Thai Peace Talks End Without Resolution

[SurinLA]

Sitting still is not their style.

Jatuporn bounces about like a mental ricochet,

so who knows what his thought choochoo will lead him too.

Given too much time to think how badly they have played it,

they likely will think more pressure is good,.

Jatu-porn took too much of methamphatamine. He cannot stay still.

Taksin realizes that he has wasted too much of the money for 2 weeks without any result. They want the house dissolution and new election soonner because the red supporters really need money to buy ferterlize for the rice season during June-AUG. Rural people mentality =>More often of elections = more money (from selling votes); That's what happened to my parents many years ago.

[Publicus]

"

Reds are disciplined. Yellows are mad and bloodlust," Weng said.

What a lovely quote from the lucid Dr. Weng,

after the whole world watched their blood bath stunt last week.

He gives off the visuals of a thought full Chinese man, till he opens his mouth...

Just talked with a woman in Boston, she watched that with amazement and disgust on TV.

I tried to call on some business, but before that could be addressed,

I had to explain in detail what all the blood was about...

and why there was this fat, wild eyed, shaved head,

guy screaming incomprehensibly in a red shirt.

Jutuporn for sure, made it across the pond...

but the imagery and message was really badly received...

Now I didn't preface this with anything besides "Hello. How are you?.

It just all came pouring out after;

What is going on over there???

As to Abhisit's performance; another fine job after a tiring trip.

No doubt most Thais see all 6 parties in a different light than before.

As said above Abhisits stock is rising, even if there is a election next winter.

The more grenades go off, the lower the Reds stock will sink...

Wait on Songkran... an anniversary that most Thais will

NOT associate favorably with the Red Shirts.

Points out to some extent a difference between the Reds' sympathetic BBC, and CNN which focuses on the Old World hokus pokus, presto poof superstitions cutoms and absurdly irrational traditions. Dance around, shake a rattle, draw some blood and declare Thaksin the perpetual savior in a hemoglobin bonding ritual.

Get real Thailand and your decrepit culture, society and civilization. The fine people of the country deserve better than a Thaksin and his astrology, superstitions and opensaysame. Abhisit is quite the different mind and leader. Get with it.

[ozzieman05]

My Thai wife wants to know

Why is our PM talking to these 3

Can we see a televised debate with Thaskin against the PM

and this to be shown all over Thailand

If the protesters feel Thaskin is their leader and their God

This is what they will want also

Time to hit the nail on the head.

Can we have a Poll on this on this web site please

Who wants to see a Thaskin Abhisit debate on live TV

Edited March 29, 2010 by ozzieman05

[lannarebirth]

My Thai wife wants to know

Why is our PM talking to these 3

Can we see a televised debate with Thaskin against the PM

and this to be shown all over Thailand

If the protesters feel Thaskin is their leader and their God

This is what they will want also

Time to hit the nail on the head.

Can we have a Poll on this on this web site please

Who wants to see a Thaskin MPM debate on live TV

I for one would not like to see that. I wouldn't mind seeing several more installments of Thaksin debating with the courts however.

[Publicus]

If I could figure out how to start a goddamn poll at TV on the matter of whether Abhisit and Thaksin should debate live face to face on a global remote connection for all to see, I'd fukching do it. After an hour of trying, I give up.

Jingthing?

Edited March 29, 2010 by Publicus

[roamer]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

[TheOldWolf]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

Not from the hardcore red and Thaksin lovers, but i think maybe some start to think about what this is all about and get some doubt in their mind.

[TheOldWolf]

sorry, double post

Edited March 29, 2010 by TheOldWolf

[lookpapa]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

[gregb]

If I could figure out how to start a goddamn poll at TV on the matter of whether Abhisit and Thaksin should debate live face to face on a global remote connection for all to see, I'd fukching do it. After an hour of trying, I give up.

Jingthing?

Absolutely. But I say make it more interesting.

Between Abhisit and Thaksin, would you rather see a one on one

A ) Debate

B ) Thai Boxing Match

C ) Pistols at Dawn

Edited March 29, 2010 by gregb

[yoshiwara]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

What a load of nonsense.

