Thai Forces Use Tear Gas, Water Cannon Against Protesters

[Sunderland]

What's Abhisit doing now?

Latest odds in from Ladbrokes:

8-11 He's hiding under a table sobbing uncontrollably.

3-1 He's at the cinema watching a movie with Suthep.

5-1 He's involved in heated discussions with members of the armed forces and police.

7-1 He's in a taxi on the way to the airport.

10-1 He's hiding under the stage at Rajaprasong, ready to jump out at midnight and shout, "Surprise!" ten minutes after it has already been revealed on Twitter, Facebook and BBC that he is going to do this.

25-1 He's on the phone to Thaksin asking if he has a spare room in Dubai.

1,000,000-1 He's coming up with a good plan to govern the country.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Sunderland

[Deeral]

THe Thai govt is showing it's true colors now.

Closing web sites and TV channels..........

increasing the powers of the military

All this is indicative of how the govt. has to rely on the support of the military to stay in power. the usual civil law enforcement agency - the police cannot be relied upon by the current govt as much as they would like.

THis is not the behavior of a healthy democratic, constitutional government.

so long has this culture prevails it will allow populist the likes of Thaksin to garner support from those who are hard done by or ignored by the "establishment" in Thailand - they painting themselves into a corner.

[dobadoy]

I don't know. Perhaps you could ask the families of the 3000+ people murdered by Thaksin without charge, arrest or conviction in his so-called 'war on drugs'.

The "War on Drugs" has nothing to do with this although i have no sympathy for Drug dealers, Dead or Alive!

For you to mention that as an answer to my previous statement shows that your right, you don't know!

the fact that you think 3000 people murdered without charge, arrest or conviction were drug dealers says a lot about what you think about what it means to live in a free, fair and democratic society. It has EVERYTHING to do with this.

[Sunderland]

...get off your sofa! Have any of you Chang fueled EXPERTS lifted a finger to help (either side)? Brave Farangs you lot...I've been off with a shield and a sword to fight for the King and the good people of Thailand, tired, hot but Proud to be a resident of this Great Country...PINK FOREVER!

Red shirts BLOW.

I think the majority of humans on this board would agree that you've been mixing yaa baa with your Chang, marra.

[Sunderland]

THe Thai govt is showing it's true colors now.

Closing web sites and TV channels

increasing the powers of the military

All this is indicative of how the govt. has to rely on the support of the military to stay in power. the usual civil law enforcement agency - the police cannot be relied upon by the current govt as much as they would like.

THis is not the behavior of a healthy democratic, constitutional government.

so long has this culture prevails it will allow populist the likes of Thaksin to garner support from those who are hard done by or ignored by the "establishment" in Thailand - they painting themselves into a corner.

I was very impressed with those measures. I wouldn't leave this government in charge of babysitting 1 child, let alone govern a country.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Sunderland

[hunglikea]

I guarantee you none of the people who are supporting the demagogue have actually tried to run a company in an industry he decided belonged to him. The man is pure evil.

I would hazard a guess that most of these people are retired and don't actually care what happens to anyone other than themselves. Anybody who was actually trying to work and be responsible during his reign of terror learned very quickly that Thaksin stood for one thing and one thing only, himself.

Anyone he helped was completely incidental to that cause. His return would be a disaster for this great land.

Glad to see this perspective coming out. About time there was more people who remember the reality of Thaksin' proto-dictatorial regime. Thailand and Thais have enjoyed far more freedoms since 2006. Anyone who denies this is either ignorant or blind.

No we just have a different opinion from you. Many of us who didn't particularly appreciate Thaksin at the time think back fondly to the years 2002-2005 fondly and think it was a better time for Thailand than the post-coup fiasco.

Fair enough. Could you elaborate in what ways?

Was it: 3000+ shot dead in the streets without charge, arrest or conviction?

The escalation of troubles in the south?

The restricted freedom of the press?

The 30baht health care scheme was good, (a good idea in principle, though it didn't quite work in practice); has that been rescinded? No.

Maybe it was all the credit cards that people on low-income were encouraged to get, which certainly increased domestic spending, but alas ended up in Thaksin and his proxy successors like Samak having to write off lots of unpayable farmer debts.

