Thai Government, Protesters Edge Towards Talk

[johndpoole]

And how the heck is anything going to get agreed upon if they televise these discussions??????????????

Let them talk behind closed doors so non-disclosed offers and counter offers can be made and side issues proposed and agreed upon. Then come out of the meeting and talk about what they agreed or didn't agree on.

Really, what is it the Red's need so bad NOW that they cannot wait for elections next year????????

[anotherpeter]

What of course would have been interesting would have been the inclusion of say ''three of the current demonstrators off of the street.''

These are the very people that the Red Shirt three man negotiation team claim to represent, yet they are the very people being denied a voice in the matter.

Perhaps the fear is that the ordinary man and woman on the street do not share the same ideas as their self elected leadership.

So you're suggesting that the red shirts sends one of the protesters to the meeting to talk with Abhisit? Surely you're also suggesting that Abhisit also should send an average person then, to be fair, right? So what exactly, in your opinion, would the talks between 2 average Thais with no political position achieve? Let's just say, your idea doesn't make sense, and we'll leave it at that.

The red shirt leaders may be self elected, but Abhisit is army-elected.

Actually, Abhisit was elected by the majority of elected MPs. That makes him elected by the majority of the Thai voters.

...only after enough TRT/PPP MPs were disqualified to give the Democrat-coalition a majority, though. Shouldn't in that case elections be held instead?

How many PPP MPs were banned?

After the MPs were banned by-elections were held in those electorates. After the by-elections the PTP (where most of the PPP MPs moved to) could still have formed a coalition government. At that point there was no Democrat coalition.

The PTP couldn't get the smaller parties to support them, so the Democrats then formed a coalition with them and formed government.

A general election wasn't required because by-elections were held.

[jdinasia]

Thanks. Then I am really confused with anyone siding with the Reds at this point. I am all for protests and demanding things such as finding ways to increasing jobs in the rural parts of the country or more affordable and free social services but demanding disbanding government and calling for elections immediately is insane.

If asking for the house to be dissolved and new elections called is insane, how would you describe a legitimately elected government overthrown by an army coup. What would that be called? Democracy?

I would point out that there wasn't an elected government in place when the 2006 coup happened (you should get your facts right before being smart! ) What was in place in 2006 was a caretaker government that had been in office longer than was allowed by the constitution.

[rainman]

You really don't get it. Just stop following my posts around like a puppy dog, okay?

[traderjm]

I thought Abhisit and Veera both did that well today. The other speakers were less memorable

Interestingly enough after watching a fair bit of it with my wife, she said she was very proud of the PM and was confused how any educated person could not see and hear that he really is looking out for ALL of Thailand or attempting to. Of course she also mentioned that ANY Politician in Thailand has to be corrupt to get elected haha... not cynical my wife that's for sure... but I digress. She said in her opinion that dissolving the house now would just make things worse and possibly lead to an actual civil war as there is a HUGE (much much bigger than the REDS) silent (at this point) majority that have just about had it with all of this. How true or not that is remains to be seen but that was her take on it.

I found the PM to be well spoken and he made many good points, I also enjoyed listening to Veera speak. I admit I did not agree with his point of view for the most part but he at least came across as educated and also looking for a way out of this were all can appear to have won...

I guess the beat goes on.

[jackspratt]

When Newin was part of Thaksin's coalition, he wasn't banned from politics. Funny however that Newin's party can form a coalition with Abhisit after he was banned from politics, though. You need to get your facts straight before attempting to be smart.

Logic really isn't your strong suite, is it.

Newin is a villain - he was a villain when he was in bed with Thaksin, and he is still a villain now. Bit similar to Chalerm and Yongyuth actually (remind me - where are they now?)

If you didn't complain then, please don't bother now.

Thaksin's party was still able to form a coalition after some of their MPs were banned - the majority were not, and simply moved to a new party ie exactly the same as Newin's block of MPs have done now.

Edited March 28, 2010 by jackspratt

[rainman]

Thanks. Then I am really confused with anyone siding with the Reds at this point. I am all for protests and demanding things such as finding ways to increasing jobs in the rural parts of the country or more affordable and free social services but demanding disbanding government and calling for elections immediately is insane.

If asking for the house to be dissolved and new elections called is insane, how would you describe a legitimately elected government overthrown by an army coup. What would that be called? Democracy?

I would point out that there wasn't an elected government in place when the 2006 coup happened (you should get your facts right before being smart! ) What was in place in 2006 was a caretaker government that had been in office longer than was allowed by the constitution.

