has been hamstrung. Thai politicians and bureaucrats are most adept at doing nothing substantial while appearing to be busy. Main reasons for inaction: A. ignorance, B. Lazy C. busy playing golf D. tending to various mia noi, and E. a certain billionaire who won't stop trying to cause trouble from afar.

Edited March 19, 2010 by brahmburgers

[bdenner]

------------------

Then there's geo-thermal. ----------------

You don't get it do you!

Thailand NEEDS at least one and probably more Base Load Power Stations. The ONLY alternative to Fossil Fuels and Hydro Energy is Nuclear. They are near on self sufficient for Natural Gas out of the Gulf BUT it is depleting quickly. Hydro is being imported from Laos and costing the Thais heaps, you may or may not have noticed that the Mekong has all but stopped flowing so the Thais generating their own Hydro is out of the question.

It's not rocket science! Geo Thermal, Tidal, Solar, Wind or TW peddling a dynamo WILL NOT cut it!

Your move!

BTW! Got a few spare Dollars, Baht, Euros or whatever. Buy blue chips in the major companies with Uranium leases, BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Mega Uranium (Canada) etc. Your guaranteed to be rewarded long term! -- Mark my words!

Edited March 19, 2010 by bdenner

[someoneelse]

The most expensive and dangerous technology in the world to produce electricity. Who is pushing this idiot plan??? Someone being paid off by a contractor who doesn't care he will forever contaminate Thailand, I suspect.

Bwahahahaha!

Rooftop solar is more dangerous than nuclear power - and that's taking into account Chernobyl.

But even rooftop solar is much safer than coal fired power, which kills up to half a million people in China every year due to air pollution.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-pe...gy-sources.html

[someoneelse]

My money is on the South Koreans.

Kepco has just won a contract to build four 1.4GW units in the UAE, to be operational by 2017. Total cost is $US20bn to build, and another $20bn to operate for the next 20 years.

[Soutpeel]

Mines on the French...

[brahmburgers]

You don't get it do you! Thailand NEEDS at least one and probably more Base Load Power Stations. The ONLY alternative to Fossil Fuels and Hydro Energy is Nuclear. They are near on self sufficient for Natural Gas out of the Gulf BUT it is depleting quickly. Hydro is being imported from Laos and costing the Thais heaps, you may or may not have noticed that the Mekong has all but stopped flowing so the Thais generating their own Hydro is out of the question. It's not rocket science! Geo Thermal, Tidal, Solar, Wind or TW peddling a dynamo WILL NOT cut it!

Your move! BTW! Got a few spare Dollars, Baht, Euros or whatever. Buy blue chips in the major companies with Uranium leases, BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Mega Uranium (Canada) etc. Your guaranteed to be rewarded long term! -- Mark my words!

Sure, it's possible that nuclear related stocks will go up. Heck, investment in Yellowcake is almost a sure gainer, as it's what powers nuclear plants and it's produced by very few companies, so supply won't be able to keep up with demand, and prices for yellowcake will soar. Plus there are an array of glitches, any one of which could <deleted> up the supply of yellowcake: equipment failures, licensing, espionage, labor strikes, shipping problems, to name a few. Just because something is an investment bonanza doesn't mean it makes sense in other realms. You could invest in rocket launchers and make big returns, but lots of little people might suffer in the process.

The most expensive and dangerous technology in the world to produce electricity. Who is pushing this idiot plan??? Someone being paid off by a contractor who doesn't care he will forever contaminate Thailand, I suspect.

Bwahahahaha! Rooftop solar is more dangerous than nuclear power - and that's taking into account Chernobyl.But even rooftop solar is much safer than coal fired power, which kills up to half a million people in China every year due to air pollution. http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-pe...gy-sources.html

Is that some lame attempt at humor? How is rooftop solar dangerous? ...any more than a crack in the pavement could catch your lady's high heel, and cause her to scruff purse?

It's not rocket science! Geo Thermal, Tidal, Solar, Wind or TW peddling a dynamo WILL NOT cut it!

Sorry, I had to quote you twice, because your statement really needs commenting upon. If you have a religious bent against any new energy technology, and/or your thinking is buried deep in the 1960's, then yes, you can't be expected to fathom the great achievements of alternative power production in the past 50 years. To some extent it is rocket science, or close to it. Have you heard of 'fresnel lenses'? I'm not saying that every type of alternative power generation is suited for Thailand, but I will say that CONCENTRATED SOLAR can provide Thailand with all the power it needs for at most half the cost of nuclear. It's not 'pie in the sky' technology. It exists, and is delivering power as we speak. Knowledge and appreciation of CONSERVATION is also sorely needed for Thailand, but that's a topic for another thread.

Not long ago, there were people who thought that no mechanical device could ever travel faster than a galloping horse. There's also a famous quote by a big shot business man who said of the first computers "they're an interesting diversion, but will never amount to anything useful." History is rife with people who have stuck firmly to outmoded thinking patterns.

