Work permit and M.E visa to non b

[lingnoi1977]

Let's be clear here - I am not from this establishment. I am just a customer who likes to write, good or bad about my dining experiences.

Had a wonderful dinner at Giorgio the other night. We, a group of 4 indulged in what I would humbly call the truest Italian establishment in Chiangmai. It helps that cheffy is Italian but it is his ability to delegate the right techiniques to his sous chef that impressed me. He spends a fair bit of time at the other restaurant round the corner and I guess relies on his team to deliver consistency.

Giorgio seems to have a strong local Thai/Farang following, evident by the fuss the owners wife was making over a particular table who thought their BYO bottle of said to be prestigious Italian wine was from the North West (Piedmont - truffle country) but was actually from Tuscany

But here's the thing ...

What peeved us off was that she, the owner who barely had any clothes beneath her table cloth shirt, sat with these "regular" guests, sipped wine and enjoyed the general conviviality of the table whilst ignoring several tables in need around her. We did not expect perfect service (it is Thailand after all) but some sense of awareness or concern for the surroundings would be a nice initiative.

Moments before this the 'first lady' was eating her lovely little Italian dinner whilst her staff were furiously re-setting tables. She reluctantly relinquished her table when some guests arrived and I suppose that's why she joined the 'distinguished' guests - couldn't bare to get her hands dirty and make sure the other guests were happy.

Ok, so this looks like a bit of a sulk at something pretty insignificant but when you are hosting a dinner and paying a fair amount of money for it, you can expect some common decency from the owner.

Won't be putting money in her pocket again...

Aparently Le Meridien Italian is pretty good...?

[Ulysses G.]

The food is really good and the female owner "barely has any clothes on"? Who care if she ignores me? That sounds worth a visit to me!

[millwall_fan]

As the proprietor of a restaurant I would say it is very difficult to know which customers want to be chatted with and which would prefer you to let them enjoy their own company. When I used to come to Chiang Mai as a tourist, I used to hate restauranteurs fawning over me. In my place its easier: the rule of thumb is, if you sit at the bar you want to chat, if you sit at a table, you don't. It's even more difficult in somewhere like Georgios how do they know who wants to talk? Especially with a party of 4 such as yours, I would assume that they didn't want to chat to me, but had come to enjoy each others company.

As a sweeping generalisation I would ays that Brits and Aussies prefer to be left alone whereas Americans like to be fussed over. Just my experience.

[angiud]

Good italian food, an half-naked italian woman owner. You Chiang Mai people always so lucky.

[lingnoi1977]

As the proprietor of a restaurant I would say it is very difficult to know which customers want to be chatted with and which would prefer you to let them enjoy their own company. When I used to come to Chiang Mai as a tourist, I used to hate restauranteurs fawning over me. In my place its easier: the rule of thumb is, if you sit at the bar you want to chat, if you sit at a table, you don't. It's even more difficult in somewhere like Georgios how do they know who wants to talk? Especially with a party of 4 such as yours, I would assume that they didn't want to chat to me, but had come to enjoy each others company.

As a sweeping generalisation I would ays that Brits and Aussies prefer to be left alone whereas Americans like to be fussed over. Just my experience.

Fair call.... I always reckon some sort of acknowledgement is a nice thing and I just thought it was interesting that the need for general courtesy and service was overlooked in time of need.

[lingnoi1977]

The food is really good and the female owner "barely has any clothes on"? Who care if she ignores me? That sounds worth a visit to me!

just lift up the "table cloth"...

[Ulysses G.]

As a sweeping generalisation I would ays that Brits and Aussies prefer to be left alone whereas Americans like to be fussed over. Just my experience.

Not this American.

[Smiles]

The food is really good and the female owner "barely has any clothes on"? Who care if she ignores me? That sounds worth a visit to me!

Agree that Food is great .

Not many Thai lady can put on 'barely any clothes'

They need to be in shape and why not flung it when you got it?

[cm96]

Lotta horn-dog replies but nothing that speaks to the actual issue which is poor service & bad manners. If you're from the Western world & lived

in Thailand long enough the comparison between quality of service should be glaring back at you from all over the country, not just from the 'best'

italian restaurant in town. The fact that she's the owner's wife does'nt automatically mean she's got any class. More likely just the opposite. She was Thai yes?

That's pretty common behaviour from a Thai woman who thinks she's 'made it'. (treating subbordinates like crap, not valueing customers).

[millwall_fan]

As a sweeping generalisation I would ays that Brits and Aussies prefer to be left alone whereas Americans like to be fussed over. Just my experience.

