Aussie\thai Baby

[jayinoz]

My defacto partner (Thai girl- thai citizen) and I had a baby boy only 6 months ago in Aussie. She was in fact not approved for a Permanent VISA in Aussie due to medical reasons and we would have needed to fight this one in court. So we decided to move back to Thailand recently as I have been doing business over here for sometime any.

Therefore I am on a Business Visa yearly. Our Aussie son has overstayed his 30 day tourist entry. We went to immigration in Chiang Mai and they told us we have the option of 1) Doing the right thing and paying them an over stay fee + 1900bt pa for a family O Visa for him OR 2) Never worry about it until he is 15yo, as he does not need to pay any over stay charges until over the age of 15yo....

My thoughts naturally selected No 2 as the easiest option.... If my partner and child do return outside thailand with me in the future I do not think our child will have any hassles.

Yet reading other forums on dual citizenship it makes sense to make him a Thai citizen as well. At least he could legally own land and house, etc without all the farang rules. My partner really wants him to stay Aussie and fears he will lose his Aussie passport.

I know this is not the case- I am sure we can simply apply for a Thai Visa and even citizenship for him in Thailand... What do others advise? Aussie will allow my partner to reapply if her condition improves, if we wish, my guess is we will not wish. As we are both far more happy in Thailand.

Yet would be nice to visit family in Oz from time to time with my Aussie son. I feel he should travel on an Aussie Visa and return on a Thai Visa... Is this possible? Would Thai Immigration be suspicious not to see exit stamps from other countries....? Cheers

[Bastian]

your son is already a thai citizen, he became one automatically by being born to a thai mother, no need to apply for it. the only thing you need to apply for is a thai passport for him.

[7by7]

Thailand allows dual citizenship; both my wife and daughter have dual Thai/British citizenship. They use their Thai passports to enter and leave Thailand and their British passports to enter and leave the UK; no problems. (Just need to show both passports to the airline when checking in to keep them happy. One to show that you're in the country legally and the other to show you'll be let in at the other end.)

Whether Australia allows dual citizenship, I don't know for sure; but I'm sure I've read posts on here from people saying that it does.

However, as your son entered Thailand on his Australian passport he will be treated for immigration purposes as Australian; he cannot change this status while in Thailand. So, once you have his Thai passport you will need to regularise his status by leaving Thailand on his Australian passport and re-entering on his Thai one.

Thai, or any other country's, immigration will not be concerned about exit stamps from other countries, just whether he can legally enter Thailand or not.

I'm moving this to the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum, as I feel you will probably get more replies there.

[samran]

as he was born in Australia, he'll have to get his Thai birth certificate via the Thai embassy in canberra. His first Thai passport will have to be issued by the embassy, and he'll need to re-enter Thailand with that Thai passport to be considered Thai for immigration purposes.

[gburns57au]

Thailand allows dual citizenship; both my wife and daughter have dual Thai/British citizenship. They use their Thai passports to enter and leave Thailand and their British passports to enter and leave the UK; no problems. (Just need to show both passports to the airline when checking in to keep them happy. One to show that you're in the country legally and the other to show you'll be let in at the other end.)

Whether Australia allows dual citizenship, I don't know for sure; but I'm sure I've read posts on here from people saying that it does.

However, as your son entered Thailand on his Australian passport he will be treated for immigration purposes as Australian; he cannot change this status while in Thailand. So, once you have his Thai passport you will need to regularise his status by leaving Thailand on his Australian passport and re-entering on his Thai one.

Thai, or any other country's, immigration will not be concerned about exit stamps from other countries, just whether he can legally enter Thailand or not.

I'm moving this to the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum, as I feel you will probably get more replies there.

ahem!

[Mario2008]

I would choose for option 2 for now, as you will surely return to Australia before he turns 15. At that moment you have to apply for a Thai birthcertificate and a Thai passport at the embassy in Australia end when he returns to Thailand enter on the Thai passport.

(There might be a way to organise the birth certificate in Thailand itself through the foreign ministry, I know someone who was in the process for this, but don't have any details. The birth certificate would still come from the embassy in Australia, but you would apply at the foreign ministry, consular affairs).

Both countries don't have a problem with dual nationality.

[lopburi3]

As said option two and obtain Embassy birth certificate and Thai passport on a trip to Oz. There will not be any problem leaving Thailand but they may put the normal overstay stamp in his passport but there will not be any fine.

