The Fate Of "left Behind" Half-thai, Half-farang Babies ?

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

A long time ago we wrote here of our (sad) observations of a young Thai woman, so hugely pregnant with the child of an older Dutch father, and we think we wrote later of what a charming whopper of a brown-haired, blue-eyed, (but with Thai shaped eyes) big fat roly-poly baby boy he turned out to be.

Believe we expressed our puzzlement as to why this quite powerful and attractive "strapping young farm girl," (not from Chiang Mai, but working in Chiang Mai) who was NOT working as a prostitute, but as a foot-massager, would be crazy enough to have unprotected sex with some old Dutch guy over fifty who disappeared the moment she became pregnant.

So now, near 18 months (?) after the birth of this prodigy, our thoughts turn to the future of this baby. Mainly the question : does he have any future outside Thailand.

Assuming the father is not locatable in Holland, will this baby ever have any legal right to apply for any form of Dutch citizenship ? We assume not, but are curious to ask your thoughts, anyway.

Is it possible there's some NGO that helps Thai women find absconded fathers in "socially advanced" countries in Europe ? We doubt it.

In this case we don't think the young woman herself has even thought of the possibility of trying to track down "daddy."

Meanwhile, we are happy to report, this super-baby is getting taken of by a very loving Thai extended family, and, while we see him rarely, remains a happy ever-curious prodigy. The son of the sister of the baby's mother, who's about seven, and a hyper-kinetic ball of moving energy, seems to be very protective of the baby and to really enjoying playing with him.

thanks, ~o:37;

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> Assuming the father is not locatable in Holland, will this baby ever have any legal right to apply for any form of Dutch citizenship ?

Not unless he can be tracked down, DNA tests performed, etc. Would be hard to even pin-point the father.. if she did it once it's not unlikely she did it more often. My guess is that if it was feasibly to track him down she would have done so already. Babies don't appear overnight. Is she Thai by the way (ID card, etc.)?

Meanwhile, we are happy to report, this super-baby is getting taken of by a very loving Thai extended family, and, while we see him rarely, remains a happy ever-curious prodigy. The son of the sister of the baby's mother, who's about seven, and a hyper-kinetic ball of moving energy, seems to be very protective of the baby and to really enjoying playing with him.

And that is really the most encouraging thing I read so far today!!

Edited March 23, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[orang37]

Not unless he can be tracked down, DNA tests performed, etc. Would be hard to even pin-point the father.. if she did it once it's not unlikely she did it more often. My guess is that if it was feasibly to track him down she would have done so already. Babies don't appear overnight. Is she Thai by the way (ID card, etc.)?

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Winnie the Khwai,

You are so right about "babies not appearing over-night" We had noticed that before, actually.

We realize that this is probably a "no hope" case, and that it's probably even foolish to think about it, but when we see that baby (with his now still under twenty years old, I believe, mother), he pulls on our heart-strings.

It makes us want to do something like finding a picture of the father, and paying for an ad in a major newspaper in Holland with the father's picture, and the baby's picture, with (translated into Dutch) : "did you forget something in Thailand ?"

This wasn't a short-time affair that produced the pregnancy, but the pregnancy definitely terminated the affiar, whatever it was. "Daddy" never called, never sent a letter, never sent a penny after "decamping."

In any case it's the mother's business to pursue something like this, and, while "smart," she's not highly educated. Obviously the mother chose to have the child, not to have an abortion, a choice we, of course, respect.

In spite of Orang's gloom who knows what wonderful future this child with his unique genes and super-jumbo body is going to grow up to ?

best, ~o:37;

Edited March 23, 2010 by orang37

[canincm]

At this year's Toy Ride, some of the kids from the orphanages/poor schools seemed to look rather... luuk-kreung. They seemed happy as clams to be pulling out their toys though!

[Krungbin]

The sad news is that, no, I am afraid, he will never be given any rights to the Netherlands.

UNLESS.... his biological father recognizes him as his son...

Had the same case some ten years ago, Dutch "father", French mother (a stewardess)....

He never ever admitted he could be the father, he always refused all DNA testing....the mother is taking care of her son alone.

And the Dutch guy.... well, I won't tell you what I think of him, but you may guess...

[whiterussian]

The sad news is that, no, I am afraid, he will never be given any rights to the Netherlands.

UNLESS.... his biological father recognizes him as his son...

Had the same case some ten years ago, Dutch "father", French mother (a stewardess)....

He never ever admitted he could be the father, he always refused all DNA testing....the mother is taking care of her son alone.

