It's Ironic

[bannork]

Farangs come to Thailand to sunbathe yet Thais want to be white, some farangs like to live in a wooden traditional Thai house in the fields yet the Thais in those houses want to live in a brand new house in a dull suburb on the outskirts of Bangkok. Like เกรงใจ I suspect there is no one adjective to describe ironic, please prove me wrong someone.

bannork

[samran]

Situations you describe I don't think can be called Ironic. Its a bit like Alanis Morissette song "Ironic"....that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all." A bit like this question - no offense

What you describe are different priorities.

From the dictionary: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Sarcasm is said to be a form of irony.

There is probably a word for it in Thai. I have tried to look it up before, but my Thai isn't perfect and it is a hard one to try and get, as Thai's (a bit like Americans) don't seem to do irony/sarcasm.

[suegha]

I found this on thai2english.com, hope it helps

แดก dàek, meaning; ridicule ; be sarcastic ; be ironic ; speak sarcastically

I am, however, like samran, I have not come across irony or sarcasim in Thailand. May I don't know Thailand well enough yet...

[snowleopard]

Situations you describe I don't think can be called Ironic. Its a bit like Alanis Morissette song "Ironic"....that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all."  A bit like this question - no offense

What you describe are different priorities.

From the dictionary: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Sarcasm is said to be a form of irony.

There is probably a word for it in Thai. I have tried to look it up before, but my Thai isn't perfect and it is a hard one to try and get, as Thai's (a bit like Americans) don't seem to do irony/sarcasm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bannork Posted Yesterday, 2005-05-27 22:13:29

Like เกรงใจ I suspect there is no one adjective to describe ironic, please prove me wrong someone.

bannork

Maybe you could use ขัดแย้ง 'kat yaeng' in a sentence like this...

เป็นการขัดแย้งกับความจริงที่ว่า..."bpen gaan kat yaeng kap kwaam jing tee waa..."

Snowleopard

[snowleopard]

Situations you describe I don't think can be called Ironic. Its a bit like Alanis Morissette song "Ironic"....that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all."  A bit like this question - no offense

What you describe are different priorities.

From the dictionary: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Sarcasm is said to be a form of irony.

There is probably a word for it in Thai. I have tried to look it up before, but my Thai isn't perfect and it is a hard one to try and get, as Thai's (a bit like Americans) don't seem to do irony/sarcasm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply 'coincidental' or 'improbable', in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of respondents in a survey reject the use of ironically in this sentence...

"In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York."

Some noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us.

Snowleopard

[siamesekitty]

I've thought about this word before, and just couldn't find the proper translation for it either. However, I woule suggest something like "น่าประหลาดที่ว่า....", meaning "It's weird that..."

Too sleepy to discuss the other suggestions. Can I come back to this after I've had a good night's sleep?

[snowleopard]

I've thought about this word before, and just couldn't find the proper translation for it either. However, I woule suggest something like "น่าประหลาดที่ว่า....", meaning "It's weird that..."

Too sleepy to discuss the other suggestions. Can I come back to this after I've had a good night's sleep?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too sleepy to discuss the other suggestions. Can I come back to this after I've had a good night's sleep?

Of course Kitty!Get yourself a cat nap.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

[sabaijai]

Situations you describe I don't think can be called Ironic. Its a bit like Alanis Morissette song "Ironic"....that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all."  A bit like this question - no offense

What you describe are different priorities.

From the dictionary: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Sarcasm is said to be a form of irony.

There is probably a word for it in Thai. I have tried to look it up before, but my Thai isn't perfect and it is a hard one to try and get, as Thai's (a bit like Americans) don't seem to do irony/sarcasm.

The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply 'coincidental' or 'improbable', in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of respondents in a survey reject the use of ironically in this sentence...

"In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York."

Some noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us.

Snowleopard

Snow you forgot to cite the source of your words (your English was just a little too perfect ):

American Heritage Dictionary

[sabaijai]

Farangs come to Thailand to sunbathe yet Thais want to be white, some farangs like to live in a wooden traditional Thai house in the fields yet the Thais in those houses want to live in a brand new house in a dull suburb on the outskirts of Bangkok. Like เกรงใจ I suspect there is no one adjective to describe ironic, please prove me wrong someone.

bannork

As far as I can tell, there is no direct translation for 'irony' in Thai. English-Thai dictionaries tend to define it along the lines of 'an utterance making use of words with opposite meanings' or something like that, which doesn't quite get at it. Come to think of it, even the English-English definitions can be difficult to comprehend, yet all English speakers understand the concept by example.