Not this American.

I did say it was a sweeping generalisation UG!

[Ulysses G.]

I know. I just wanted to confirm that it is a sweeping generalization.

[rodcourt49]

Good italian food, an half-naked italian woman owner. You Chiang Mai people always so lucky.

See through clothes..and see through character..so what!

[CMX]

It bothers me that the most important aspect of dining out is being ignored here, with regard to service. I do not need gabby mate to serve during a meal, and nobody should. I dislike even more having our DINING needs ignored for an irresponsible period of time. Customers need timely service most of all, a condiment now, beverages pretty much as needed, a fallen fork or spoon replaced before the food gets cold. Any manager or owner who does not train the staff to make this approach primary (in addition to smiles and non-time-taking manners) deserves to work in an empty restaurant.

Service should pay attention to the customers and be alert for their dining needs. OP suggests that the woman in question was not helping. Apparently her agenda is not to participate in the process, and given her station and role in that restaurant it is hard to judge, and perhaps wrong to try. Did I like the place a lot, I might mention it to the peripatetic owner, if I could get him to slow down.

But if we suggest Brits and Oz folk (in a sweeping generalization that admits of exceptions a'plenty) want to waste the time of the help, and USians want to be left alone all the time, I think we err. Nobody should take away service (IF IT IS NEEDED) by demanding that their social needs be filled (and those who do should get a life or drink less). And nobody wants to be ignored entirely during a meal when something is needed. Exception about conversation, yes, is the bar.

Best service on the planet is in France, where one is rarely if ever neglected (by typically dour businesslike types, who would NEVER chat up their own customers, even their mothers).

Edited April 4, 2010 by CMX

[Bill97]

When Georgio is around things usually run smoothly but with two locations it can be hit and miss. When he was running one location the service was great. With no management there at 6 when they open for dinner Thai disco music and employees yelling at each other takes the edge off dining. Food standard seems to have been maintained at a high level.

[SomchaiCNX]

When you have a problem with the service, staff or the owner go to them first, simple.

It may be harsh but al least you are honnest to them.

[lingnoi1977]

Lotta horn-dog replies but nothing that speaks to the actual issue which is poor service & bad manners. If you're from the Western world & lived

in Thailand long enough the comparison between quality of service should be glaring back at you from all over the country, not just from the 'best'

italian restaurant in town. The fact that she's the owner's wife does'nt automatically mean she's got any class. More likely just the opposite. She was Thai yes?

That's pretty common behaviour from a Thai woman who thinks she's 'made it'. (treating subbordinates like crap, not valueing customers).

Yes, Thai and yes, she thinks she has made it no doubt at all.

She is what many farangs laugh at - you know the status symbol of a restaurant and all...

It's the type of thing you would have seen in the west 20 odd years ago.

[lingnoi1977]

It bothers me that the most important aspect of dining out is being ignored here, with regard to service. I do not need gabby mate to serve during a meal, and nobody should. I dislike even more having our DINING needs ignored for an irresponsible period of time. Customers need timely service most of all, a condiment now, beverages pretty much as needed, a fallen fork or spoon replaced before the food gets cold. Any manager or owner who does not train the staff to make this approach primary (in addition to smiles and non-time-taking manners) deserves to work in an empty restaurant.

Service should pay attention to the customers and be alert for their dining needs. OP suggests that the woman in question was not helping. Apparently her agenda is not to participate in the process, and given her station and role in that restaurant it is hard to judge, and perhaps wrong to try. Did I like the place a lot, I might mention it to the peripatetic owner, if I could get him to slow down.

But if we suggest Brits and Oz folk (in a sweeping generalization that admits of exceptions a'plenty) want to waste the time of the help, and USians want to be left alone all the time, I think we err. Nobody should take away service (IF IT IS NEEDED) by demanding that their social needs be filled (and those who do should get a life or drink less). And nobody wants to be ignored entirely during a meal when something is needed. Exception about conversation, yes, is the bar.

CMX, the most important aspects of the night were all in check - company and food.

In my post I did not elaborate on our dining needs because they are academic now but the point is (and you seem to appreciate this) there was a blatant and distasteful dis-service from the top. The rank and file staff were actually very good all night but at our time of need they were pretty stretched. I actually felt for them.

You may be right - she is not there to assist. Maybe she sees her role as a "hostess".

The best way to look at a restaurant operation is as a team. Front of house can not operate successfully without the co-operation from the back end and vice-versa. Perhaps I am wrong to judge but I reckon we are all judges or critics when we dine out as opposed to eat out.