And the Dutch guy.... well, I won't tell you what I think of him, but you may guess...

You can go to court over that.. my French cousin was legally 'recognised' by Austrian father.. and dosh duly handed over.

----

There is a sweet - abandonded - loog krung out in San K area, the other kids call her 'kinock'

oh well, she will probably bag a rich Thai husband one day.

or..

lets not go there.

Edited March 23, 2010 by whiterussian

[sarahsbloke]

Surely the person who chooses to have the child should be the one who has to pay for it?

Nobody is forcing these ladies to conceive or give birth!

Contraception is free, a five-year implant is no bother at all.

Edited March 23, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[millwall_fan]

A good many loog krung actually do well in Thai society, either through good looks or if the father sticks around for long enough, fluent English skills or just hrough being tenacious and battling against the odds. Tongchai 'Bird' McIntyre springs to mind as a second generation loog krung who made it to the top in the music business. Our very own Pim would be another successful 'loog krung' I'm sure old stagers here will know others. These kids are now recognised as full members of Thai society, whereas a generation or so ago they were treated as freaks at best. God willing, by the time my own loog krung son grows up, Thailand will have fully recognised that mixed race kids are a valuable asset and integral part of Thai society with a lot to contribute.

[OZEMADE]

Surely the person who chooses to have the child should be the one who has to pay for it?

Nobody is forcing these ladies to conceive or give birth!

Contraception is free, a five-year implant is no bother at all.

If it is FREE the lady was not informed of this. Where is it free.

The only bother would be the cash to pay for it, a bit hard when you only have enough to feed yourself with a handfull of rice and then share that as well.

However if he was to have had an op which he obviously can afford, it would stop him having kids all over the place and leaving these ladies in distress and who are not that well educated in these matters pregnant.

Who is at fault? HE IS.

[anonymouse]

A good many loog krung actually do well in Thai society, either through good looks or if the father sticks around for long enough, fluent English skills or just hrough being tenacious and battling against the odds. Tongchai 'Bird' McIntyre springs to mind as a second generation loog krung who made it to the top in the music business. Our very own Pim would be another successful 'loog krung' I'm sure old stagers here will know others. These kids are now recognised as full members of Thai society, whereas a generation or so ago they were treated as freaks at best. God willing, by the time my own loog krung son grows up, Thailand will have fully recognised that mixed race kids are a valuable asset and integral part of Thai society with a lot to contribute.

lets hope so

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Surely the person who chooses to have the child should be the one who has to pay for it?

Nobody is forcing these ladies to conceive or give birth!

Contraception is free, a five-year implant is no bother at all.

If it is FREE the lady was not informed of this. Where is it free.

Condoms are free. Have been free for over a decade. Any government health station will issue you a couple boxes full if you just ask.

They're not the most refined examples of ultra-thin engineering, but they do however work.

[Pdaz]

Wait a few more years and the bars of Pattaya will be overflowing with Luk Kreung hostesses.. Once their dead beat Dad's run out of cash and have to head home.. Or worse the older Dad's pass away and the ex BG mother's family squander the inheritance..

Like has been said already in the past Luk Kreung kids were seen as unusual and a rare event.. But anyone walking around Carrefour or visiting a kindergarten here will see dozens of LK kids.. Seems that half the divorced population of Europe/US/Etc arrived here in the last 10 years and few bothered with contraception..Not all farangs are rich and not all provide a future for their kids.. Though I'm sure most of the Dad's love their offspring the fact that they are often in their 60's means their kid will most likely be fatherless by the time the child reaches it's teens..

[sarahsbloke]

If it is FREE the lady was not informed of this. Where is it free.

The only bother would be the cash to pay for it, a bit hard when you only have enough to feed yourself with a handful of rice and then share that as well.

However if he was to have had an op which he obviously can afford, it would stop him having kids all over the place and leaving these ladies in distress and who are not that well-educated in these matters pregnant.

Who is at fault? HE IS. mad.gif

You can get the 5 year implant for free as well, most hospitals from the king will provide the service to a Thai lady.

Men don't have kids 'all over the place', but some women seek to trap men with a child and then use the man as an ATM.

It's about time feminists took responsibility for their actions and met their own financial obligations.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Wait a few more years and the bars of Pattaya will be overflowing with Luk Kreung hostesses..

Oh.. stop!!!