Thais do understand irony, at least I've seen it crop up in Thai comedy acts, esp standup by Note Udom.

I think Thais see the humour in irony even if they don't have a word for it. Just as expats who have lived awhile in Thailand know what เกรงใจ means even if we can't give a one or two-word English definition for it.

I think the distinction betwen Brits and Americans regarding irony is overplayed, by the way. It's clear to me that Americans do understand irony, even if they don't find it as amusing as Brits do, and therefore employ it less frequently. Just as there are devices in American humour that Brits don't do, or don't appreciate. Sarcasm and irony are tightly connected, and I think Americans perceive sarcasm in a more negative light than Brits do. Perhaps irony is more ingrained in British humour because historically it was a way to subtly undermine or deflate class conflict (but I'm way off topic here and out of my depth so pay no attention ... )

[drummer]

Try to ask a simple question witha group of grammar-heads, and see what you get, eh bannork?

it is neither coincidental nor improbable that here in Thailand white people want to be dark and dark people want to be light.... Not exactly ironic, I guess. That would be in tryng to turn yourself light you do something that makes yourself darker. Or, the classic Monkey's Paw story, in trying to makeyourself happy you make yourself miserable.

[snowleopard]

Situations you describe I don't think can be called Ironic. Its a bit like Alanis Morissette song "Ironic"....that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all."  A bit like this question - no offense

What you describe are different priorities.

From the dictionary: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Sarcasm is said to be a form of irony.

There is probably a word for it in Thai. I have tried to look it up before, but my Thai isn't perfect and it is a hard one to try and get, as Thai's (a bit like Americans) don't seem to do irony/sarcasm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply 'coincidental' or 'improbable', in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of respondents in a survey reject the use of ironically in this sentence...

"In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York."

Some noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us.

Snowleopard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snow you forgot to cite the source of your words (your English was just a little too perfect ):

American Heritage Dictionary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(your English was just a little too perfect ):

ironic!

Snow you forgot to cite the source

I had it written down in a note book so the link is to my drawer...http://snowleopardsdrawer.com

On the IT,you could also get it from these sample links and scores of others_ so get on the board and happy surfing board brain.

http://mbostock.blogspot.com/2003/08/words...ically-are.html

http://www.nicedoggie.net/archives/2005/04...in_their_na.php

http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2004/0..._it_ironic.html

[yoot]

Farangs come to Thailand to sunbathe yet Thais want to be white, some farangs like to live in a wooden traditional Thai house in the fields yet the Thais in those houses want to live in a brand new house in a dull suburb on the outskirts of Bangkok. Like เกรงใจ I suspect there is no one adjective to describe ironic, please prove me wrong someone.

bannork

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many Thai words to describe ironic. Each words is used in each situations.

ประชด , แดกดัน (bprà-chót , dàek danas) in the English-English definitions 'expressing the opposite of what you are really think'.

ล้อเลียน , เสียดสี (lór-lian , sìat sĕe) - An ironic event or situation is interesting and sometimes humorous. As in Thai comedy acts, esp standup by Note Udom. ( as Sabaijai mentioned)

For the situation you described, if you say as this to someone in the ironical meaning, the word which can describe it should be กระทบกระเทียบ, เปรียบเปรย

For example, if you say this to your friend in the ironical way because he isn't satisfied the thing he has and wants something else which is unnecessary,

he would reply you as

"อย่ามาพูดกระทบกระเทียบกันเลย จะว่าอะไรก็ว่ามาตรง ๆ เลยดีกว่า "

yàa maa pôot grà-tóp-grà-tîap gan loie jà wâa à-rai gôr wâa maa dtrong-dtrong loie dee gwàa

or

" อย่าทำเป็นพูดเปรียบเปรยไปเลย จะว่าอะไรก็ว่ามาตรง ๆ เลยดีกว่า"

yàa tám bpen pôot bprìap bproie bpai loie jà wâa à-rai gôr wâa maa dtrong-dtrong loie dee gwàa

For the word เกรงใจ I found the meaning in an Thai- English dicitonary which I think it's quite close the expression of Thais when using this word.

เกรงใจ = to be afraid of offending(someone), to be considerate of another's feeling

[bannork]

I've thought about this word before, and just couldn't find the proper translation for it either. However, I woule suggest something like "น่าประหลาดที่ว่า....", meaning "It's weird that..."

