Thai Protesters Skirmish With Police In Tourist Hub

[animatic]

.... Nor has the PM's position been helped by the announcement by the UK government that it is calling a general election in a month's time

and that Parliament will be dissolved in a few days to allow the election to go ahead. If it can be done in the UK, it can be done in Thailand if there is a will.

Nor is Abhisit HURT by Browns calling an election.

Brown has 2 months left on his Parliaments term, not 1 year plus as Abhisit does.

Brown called it ONE MONTH early to throw the Torys on to the back foot with a surprise.

Not because he was being pressured by a street mob and a billionaire trying to bring him down

to further their own avaricious ends.

Not analogous at all other than relatively the same type of government in place.

[geriatrickid]

and add that the Police Brass do not like Abhisit because he has been trying to stop the

Promotions for Pay system and though he has his own temp Police chief in place, many below him

do not like Abhisit and are not inclined to help him out at their own risk to career path.

How about less conspiracy theories and a look of what's in place. A poorly paid group of people who do not want to see unnecessary violence. If you were making peanuts, would you be motivated to go out in the hot sticky weather and beat up the elderly? Maybe the police are just Thai at heart and recoil at the prospect of doing physical harm to another Thai on such a wide scale? Some of us are quick to ridicule Thais for the behaviour, but I think this is one time where the police really are trying to be decent. they also know that if not handled calmly the likelihood of billions of dollars of property damage and the loss of life is a distinct possibility. There are not enough police in Bangkok to keep a spontaneous uprising from happening and that's what could happen if there are old people killed. Patience is a wonderful strength of the Thais. Take it as a cue. Stay cool and go frolic on the beaches of Koh Samui, or better yet, visit the most beautiful airport in Thailand.

[animatic]

I just watched an interview of the producer from that decrypted video above. He and his team are under close surveillance since months before the video was finally released just hours ago and in meanwhile all over the media worldwide. They are a security threat to the Pentagon, was the army's statement.

In Washington-post the Pentagon confirmed that this is the original.

Quite a whistle-blower.

Thaksins "War on Drugs" was even more obvious, but at the same line of deception and misinformation.

You haven't the slightest clue to what it's like in a warzone do you? Decisions have to be made on short notice. Yes, some people got killed, but is it any worse than friendly fire deaths where the military kills its own? Friendly fire deaths are still a major cause of injury and death in war zones. In this particular case, these "journalists" were smack dab in the middle of a shootout, a place where they were not supposed to be, and they were carrying equipment that when viewed resembled arms. You conveniently fail to mention this group had pinned down a unit for some time and that unit was taking casualties. The producer and his team a threat? Only to rational thought. The claims are intended to promote the agenda. Hardly a whistle blower. Go and post a few videos showing the execution of teachers and health workers in the south of Thailand ok. Or better yet post a few videos of the Iraquis blowing up aid convoys bringing in food, water and medicine for the civilian population, be sure to show the savage beheading of the drivers and aid workers. The death of the "journalists" was unfortunate, but they knew it was a warzone and people get killed in a warzone. That is why it is called a warzone.

You then use the clip that was taken out of context to comment on the drug conflict under thaksin. Are you clueless? What is going on in Mexico today, with rogue military units, corrupt cops, and a tainted judiciary all implicated in an all out drug war. that's a war, where the cartels line up kids and murder them and then try to blame it on the government. What happened under Thaksin was no different, except Thaksin's intervention prevented a drug war like Mexico. Yes, the police and military under Thailand may have committed criminal acts at the time of the drug cracjdown, but that wasn't because Thaksin told them to go be criminals. These were rogue units, many of whom were in the drug cartels themselves. These were also units that were acting as a law unto themselves. The police and military as has been pointed out thousands of times are a law unto themselves. It doesn't matter if the government is yellow or red, the police and army do as they wish.

I don't agree with GK often, but we are on the same page here for this war video.

Truly sad that these journalists were killed, but they knew the risks,

and accepted them, I have a friend who works at Reuters and she accepts

that this was fog of war accident. And must be seen in context of what was

happening around it.