You're about 66 years old, am I assuming correctly? That's if you were 16 years old when twisting was invented 50 years ago.

[ovaltina]

I just watched the Bbc 'coverage' of this whole thing, which was <1 minute, consisted of a looped flim clip of some red people-carriers turning the same corner & then looping back, while this Bbc woman with the permanent Bad Hair Day just talked about how its all lovely & it all ok now. She didn't mention the 3 injured soldiers, who were grenaded by the reds.

Where's your proof that the grenades were thrown by red shirts? Or is that an assumption?

It could have been mossad!

Or it could have been little Red riding hood. At least she had the right coloured clothes. 'Oh,my Grandma, what big teeth you've got!'.

[lannarebirth]

And how the heck is anything going to get agreed upon if they televise these discussions??????????????

This isn't a poker game where deceit is a virtue and one keeps their cards well hidden. It is a NATIONAL dialogue where many Thais are hearing the other side's case for the very first time. It's important for then to judge the transparency of the proceedings together with the intentions and good faith of the participants. All IMHO of course.

[neverdie]

Ohh dear, its easy to see a certain farang red shirter as at his usual again

ThaiVisa should really put up a disclaimer before joining which states that other people might have different opinions than your own. This way, people like yourself wouldn't get confused every day. Don't you think?

Thats a bit rich rainman, especially coming from YOU .

Let me see, I don't think you will find me sprouting off in the political pages trying to force my red shirt down everyone elses throats, unlike yourself.

I am more than accepting of the fact that people are entitled to their own varying opinions, everyone here has heard all your claptrap for years now, you've stated your case, how many more times are you going to spew the same information out?

Edited March 28, 2010 by neverdie

[anotherpeter]

And how the heck is anything going to get agreed upon if they televise these discussions??????????????

Let them talk behind closed doors so non-disclosed offers and counter offers can be made and side issues proposed and agreed upon. Then come out of the meeting and talk about what they agreed or didn't agree on.

Really, what is it the Red's need so bad NOW that they cannot wait for elections next year????????

The reds need to make sure they have momentum and the Democrats do not.

If they wait until next year, the Democrats will be able to show that they are not as bad as the poor farmers currently think.

Also, Thaksin has lots of legal issues that need to be nipped in the bud. If the a Thaksin party gets into government soon, these can disappear.

[rainman]

Ohh dear, its easy to see a certain farang red shirter as at his usual again

ThaiVisa should really put up a disclaimer before joining which states that other people might have different opinions than your own. This way, people like yourself wouldn't get confused every day. Don't you think?

Thats a bit rich rainman, especially coming from YOU .

Let me see, I don't think you will find me sprouting off in the political pages trying to force my red shirt down everyone elses throats, unlike yourself.

I am more than accepting of the fact that people are entitled to their own varying opinions, everyone here has heard all your claptrap for years now, you've stated your case, how many more times are you going to spew the same information out?

Uh, no ...you're not forcing your red shirt (I didn't know you had a red shirt, btw!) down anyone's throat. You're simply trying to legitimize an army coup and an installed PM puppet. There are people that can't defend something like that, and I'm one of them. If you can, good for you.

[jdinasia]

And how the heck is anything going to get agreed upon if they televise these discussions??????????????

This isn't a poker game where deceit is a virtue and one keeps their cards well hidden. It is a NATIONAL dialogue where many Thais are hearing the other side's case for the very first time. It's important for then to judge the transparency of the proceedings together with the intentions and good faith of the participants. All IMHO of course.

Agreed ---- backroom deals is the OLD way of doing things. This is right out in the open. Sadly Dr Weng still thought he could get away with lies.

[neverdie]

When Newin was part of Thaksin's coalition, he wasn't banned from politics. Funny however that Newin's party can form a coalition with Abhisit after he was banned from politics, though. You need to get your facts straight before attempting to be smart.

Logic really isn't your strong suite, is it.

Newin is a villain - he was a villain when he was in bed with Thaksin, and he is still a villain now. Bit similar to Chalerm and Yongyuth actually (remind me - where are they now?)

If you didn't complain then, please don't bother now.

Thaksin's party was still able to form a coalition after some of their MPs were banned - the majority were not, and simply moved to a new party ie exactly the same as Newin's block of MPs have done now.

Jack,

Save your breath.....the guy is incapable of seeing anything unless he is wearing his red tinted shades. The guy is delusional.