First of all for saying that an elitist society is coming to an end.

It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between 'elitist' ( a meaningless term), 'haves and have nots' (another meaningless term which avoids a distinguishing of classes) and the 'poorest' (a poor attempt to presumably separate the peasantry from other classes).

You dare to use the term 'ruling class', but run away from identifying the working class.

In short, you throw around various wishy-washy definitions of class war like a drunken man but in reality you have not got a clue.

The reds distinct from Thaksin? So that's your game.

As Thaksin said in his recent message to the troops 'Its not about me, its about Thailand'.

Nobody believes him and nobody believes you.

[khunjamespittman]

The red-dressed movement says the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power on the back of a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

oh no ... a parlimentary vote!! How dare they use democracy to get into power!!

Since you must have forgotten, please let me remind you. Usually in legitimate parlimentary governments when a government is found to to have "no confidence" an election by the people must be held in a predetermined time, Not a "parlimentary vote".

The court declared the government in no confidence and removed it therfore a new election was required. It did not happen!

It is as simple as that. This appears to be the change that the government would like to make to the constitution before having an elections. If this is allowed to happen, after an election the court appointed by the incumbent government would simply declare no confidence in a newly elected government (by the will of the people's vote) and will hold a parlimentary vote to re-install the incumbent government effectively making it a dictatorship.

Think, Think. Think!.

[SurinLA]

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest.

Would you rather have a leader who knows the substances an intelligent instead of a selfish cheater who only know how to corrupt the country?

The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

It is a little insulting to the poor people like me or my family. Do you know that the government allow a free education through Mo 3 ( 9th grade)? Should we all take advantage of it? In my village, 60% of the kids skip the schools at Mo 2 ( 8th grade). MO 3. is not a low education anymore. My parents finished PO 4. (4th grade) and they are still intelligent enough to understand who is really a good leader because they are well informed. Please stop attacking the so call "ELITE" people. It is very unfare and I do not believe they purposely doing anything to destroy or hurt fellow Thais.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing.

Are you blaming the "HAVES" for the "HAVENOTS"? What is your sugession to close the gap? Have a new Communist government so everyone will be distributed equally? I saw you admitted that Taksin is financing the red movement. Then all of this time, they are doing it for him. Why? because the RED leaders are those who carry Taksin messages and orders and brainwash the supporters with all the lies and distortion through REDSHIRT TV channel and Community radio stations.

It's time for red protesters to go home.

[lookpapa]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

What a load of nonsense.

First of all for saying that an elitist society is coming to an end.

It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between 'elitist' ( a meaningless term), 'haves and have nots' (another meaningless term which avoids a distinguishing of classes) and the 'poorest' (a poor attempt to presumably separate the peasantry from other classes).

You dare to use the term 'ruling class', but run away from identifying the working class.

In short, you throw around various wishy-washy definitions of class war like a drunken man but in reality you have not got a clue.

The reds distinct from Thaksin? So that's your game.

As Thaksin said in his recent message to the troops 'Its not about me, its about Thailand'.

Nobody believes him and nobody believes you.

No, it's not "my game". That's the game the reds are playing now in the "debate". It's not a bad game plan using it against Abhisit who'd like to distance himself from the military who are pulling his strings. The working class , especially in terms of Thailand don't need to be clarified, it's self explanatory. The people who've been exploited by the Elite.(as distinct from "elitist")

There's no need for a revolution if the ruling classes would give a bit to the poorest and not be so greedy. The evidence is so apparent, if you live in Bangkok you can't avoid seeing it.

Look at them gallovanting in the Emporium and Paragon for instance then contrast that of the rural folks. Look at the private school pupils and contrast that to the village schools .

No wonder that a debate like that on TV is a no contest.

Why is this government scared of going to an election? Why would'nt they be, they know they're likely to lose. There's nothing unusual about govenments going to the polls early. In fact in many countries the government engineers that to have an election at their choosing when it advantages them. Clearly Abhisit fears an election now. If he thought he could win he'd grab at it. After all he's a politician. Everyone knows that in particular in Thailand being elected to run the place is a way to riches. The only PM in the last few decades who was not like that is Anand.