If it were my establishment I would make sure all guests are looked after well before sitting down to indulge.

[CMX]

Far be it from me to suggest that a wife, any wife, should not always be doing the exact bidding of her husband, even if he made a point that morning that his socks were not properly ironed. Nor am I prepared to approve a little rebellion in the tit-for-tat exchanges and trade-offs that add up to connubial bliss.

Yet as a customer, I think it better to limit my judgment to the degree that said wife disarranged my comfort, particularly if it delayed working staff from waiting on my table. Meanwhile, I have not - as the saying is, in our muddled Colonies - walked in her moccasins.

The onus is simply rests with me to explain in the most digestible way to Georgio that my experience would be even better (with an antiseptic example of how I was neglected) - or eat elsewhere, probably nearby at the bistro that I think of as Sauciers' Place, where so far as I've seen, the frosty quiet eye of Madame seems to improve service. Burp.

Edited April 4, 2010 by CMX

[CMX]

Far be it from me to suggest that a wife, any wife, should not always be doing the exact bidding of her husband, even if he made a point that morning that his socks were not properly ironed. Nor am I prepared to approve a little rebellion by a mere woman in the tit-for-tat exchanges and trade-offs that add up to connubial bliss.

Yet as a customer, I think it better to limit my judgment to the degree that said wife disarranged my comfort, particularly if it delayed working staff from waiting on my table. Meanwhile, I have not - as the saying is, in our muddled Colonies - walked in her moccasins, let alone lived her life.

Any concern I feel, I feel, should limit itself to explaining in the most digestible way to Georgio that my dining experience would be even better (with an antiseptic example of how I was neglected) - or eat elsewhere, probably nearby at the bistro that I think of as Sauciers' Place, where so far as I've seen, the frosty quiet eye of Madame seems to improve service, if that's possible.

Windy, huh! OK, OK. I should simply have said that to enjoy eating out, the qualities of the food and the service are my business and mine to help along, if I can. Relationships I deal with at my table, 'cause they're mine.

Edited April 4, 2010 by CMX

[angiud]

Boys, I'm so happy I have my restaurants in another location and not in Chiang Mai.

For sure I couldn't survive to all the critics, complains and sometime gossips of this respected subforum.

[getgoin]

Boys, I'm so happy I have my restaurants in another location and not in Chiang Mai.

For sure I couldn't survive to all the critics, complains and sometime gossips of this respected subforum.

It's not all about that but the narrow minded, second grade education by many of the self centered posters here really gives one a real chance to see the world in a different light. Particularly those with closed minds and there are many.

Edited April 4, 2010 by getgoin

[millwall_fan]

Boys, I'm so happy I have my restaurants in another location and not in Chiang Mai.

For sure I couldn't survive to all the critics, complains and sometime gossips of this respected subforum.

I have to say -as a restaurant owner in Chiang Mai, that I generally value the criticism of my own and other restaurants on this forum. It does keep us on our toes!

A few guys on here do tend to just fire off at a restaurant for no good reason other than that they are bored (and boring), but the vast majority are just local ex-pats who like to eat out and to discuss the experience.

Contributors do need to think clearly about what they want to say and not say damaging things about individual establishments and need to understand that in terms of Farang food we are on the end of a very long supply chain and things may not be exactly as they would get back home, but most ex pats DO understand that and their comments are valuable

[lingnoi1977]

Far be it from me to suggest that a wife, any wife, should not always be doing the exact bidding of her husband, even if he made a point that morning that his socks were not properly ironed. Nor am I prepared to approve a little rebellion by a mere woman in the tit-for-tat exchanges and trade-offs that add up to connubial bliss.

Yet as a customer, I think it better to limit my judgment to the degree that said wife disarranged my comfort, particularly if it delayed working staff from waiting on my table. Meanwhile, I have not - as the saying is, in our muddled Colonies - walked in her moccasins, let alone lived her life.

Any concern I feel, I feel, should limit itself to explaining in the most digestible way to Georgio that my dining experience would be even better (with an antiseptic example of how I was neglected) - or eat elsewhere, probably nearby at the bistro that I think of as Sauciers' Place, where so far as I've seen, the frosty quiet eye of Madame seems to improve service, if that's possible.

Windy, huh! OK, OK. I should simply have said that to enjoy eating out, the qualities of the food and the service are my business and mine to help along, if I can. Relationships I deal with at my table, 'cause they're mine.

Well stated CMX