That'd be $*)#*@# AWESOME, but I'll believe it when I see it.

anyone walking around Carrefour or visiting a kindergarten here will see dozens of LK kids.. Seems that half the divorced population of Europe/US/Etc arrived here in the last 10 years and few bothered with contraception..Not all farangs are rich and not all provide a future for their kids.. Though I'm sure most of the Dad's love their offspring the fact that they are often in their 60's means their kid will most likely be fatherless by the time the child reaches it's teens..

True deadbeats are probably a minority though. So most LK kids at least won't be at a disadvantage compared to any other kids.

[hansnoi]

Surely the person who chooses to have the child should be the one who has to pay for it?

Nobody is forcing these ladies to conceive or give birth!

Contraception is free, a five-year implant is no bother at all.

also no one can force a woman to have an abortion. 'conceiving' means two persons are involved and responsible. the (thai) mother takes her responsability by raising the child and paying for it. The bloody farang runs away and doesnot bother to share any responsability I would be happy to see these guys when they re-entry Thailand DNA-examined and obliged to pay there share in the costs of upbringing their child. Since Thai society is also paying (in terms of education, health etc) it would be fair when running away from paternal obiligations was considered to be a crime punishable by law. I do not see all Thai (women) as angels and all farang as sinners. But sadly enough there are far too many farang men who treat Thai citizens like shit and the above mentioned comment ishows for me the same mentality.

[sarahsbloke]

Nobody can force a woman to conceive either, their choice, and if a decision taken alone surely their problem.

There are plenty of people in this world looking for a free lifetime meal ticket.

Some Thai guys don't seem to worry too much about supporting their offspring either, why should western men be treated differently?

(I know this because I support a 12 year old girl with a Thai father who has only written 2 letters to her in that 12 years and never bothered to visit or support her EVER) She has been fatherless since well before her teens ..... only now has she gained an 'old father'

Thai law is fairly clear on paternity (which nobody enforces), again are you suggesting a different set of laws for foreigners with different enforcement rules?

Can we not have personal insults please, against forum rules.

Edited March 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Bagwan]

Nobody can force a woman to conceive either, their choice, and if a decision taken alone surely their problem.

There are plenty of people in this world looking for a free lifetime meal ticket.

Thai guys don't seem to worry too much about supporting their offspring, why should western men be treated differently?

(I know this because I support a 12 year old girl with a Thai father who has only written 2 letters to her in that 12 years and never bothered to visit or support her EVER)

Can we not have personal insults please, against forum rules.

It seems to me that the child would be better off without such a gutless father who is unable to accept responsibility for his actions and obviously doesn't know right from wrong.

[hansnl]

Some thoughts from a Dutchman living in Thailand.

As long as the child is not "recognised"by the father as being his offspring before birth, there is very little chance the Dutch authorities will recognise any claim.

Finding the father should be possible, if found, paternity can be a matter of DNA.

After this, maybe the child would be able to get a Dutch passport, would be very difficult, but advisable to try.

Getting child support from the father would be easy in Holland, no problem.

But..... as Thailand has no Governmental Organisation for distributing child support, or even getting child support from a Thai father, and there it stops.

In all cases a Dutch lawyer would be needed.

Name, picture anything known of the father would be helpful.

I feel ashamed, being a Dutchman, for the behaviour of this man.

If you have sex with a woman and do not use anything to stop her getting pregnant, morally you should take care of the child.

And I am not talking about the mother, because she made the same mistake.

The child is not to blame, and should have all possible help from father and mother.

If there is a name known, and preferably a hometown, search in the Dutch telephone guide "De Telefoongids" .

If he is in there, you can find his address and even a map to his address.

Try to find a lawyer (advocaat), being poor in the Dutch sense will mean that there will be a very low legal tariff.

A lawyer can contact a Notary (Notaris), who will be able to search all relevant GBA (Amphur) files.

If ordered by the court, the father needs to give DNA (Paternity case)

However, there might be a chance that the man has already submited DNA in Thailand.

Success.

Edited March 24, 2010 by hansnl

[sarahsbloke]

Maybe everyone in the world should be forced into giving a DNA sample held in a central database.

Whenever any woman anywhere has a baby the DNA should be done and the appropriate father forced to pay by direct deduction from his wage.

Same rules for every man, woman and baby, no exceptions. Just because the woman is married, no exception, test done, true father identified every time. This would stop a lot of dishonesty.

This should be doable.

Lets make it retroactive, and please start with royalty, include all of Princess Diana's royal children (from the UK), and every other royal personages children, prime ministers, etc. I think the UK statistics say 1 child in 8 in the UK is not related to the person they believe is their father.