[jayinoz]

As said option two and obtain Embassy birth certificate and Thai passport on a trip to Oz. There will not be any problem leaving Thailand but they may put the normal overstay stamp in his passport but there will not be any fine.

No trip back to Aussie is anticipated for my son for several years... My girl would like him to have dual citizenship now. Some say we can simply goto the Births, Deaths and marriages dept and apply. Once he registered in the Family Book as place of residency then all is good- he is Thai (Except Condo). Gets a Thai ID when 15yo and Thai passport whenever we wish.

If he travels in the future i think in on Thai passport to Thailand- everywhere else in the world on Aussie passport.

Does anyone know the nearest Birth, Deaths place in Lamphun or Chiangmai. My guess he needs the Lamphun office, as the property is in lamphun.... Cheers

[samran]

As said option two and obtain Embassy birth certificate and Thai passport on a trip to Oz. There will not be any problem leaving Thailand but they may put the normal overstay stamp in his passport but there will not be any fine.

No trip back to Aussie is anticipated for my son for several years... My girl would like him to have dual citizenship now. Some say we can simply goto the Births, Deaths and marriages dept and apply. Once he registered in the Family Book as place of residency then all is good- he is Thai (Except Condo). Gets a Thai ID when 15yo and Thai passport whenever we wish.

If he travels in the future i think in on Thai passport to Thailand- everywhere else in the world on Aussie passport.

Does anyone know the nearest Birth, Deaths place in Lamphun or Chiangmai. My guess he needs the Lamphun office, as the property is in lamphun.... Cheers

no one in Thailand will issue him a birth certificate. No registry office in Thailand will issue a birth certificate for anyone born outside its boundries.

The Thai embassy in Canberra is responsible for issuing your son a Thai birth certificate, and they are the only ones who have juristiction to do so. Additionally, the birth certificates for overseas born Thai's are also physically different from ones issued in Thailand.

Fortunately, you can apply for the birth certificate from the embassy via mail. You'll have to contact them as to what documentation they'll need.

With this proof of Thai citizenship you'll be able to apply for a one year extension of stay in his Australian passports. I've never had one, but I believe that a year extension is available to former Thai citizens, or Thai citizens travelling on foreign passports. You'll need to check.

You won't be able to register him on the house registration though without his Thai passport however. Registration on the house registration book for overseas born Thai's requires the child to enter Thailand on their Thai passport and for the passport to be shown to the Ampur with the entry stamp showing the date of entry. One of the boxes they have to tick unfortunaely, having been all through this myself.

[jayinoz]

As said option two and obtain Embassy birth certificate and Thai passport on a trip to Oz. There will not be any problem leaving Thailand but they may put the normal overstay stamp in his passport but there will not be any fine.

No trip back to Aussie is anticipated for my son for several years... My girl would like him to have dual citizenship now. Some say we can simply goto the Births, Deaths and marriages dept and apply. Once he registered in the Family Book as place of residency then all is good- he is Thai (Except Condo). Gets a Thai ID when 15yo and Thai passport whenever we wish.

If he travels in the future i think in on Thai passport to Thailand- everywhere else in the world on Aussie passport.

Does anyone know the nearest Birth, Deaths place in Lamphun or Chiangmai. My guess he needs the Lamphun office, as the property is in lamphun.... Cheers

no one in Thailand will issue him a birth certificate. No registry office in Thailand will issue a birth certificate for anyone born outside its boundries.

The Thai embassy in Canberra is responsible for issuing your son a Thai birth certificate, and they are the only ones who have juristiction to do so. Additionally, the birth certificates for overseas born Thai's are also physically different from ones issued in Thailand.

Fortunately, you can apply for the birth certificate from the embassy via mail. You'll have to contact them as to what documentation they'll need.

With this proof of Thai citizenship you'll be able to apply for a one year extension of stay in his Australian passports. I've never had one, but I believe that a year extension is available to former Thai citizens, or Thai citizens travelling on foreign passports. You'll need to check.

You won't be able to register him on the house registration though without his Thai passport however. Registration on the house registration book for overseas born Thai's requires the child to enter Thailand on their Thai passport and for the passport to be shown to the Ampur with the entry stamp showing the date of entry. One of the boxes they have to tick unfortunaely, having been all through this myself.

This confuses me as most Thai people DO NOT have a Thai passport as they have never travelled outside their own country. Yet they are all on their house registration family book. It sounds like it maybe more complicated than anticipated than a short trip into the local provincial government dept. My girl will not believe me so i will take her anyway, so they can MAYBE tell her what needs to be done.