Too sleepy to discuss the other suggestions. Can I come back to this after I've had a good night's sleep?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I came to the same conclusion some time ago SK, I didn't mean sarcastic or dry humour as some surmised, rather I meant the situation wasn't as one would initially expect,( although there may be perfectly logical reasons), ie 'do you know they export coal to Newcastle?' or the premise looked dodgy:'It's ironic that the Pope, or Buddhist monks never married, can lecture the world about sex when they've had no sexual experience themselves.'

'Surprising' seems to be the only option.

Yoot, afraid of offending and being considerate are not the same which is why I said เกรงใจ could not be summed up in one word.

[yoot]

I've thought about this word before, and just couldn't find the proper translation for it either. However, I woule suggest something like "น่าประหลาดที่ว่า....", meaning "It's weird that..."

Too sleepy to discuss the other suggestions. Can I come back to this after I've had a good night's sleep?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I came to the same conclusion some time ago SK, I didn't mean sarcastic or dry humour as some surmised, rather I meant the situation wasn't as one would initially expect,( although there may be perfectly logical reasons), ie 'do you know they export coal to Newcastle?' or the premise looked dodgy:'It's ironic that the Pope, or Buddhist monks never married, can lecture the world about sex when they've had no sexual experience themselves.'

'Surprising' seems to be the only option.

Yoot, afraid of offending and being considerate are not the same which is why I said เกรงใจ could not be summed up in one word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want to say something before saying " Farangs come to Thailand to sunbathe yet Thais want to be white, some farangs like to live in a wooden traditional Thai house in the fields yet the Thais in those houses want to live in a brand new house in a dull suburb on the outskirts of Bangkok. " , you can start with " แปลกนะ " or " คนเราก็แปลกนะ"

" คนเราก็แปลกนะ ฝรั่งมาเมืองไทยก็เพื่อต้องการอาบแดด แต่คนไทยกลับต้องการมีผิวสีขาว ฝรั่งบางคนชอบอยู่ในบ้านไม้ทรงไทยในชนบท ขณะที่คนไทยกลับต้องการอยู่บ้านหรูทันสมัยแถบชานเมืองกรุงเทพฯ "

[sabaijai]

I've thought about this word before, and just couldn't find the proper translation for it either. However, I woule suggest something like "น่าประหลาดที่ว่า....", meaning "It's weird that..."

Too sleepy to discuss the other suggestions. Can I come back to this after I've had a good night's sleep?

I came to the same conclusion some time ago SK, I didn't mean sarcastic or dry humour as some surmised, rather I meant the situation wasn't as one would initially expect,( although there may be perfectly logical reasons), ie 'do you know they export coal to Newcastle?' or the premise looked dodgy:'It's ironic that the Pope, or Buddhist monks never married, can lecture the world about sex when they've had no sexual experience themselves.'

'Surprising' seems to be the only option.

Yoot, afraid of offending and being considerate are not the same which is why I said เกรงใจ could not be summed up in one word.

Yes Yoot, I agree, all this Thai vocabulary can be used to refer to ironic statements or ironic situations. But it still appears to me that the Thai language doesn't have a single word or simple phrase that means 'ironic' in the English connotation of the word.

Just as the definition you supplied for เกรงใจ is reasonably accurate and intelligible, but English does not have an equivalent word or expression. For me the closest English equivalent, by the way, is 'deferential' but even that still doesn't quite cover the exact semantic field that the Thai เกรงใจ does.

The Thais, even more so than Americans, for example, don't use a lot of sarcasm and irony in everyday utterances, as these conversational gambits can be perceived as rather impolite, or in Thai a little too กระแดะ, except among close friends or in comedic entertainment.

Maybe it's because in the classic พี่-น้อง structure of Thai social relations, it's cool for the พี่ to be sarcastic or ironic in speech, not so for the น้อง. Of course there are plenty of exceptional cases in everyday life but the fact they're less numerous proves the rule. In fact you might say that the Thai sense of เกรงใจ interferes with their sense of irony. Sort of ironic if you think about it, considering how much the Thais like to laugh! Of course the Thais have plenty of other ways to amuse themselves in everyday conversation.

[Neeranam]

เกรงใจ = to be afraid of offending(someone), to be considerate of another's feeling

I have seen this translation somewhere. I think it is as good as any, but not quite right.