I disagree on the other point. Thaksin created an environment that made the rogue units

acceptable for a time and there is not forgone c0onclusion that a Mexico like Drug War

was about to break out. Nor is collateral damage in a war zone the same as innocents

being killed on the street by rogue police units trying to rack up numbers.

[animatic]

and add that the Police Brass do not like Abhisit because he has been trying to stop the

Promotions for Pay system and though he has his own temp Police chief in place, many below him

do not like Abhisit and are not inclined to help him out at their own risk to career path.

How about less conspiracy theories and a look of what's in place. A poorly paid group of people who do not want to see unnecessary violence. If you were making peanuts, would you be motivated to go out in the hot sticky weather and beat up the elderly? Maybe the police are just Thai at heart and recoil at the prospect of doing physical harm to another Thai on such a wide scale? Some of us are quick to ridicule Thais for the behaviour, but I think this is one time where the police really are trying to be decent. they also know that if not handled calmly the likelihood of billions of dollars of property damage and the loss of life is a distinct possibility. There are not enough police in Bangkok to keep a spontaneous uprising from happening and that's what could happen if there are old people killed. Patience is a wonderful strength of the Thais. Take it as a cue. Stay cool and go frolic on the beaches of Koh Samui, or better yet, visit the most beautiful airport in Thailand.

Regardless of the other stuff you mention, my comment still plays a part.

I didn't imply it is the only force at play, nor that it was some grand conspiracy,

just a general dislike of Abhisit by those likely seeing their promotion path stymied.

[Insight]

and add that the Police Brass do not like Abhisit because he has been trying to stop the

Promotions for Pay system and though he has his own temp Police chief in place, many below him

do not like Abhisit and are not inclined to help him out at their own risk to career path.

How about less conspiracy theories and a look of what's in place. A poorly paid group of people who do not want to see unnecessary violence. If you were making peanuts, would you be motivated to go out in the hot sticky weather and beat up the elderly? Maybe the police are just Thai at heart and recoil at the prospect of doing physical harm to another Thai on such a wide scale? Some of us are quick to ridicule Thais for the behaviour, but I think this is one time where the police really are trying to be decent. they also know that if not handled calmly the likelihood of billions of dollars of property damage and the loss of life is a distinct possibility. There are not enough police in Bangkok to keep a spontaneous uprising from happening and that's what could happen if there are old people killed. Patience is a wonderful strength of the Thais. Take it as a cue. Stay cool and go frolic on the beaches of Koh Samui, or better yet, visit the most beautiful airport in Thailand.

I have to agree with you right now. Regardless of what the reds are saying on stage, any action by the army will be extremely provocative right now.

Owing to the amount of innocent people there, a response has to be based on what they do, rather than say.

[geriatrickid]

I disagree on the other point. Thaksin created an environment that made the rogue units

acceptable for a time and there is not forgone c0onclusion that a Mexico like Drug War

was about to break out. Nor is collateral damage in a war zone the same as innocents

being killed on the street by rogue police units trying to rack up numbers.

On that we will disagree, but I think we both agree that any loss of innocent life in the Thai drug event was wrong. I'll even go so far as to hold Thaksin responsible for not doing more to reign them in. Instead of rhetoric, he should have urged restraint, but then this gets back to my view that there was an imminent threat presented by the cartels in Thailand. We both agree that there was and still is a problem with the police. The predicament is on how to stop it. Sadly, I think we would both be taking turns banging our heads on a concrete wall.

Regardless of the other stuff you mention, my comment still plays a part.

I didn't imply it is the only force at play, nor that it was some grand conspiracy,

just a general dislike of Abhisit by those likely seeing their promotion path stymied.

fair enough and no doubt your view is certainly true, it may be only one of the motivating factors. Perhaps we are saying the same thing? Why put yourself out for nothing?

[hammered]

Another precedent re crowd clearance that many miss is the Somchai one. The PM, the cabinet and the police are all awar eof it and are trying to learn form that and avoid having happen to them what happened to the cabinet, PM and police bosses back then.

[Thai at Heart]

Another precedent re crowd clearance that many miss is the Somchai one. The PM, the cabinet and the police are all awar eof it and are trying to learn form that and avoid having happen to them what happened to the cabinet, PM and police bosses back then.