Thai society is going through turmoil and it's long overdue. Thaksin was a bit different from the norm as he tried to do something for the rural poor when nobody else would. Certainly he did it because they were his constituents, ie. they voted him in and he benefited. So what else is new? Why don't the Democrats make the same people their constituents? The answer is obvious, the status quo might be changed somewhat and some people who are priviliged wouldn't like it.

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

[lookpapa]

Dear SurinLA

It's the PAD who insulted your people when they wanted to disenfranchise your people saying that you can't be trusted to vote as you're not educated enough. And that's the way they want to keep it.

[SurinLA]

"lookpapa"

There's no need for a revolution if the ruling classes would give a bit to the poorest and not be so greedy. The evidence is so apparent, if you live in Bangkok you can't avoid seeing it.

Look at them gallovanting in the Emporium and Paragon for instance then contrast that of the rural folks. Look at the private school pupils and contrast that to the village schools .

Dear LookPaPa,

I don't speak for yellow or REd or any colors, but for Thailand that needs peace and happiness and as a good Thai citizen.

I grew up poor, just like many ESAN people. I used to help my mother carrying bananas and coconuts to exchange for rice when we don't have anything to eat. When I saw rich people, I only asked myself what could I do to have a good living. My parents told me not to be jealous of others for what they have and what we don't have. Now I can go shopping on Rodeo Drive Beverly Hills, and I have never heard people from rural KANSAS told me to share my wealth to them after I pay taxes to the government. People who earn their living from working hard should be admired. Why are you so resentful to the riches and blaming them again and again?

Why is this government scared of going to an election? Why would'nt they be, they know they're likely to lose. There's nothing unusual about govenments going to the polls early. In fact in many countries the government engineers that to have an election at their choosing when it advantages them. Clearly Abhisit fears an election now. If he thought he could win he'd grab at it. After all he's a politician. Everyone knows that in particular in Thailand being elected to run the place is a way to riches. The only PM in the last few decades who was not like that is Anand.

Is this the case why the THAI FOR THAI and REDs want the house dissolution so bad? Because they know they will win and will be able to change the constitution to allow Taksin back and to change Thailand to "People Republic of Thailand" and devide the privinces into differrent STATES, just like Dr. Weng want it to be. It will fall into what Taksin wanted; "To make hime a President".

Every election costs money. Who you suggest pay for it? In this economy, don't you think it is better to spend money on education and health services, infustructures and..etc rather than call a new election with million of bahts to plan for the election? Rural Esan or Northern people do not vote for the candidates who will work to bring the country to the future and make them better. They only vote for who give them the most money today.

Why are the REDS doing all the protest now when the country is improving to a better direction and people ( from the village) are getting work in Bangkok? Why don't they learn the lesson from last year violence protest when they didn't success what they want? Why don't they bring their concerns to their MP who, mostly, are THAI FOR THAI and work for TAKSIN? Why don't the THAI FOR THAI MPs bring the growing problems they have into the house and discuss about its?

The whole thing sounds so fishy. Thai For Thai representatives are spoiled. They are used to being the government side and now the opposition side, and they don't know how to perform their duties. I say that because many of them went on the REDSHRIT stage giving speeches to protesters.

I don't support Taksin policies. Since the "Help the Poor" programs came into my village, 95% of the families has at least 20,000 baths in debt and continue. People became more materialistic, selfish and greedy. The Taksin system destroyed our good and healthy community.

[Thai at Heart]

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

The problem is that 10% of the population have all the eggs and they aren't going to let anyone have any to make an omelette.

[gregb]

Dear SurinLA

It's the PAD who insulted your people when they wanted to disenfranchise your people saying that you can't be trusted to vote as you're not educated enough. And that's the way they want to keep it.

The PAD correctly recognised that there was a demagogue controlling the people of Issan. Of course, all educated people since the ancient Athenian Greeks have understood that democracy can not function in the presence of a demagogue. There are only 2 options in this case.