What about "not wanting to put someone out", or "not wanting to bother someone", or "not wanting to be the cause of possible ill-feeling" or "letting it go"?? "Not wanting to appear rude or offensive", "not wanting to be a stick-in-the-mud", Maybe I don't fully understand the concept of เกรงใจ .

[yoot]

Yes Yoot, I agree, all this Thai vocabulary can be used to refer to ironic statements or ironic situations. But it still appears to me that the Thai language doesn't have a single word or simple phrase that means 'ironic' in the English connotation of the word.

The words as แดกดัน,ประชด,ล้อเลียน,เสียดสี,กระทบกระเทียบ,เปรียบเปรย all are the definitions of ' irony' , but in the English sentence as "it's ironic...." for Thai language we can use tons of words represent this phrase.

For example in standup by Note Udom, he talked about a girl who complained him about eating beef which is a big animal as a cruelty but she can eat fish or chicken which are small animals. It's ironic that she complained him, but he didn't use this sentence he just said " สัตว์ใหญ่ " to express his feeling. Everyone who listen to his word understand that it's an irony. correct me if I'm wrong.

As in Bannork's situation, It's ironic...... which in Thai sentence when we want to say the same, we often start with ' แปลกนะ , ตลกนะ ,น่าขำนะ ,ประหลาดมั้ย ,เหลือเชื่อมั้ย ฯลฯ' . The words as 'ตลกนะ ,น่าขำนะ' it doesn't mean funny really in fact it's opposite with the thing we really thought.

So, it's impossible to have a single word or simple phrase which means ' ironic ' as you said.

[snowleopard]

yoot 2005-05-29 20:24:07

The words as แดกดัน,ประชด,ล้อเลียน,เสียดสี,กระทบกระเทียบ,เปรียบเปรย all are the definitions of ' irony' , but in the English sentence as "it's ironic...." for Thai language we can use tons of words represent this phrase

ล้อเลียน 'loh lian' can probably best be translated as mimic; ape; imitate

Synonyms:เลียนแบบ 'lian baep',เอาอย่าง 'aow yaang'

Mimic...

Main Entry:mimic Part of Speech: verb Definition: imitate

Synonyms for mimic: act, ape, burlesque, caricature, copy, copycat, ditto, do, do like, echo, enact, fake, go like, impersonate, look like, make like, make-believe, mime, mirror, mock, pantomime, parody, parrot, perform, personate, play, resemble, ridicule, sham, simulate, take off, travesty

source:Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

Ape...

Main Entry: ape Part of Speech: verb Definition: mimic

Synonyms for ape: affect, caricature, copy, counterfeit, ditto, do, do like, echo, emulate, go like, imitate, impersonate, make like, mirror, mock, parody, parrot, take off, travesty

source:Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

Imitate...

Main Entry: imitate Part of Speech: verb Definition: pretend

Synonyms for imitate: act like, affect, ape, assume, be like, borrow, burlesque, carbon, caricature, clone, copy, counterfeit, ditto, do, do like, do likewise, duplicate, echo, emulate, falsify, feign, follow, follow suit, forge, impersonate, look like, match, mime, mimic, mirror, mock, model after, parallel, parody, pattern after, personate, pretend, put on, reduplicate, reflect, repeat, replicate, reproduce, resemble, send up, sham, simulate, spoof, take off, travesty, xerox

source:Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

yoot 2005-05-28 18:13:38

ล้อเลียน , เสียดสี (lór-lian , sìat sĕe) - An ironic event or situation is interesting and sometimes humorous. As in Thai comedy acts, esp standup by Note Udom. ( as Sabaijai mentioned)

The source was his wife but he stole the credits from her as usual.ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ "loh lian jing jing"sarcastic/ironic/sardonic

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34108

Sarcastic...

Main Entry: sarcasticPart of Speech: adjectiveDefinition: nasty

Synonyms for sarcastic: acerb, acerbic, acid, acrimonious, arrogant, austere, backhanded, bitchy, biting, bitter, brusque, captious, carping, caustic, chaffing, contemptuous, contumelious, corrosive, crack, cussed, cutting, cynical, derisive, disillusioned, disparaging, disrespectful, evil, hostile, irascible, ironical, mean, mocking, mordant, needle, offensive, ornery, salty, sardonic, satirical, saucy, scorching, scornful, scurrilous, severe, sharp, smart alecky, snarling, sneering, taunting, trenchant, twitting, weisenheimer

source:Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

Ironic...