[johndpoole]

Thanks. Then I am really confused with anyone siding with the Reds at this point. I am all for protests and demanding things such as finding ways to increasing jobs in the rural parts of the country or more affordable and free social services but demanding disbanding government and calling for elections immediately is insane.

If asking for the house to be dissolved and new elections called is insane, how would you describe a legitimately elected government overthrown by an army coup. What would that be called? Democracy?

No, but that has already happened and clearly Thaksin was corrupt and insanely abusing power to the point police were allowed to commit thousands of summery executions of citizens. Something had to be done and I don't believe the right things were done but it is what it is and we are here now with elections scheduled to take place on schedule next year. I don't hear one word coming from the Reds that indicate the current government is doing anything to harm the people beyond what transpired to get them into power or how having some ad-hoc vote and complete shake up the government right now would do anybody any good rather than doing it on schedule.

If voting takes place on schedule next year then they are only harming all of Thailand to demand they take place now. Right or Wrong this is fact.

[anotherpeter]

You really don't get it. Just stop following my posts around like a puppy dog, okay?

But it's so easy to show with a couple of facts that your posts are incorrect.

[jdinasia]

Thanks. Then I am really confused with anyone siding with the Reds at this point. I am all for protests and demanding things such as finding ways to increasing jobs in the rural parts of the country or more affordable and free social services but demanding disbanding government and calling for elections immediately is insane.

If asking for the house to be dissolved and new elections called is insane, how would you describe a legitimately elected government overthrown by an army coup. What would that be called? Democracy?

I would point out that there wasn't an elected government in place when the 2006 coup happened (you should get your facts right before being smart! ) What was in place in 2006 was a caretaker government that had been in office longer than was allowed by the constitution.

You're about 66 years old, am I assuming correctly? That's if you were 16 years old when twisting was invented 50 years ago.

Nope I am 45 and your lie that there was an "elected" government in place when the coup happened is just that ... a lie.

[lannarebirth]

And how the heck is anything going to get agreed upon if they televise these discussions??????????????

This isn't a poker game where deceit is a virtue and one keeps their cards well hidden. It is a NATIONAL dialogue where many Thais are hearing the other side's case for the very first time. It's important for then to judge the transparency of the proceedings together with the intentions and good faith of the participants. All IMHO of course.

Agreed ---- backroom deals is the OLD way of doing things. This is right out in the open. Sadly Dr Weng still thought he could get away with lies.

Also, if these public debates/discussion/negotiations continue, that still doesn't preclude discussions going on elsewhere.

[rainman]

Nope I am 45 and your lie that there was an "elected" government in place when the coup happened is just that ... a lie.

45 years and still following others, how about some independence?

[Insight]

I thought Abhisit and Veera both did that well today. The other speakers were less memorable

Interestingly enough after watching a fair bit of it with my wife, she said she was very proud of the PM and was confused how any educated person could not see and hear that he really is looking out for ALL of Thailand or attempting to. Of course she also mentioned that ANY Politician in Thailand has to be corrupt to get elected haha... not cynical my wife that's for sure... but I digress. She said in her opinion that dissolving the house now would just make things worse and possibly lead to an actual civil war as there is a HUGE (much much bigger than the REDS) silent (at this point) majority that have just about had it with all of this. How true or not that is remains to be seen but that was her take on it.

I found the PM to be well spoken and he made many good points, I also enjoyed listening to Veera speak. I admit I did not agree with his point of view for the most part but he at least came across as educated and also looking for a way out of this were all can appear to have won...

I guess the beat goes on.

Not sure if it can be considered an indicator of popularity, but Abhisit's Facebook page has been buzzing with people posting praise for the past few hours.

[rainman]

And how the heck is anything going to get agreed upon if they televise these discussions??????????????

This isn't a poker game where deceit is a virtue and one keeps their cards well hidden. It is a NATIONAL dialogue where many Thais are hearing the other side's case for the very first time. It's important for then to judge the transparency of the proceedings together with the intentions and good faith of the participants. All IMHO of course.

Agreed ---- backroom deals is the OLD way of doing things. This is right out in the open. Sadly Dr Weng still thought he could get away with lies.

Also, if these public debates/discussion/negotiations continue, that still doesn't preclude discussions going on elsewhere.

It's clearly not going to end in a house dissolution, so why even hold the talks? Abhisit isn't going to "lose face" on live national television.

[george]

This topic continues here:

Thailand's political landmark talks end without resolution:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-P...ks-t351224.html