Remove Thaksin or remove democracy. Nobody advocates disenfranchising anyone, and the people will be trusted once the influence of the demagogue is removed.

Unfortunately, the demagogue refuses to go away into a small corner of the world and live out his life in isolation. He has been given every option to live peacefully away from Thailand, but he insists on continuing his noxious infection of the country. If you would like all Thais to be reconciled lookpapa, the answer is simple. You need only convince the Issan people to denounce the demagogue.

Then Thailand can get back on track. Keep the demagogue, and the problems continue.

Democracy or civil war is entirely in the hands of the red shirts. It is they who are destroying democracy by succumbing to the temptations of evil. The PAD are simply trying to help.

Sorry lookpapa. That post was way off the deep end and you need a counter balance to your disinformation.

[ozzieman05]

Dear SurinLA

It's the PAD who insulted your people when they wanted to disenfranchise your people saying that you can't be trusted to vote as you're not educated enough. And that's the way they want to keep it.

Oh I see

and the free schools now, are proof that they do not want the poorer Thais educated

My wife is one of these poorer Thai's and has family members in Udon, They all now listen to her as she has been through University, and friends of the family always ask her for help to understand when she visits the home 2 times a year for a month at a time.

When I first met her she was a disiciple of Thaskin

Now she thinks and looks and listens

She is part of a growing Issan that can now see the truth.

The past is the past, only the future is important she says to me

Free schools, Free hospitals, not a bad start for a village that has had nothing for so long

[landofthefree]

Conspicuous silence from the red cheerleading squad. A good move by Abhisit, who continues to impress.

Can't be bothered. Next thread, please.

Likewise, you cannot argue with people who are so entrenched with their own rhetoric at least we will have the last laugh when Abhisit gets booted out either by the Military or the electorate which will happen within the next year at the latest!

[yoshiwara]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

What a load of nonsense.

First of all for saying that an elitist society is coming to an end.

It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between 'elitist' ( a meaningless term), 'haves and have nots' (another meaningless term which avoids a distinguishing of classes) and the 'poorest' (a poor attempt to presumably separate the peasantry from other classes).

You dare to use the term 'ruling class', but run away from identifying the working class.

In short, you throw around various wishy-washy definitions of class war like a drunken man but in reality you have not got a clue.

The reds distinct from Thaksin? So that's your game.

As Thaksin said in his recent message to the troops 'Its not about me, its about Thailand'.

Nobody believes him and nobody believes you.

No, it's not "my game". That's the game the reds are playing now in the "debate". It's not a bad game plan using it against Abhisit who'd like to distance himself from the military who are pulling his strings. The working class , especially in terms of Thailand don't need to be clarified, it's self explanatory. The people who've been exploited by the Elite.(as distinct from "elitist")

There's no need for a revolution if the ruling classes would give a bit to the poorest and not be so greedy. The evidence is so apparent, if you live in Bangkok you can't avoid seeing it.

Look at them gallovanting in the Emporium and Paragon for instance then contrast that of the rural folks. Look at the private school pupils and contrast that to the village schools .

No wonder that a debate like that on TV is a no contest.

Why is this government scared of going to an election? Why would'nt they be, they know they're likely to lose. There's nothing unusual about govenments going to the polls early. In fact in many countries the government engineers that to have an election at their choosing when it advantages them. Clearly Abhisit fears an election now. If he thought he could win he'd grab at it. After all he's a politician. Everyone knows that in particular in Thailand being elected to run the place is a way to riches. The only PM in the last few decades who was not like that is Anand.

Thai society is going through turmoil and it's long overdue. Thaksin was a bit different from the norm as he tried to do something for the rural poor when nobody else would. Certainly he did it because they were his constituents, ie. they voted him in and he benefited. So what else is new? Why don't the Democrats make the same people their constituents? The answer is obvious, the status quo might be changed somewhat and some people who are priviliged wouldn't like it.

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

Except that you fail to identify what sort of revolution you are advocating.

A bourgeois revolution? A proletarian revolution?

You don't know and you don't understand beyond probably wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt.