On the basis that some police chief's ended up in court facing evidence from the GT2000, I would be pretty reluctant to go anywhere near a confrontation with the reds.

[moresomekl]

If the governement promises elections in 9 months and a string of measures for the upcountry people ( that was announced yesterday see other thread) then i think they should be given a chance .

However one could argue that thoses promises are made under pressure from the street and that once the pressure is removed the governement will find all sorts of reason not to implement those promises .

I would like to bring forward the idea that some folks from the red shirts or/and PT be accepted (if they agree) in the current governement of PM Abhisit as member of the cabinet (ministers) until next election , first as a way to ensure that promises are held , secund to end the current standoff . It cost nothing to try for 9 months and discuss after , and i think it would save billions of $ to Thailand . Investors would also very much like a cohabitation system or unity governement . I think everyone is really tired .

I have no idea on any names but I hope not the corrupt Newin (brother number 2 in khmer rouge parlance , the fugitive beeing number one). I hope that the future belongs to young leaders that have a strong stand against corruption .

Asking fo immediate dissolution or 15 days is not realistic nor reasonable , I think . The governement MUST be given time to do his job .

Moreover any election result now would probably bring the loosers on the streets yet again.

[animatic]

Another precedent re crowd clearance that many miss is the Somchai one. The PM, the cabinet and the police are all awar eof it and are trying to learn form that and avoid having happen to them what happened to the cabinet, PM and police bosses back then.

On the basis that some police chief's ended up in court facing evidence from the GT2000, I would be pretty reluctant to go anywhere near a confrontation with the reds.

GT2000... HUH???

What does the sham bomb detector have to do with

the Oct 7th exploding teargas canister debacle????

Answer; NOTHING...

[Thai at Heart]

GT2000... HUH???

What does the sham bomb detector have to do with

the Oct 7th exploding teargas canister debacle????

Answer; NOTHING...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva#GT200_scandal

Pornthip Rojanasunand, Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, had used GT200 devices to concluded that PAD protestor injuries during the 2008 seizure of Government House were due to police misconduct rather than accidental explosion of protester "ping pong bombs", and defended the use of the GT200 devices, claiming that they were effective when searching for bombs and even nails under wate

http://www.parliament.go.th/news/news_detail.php?prid=164919

The deaths and serious injuries raised questions about whether police used lethal force - and not only tear gas - to disperse PAD demonstrators.

While Pornthip was inspecting the scene of Tuesday's events in front of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, many injured victims showed up to tell her what happened to them on that day. They also allowed Pornthip's team to examine their wounds.

National artist Naowarat Pongpaiboon also called on Pornthip to give justice to fellow artist Chingchai Udomkij, who lost a hand in the violence.

"It's impossible for such an artist to carry bombs," Naowarat said in response to police suggestions that some victims had inadvertently harmed themselves from carrying bombs.

Pornthip said the cause of Chingchai's injuries had yet to be determined.

"Our team has used a GT200 substance detector and found no substance used in making bombs. We've already checked the clash scenes and the bodies and clothing of the injured victims," she said.

Seems it had plenty to do with the investigation.

[mike_rad]

Which tourist district?

[NCFC]

Strange is not that Thaksin is not welcome in the U.S yet Abhisit is ?

Bush as far as I can recall was involved in a somewhat questionable scenario in his trek to the Presidential position.

Obama as I recall was elected without any strange vote counting antics.

Yes..perhaps Thaksin is not an american-lap-dog and perhaps Abhisit is?

I agree..as most if not all are.

As I recall he hasn't shown proof that he is a natural born citizen of the country(as John McCain had to before running), which is required law by the Constitution. A top navy officer has just refused orders coming from Commander in Chief(obamanation) on the grounds that he is not president officially/legally. I guess he and several others like him are mistaken, too. He is just as corrupt as them come..especially when he was governor. Of course you only going by what the mainstream dictates to you. Gobble Gobble...

What on earth does the internal politics of USA have to do with the Red Shirt Protest, isnt their some USA forum where they can air their suspect linen

Totally agree. To our American friends: I understand that you have strong views about your president. Feel free to argue you points as strongly as you wish, but please do so in a more appropriate forum.

