Would It Be Possible To...

[Leslie1984]

Hi all,

Kind of silly question, but would it be possible after using up the Non O Visa "based on visiting friends and family" (15 months) to head to one of the land borders and leave Thailand, once in a new country send my passport back to family to apply for the same Non O Visa, get them to send it back and re-enter via the same land border thus getting another 15 months stay? I.e would you be able to do this technically forever without flying back to the UK or the nearest issuing country Australia.

And if this is possible how risky is it sending your passport in the post these days in Asia, are the postage offices similar to that back home i.e Royal Mail?

[InterestedObserver]

In simple language it is illegal not to have your passport in your possession at all times while overseas. Whether or not what you propose is done, is irrelevant.

[gotlost]

There are people that have done as you are asking. It is agents the law in most cases. If found out by the country you are in you very well maybe singing high C"s in their jails for sometime.

[Tod Daniels]

This point has been debated extensively here on T/V with posters coming out in force saying this is against thai law.

Currently the thai rule is "you cannot be INSIDE thailand to apply for a thai visa at a thai embassy in another country'. There is NOTHING written in the thai rules which state anywhere that you can't go to another country and do it all by mail. It is up to the individual thai embassies or consulates as to their restrictions on this practice.

Here's an example. There is nothing stopping you from crossing over to Cambodia, checking into a guesthouse, FedEx'ing your passport and application to friends or relatives in the UK, having them send it on to Hull, having Hull return it via post to them inside the UK, and finally having your friends or relatives send it back to you via FedEx in Cambodia. I know many, many people who have done this. They use the Philippines as their 'camp out' spot while their passport wings its way around the world.

You may however run into problems in what ever country you’re 'camped-out' in while waiting for your passport to make the journey. Some countries are sticklers that a foreigner must be in possession of their passport all the time, some are not. I'd certainly copy your passport's front page, and the page which shows a valid visa for what ever country you're in at the time. In most cases, unless you really run amok, that's sufficient proof of who you are and that you have a right to be there.

FedEx and/or DHL are what the people I know use for this purpose.

Your mileage MAY vary, as will the responses you'll get to this post. But AFAIK, it works, and it doesn't violate ANY thai law or rule concerning visas. The BIG no-no as far as thai rules/laws is; you can’t be INSIDE the country while doing this.

[tripplejjj]

Many countries, by law, require that foreigners have in their possession a valid passport and visa. (Enforcement of such a law is debatable.) The idea that the OP purposes is technically possible but some where or some how he would be breaking a law when his passport is no longer in his possession. To really make sure that the passport don't get lost in the mail, he would have to register the mail and use some form of tracking. Now, let's suppose the day the registered mail comes back to him. What would he do when a mail carrier asked for proof of ID such as a passport (because he is a foreigner)?

[steve187]

nearly all posters have said it is illegal to remain in many countries without a passport, they may be so, BUT to now apply for a British passport within Asia it has to be sent to Hong Kong, leaving you without your passport for( as the web site says) up to 10 days. so the British government don't seem to be worried about this passports being required to stay in a country, as it is saving them money,so surely we should not be worried about the passports required rule when it is perfectly legal from the Thai point of view to obtain a passport in this manor.

Another thought springs to mind would be to obtain an additional passport and start the process of obtaining a new visa whilst within Thailand on the second passport, but make sure that you are in an adjoining country when the application is actually before the embassy/consulate, using a friend to take the passport to and from England would be the icing on the cake. thereby alternating the passport in use each year.

No doubt someone on here will have a different slant on the matter, but to answer the posters question it is possible to do as he has suggested

[Lite Beer]

nearly all posters have said it is illegal to remain in many countries without a passport, they may be so, BUT to now apply for a British passport within Asia it has to be sent to Hong Kong, leaving you without your passport for( as the web site says) up to 10 days.

You do not send your Passport to Hong Kong.

You send a copy of the data page.

British Embassy

#

# In addition to your completed application form, photos and fee, you will need to submit a clear photocopy of the data page of your previous passport. The passport being renewed will be electronically cancelled and is therefore not valid for use from the moment you submit your application. On receipt of your new passport you must physically cancel your old passport by cutting the corners of the photo page and the front and back covers. Failure to do so may leave your replaced passport open to abuse. Alternatively you should visit the British Embassy to have your replaced passport physically cancelled.

[Edmond]

Yes you can do this, it is not breaking any laws in Thailand because you wouldn't be here. Anyone tells you different does not know what they are talking about.

Copy your passport and visa application and keep that with you whilst you sit around the swimming pool sipping a cocktail with your original visa and application sent via courier with online tracking, DHL, EMS, FEDEX etc etc.

Keep a copy with you and the contact number for Hull Embassy (for example) so you verify and explain why you temporarily do not have the original with you just in-case your asked. Keep you head down and out of trouble and you will be fine. Have your family courier the paper work back to your hotel with online tracking.