Or maybe you really do think there can be a revolution of the peasantry led by petty-bourgeois elements a la Cuba.

One thing is clear. Revolutions are not calibrated by greed, but by objective class forces none of which you comprehend.

Not that you are completely naive about the situation.

Re Thaksin in your meally-mouthed reference to 'ie. they voted him in and he benefited.' ie not only do you here explicitly support corruption, you support Thaksin's greed as well.

So much for a revolutionary position.

Some dumb Thaksin apologists put it out that they are supporting the lower classes, well some of them anyway.

However, the apologists are not opposed to the status quo (re class power) whatsoever

What they, in practice, are supporting, is a personalised split in the ruling class represented by Thaksin.

Any protestations to the contrary should be summarily dismissed for the dissembling it is.

[Thai at Heart]

Dear SurinLA

It's the PAD who insulted your people when they wanted to disenfranchise your people saying that you can't be trusted to vote as you're not educated enough. And that's the way they want to keep it.

Oh I see

and the free schools now, are proof that they do not want the poorer Thais educated

My wife is one of these poorer Thai's and has family members in Udon, They all now listen to her as she has been through University, and friends of the family always ask her for help to understand when she visits the home 2 times a year for a month at a time.

When I first met her she was a disiciple of Thaskin

Now she thinks and looks and listens

She is part of a growing Issan that can now see the truth.

The past is the past, only the future is important she says to me

Free schools, Free hospitals, not a bad start for a village that has had nothing for so long

The truth is that finally the governments of Thailand will have to spend a lot more time conjuring up policies that help the rural areas. Abhisit has caught on quickly, but can he implement what he wants, and can he get the country to stump up the cash?

All good in my opinion.

Thaksin has burnt his bridges and I can't see him coming back. His legacy will be losing his cash, but moving the focus of Thai politics. In every cloud there is a silver lining.

[scorecard]

I've read this thread and the one on the earlier talks. There is clearly a lot of admiration for the way the PM has handled himself. No more than I would expect from someone whose debating skills were honed on one of the planets more famous stages rather than where they took place today, also against far more equal intellects than he faced today.

One Question.

Do you think he won over any voters in Nakorn Nowhere ?

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

What a load of nonsense.

First of all for saying that an elitist society is coming to an end.

It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between 'elitist' ( a meaningless term), 'haves and have nots' (another meaningless term which avoids a distinguishing of classes) and the 'poorest' (a poor attempt to presumably separate the peasantry from other classes).

You dare to use the term 'ruling class', but run away from identifying the working class.

In short, you throw around various wishy-washy definitions of class war like a drunken man but in reality you have not got a clue.

The reds distinct from Thaksin? So that's your game.

As Thaksin said in his recent message to the troops 'Its not about me, its about Thailand'.

Nobody believes him and nobody believes you.

No, it's not "my game". That's the game the reds are playing now in the "debate". It's not a bad game plan using it against Abhisit who'd like to distance himself from the military who are pulling his strings. The working class , especially in terms of Thailand don't need to be clarified, it's self explanatory. The people who've been exploited by the Elite.(as distinct from "elitist")

There's no need for a revolution if the ruling classes would give a bit to the poorest and not be so greedy. The evidence is so apparent, if you live in Bangkok you can't avoid seeing it.

Look at them gallovanting in the Emporium and Paragon for instance then contrast that of the rural folks. Look at the private school pupils and contrast that to the village schools .

No wonder that a debate like that on TV is a no contest.

Why is this government scared of going to an election? Why would'nt they be, they know they're likely to lose. There's nothing unusual about govenments going to the polls early. In fact in many countries the government engineers that to have an election at their choosing when it advantages them. Clearly Abhisit fears an election now. If he thought he could win he'd grab at it. After all he's a politician. Everyone knows that in particular in Thailand being elected to run the place is a way to riches. The only PM in the last few decades who was not like that is Anand.

Thai society is going through turmoil and it's long overdue. Thaksin was a bit different from the norm as he tried to do something for the rural poor when nobody else would. Certainly he did it because they were his constituents, ie. they voted him in and he benefited. So what else is new? Why don't the Democrats make the same people their constituents? The answer is obvious, the status quo might be changed somewhat and some people who are priviliged wouldn't like it.