Or they may simply put him in the book- who knows sometimes they bypass the rules as cannot be bothered to explain correctly- happens often as u would know. He does not need a Thai Passport at this time.

Surely many girls have had babies overseas then not worked with their partner. headed home then had their baby registered as Thai. I have been advised that if she enters the provicial dept alone, states she does not know where i am, then they will take pity and list him in the book. Everything becomes more simplistic than applying here there and everywhere... So I plan to wait outside whilst she in the provincial unit, she will come out and tell me how she goes... I she confused then i will see if I can see if there is a tea money short cut.

Tea money got me a car and motorbike under NO entry VISA. Just extension stamps. I am sure they will accept tea money for this also... as with everything.

[samran]

This confuses me as most Thai people DO NOT have a Thai passport as they have never travelled outside their own country. Yet they are all on their house registration family book. It sounds like it maybe more complicated than anticipated than a short trip into the local provincial government dept. My girl will not believe me so i will take her anyway, so they can MAYBE tell her what needs to be done.

Most Thai people are born in Thailand, and have a Thai birth certificate issued by their locale they were born in. This is then taken to their home province/ampur and registered there within 15 days of birth. Thai is how they get on the house book.

Trust me, as a dual Thai/Australian citizen myself, born in Melbourne, I've been through the process. One of the things the definetly need to get an OVERSEAS born thai person on a house book is a Thai passport showing when they entered Thailand to take up residency.

Or they may simply put him in the book- who knows sometimes they bypass the rules as cannot be bothered to explain correctly- happens often as u would know. He does not need a Thai Passport at this time.

My experience is if they can't tick all the boxes they revert to potplants and tell you 'can not'.

Surely many girls have had babies overseas then not worked with their partner. headed home then had their baby registered as Thai. I have been advised that if she enters the provicial dept alone, states she does not know where i am, then they will take pity and list him in the book. Everything becomes more simplistic than applying here there and everywhere... So I plan to wait outside whilst she in the provincial unit, she will come out and tell me how she goes... I she confused then i will see if I can see if there is a tea money short cut.

Most Thai's with their kids born OS get them a Thai birth certificate and passport before they return. Those who don't often find themselves in limbo. Thai visa is full of people in visa limbo, unable to get their kids unrestricted rights to stay without initating the required paperwork back 'home'.

The thai birth certificate is actually the first document that gets you everthing else you need in Thailand document wise. The birth certifcate actually states your nationality as 'Thai' on it. With that one little word, everthing else is then possible.

Regardless of your abilities to get the child on the house book now, getting him a passport is another issue. He'll need that Australian issued Thai birth certificate when he applies for his first Thai passport. The Ampur will write on the back of the birth certificate, the circumstances in which he was entered onto the housebook.

Tea money got me a car and motorbike under NO entry VISA. Just extension stamps. I am sure they will accept tea money for this also... as with everything.

Sounds like you got diddled. Search TV, but I'm pretty sure you can buy a car on a tourist visa, no worries.

Anyway, i've managed to live the last decade in Thailand without paying a baht to any official that wasn't the normal government charge. It isn't hard if you know what the rules are.

Edited May 31, 2010 by samran

[jayinoz]

In regards to Birth Cert from Thai Consulate in Aussie I guess that is a must do... As the local lamphun does not have a clue, as per normal. Immigration in CMai state we need to pay a fee pa, Yer right. I ask what if we do not you cannot charge him an overstay fee anyway. The Officer said we will take away his Aussie passport- I said you cannot as he Aussie and not breaking any laws. Immigration state he needs to decide to be Aussie or Thai on his 18th birthday- I could not help yet to say that is pure and utter crap- you have no idea and it your job to know... Immigration said he cannot be a dual citizen, I said yes he can, they said we know more than you. So we left as I needed to calm myself down before exploding. I stated to my partner that Immigration do not have a clue. We will simply get the Birth Certificate from Thai Consulate in Aussie then apply for Thai passport.

Many Thai offices say doffering things as they know very little I believe. This confuses my partner and these differing offices cause conflict between us being my main issue. As I spend hours on the Net and calling to find the truth then all the offices say completely different. AS THEY DO NOT KNOW. I wish they would simply say- I do not know but will look into it for you. Pretending to know is a major problem in Thai- after many years I have learnt to take everyones word with a grain of salt.