You are not breaking any laws in Thailand, the Marco Polos that will tell you otherwise are an odd bunch, its like they dont approve of anything that isnt written in Lonely Planet.

Going to a neighboring country for a 10 day break, beats flying to the UK and back if your only purpose is to obtain a new visa. It's a waste of money when you can relax and enjoy yourself elsewhere rather than Hull City Center.

[Eureka]

This point has been debated extensively here on T/V with posters coming out in force saying this is against thai law.

Currently the thai rule is "you cannot be INSIDE thailand to apply for a thai visa at a thai embassy in another country'. There is NOTHING written in the thai rules which state anywhere that you can't go to another country and do it all by mail. It is up to the individual thai embassies or consulates as to their restrictions on this practice.

TRUE. You are breaking the laws of both the country you are currently in AND of the country who issued the passport.

Here's an example. There is nothing stopping you from crossing over to Cambodia, checking into a guesthouse, FedEx'ing your passport and application to friends or relatives in the UK, having them send it on to Hull, having Hull return it via post to them inside the UK, and finally having your friends or relatives send it back to you via FedEx in Cambodia. I know many, many people who have done this. They use the Philippines as their 'camp out' spot while their passport wings its way around the world.

If you are detained in a country without a legal permit to stay you face sever penalties. Check with your own government as you should find that you cannot send your passport whilst in any other country than the country which owns the passport. You DO NOT own the passport. If you are caught handing the passport to someone other than a recognised official and/or not providing due care as to the safe keeping of the passport you could have the passport withdrawn and restrictions on a replacement. Passports are considered a privillage and NOT a right. Their simple reply is "You screwed up so now you have to stay home." just ask that scum G. Glitter.

You may however run into problems in what ever country you’re 'camped-out' in while waiting for your passport to make the journey. Some countries are sticklers that a foreigner must be in possession of their passport all the time, some are not. I'd certainly copy your passport's front page, and the page which shows a valid visa for what ever country you're in at the time. In most cases, unless you really run amok, that's sufficient proof of who you are and that you have a right to be there.

Photocopies are not sufficient proof. Ask anyone who has supplied documents to embassies or governments. Yes they retain a copy AFTER they witness the original document.

FedEx and/or DHL are what the people I know use for this purpose.

Your mileage MAY vary, as will the responses you'll get to this post. But AFAIK, it works, and it doesn't violate ANY thai law or rule concerning visas. The BIG no-no as far as thai rules/laws is; you can’t be INSIDE the country while doing this.

Although you are not breaking Thai Laws you are violating far more serious laws in you home country and in the country you use as a base you are an illegal allien as you do not have possession of a legal travel document. Contacting your embassy when it goes pear shaped will require a false declaration if you want to try and avoid legal problems back home.

Remember just because others are doing it does not make it right or legal.

Anyone remember the old Visa Runs when your passport went to the border without you. Even though it was advertised and practised openly it was highly illegal as many who received fines, bans from Thailand and jail time can attest. I personally know several who received sizeable fines and another who received a 99 year ban from Thailand after having spent 7 months under House Arrest.

Do as you please but do't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[Eureka]

Yes you can do this, it is not breaking any laws in Thailand because you wouldn't be here. Anyone tells you different does not know what they are talking about.

Copy your passport and visa application and keep that with you whilst you sit around the swimming pool sipping a cocktail with your original visa and application sent via courier with online tracking, DHL, EMS, FEDEX etc etc.

Keep a copy with you and the contact number for Hull Embassy (for example) so you verify and explain why you temporarily do not have the original with you just in-case your asked. Keep you head down and out of trouble and you will be fine. Have your family courier the paper work back to your hotel with online tracking.

You are not breaking any laws in Thailand, the Marco Polos that will tell you otherwise are an odd bunch, its like they dont approve of anything that isnt written in Lonely Planet.

Going to a neighboring country for a 10 day break, beats flying to the UK and back if your only purpose is to obtain a new visa. It's a waste of money when you can relax and enjoy yourself elsewhere rather than Hull City Center.

TRUE. However you have only addressed the laws of one of the three countries involved in this venture. The penalties for violating the Thai laws are far less than those for being in a country illegally (no travel documents) or of the country responsible for the passport. You agreed to certain conditions in order to be issued with a passport and even if you failed to take notice of them breaching them will still carry the outlined penaties.

Remember that ignorance is not a defence under the law.

If you get away with a warning instead of a speeding ticket that does not mean that it is now lawfull to speed so please do not indicate that it is or think that we would be naive enough to believe.

[rodcourt49]

Yes you can do this, it is not breaking any laws in Thailand because you wouldn't be here. Anyone tells you different does not know what they are talking about.

Copy your passport and visa application and keep that with you whilst you sit around the swimming pool sipping a cocktail with your original visa and application sent via courier with online tracking, DHL, EMS, FEDEX etc etc.