Main Entry: ironic Part of Speech: adjective Definition: sarcastic

Synonyms for ironic: acrid, alert, arrogant, backbiting, biting, bitter, burlesque, caustic, chaffing, clever, contemptuous, contradictory, critical, cutting, cynical, defiant, derisive, disparaging, double-edged, exaggerated, implausible, incisive, incongruous, ironical, jibing, keen, mocking, mordant, paradoxical, pungent, quick-witted, ridiculous, sardonic, satiric, satirical, scathing, scoffing, sharp, sneering, spicy, trenchant, twisted, uncomplimentary, unexpected, witty, wry

source:Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

sabaijai 2005-05-29 12:47:58

But it still appears to me that the Thai language doesn't have a single word or simple phrase that means 'ironic' in the English connotation of the word.

yoot 2005-05-29 20:24:07

Everyone who listen to his word understand that it's an irony. correct me if I'm wrong.

The words as แดกดัน,ประชด,ล้อเลียน,เสียดสี,กระทบกระเทียบ,เปรียบเปรย all are the definitions of ' irony' , but in the English sentence as "it's ironic...." for Thai language we can use tons of words

With your definition of the English 'ironic' the possiblities increase...ขี้นอยู่กับสถานการณ์

Tons of irony...

เหน็บแนม,กระแทกแดกดัน,เสียดสี,พูดกระทบกระแทก,ผู้ที่ชอบเยาะเย้ยถากถาง,ดูถูก,เหยียดหยาม,แดกดัน, ประชด,กระทบกระแทก,แดกให้,กระทบกระเทียบ,เจ็บแสบ,สียดแทง,กระแนะกระแหนบาดใจ,กระแทกกระทั้น,เย้ย,หยัน,เยาะเย้ย,ค่อนว่า,ถากถาง,ค่อนขอด, ค่อน,หัวเราะเยาะเย้ย,ทิ่มแทง....and what have you???

Snowleopard

[snowleopard]

sabaijai 2005-05-28 13:17:22

As far as I can tell, there is no direct translation for 'irony' in Thai

sabaijai 2005-05-28 13:17:22

Come to think of it, even the English-English definitions can be difficult to comprehend

Perhaps irony is more ingrained in British humour because historically it was a way to subtly undermine or deflate class conflict (but I'm way off topic here and out of my depth so pay no attention ... )

Let's look at the meanings of 'ironic' and 'sarcastic',shall we?

Irony;ironic,ironical,ironically

Irony is a method of speech where the true meaning is hidden or contradicted by the words used.

A part of irony is the perception that everything is not what it is said to be or what it appears to be.

In 'Dramatic Irony',the audience has a deeper perception of a coming fate while the character is unaware of this fate.

Etymology of 'irony'

The Greek etymon 'eironeia' means 'feigned ignorance'.

The technique of 'feigned ignorance' was often used by the philosopher Socrates.

Socratic Irony

The feigning-of-ignorance technique,which Socrates employed,is a method of exposing the weak points of another's positions.

The posture of 'Socratic Irony' disguises a skeptical and uncommitted atitude towards a stereotype or dogma which doesn't have a real basis in reason or in logic.

Socrates used to ask innocent questions which would expose the illogicality of his opponent's proposition on a step by step basis.

Socrates' supporters enjoyed the irony because they could perceive in advance that he was leading his opponent into a trap,and they knew he was much wiser than he appeared to be.

Heavy-handed Irony

Heavy-handed irony is where a speaker emphatically states the opposite of the truth.Sometimes body language and facial expressions are used.Heavy-handed irony is also called sarcasm.

For example,'well done' can be said in an angry voice when somebody has bungled a task.

Sarcasm in literature is often called 'verbal irony'.

Situational Irony

Situational irony is when players and events are coming together in improbable situations.

These situations are creating a tension between expected and real results.

Irony of Fate

Irony of fate is the idea that the three Fates-Clotho,Lachesis and Atropos -or other gods are playing games with people's minds.

For example,it suddenly begins to rain when you've just finished watering the lawn.

Tragic Irony

Tragic irony is used as a tool in tragedy when a dramatic situation is made more intense.

The tragedy "Oedipus the King" is a good example of tagic irony.

Sarcasm,sarcastic,sarcastical,sarcastically

Being sarcastic is to make remarks which are intended to sneer, jest, or mock a person.