I have got this far in this thread and nobody has addressed the key issue, you have all been too busy bashing Thaksin and Obama. The issue is the unwillingness of the police to disperse what is generally a good natured crowd. Why do they not take action? Is it because they fear large scale blood shed as they say, or do the political control (the PM and Deputy PM) not have their support? If Abhisit does not have the support of the police (in this instance), why was the army not used?

There are hawks on this forum calling for martial law to be imposed and "stong" i.e. violent measures to be taken to disperse the protesters. I am sure that has been considered and I am equally sure it has been ruled out so far because the negative consequences will cause far more damage to the country than letting the protests continue. Imposing martial law just before SonKhran will inflict masive damage on the tourism industry for starters.

Nor has the PM's position been helped by the announcement by the UK government that it is calling a general election in a month's time and that Parliament will be dissolved in a few days to allow the election to go ahead. If it can be done in the UK, it can be done in Thailand if there is a will. The question is: is there the will?Abhisit appears to the world that he is dithering and that weakens him.

The hawks in his party are not happy with how the situation is being handled. Maybe, he thinks that he could be ousted if he goes on his long planned trip to the USA.

Many of the "hawks" on this forum assume that the army and police operate in much the same way as they do in their own home country. I believe that in Thailand the heads of the army and police are far more independent when compare with their western counterparts.

So it's not enough to expect that when a Thai prime minister (of whatever party) says "Go and do it", that the army/police chiefs will necessarily obey orders to the letter. Today, Abhisit has told Anoupong to basically sort it out whereas the General has turned around and said 'not my business".

Clearly the police and the army are looking after their own interests first and you can expect them to act not until it is in their interests.

If Anoupong goes in after women and children, it is not going to do his career much good, and there is always the possibility of some liberal Human Rights commission sitting in the Hague for whom a third-world general slaughtering innocent civilians (and all caught on camera) would be meat and drink.

It's never back and white (or red and yellow come to that) in Thailand.

[anotherpeter]

Many of the "hawks" on this forum assume that the army and police operate in much the same way as they do in their own home country. I believe that in Thailand the heads of the army and police are far more independent when compare with their western counterparts.

So it's not enough to expect that when a Thai prime minister (of whatever party) says "Go and do it", that the army/police chiefs will necessarily obey orders to the letter. Today, Abhisit has told Anoupong to basically sort it out whereas the General has turned around and said 'not my business".

Clearly the police and the army are looking after their own interests first and you can expect them to act not until it is in their interests.

If Anoupong goes in after women and children, it is not going to do his career much good, and there is always the possibility of some liberal Human Rights commission sitting in the Hague for whom a third-world general slaughtering innocent civilians (and all caught on camera) would be meat and drink.

It's never back and white (or red and yellow come to that) in Thailand.

There is a big difference between going "in after women and children" and stopping protestors (of any colour) from entering parliament.

The army/police in Thailand seem to let the demonstrators do whatever they like, even though it is clearly stated that it is illegal.

The army showed yesterday that they could stop the protestors when they stopped them going to the "11 restricted locations", but then later in the day they let them do what they wanted.

They need to learn how do deal with protests - in a peaceful manner, but not letting the protestors do everything that they want.

[Humphrey Bear]

The red-shirted supporters of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra threw plastic bottles and pushed against police barricades, paralysing Bangkok's shopping and hotel district for a fourth day in a bid to topple the government.

"We are ready to fight and die here," Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said with a raised fist on a rally stage.

Pronounced What-a-nut Sucker

[binnsy]

I find it amazing that all kinds of FARANG post on here there thoughts about a country that are guests in and they choose to live in IF they are not happy with the way things are done here in LOS be it by whatever colour shirts then prehaps they should return to there home countries and moan about there goverments.