Keep a copy with you and the contact number for Hull Embassy (for example) so you verify and explain why you temporarily do not have the original with you just in-case your asked. Keep you head down and out of trouble and you will be fine. Have your family courier the paper work back to your hotel with online tracking.

You are not breaking any laws in Thailand, the Marco Polos that will tell you otherwise are an odd bunch, its like they dont approve of anything that isnt written in Lonely Planet.

Going to a neighboring country for a 10 day break, beats flying to the UK and back if your only purpose is to obtain a new visa. It's a waste of money when you can relax and enjoy yourself elsewhere rather than Hull City Center.

What if you have no-one to send back the visa..does your embassy in Hull use an Express Courier Service if you included say a Paid Return envelope or Charge To service ala FedeX etc?

[Edmond]

What if you have no-one to send back the visa..does your embassy in Hull use an Express Courier Service if you included say a Paid Return envelope or Charge To service ala FedeX etc?

Absolutely not, your documents can only be sent from the embassy in Hull to a UK address, there is no other way around that.

[Edmond]

Anyone remember the old Visa Runs when your passport went to the border without you. Even though it was advertised and practised openly it was highly illegal as many who received fines, bans from Thailand and jail time can attest. I personally know several who received sizeable fines and another who received a 99 year ban from Thailand after having spent 7 months under House Arrest.

Are you deliberately trying to unnecessarily frighten people? There are no 99 year bans or jail time in Thailand for doing what the OP has asked!

Do as you please but do't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Give me strength.

[steve187]

nearly all posters have said it is illegal to remain in many countries without a passport, they may be so, BUT to now apply for a British passport within Asia it has to be sent to Hong Kong, leaving you without your passport for( as the web site says) up to 10 days.

You do not send your Passport to Hong Kong.

You send a copy of the data page.

British Embassy

#

# In addition to your completed application form, photos and fee, you will need to submit a clear photocopy of the data page of your previous passport. The passport being renewed will be electronically cancelled and is therefore not valid for use from the moment you submit your application. On receipt of your new passport you must physically cancel your old passport by cutting the corners of the photo page and the front and back covers. Failure to do so may leave your replaced passport open to abuse. Alternatively you should visit the British Embassy to have your replaced passport physically cancelled.

thanks for that i wasn't aware.

[somtampet]

In simple language it is illegal not to have your passport in your possession at all times while overseas. Whether or not what you propose is done, is irrelevant.

I renewed my passport by post to Bangkok,and they didnt phone me to say it was illegal to send.

[somtampet]

I always thought to apply for,and get a multi o you need to send by post from your country of birth or post it.Anything else is illegal

[roiethome]

I see so many people talk about the problems of not showing a passport, if you send it out for a new visa. But what are the chances of ever being stopped and asked for it in reality. Over the past 15 years I have worked in every Asian country and never carry my passport, keep it locked up safe back at base, and have never once been asked to produce it, the odds must be millions to one of being asked to produce it.

[Eureka]

Anyone remember the old Visa Runs when your passport went to the border without you. Even though it was advertised and practised openly it was highly illegal as many who received fines, bans from Thailand and jail time can attest. I personally know several who received sizeable fines and another who received a 99 year ban from Thailand after having spent 7 months under House Arrest.

Are you deliberately trying to unnecessarily frighten people? There are no 99 year bans or jail time in Thailand for doing what the OP has asked!

Do as you please but do't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Give me strength.

Check the post properly as I did not state that this was, or was not, the penalty which could be imposed for the crime you are encouraging.

It was to point out for those with limited experience in LOS that conditions can, and do, alter on the whims of those in power at the time. Examples are made at different times and if you are willing to take the risk it is your choice.

The statement "Do as you please but don't do the crime if you can't do the time." Still stands true as it is a "saying" if you are unaware and you will find the following information.

A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises you not to do something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences.

If you like you can even purchase T-shirts or coffee mugs at www urbandictionary com / products.php?defid=1351664

As someone who likes to give advise maybe you should learn the value of accepting some in return.

"The first step towards knowledge is to know that we are ignorant." Richard Cecil

[Edmond]

I am fully aware of the expression thank you.

Thank You for the suggestion about the "if you cant do the time...." T-Shirt, that's really useful and helpful. I have my Credit Card card sitting right in front of me and am over whelmed with anticipation to order one and wear it out with the lads next Friday night.

My only concern is getting locked up for actually wearing it but hey as you say I should learn to listen more to such meaningful and educational advice.

[JimGant]

Remember that ignorance is not a defence under the law.

Does anyone reading all this actually carry his passport while in Thailand, IAW Thai law? (Other than Eureka, of course.)

[astral]

Down in Malaysia you are unlikely to be bother by anyone asking for your passport

after you enter the country.

So go ahead and send it off to the UK (Hull) for the visa via your family.

Best to use a courier as that will ensure safe passage.

Do NOT attempt this while you are in Thailand, or you will be in trouble