The person referred to is normally the person who's addressed.

It can also be a situation or thing.

Sarcasm is often used in a humorous manner and expressed through particular intonations of the voice.

Over-emphasizing an actual statement, or particular words of it, is a simple method of being sarcastic.

Etymology of Sarcasm

The word sarcasm comes from the Latin word 'sarcasmus' which came from Greek 'sarkasmos' (sarkazein=to bite the lips in rage).

The root word literally means "to cut a piece of flesh from the targeted person".

Sarcasm vs Irony

Sarcasm is often misused as a synonym for irony.

Irony means that the literal meaning and the intended meaning of words are different.

Sarcasm is the mocking intent of the words.

It is possible to be sarcastic without being ironic,and vice versa.

Written by Snowleopard with information from miscellaneous sources.

Snowleopard

[meadish_sweetball]

It is possible to be sarcastic without being ironic,and vice versa. 

Snowleopard

Oh REALLY?

[yoot]

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different.

ล้อเลียน = การทำตามอย่างเพื่อยั่วเย้าให้ได้อายหรือโกรธ

เลียนแบบ = การทำหรือพยายามทำให้เหมือน(อาจจะเพราะชอบในสิ่งที่คนอื่นทำเลยอยากทำบ้าง แต่ไม่ได้มีเจตนาจะทำให้ผู้นั้นโกรธหรืออาย)

The source was his wife but he stole the credits from her as usual.ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ "loh lian jing jing"

If you want to say a sarcastic or ironic word to me in Thai, you should practice harder. Because none of Thais can understand your sense of humor from this word (ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ ).

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' .

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

Thanks for the meaning of all words you explained.

[snowleopard]

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different.

ล้อเลียน = การทำตามอย่างเพื่อยั่วเย้าให้ได้อายหรือโกรธ

เลียนแบบ = การทำหรือพยายามทำให้เหมือน(อาจจะเพราะชอบในสิ่งที่คนอื่นทำเลยอยากทำบ้าง แต่ไม่ได้มีเจตนาจะทำให้ผู้นั้นโกรธหรืออาย)

The source was his wife but he stole the credits from her as usual.ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ "loh lian jing jing"

If you want to say a sarcastic or ironic word to me in Thai, you should practice harder. Because none of Thais can understand your sense of humor from this word (ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ ).

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' .

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

Thanks for the meaning of all words you explained.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different.

I didn't say that they are direct synonyms and can be used interchangeably,only that they are synonyms.

If you want to say a sarcastic or ironic word to me in Thai, you should practice harder.

I wasn't addressing you.

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' .

ขอบคุณครับ ผมเข้าใจง่าย ๆ

Thanks for the meaning of all words you explained.

You're welcome.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

[bannork]

sabaijai 2005-05-28 13:17:22

As far as I can tell, there is no direct translation for 'irony' in Thai

sabaijai 2005-05-28 13:17:22

Come to think of it, even the English-English definitions can be difficult to comprehend

Perhaps irony is more ingrained in British humour because historically it was a way to subtly undermine or deflate class conflict (but I'm way off topic here and out of my depth so pay no attention ... )

Let's look at the meanings of 'ironic' and 'sarcastic',shall we?

Irony;ironic,ironical,ironically

Irony is a method of speech where the true meaning is hidden or contradicted by the words used.

A part of irony is the perception that everything is not what it is said to be or what it appears to be.

In 'Dramatic Irony',the audience has a deeper perception of a coming fate while the character is unaware of this fate.

Etymology of 'irony'

The Greek etymon 'eironeia' means 'feigned ignorance'.

The technique of 'feigned ignorance' was often used by the philosopher Socrates.

Socratic Irony

The feigning-of-ignorance technique,which Socrates employed,is a method of exposing the weak points of another's positions.

The posture of 'Socratic Irony' disguises a skeptical and uncommitted atitude towards a stereotype or dogma which doesn't have a real basis in reason or in logic.

Socrates used to ask innocent questions which would expose the illogicality of his opponent's proposition on a step by step basis.

Socrates' supporters enjoyed the irony because they could perceive in advance that he was leading his opponent into a trap,and they knew he was much wiser than he appeared to be.

Heavy-handed Irony

Heavy-handed irony is where a speaker emphatically states the opposite of the truth.Sometimes body language and facial expressions are used.Heavy-handed irony is also called sarcasm.

For example,'well done' can be said in an angry voice when somebody has bungled a task.