[vicco]

Ahem.....boys, I really hate to bring this up, ya know, being as I'm supposed to be a "Thaksin apologist" n' all.....but I seem to remember all of you "experts" on the Redshirts were telling us (over three weeks ago) that the whole thing was a total failure. "They are not getting the numbers" "They will all go home as soon as the sticky rice and stinky fish runs out" "There are only demonstrating because they are being paid" What happened? They seem to be still there....in very large numbers. Guess the supply of sticky rice and stinky fish must have exceeded your estimates? They have not "won" anything yet that I can see ---other than high marks for determination, but then they are just

misinformed village idiots after all, who so far seem to be making all of our highly informed and vastly superior members look petty lame. Keep the theories coming gentlemen...if you predict enough things maybe with luck you can get something right. Still waiting on all the violence and bloodshed....maybe somebody will throw an empty coke can at the police or something...then victory can be yours. It was announced yesterday that the army was going to break up the protest at 10am.....within a very short time thousand more reds appeared, but no army? Could it be that the army just does not want to tackle this little problem....80% or more of the non-commissioned soldiers are probably the sons of redshirts...dear or dear, what to do... I suppose it all has to end sometime but the question is HOW?? Baht still up....Taiex up 9% in the last 3 weeks...investors are clearly in a blind panic....but hey maybe they don't read Thaivisa...

PS No apologies for Thaksin...don't even know the guy.... I like the PM though...smooth, polite, genteel, Oxford man--clean as a whistle..not a whiff of corruption anywhere near him. Looked cute in that Hitler outfit the Reds put on him....got to have a bit of levity in politics don't you think?

[TPI]

It would be interesting if the opinions of those that were murdered in the ''war on Drugs and the Tak Bai massacre and of course a prominent Muslim lawyer could voice them.

Indeed Thaksin had and it seems still has his own unique version of DEMOCRACY

In all of my twenty years here I had never seen such a despotic regime like Thaksins regime.

The truth along with honesty and concern for other were not endangered species they were extinct,

Indeed the current rhetoric and actions of the puppet leaders of the Red Shirt Brigade are proving that the exhumation of '' The truth, honesty and the concern for others'' must be re interred post haste forever under their brand of DEMOCRACY.

So, the present form of gov't is a democratically elected one, yes? I wonder why Abhisit was going to the U.S.? He said he may have to cancel taking the trip there. Interesting..perhaps to get instructions or aid from a well prepped dictator(who is still illegally occupying the white house) who knows how to handle dissidents perhaps? You best wake-up to the REALITY of the way the world is really running..democracy..what horse shit.

Dear Sir,

Where on earth did you get the idea that the latest president of the US is illegal? Surely you mean the one before him? Dictator?? Sir, you've forgotten to take your medicine again, haven't you!

[NCFC]

Many of the "hawks" on this forum assume that the army and police operate in much the same way as they do in their own home country. I believe that in Thailand the heads of the army and police are far more independent when compare with their western counterparts.

So it's not enough to expect that when a Thai prime minister (of whatever party) says "Go and do it", that the army/police chiefs will necessarily obey orders to the letter. Today, Abhisit has told Anoupong to basically sort it out whereas the General has turned around and said 'not my business".

Clearly the police and the army are looking after their own interests first and you can expect them to act not until it is in their interests.

If Anoupong goes in after women and children, it is not going to do his career much good, and there is always the possibility of some liberal Human Rights commission sitting in the Hague for whom a third-world general slaughtering innocent civilians (and all caught on camera) would be meat and drink.

It's never back and white (or red and yellow come to that) in Thailand.

There is a big difference between going "in after women and children" and stopping protestors (of any colour) from entering parliament.

The army/police in Thailand seem to let the demonstrators do whatever they like, even though it is clearly stated that it is illegal.

The army showed yesterday that they could stop the protestors when they stopped them going to the "11 restricted locations", but then later in the day they let them do what they wanted.

They need to learn how do deal with protests - in a peaceful manner, but not letting the protestors do everything that they want.

Agree with what you say, they are all valid points. My take is that we shouldn't forget that the army and police have their own vested interests to protect and are probably not too concerned whether a street protest is technically within or outside the law. What they can't be seen to be doing is to rush into violent action against a bunch of women, children and old people when it will be relayed live around the world by CNN, and other news media. After all the bashing that Thailand has been taking recently, that's the last thing it needs. From reading many posts on here however, that's what many keyboard hawks are advocating. Keyboard warrioring is cheap of course, so thank goodness that cooler heads are prevailing for the moment and hopefully bloodshed can be avoided.