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

You seem to be forgetting another 'group' in this whole picture - the upcountry villagers who have wormed (bought) their way into parliament, and are now very very rich. Just check around many villages and you will see these families, they live in very large luxurious houses, have numerous very expensive cars in their compound, etc. These people should also be investigated for unusual wealth. And often they employ 2 or 3 locl villagers as servants and threat them like sh it.

Many of these people are also the thaksin on the ground (paid) troops / lackies. They ensure there is a handout just at the right time, so that the uninformed (I didn't say stupid) poor villagers who live at survivor level keep supporting thaksin.

If there was an election tomorrow then thaksin and his leeches and thugs would go all out to buy massive numbers of votes and ensure they win enough seats to totally control parliamnet and totally control what is enacted.

Next, we would see, very quickly, laws enacted to whitewash the most corrupt abuser in Thai history, return the constitution to a scenario whereby vote buying is easy and unchecked, etc, and a quick return to a dictator picture with thaksin gaining more and more absolute control, sounds like a repeat of Burma.

And we would see people like arisman, veera, weng, jatuporn, sa daeng, chalerm, sudarat etc as ministers of state - frightening and rolling Thailand back 40 years.

Abhisit is very wise to make a compromise but ensure it works in his favor. There are many signs that Thailand is going forward under Abhisit and Korn, but they need a bit moere time to cement their gains, their policies into place and take Thailand inot a new era - a thailand which is better for all Thais and get's a lot more people inot a picture where their quality of life is much better, there is a better spread of wealth, all Thais have better education and better/more opportunities in life.

[Cayenne]

Here we go again about this whole class war. FYI there is a growth of the middle class in the past couple of decades and didn't Thaksin himself claim to have come from a poor background? Looks like he did pretty well for himself too, with all those fancy ammart decorations (look at his entry in wikipedia).

Take a look at the UDD Thailand facebook page. They are in disagreement among themselves on what to do next and what their leaders have achieved. This is what happens when you have Thaksin pulling the strings of a democracy movement. Time to move on

[yoshiwara]

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

The problem is that 10% of the population have all the eggs and they aren't going to let anyone have any to make an omelette.

Not only do you not understand how capitalist society works, your hero is Thaksin who is an uber-capitalist.

So, answer this question:

Are you in favour of a Bolshevik revolution led by a revolutionary communist party?

If you aren't then don't pretend that you do.

[ozzieman05]

Conspicuous silence from the red cheerleading squad. A good move by Abhisit, who continues to impress.

Can't be bothered. Next thread, please.

Likewise, you cannot argue with people who are so entrenched with their own rhetoric at least we will have the last laugh when Abhisit gets booted out either by the Military or the electorate which will happen within the next year at the latest!

Maybe you would think different if you listen to my Thai wife explain to family in Issan what it was all about

Now they say Abhisit not loose face, so must be good man, wife explain to them Abhisit give them all money much, in better living standards so can not waste, Thaskin give little cash gone to quick

She say Abhisit face get stronger every day

Thaskins greatest threat is not Abhisit, but Village Thai daughters who get education

Edited March 30, 2010 by ozzieman05

[Thai at Heart]

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

The problem is that 10% of the population have all the eggs and they aren't going to let anyone have any to make an omelette.

Not only do you not understand how capitalist society works, your hero is Thaksin who is an uber-capitalist.

So, answer this question:

Are you in favour of a Bolshevik revolution led by a revolutionary communist party?

If you aren't then don't pretend that you do.

I am not in favour of any such thing.

Having spent a large amount of my life on agricultural development in the region, any policies that are centred on helping the lot of the farmer are very welcome in my opinion. I am not in favour of a communist revolution in any way. Neither am I favour of what for example is going on in China today with 800mn rural poor trying to hang on whilst the cities run away into the distance. Curiously, the commie party in China realise that this will be the make or break reason as to whether they can hang onto power and so they are constantly trying to find ways to make sure that something goes back to the countryside. And if you think the Communist party in China are really communist, they are as pro business and pro capitalist than most right wing western political parties.