In every way, including efficiency and lower cost per MW, Solar is a smarter way to go than nuclear.

Mark my words: If EGAT ever gets one or more nuke reactors built, there will be big problems. There will be demonstrations to close them down, and they'll turn ugly, and a whole lot of people will get harmed before the reactor(s) get shut down. When I say 'get harmed' - it could be by radiation or it could be by gov't resistance to the demonstrations, or just plain big loses on investments - either way its a lose-lose situation.

[brahmburgers]

When they name the three or four sites, will EGAT also have open community meetings?

Village elders are known to place untended garbage dumps (poorly designed/constructed on bamboo struts which last about 5 months) in the middle of their villages without having community discussions prior - that's a given. But planning to place a multi-billion baht nuclear reactor by a population center (and there are cities and towns along Thailand's entire coastline), should require community inter-active discussions. And, unlike the meeting near Surat Thani last year (concerning nuclear), the meetings should be completely open to all residents, and everyone allowed to speak. The meeting near Surat Thani was closed to regular people. It was essentially a PR exercise by EGAT designed to give just their glowing assessment (pun intended) of the glories of a nuclear plant in their back yard.

Edited March 22, 2010 by brahmburgers

[ronz28]

Bloom’s solid oxide fuel cell (SOFC) technology is an “energy game-changer” and a “power plant in a box.” Something Thailand will eventually produce once the technology is licensed. Hopefully, Thailand won't waste a pile of money on nuclear before it figures out that current designs are just too costly and dangerous for it over the long term compared to the alternatives.

http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2010/March...technology.html

[MellowYellow]

Bloom’s solid oxide fuel cell (SOFC) technology is an “energy game-changer” and a “power plant in a box.” Something Thailand will eventually produce once the technology is licensed. Hopefully, Thailand won't waste a pile of money on nuclear before it figures out that current designs are just too costly and dangerous for it over the long term compared to the alternatives.

http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2010/March...technology.html

It uses natural gas as a fuel.

Got any other miracle boxes for us?

Because YOU are afraid of Nuclear Power does not make it too dangerous. IN fact, do a little research, heck even read this thread and you'll find it's NOT too dangerous.

IMO, Thai education and cultural issues make the local operation currently questionable.

[elcent]

Oh, they prepare for the world largest parking lot?

[brahmburgers]

Because YOU are afraid of Nuclear Power does not make it too dangerous. IN fact, do a little research, heck even read this thread and you'll find it's NOT too dangerous.

Whether or not it's too dangerous is only part of the equation. There are many other reasons why nuclear is not the smart way for Thailand to generate electricity.

On cost: Every cost estimate for nuclear fails to adequately include such looming aspects as: security for shipments of U. Security at sites. Insurance. Environmental ramifications (such as warming sections of ocean where hot water is expelled, and keeping clams from building up on insides of intake pipes for the copious amounts of cooling water that will be needed). If you think the clams item is trivial, do some research on that issue as it affects water intakes at some other plants. ....and that's just one of several environmental concerns that are unlikely addressed by the powers-that-be (EGAT) who are full-tilt, 'come hel_l or high water' intent on getting the nuke powered plants. Also, do cost estimates fully address disposing of radioactive waste? .....eventual decommissioning the plant? Doubtful, if they do.

Comparing Nuclear to large-scale concentrated solar: that's a whole subject in itself. It would behoove all interested parties, particularly EGAT, to scrutinize that issue. Anyone who stays abreast of such things will know that large-scale solar is developing (increasing efficiency / lower cost per KW) by leaps and bounds. In contrast, nuclear has a lot of hidden costs, not least of which is corruption in the bidding and construction phases. Q: has there ever been a large scale, Thai government funded project which was not tainted by corruption?

[on-on]

Hopefully Thailand will be using Weastern technology and Western engineering, together with Western supervision.

I have been dealing lately with the Chinese funded proposal to renew the building of a nuclear plant in Bangladesh - and this scares me shitless. I have experienced both good (Sinopec) and bad (everyone else) Chinese construction on several projects and their engineering is very poor, if done at all. One power plant in Indonesia (coal-fired) they virtually designed as they built.

Western technology is very safe - witness the French power scene, where Areva and others are masters of the art of producing non-failure nuclear plants.

ut I still hope the Thais keep these plants down in the Muslim provinces and forget about Trat.

The Japanese have a fantastic, safe and much more modern nuclear industry than any other country in the world - it's among the very largest now that they've opened all their new plants. Given cultural affinities I'd almost feel better if the Japanese helped run it - also it'd be neat to see where you hide the mistress quarters in a nuclear plant. I'm guessing we're not counting the old Eastern Bloc countries in Western technologies we'd like to see used, heh. I've got a friend that does control systems in nuclear plants for Siemens and he's been sent on some revamping projects in old Soviet Satellite countries and says that's the scariest job he ever has to do.