Sarcasm in literature is often called 'verbal irony'.

Situational Irony

Situational irony is when players and events are coming together in improbable situations.

These situations are creating a tension between expected and real results.

Irony of Fate

Irony of fate is the idea that the three Fates-Clotho,Lachesis and Atropos -or other gods are playing games with people's minds.

For example,it suddenly begins to rain when you've just finished watering the lawn.

Tragic Irony

Tragic irony is used as a tool in tragedy when a dramatic situation is made more intense.

The tragedy "Oedipus the King" is a good example of tagic irony.

Sarcasm,sarcastic,sarcastical,sarcastically

Being sarcastic is to make remarks which are intended to sneer, jest, or mock a person.

The person referred to is normally the person who's addressed.

It can also be a situation or thing.

Sarcasm is often used in a humorous manner and expressed through particular intonations of the voice.

Over-emphasizing an actual statement, or particular words of it, is a simple method of being sarcastic.

Etymology of Sarcasm

The word sarcasm comes from the Latin word 'sarcasmus' which came from Greek 'sarkasmos' (sarkazein=to bite the lips in rage).

The root word literally means "to cut a piece of flesh from the targeted person".

Sarcasm vs Irony

Sarcasm is often misused as a synonym for irony.

Irony means that the literal meaning and the intended meaning of words are different.

Sarcasm is the mocking intent of the words.

It is possible to be sarcastic without being ironic,and vice versa.

Written by Snowleopard with information from miscellaneous sources.

Snowleopard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's ironic that a Swede quotes English language textbooks more than the native speakers.

[Edward B]

Snowleopard,

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' .

Didn't you mean to say สู่รู้

[snowleopard]

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' 

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different

คุณครูครับ ใช้ 'เลียนแบบ' เช่นนี้ถูกต้องไหมครับ

สุนัขบางแก้วแสนรู้จริง ๆ คุณยุทธ์แสนรู้เหมือนกัน สงสัยเคยเลียนแบบกัน

Written by Snowleopard.

Source of inspiration:yoot

[yoot]

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' 

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different

คุณครูครับ ใช้ 'เลียนแบบ' เช่นนี้ถูกต้องไหมครับ

สุนัขบางแก้วแสนรู้จริง ๆ คุณยุทธ์แสนรู้เหมือนกัน สงสัยเคยเลียนแบบกัน

Written by Snowleopard.

Source of inspiration:yoot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

ยังไงก็ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้านะครับ มีลูกขอตัว แสนรู้อย่างงี้หายาก

[snowleopard]

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' 

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different

คุณครูครับ ใช้ 'เลียนแบบ' เช่นนี้ถูกต้องไหมครับ

สุนัขบางแก้วแสนรู้จริง ๆ คุณยุทธ์แสนรู้เหมือนกัน สงสัยเคยเลียนแบบกัน

Written by Snowleopard.

Source of inspiration:yoot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

ยังไงก็ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้านะครับ มีลูกขอตัว แสนรู้อย่างงี้หายาก

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

เสือดาวแท้จริงไม่ต้องเลียนแบบ Copycats beware.

ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้า

จริง ๆ แล้ว อยากจองอะไร จองเวรจองกรรม????

ช่วยไม่ได้ครับ สุนัขกับแมวไม่กินเส้นกัน

Dog is Dog,and Cat is Cat, and never the twain shall meet...

Adapted for the Thai language forum by Snowleopard

Source:Poem by Rudyard Kipling

[bannork]

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' 

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different

คุณครูครับ ใช้ 'เลียนแบบ' เช่นนี้ถูกต้องไหมครับ

สุนัขบางแก้วแสนรู้จริง ๆ คุณยุทธ์แสนรู้เหมือนกัน สงสัยเคยเลียนแบบกัน

Written by Snowleopard.

Source of inspiration:yoot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

ยังไงก็ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้านะครับ มีลูกขอตัว แสนรู้อย่างงี้หายาก

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

เสือดาวแท้จริงไม่ต้องเลียนแบบ Copycats beware.

ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้า

จริง ๆ แล้ว อยากจองอะไร จองเวรจองกรรม????

ช่วยไม่ได้ครับ สุนัขกับแมวไม่กินเส้นกัน

Dog is Dog,and Cat is Cat, and never the twain shall meet...