Or maybe it was the 10 million people who ABSTAINED in the last election for which Thaksin run with no oppostion parties. What democrat holds an election with no opposition to run against, and STILL only gets 2/3 majority.

Or maybe you DON'T like the fact that Abhisit has extended free education to the entire population from age six to 18?

Maybe you don't like the fact that in an attempt to be reasonable, he agreed to a compromise between 15 days and 1yr 9 months to 9 months on house dissolution.

Maybe you liked Thaksin's way of doing things better. No compromise, no negotiation, extra-judicial killings, and refusing to speak to the press about important matters of state for over 2 months because his astrological zodiac told him it was ill-starred (remembe that one in your fond memories of Thaksin?).

I'm not protesting your right to hold such views. I'm just dumbstruck at why you would hold them.

Well said!

:D :D

[dobadoy]

Fair enough. Could you elaborate in what ways?

Was it: 3000+ shot dead in the streets without charge, arrest or conviction?

The escalation of troubles in the south?

The restricted freedom of the press?

The 30baht health care scheme was good, (a good idea in principle, though it didn't quite work in practice); has that been rescinded? No.

Maybe it was all the credit cards that people on low-income were encouraged to get, which certainly increased domestic spending, but alas ended up in Thaksin and his proxy successors like Samak having to write off lots of unpayable farmer debts.

Or maybe it was the 10 million people who ABSTAINED in the last election for which Thaksin run with no oppostion parties. What democrat holds an election with no opposition to run against, and STILL only gets 2/3 majority.

Or maybe you DON'T like the fact that Abhisit has extended free education to the entire population from age six to 18?

Maybe you don't like the fact that in an attempt to be reasonable, he agreed to a compromise between 15 days and 1yr 9 months to 9 months on house dissolution.

Maybe you liked Thaksin's way of doing things better. No compromise, no negotiation, extra-judicial killings, and refusing to speak to the press about important matters of state for over 2 months because his astrological zodiac told him it was ill-starred (remembe that one in your fond memories of Thaksin?).

I'm not protesting your right to hold such views. I'm just dumbstruck at why you would hold them.

Many Thai people and farang preferred the pre-coup years to the post-coup years. Many believed that the coup was a mistake at the time and still do. People are allowed to disagree.

Of course you are allowed to disageree. That's the point of having a forum. It would be nice if you could give some reasoned argument to the points above which explain why you disagree, though.

[animatic]

One astute person pointed out,

that they only gained back what they had yesterday morning,

but at the loss of a great BIG slice of their allegedly peaceful image.

So they army let off some tear gas and water and took a few hits on the shields with clubs.

And then backed away.

The Red shirts were seen:

Dragging soldiers from trucks and beating them.

Invading government installations a 2nd day in a row,

this time with greatly increased violence.

And yet they STILL DIDN'T GET,

that long sought after image of the

Thai Army killing and beating poor defenseless farmers.

So was this some 'victory' for the reds showing the world that their

violence is going to come up just for something like a TV station being closed?

Oh my Buddha they closed out TV... beat someone, break in, attack then army.

It's for democracy!!!!!!!!

And what's their next tactical decision,

putting monks in the front line... versus police women...

wow what a victory for PR.

Oh what a might VICTORY for the cause... they have LOST.

Edited April 9, 2010 by animatic

[TITI1971]

THe Thai govt is showing it's true colors now.

Closing web sites and TV channels..........

increasing the powers of the military

Wich color... the color of money power with a puppets under as PM ?

[rainman]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

[rainman]

putting monks in the front line... versus police women...

Dude, you've got to drop your double standards.

For days you're saying that the red shirts are violent terrorists and insurgents, but you don't complain against Abhisit's decision to put WOMEN in the front line. If they're so dangerous and violent, why is Abhisit risking the lives of innocent women?

Doesn't make sense to me. However, you DO complain against monks being put in front of women.

Edited April 9, 2010 by rainman

[KireB]

The Red shirts were seen:

Dragging soldiers from trucks and beating them.