In terms of tea money it was needed to purchase a car. As I was not on any Visa. You need to get a residency certicate from Immigration, get the proper Visa, etc. Or pay 2000bt to bypass it all- so seemed worth it to me. Whether I could of purchased on current Visa I was told no- whether I was diddled depends on your point of view I guess. Pay the money for Express service- all performed in 2 hours without hassle. Or muck around for days or weeks getting all they require. The 2000bt was worth it in my mind. They called it Express VIP service. It was tea money. Plus I did not need to pay for all the registation fees, etc. So I saved money in my mind. Time & money.

Anyway in terms of my son- birth cert from Canberra required. My son will be in Visa Limbo for awhile as I do not see the urgency of it- maybe just to get my misses off my back.Thanks for all that gave advice.

[samran]

In regards to Birth Cert from Thai Consulate in Aussie I guess that is a must do... As the local lamphun does not have a clue, as per normal. Immigration in CMai state we need to pay a fee pa, Yer right. I ask what if we do not you cannot charge him an overstay fee anyway. The Officer said we will take away his Aussie passport- I said you cannot as he Aussie and not breaking any laws. Immigration state he needs to decide to be Aussie or Thai on his 18th birthday- I could not help yet to say that is pure and utter crap- you have no idea and it your job to know... Immigration said he cannot be a dual citizen, I said yes he can, they said we know more than you. So we left as I needed to calm myself down before exploding. I stated to my partner that Immigration do not have a clue. We will simply get the Birth Certificate from Thai Consulate in Aussie then apply for Thai passport.

Many Thai offices say doffering things as they know very little I believe. This confuses my partner and these differing offices cause conflict between us being my main issue. As I spend hours on the Net and calling to find the truth then all the offices say completely different. AS THEY DO NOT KNOW. I wish they would simply say- I do not know but will look into it for you. Pretending to know is a major problem in Thai- after many years I have learnt to take everyones word with a grain of salt.

In terms of tea money it was needed to purchase a car. As I was not on any Visa. You need to get a residency certicate from Immigration, get the proper Visa, etc. Or pay 2000bt to bypass it all- so seemed worth it to me. Whether I could of purchased on current Visa I was told no- whether I was diddled depends on your point of view I guess. Pay the money for Express service- all performed in 2 hours without hassle. Or muck around for days or weeks getting all they require. The 2000bt was worth it in my mind. They called it Express VIP service. It was tea money. Plus I did not need to pay for all the registation fees, etc. So I saved money in my mind. Time & money.

Anyway in terms of my son- birth cert from Canberra required. My son will be in Visa Limbo for awhile as I do not see the urgency of it- maybe just to get my misses off my back.Thanks for all that gave advice.

As you've discovered, they don't know the rules, they just try to tick the boxes. Trick is to know the rules, come with your ducks all lined up in a row, and they can't touch you. Rule no 1 for living in Thailand.

The mistake that many people make that if you can slip a wad of cash under the table you can get anything done. In most cases it isn't needed, but I digress. What people do think though is that some things, like access to Thai nationality, are easily corruptable. Fact of the matter is that it isn't, and it is one of the key areas that the powers that be protect keenly.

Fortunately, for you son, he is eligible for it. Simple things to remember to get these ducks lined up in a row are:

1) Thai birth certificate from Canberra

2) Thai passport issued in Canberra

3) Enter Thailand on Thai passport

4) Register at Ampur on the housebook with BC and Thai passport in hand.

It isn't difficult.

For the purposes of what you need to do now (getting your son a long term visa on his aussie passport), the Thai BC from canberra should be enough for them to give him a 1 year visa no worries.

As for dual nationality, for him, it is totally legal. Many people confuse the law by thinking that at age 18 they must make a choice. The law actually says that age 20 they have the option, for one year, of giving up Thai nationality if they so wish. There is no penalty if they don't. I'm in my 30's an happily flit between my Thai and Aussie PP's.

All the best with the paperwork.

Edited June 4, 2010 by samran

[Mario2008]

Thai Ministry Foreign Affairs FAQ about Thai passports:

Can I apply for a Thai e-Passport if I am already holding a foreign Passport?

-Yes, if you are a Thai national, you may apply for a Thai e-Passport. However, many countries will not recognize dual citizenship. Therefore, you may be required to give up other nationalities before you can apply for a Passport from that country.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/473.php?id=3179