If a man has been wrongly paying maintenance for a child not his, full refund (either from woman or government awarding payments).

Justice for all, what a wonderful world it would be.

Just one more thought, how does anyone know the Dutch man is the father?

Just because a girl who works in a massage parlor claims it to be true ('I think his name was Yan').

Shouldn't we be saying the alleged father, I know some girls with 4 or 5 foreign guys on the go at the same time.

Sorry forgot myself there for a moment (bit of a rant)...... the man is, of course, always guilty until proved innocent.

Can I suggest a rule of combat on this thread, before you accuse someone else of being a bad man with bad moral values, you have to be supporting at least 1 Thai child not fathered by you (I think that's fair)

Edited March 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[hansnoi]

Some thoughts from a Dutchman living in Thailand.

I feel ashamed, being a Dutchman, for the behaviour of this man.

If you have sex with a woman and do not use anything to stop her getting pregnant, morally you should take care of the child.

And I am not talking about the mother, because she made the same mistake.

The child is not to blame, and should have all possible help from father and mother

thank you fellow Dutchman. totally agree with you and feel the same. For Sarahbloke: i was not trying to insult you. but wordings in your post like 'these ladies', going for a free meal ticket and putting all the responsability to the Thai woman were for me, i am sorry to say so, a demonstration of a wrong mentality towards citizens of our host country. Hiding behind bad behaving Thai men cannot be an alibi for 'fleeing' farang. In their own countries they never would get away with this. Glad to read that you take care for a Thai child, I am doing the same for a child of a German coward. So let's conclude that we know what we are talking about and not ridiculise the topic as you did in your last post. Have a nice day.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

First, like to say that this same scenario could occur just with the father being from any country; in no way was there meant to be any implication that the fact the father is, in this case, Dutch, has any special meaning. Personally we like and respect the Dutch we've met, and love Amsterdam (the only European city we have ever had the privilege to visit).

Yes, there's no doubt it takes two to conceive a child, but in this case what bothers us deeply is the "power differential" involved : on the one hand you have an eighteen-nineteen year old unsophisticated not-worldy-wise young lady from a poor background far away from home making money to send back home : on the other hand you have a fifty-something man from an "advanced" country.

We believe a man who gets a woman pregnant in circumstances like these, and abandons her and the baby is nothing less than EVIL. We never asked the young lady, when we first knew she was pregnant, why she didn't have an abortion (but we did ask her older sister : her older sister said her family was Buddhist and that "was that").

The idea of comparing some of the luk-khreung mentioned on this thread who grew up in an educated, privileged, stable, and well-to-do family with farang father on hand (Khun Pim) with this situation seems truly confused. We don't know anything about Bird's life.

But, yes there are a lot of luk-khreung in show business, modelling, etc.

From our point of view this baby's birth is another sorry episode in the rape and looting of the orient by the west.

~o:37;

Edited March 24, 2010 by orang37

[JohnQ]

What I don't understand are men over 45 who are not financially secure voluntarily having kids in Thailand. They're usually not well-educated, come from lower class backgrounds and are involved with Thai women from similar backgrounds. What kind of future will their kids have?

[paulchiangmai]

Not unless he can be tracked down, DNA tests performed, etc. Would be hard to even pin-point the father.. if she did it once it's not unlikely she did it more often. My guess is that if it was feasibly to track him down she would have done so already. Babies don't appear overnight. Is she Thai by the way (ID card, etc.)?

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Winnie the Khwai,

You are so right about "babies not appearing over-night" We had noticed that before, actually.

We realize that this is probably a "no hope" case, and that it's probably even foolish to think about it, but when we see that baby (with his now still under twenty years old, I believe, mother), he pulls on our heart-strings.

It makes us want to do something like finding a picture of the father, and paying for an ad in a major newspaper in Holland with the father's picture, and the baby's picture, with (translated into Dutch) : "did you forget something in Thailand ?"

This wasn't a short-time affair that produced the pregnancy, but the pregnancy definitely terminated the affiar, whatever it was. "Daddy" never called, never sent a letter, never sent a penny after "decamping."

In any case it's the mother's business to pursue something like this, and, while "smart," she's not highly educated. Obviously the mother chose to have the child, not to have an abortion, a choice we, of course, respect.

In spite of Orang's gloom who knows what wonderful future this child with his unique genes and super-jumbo body is going to grow up to ?

best, ~o:37;

I admire you orang37, if only there were more caring people in this world, especially on Thai Visa.