It is more the idea of seeing a country as a whole that can grow, than a collection of individuals.

If you think it isn't a good idea to try to spread some of the wealth whilst making it worth an entrepreneur to get moving, you see the world differently from me. If you think that all of the wealth in Thailand was created by enormous entrepreneurial get up and go, you are deluding yourself too. Inequality is inevitable in life, however, for the good of any society, it is a string that has a finite strength and distance. The distance between the richest and the poorest in any country has been proven to have a limit.

What politicians in Thailand and all countries need to do is to stop the string from snapping because the consequences can be societally catastrophic.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[brahmburgers]

Every 'movement' (except bowel....) has to have a bad guy. For the Reds, the 'bad guy' started out as Prem. That didn't go over well, because Prem was close to the monarchy. Then the bad guys were the military, but the Red footsoldiers couldn't hate the military because A. the military didn't harm them when provoked, last year, and B. the military are their own brothers, fathers, sons, daughters and friends.

So the Reds (read; Thaksin) kept looking for their poster 'bad guy'. Now that role is on Abhisit - because he's the one person who can most readily pave the road to T returning to power. Unfortunately, Abhisit isn't a bad guy, no matter how much mud a group of people sling at him. Indeed, any regular Red folks who are observing with a modicum of objectivity, are probably coming around to realizing Abhisit is quite alright.

Who will Thaksin and the Red leaders pick next for their 'bad guy' to rail against?

So where we go from here? Will the reds go home? Go riot? Sit still until Tuesday?

One thing's for sure (from the Red leaders): There will be more threats, with little substance to back them up.

Even during the apex of their latest demonstration, they called off one full day of rallying (last weekend). Was it for lack of people, or for lack of direction/motivation, or.....? ....maybe the money transfers from Dubai didn't show up as quickly as expected.

[bacchanal]

The red-dressed movement says the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power on the back of a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

oh no ... a parlimentary vote!! How dare they use democracy to get into power!!

The court declared the government in no confidence

Think, Think. Think!.

I wish you would think and relay accurate information.

The court didn't declare the government "in no confidence"

If you have a link to credible news source that uses that terminology, please post it, because that's not something courts do here.

[yoshiwara]

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

The problem is that 10% of the population have all the eggs and they aren't going to let anyone have any to make an omelette.

Not only do you not understand how capitalist society works, your hero is Thaksin who is an uber-capitalist.

So, answer this question:

Are you in favour of a Bolshevik revolution led by a revolutionary communist party?

If you aren't then don't pretend that you do.

I am not in favour of any such thing.

Having spent a large amount of my life on agricultural development in the region, any policies that are centred on helping the lot of the farmer are very welcome in my opinion. I am not in favour of a communist revolution in any way. Neither am I favour of what for example is going on in China today with 800mn rural poor trying to hang on whilst the cities run away into the distance. Curiously, the commie party in China realise that this will be the make or break reason as to whether they can hang onto power and so they are constantly trying to find ways to make sure that something goes back to the countryside. And if you think the Communist party in China are really communist, they are as pro business and pro capitalist than most right wing western political parties.

It is more the idea of seeing a country as a whole that can grow, than a collection of individuals.

If you think it isn't a good idea to try to spread some of the wealth whilst making it worth an entrepreneur to get moving, you see the world differently from me. If you think that all of the wealth in Thailand was created by enormous entrepreneurial get up and go, you are deluding yourself too. Inequality is inevitable in life, however, for the good of any society, it is a string that has a finite strength and distance. The distance between the richest and the poorest in any country has been proven to have a limit.

What politicians in Thailand and all countries need to do is to stop the string from snapping because the consequences can be societally catastrophic.

Good, I can support that and most forum members would do so as well.

What I (and others) will not support is a nominal social movement that uses the language of class war (actually a bastardised version), but is in practice thoroughly subordinated to the interests of Thaksin.

The red movement is Thaksin's vehicle.

And those who give Thaksin cover are his fellow travellers.