[traderjm]

Ahem.....boys, I really hate to bring this up, ya know, being as I'm supposed to be a "Thaksin apologist" n' all.....but I seem to remember all of you "experts" on the Redshirts were telling us (over three weeks ago) that the whole thing was a total failure. "They are not getting the numbers" "They will all go home as soon as the sticky rice and stinky fish runs out" "There are only demonstrating because they are being paid" What happened? They seem to be still there....in very large numbers. Guess the supply of sticky rice and stinky fish must have exceeded your estimates? They have not "won" anything yet that I can see ---other than high marks for determination, but then they are just

misinformed village idiots after all, who so far seem to be making all of our highly informed and vastly superior members look petty lame. Keep the theories coming gentlemen...if you predict enough things maybe with luck you can get something right. Still waiting on all the violence and bloodshed....maybe somebody will throw an empty coke can at the police or something...then victory can be yours. It was announced yesterday that the army was going to break up the protest at 10am.....within a very short time thousand more reds appeared, but no army? Could it be that the army just does not want to tackle this little problem....80% or more of the non-commissioned soldiers are probably the sons of redshirts...dear or dear, what to do... I suppose it all has to end sometime but the question is HOW?? Baht still up....Taiex up 9% in the last 3 weeks...investors are clearly in a blind panic....but hey maybe they don't read Thaivisa...

PS No apologies for Thaksin...don't even know the guy.... I like the PM though...smooth, polite, genteel, Oxford man--clean as a whistle..not a whiff of corruption anywhere near him. Looked cute in that Hitler outfit the Reds put on him....got to have a bit of levity in politics don't you think?

So in your subtle bashing of people oddly enough for simply expressing their opinions as you are doing.....I don't see you stating what the REDS have won or more importantly THEIR agenda is?

I think what you will find (I hope) is that the vast majority of people against the REDS are really against the leaders and their puppet master, NOT the rank and file members. Plus they are against their methods of making threats and making a mess of the financial engine of the country. Please save the Yellows this Yellows that, rhetoric I was against them in the Airport as well.

I would love to hear what the REDS are proposing the country can do to help them, I simply don't see what RED leaders have to offer other than bring back Mr. T?

[khunjamespittman]

bangkokpundit: If true that military is issuing ultimatumst, Abhisit should fire Anupong (not going 2 happen & yes there is an element of Schadenfreude)

Why is bangkokpundit allowed to post his opinions in the closed news forum. He is doing this often and gets to go unchallenged hiding under the cover of news.

Olease ban him from further opinion posts in the closed new forum.

[Jingthing]

bangkokpundit: If true that military is issuing ultimatumst, Abhisit should fire Anupong (not going 2 happen & yes there is an element of Schadenfreude)

Why is bangkokpundit allowed to post his opinions in the closed news forum. He is doing this often and gets to go unchallenged hiding under the cover of news.

Olease ban him from further opinion posts in the closed new forum.

Please let his comments stand. They are very interesting to read. Thank you.

[geriatrickid]

I have just read some of the best posts so far on the thread and I hope that they are not buried with the bashers childish comments.

Thai at Heart you laid out the GT200 case brilliantly. Very impressed.

Nuchanart stresses how Porntip (was Porntit a slip ) has lost all credibility with the fiasco. Perhaps this is why she has been uncharacteristically quiet of late. If she was in a western jurisdiction all of her cases would now be under review based on gross incompetence. This is what happens when a pathologist screws up big time. She revealed her bias with the GT200.

As an aside, I do not know what the rantings of the deranged bigots harping on Obama's origins have to do with this thread. The US President has a birth certificate issued and registered in Hawaii. It's been verified and yet, these wackos weigh in with their idiocy. However, it just demonstrates that they have it wrong on the Reds as well.

vicco Well said. Unfortunately, you may have bruised some of the experts egos. Please carry on.

[jdinasia]

bangkokpundit: If true that military is issuing ultimatumst, Abhisit should fire Anupong (not going 2 happen & yes there is an element of Schadenfreude)

Why is bangkokpundit allowed to post his opinions in the closed news forum. He is doing this often and gets to go unchallenged hiding under the cover of news.

Olease ban him from further opinion posts in the closed new forum.