[Bill97]

What I don't understand are men over 45 who are not financially secure voluntarily having kids in Thailand. They're usually not well-educated, come from lower class backgrounds and are involved with Thai women from similar backgrounds. What kind of future will their kids have?

Yes, right on. People without money, without good educations and of lower class backgrounds should not be allowed to have children. Neuter them all, right?

[OZEMADE]

Surely the person who chooses to have the child should be the one who has to pay for it?

Nobody is forcing these ladies to conceive or give birth!

Contraception is free, a five-year implant is no bother at all.

If it is FREE the lady was not informed of this. Where is it free.

Condoms are free. Have been free for over a decade. Any government health station will issue you a couple boxes full if you just ask.

They're not the most refined examples of ultra-thin engineering, but they do however work.

I was under the impression he was talking about a 5 year implant, that's not free.

[hmficc]

Put away the crying towel. Unprotected sex? What planet are they from? have they not heard of AIDS?

Start counting the number of kids who are not supported by Thai fathers and get back to us in a few years to let us know how many millions you are up to.

A Dutch passport. We are full of ourselves in the west. I would think a Thai passport would be just fine for a child brought up in Thailand.

[sarahsbloke]

Yes, right on. People without money, without good educations and of lower class backgrounds should not be allowed to have children. Neuter them all, right?

This was already tried between 1940 to about 1970 and was done by an organisation called 'The American Eugenics Society'

It didn't work all that well.

[krakatoa]

If it is FREE the lady was not informed of this. Where is it free.

The only bother would be the cash to pay for it, a bit hard when you only have enough to feed yourself with a handful of rice and then share that as well.

However if he was to have had an op which he obviously can afford, it would stop him having kids all over the place and leaving these ladies in distress and who are not that well-educated in these matters pregnant.

Who is at fault? HE IS. mad.gif

You can get the 5 year implant for free as well, most hospitals from the king will provide the service to a Thai lady.

Men don't have kids 'all over the place', but some women seek to trap men with a child and then use the man as an ATM.

It's about time feminists took responsibility for their actions and met their own financial obligations.

You're right, it takes 'two to tango' and if the girl doesn't drop her drawers for anything with a pulse she ain't gonna get knocked up.

Remember there has only ever been one woman in over 2,000 years who supposedly got knocked up with out the assistance of a male and even that claim has been challenged.

No (and I am not even suggesting it in this case) but if the girl is some ho working the Loi Khoh beat and she gets herself in the pudding club she is 100% responsible. It would be the result of a commercial transaction and she would be 100% responsible for her own well being.

The facts are that too many Thai girls are so naive and when someone says the magic words 'I love you' off come the knickers and the brain shuts down. If they had an education sysytem that included some 'birds and bees' stuff there might be a few less getting them selves into this sort of predicament.

[krakatoa]

Put away the crying towel. Unprotected sex? What planet are they from? have they not heard of AIDS?

Start counting the number of kids who are not supported by Thai fathers and get back to us in a few years to let us know how many millions you are up to.

A Dutch passport. We are full of ourselves in the west. I would think a Thai passport would be just fine for a child brought up in Thailand.

And you too are 100% right. I know a Thail girl and she has three children by three diferent men. She was knocked up a 4th time (you got it, another Thai man) and I paid for the abortion.

Apart form the good Thai guys of which are a minority the rest are pure sc*m of the earth and don't deserve the O2 in the air that they breath

[Limbo]

I happen to know a Dutchman who met a nice young Thai lady with a daughter.

He fell in love with her and they married, thus accepting the daughter and taking

care of her.

The Thai father of the girl, living together with a boyfriend in the mean time, showed

up after more than ten years at the house and claimed 'his' daughter.

Only fifty thousand Baht would be enough to drop his claim. The girl was fifteen then.

He threathened with legal procedures as there never had been a courtcase and

he actually still meant to be in the position to claim the young lady.

The girl hardly knew him.

The Dutchman gave him twenty thousand to avoid a long and emotionally disturbing

process. To a certain degree also out of fear for kidnappings etc etc.

Limbo

PS: The first Dutch orphanage in Thailand was founded in 1612 on the compound of

the VOC (Dutch East-Indian Tradecompany) in Ayutthaya, so even in these early

days there was a collective sense of responsability. It was meant for children fathered

by Dutch personnel. Maybe the Dutch Thai Society of Chiang Mai should have a look

at the matter. There is even a 'proposed' Dutch consul in Chiang Mai.