Adapted for the Thai language forum by Snowleopard

Source:Poem by Rudyard Kipling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เเต่เสือดาวที่อยู่ในเมืองต้องเป็นปลอมเลียนเเบบตลอดเวลาเป็นสุนัขเเสนรู้จริงๆเห็นเครื่องบินมันเห่าตลอด

[snowleopard]

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' 

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

yoot Posted Yesterday, 2005-06-03 12:01:26

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different

คุณครูครับ ใช้ 'เลียนแบบ' เช่นนี้ถูกต้องไหมครับ

สุนัขบางแก้วแสนรู้จริง ๆ คุณยุทธ์แสนรู้เหมือนกัน สงสัยเคยเลียนแบบกัน

Written by Snowleopard.

Source of inspiration:yoot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

ยังไงก็ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้านะครับ มีลูกขอตัว แสนรู้อย่างงี้หายาก

เก่งมากเลยครับ อย่างคุณนี่เลยแหละ ที่เรียกว่า 'เลียนแบบ'

เสือดาวแท้จริงไม่ต้องเลียนแบบ Copycats beware.

ขอจองไว้ล่วงหน้า

จริง ๆ แล้ว อยากจองอะไร จองเวรจองกรรม????

ช่วยไม่ได้ครับ สุนัขกับแมวไม่กินเส้นกัน

Dog is Dog,and Cat is Cat, and never the twain shall meet...

Adapted for the Thai language forum by Snowleopard

Source:Poem by Rudyard Kipling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เเต่เสือดาวที่อยู่ในเมืองต้องเป็นปลอมเลียนเเบบตลอดเวลาเป็นสุนัขเเสนรู้จริงๆเห็นเครื่องบินมันเห่าตลอด

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

สุนัข...เห็นเครื่องบินมันเห่า

Was that original or did you just copy yourself again Barn-fork?

The above dog-quote sounds very familiar,doesn't it? (pun intended)

bannork 2004-08-12 16:59:30

หมาเห่าเครื่งบิน--the dog barks at the aeroplane--pigs can fly, namely what you're hoping for or wishing for is impossible. Always use this when your dearest requests yet more funds; on the other hand you could point your head upwards and bark furiously, the missus should get the idea.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14893&hl=

Ironically enough,your propensity for repetition and self-imitation has now inspired the creation of a brand new Thai proverb.

การเลียนแบบตนเองเท่ากับเป็นการยกย่องไม่จริงใจ

Proverb was invented by and is copyrighted to Snowleopard.

Source:Snowleopard's 'brain-child' was born from empirically observing the self-replicating posts of 'Bannork the Inbreed'.

[bannork]

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different.

ล้อเลียน = การทำตามอย่างเพื่อยั่วเย้าให้ได้อายหรือโกรธ

เลียนแบบ = การทำหรือพยายามทำให้เหมือน(อาจจะเพราะชอบในสิ่งที่คนอื่นทำเลยอยากทำบ้าง แต่ไม่ได้มีเจตนาจะทำให้ผู้นั้นโกรธหรืออาย)

The source was his wife but he stole the credits from her as usual.ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ "loh lian jing jing"

If you want to say a sarcastic or ironic word to me in Thai, you should practice harder. Because none of Thais can understand your sense of humor from this word (ล้อเลียนจริง ๆ ).

I'd like to tell you that you are 'แสนรู้จริง ๆ' .

I hope this can help you to understand more about Thai language.

Thanks for the meaning of all words you explained.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snowleopard,

With all due respect , I think you don't understand the different between the words 'ล้อเลียน ' and 'เลียนแบบ' much. Although the meaning you got from the dictionary are the same, but the usage of them are quite different.

I didn't say that they are direct synonyms and can be used interchangeably,only that they are synonyms.

If you want to say a sarcastic or ironic word to me in Thai, you should practice harder.

ล้อเลียน is to satirise, to parody, it's completely different to เลียนเเบบ which is to copy or imitate which unfortunately is what you keep doing with your endless quotes from various language sources when the native speakers on this forum already know the difference between irony, sarcasm, extracting urine,taking the mick,sending up,winding up,hesitating, wavering, vacillitating,sitting on the fence,indecisive, etc.

Don't try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

As you know เเสนรู้จริงฯ is a double edged sword either meaning very proficient in language or as knowledgeable as a dog, you picked up on yoot's dig so my reference to you barking at the aeroplane was simply a continuation of the canine theme. You know dogs, and undoubtedly snowleopards, are much happier บ้านนอก