Ummm he is being quoted as an expert blogger .. take it for what you want but it is TVF that is looking at bangkokpundit's site for almost instant updates. He isn't posting in the newsforum he is being quoted in the newsforum. If you can't see that (and who is making the posts ...) then ....

[stingray]

It would be interesting if the opinions of those that were murdered in the ''war on Drugs and the Tak Bai massacre and of course a prominent Muslim lawyer could voice them.

Indeed Thaksin had and it seems still has his own unique version of DEMOCRACY

In all of my twenty years here I had never seen such a despotic regime like Thaksins regime.

The truth along with honesty and concern for other were not endangered species they were extinct,

Indeed the current rhetoric and actions of the puppet leaders of the Red Shirt Brigade are proving that the exhumation of '' The truth, honesty and the concern for others'' must be re interred post haste forever under their brand of DEMOCRACY.

Good post siampolee. I first came here in 1995 and remember well the fear that Thaksin's premiership inculcated during 2004-2006. Good knows why anyone would want him back, unless of course they thought the 30baht health care scheme was of such great magnanimity that all other social, political, business and human rights abuses should be forgiven.

What's wrong with you sheople here? The point is there is an unofficial, military-installed gov't calling the shots. The reds want a fair and democratic election...regardless who wins.

Mate, the fact that you think Obama a "dictator(who is still illegally occupying the white house)" would seem to indicate that you have a little trouble conceptualizing how governments are installed anywhere in the world let alone here.

I saw on Fox TV, that many blacks threat to harm the whites, if they not vote for Obama, like blackmail. Many black lured around the citiy halls or malls where they done the votings in the idea to harm whites, if they not vote for Obama. Only one example: There was a white exsoldier who didnt' listen to the blacks and vote for Mc Cain. So soonest he walked out from the City Hall, or where ever they did the votes, the blacks want harm him, but he called finally 911, on his mobile, and the cops helped him to go home safetly. I would like to know how many similar stories like this happen in US and white peaple, specially older ones who can not defend their self, got blakchmailed, to change their votes. I'm not a racist, as i have black friends as well but was this correct?

[traderjm]

I find it amazing that all kinds of FARANG post on here there thoughts about a country that are guests in and they choose to live in IF they are not happy with the way things are done here in LOS be it by whatever colour shirts then prehaps they should return to there home countries and moan about there goverments.

What makes you assume that anybody farang that is living here is only a guest? As in being here for the short term? Many of the farang posters, have jobs, businesses, Thai employees and families and have a lot at stake as to what goes on. Plus many of us discuss these issues with our Thai wives and families and as such get insight that people NOT living here full time or NOT married to a Thai would not get.

I for one and happy to hear all points of view, whether is a RED apologist or a Yellow one... one should open their mind to hearing all points of view. Unlike you of course that appears to only want to hear what you want to hear or what opinions fits with what you want to believe. The world is not so RED and YELLOW you know??

[fxe1200]

If Thaksin was the PM and the protesters were against him, the body count was probably be in the triple digits already.

That is the main reason that he is NOT the PM now,

Do you have evidence of Thaksin ever using violence against protesters? Or is that simply a fantasy of yours.

Not protesters; but he commanded the killing of around 2500 drugsuspects, without giving them a chance of a trial.

[britmaveric]

If Thaksin was the PM and the protesters were against him, the body count was probably be in the triple digits already.

That is the main reason that he is NOT the PM now,

Do you have evidence of Thaksin ever using violence against protesters? Or is that simply a fantasy of yours.

Not protesters; but he commanded the killing of around 2500 drugsuspects, without giving them a chance of a trial.

See Military for your whinge!

[fxe1200]

If Thaksin was the PM and the protesters were against him, the body count was probably be in the triple digits already.

That is the main reason that he is NOT the PM now,

Do you have evidence of Thaksin ever using violence against protesters? Or is that simply a fantasy of yours.

Not protesters; but he commanded the killing of around 2500 drugsuspects, without giving them a chance of a trial.

See Military for your whinge!

And who was in charge of the Military, who was their supreme commander: Thaksin.

[britmaveric]

Military does it's own thing, and does not answer to the PM.