Invading government installations a 2nd day in a row,

this time with greatly increased violence.

And yet they STILL DIDN'T GET,

that long sought after image of the

Thai Army killing and beating poor defenseless farmers.

Well put and I can only hope you're right!

This whole thing has become a PR-revolution.

[animatic]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

Talk about using a light hand and letting them get more violent,

but not provoke world news violent attacks on them.

Kid gloves even with some tear gas.

The violent ones were in RED.

Talk about how corrupt that police general is...

He was seen on the job ignoring his duty to act.

[dobadoy]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

I agree with rainman here. The PR battle over violence has now been replaced by the PR battle over who is in charge of the country. All around me are ordinary Thai people who supported Abhisit's compromising attitude last week but now look at him contemptuously as either lacking courage or lacking power. Don't underestimate the significance of what happened today.

Unless he pulls off a masterstroke real soon, I fear the Reds have won this battle. I fear more what happens after that.

[rainman]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

Talk about using a light hand and letting them get more violent,

but not provoke world news violent attacks on them.

Kid gloves even with some tear gas.

The violent ones were in RED.

Talk about how corrupt that police general is...

He was seen on the job ignoring his duty to act.

A light hand? You're hilarious!

The police and army teargassed and smoked themselves, because the wind was blowing in their direction. Even the TNN News reporter mentioned it and couldn't believe it. After that, they ran away. And it ended with the police chiefs negotiating with the red shirt leaders, which Abhisit has ordered to be arrested "on sight". However, the police weren't following his orders, clearly, as they were chatting and laughing with the red shirt leaders.

So really, the "light hand" is more like "no hand". Or do you have another explanation?

[4223rhodes]

Fair enough. Could you elaborate in what ways?

Was it: 3000+ shot dead in the streets without charge, arrest or conviction?

The escalation of troubles in the south?

The restricted freedom of the press?

The 30baht health care scheme was good, (a good idea in principle, though it didn't quite work in practice); has that been rescinded? No.

Maybe it was all the credit cards that people on low-income were encouraged to get, which certainly increased domestic spending, but alas ended up in Thaksin and his proxy successors like Samak having to write off lots of unpayable farmer debts.

Or maybe it was the 10 million people who ABSTAINED in the last election for which Thaksin run with no oppostion parties. What democrat holds an election with no opposition to run against, and STILL only gets 2/3 majority.

Or maybe you DON'T like the fact that Abhisit has extended free education to the entire population from age six to 18?

Maybe you don't like the fact that in an attempt to be reasonable, he agreed to a compromise between 15 days and 1yr 9 months to 9 months on house dissolution.

Maybe you liked Thaksin's way of doing things better. No compromise, no negotiation, extra-judicial killings, and refusing to speak to the press about important matters of state for over 2 months because his astrological zodiac told him it was ill-starred (remembe that one in your fond memories of Thaksin?).

I'm not protesting your right to hold such views. I'm just dumbstruck at why you would hold them.

Many Thai people and farang preferred the pre-coup years to the post-coup years. Many believed that the coup was a mistake at the time and still do. People are allowed to disagree.

Of course you are allowed to disageree. That's the point of having a forum. It would be nice if you could give some reasoned argument to the points above which explain why you disagree, though.

I'll just give you one now. Censorship. It was not good under Thaksin. But even Supinya, sued by Thaksin, has intimated that the censorship of the coup-makers and their puppet Abhisit is far more dangerous than that of Thaksin. Economically and politically the country was headed in a far better direction under Thaksin than under the Sondhi-Abhisit administrations. Perhaps not a good direction, but far better nonetheless. I am sensitive to your criticism of Abhisit for making no attempts at prosecuting anyone for any of the drug killings, not one. Of course, you could hold the Thaksin administration accountable as well, but Abhisit was in the perfect position to tackle this but sadly lacked the balls. Surprise, surprise!

[saintofsilence]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

Talk about using a light hand and letting them get more violent,

but not provoke world news violent attacks on them.

Kid gloves even with some tear gas.

The violent ones were in RED.

Talk about how corrupt that police general is...

He was seen on the job ignoring his duty to act.

A light hand? You're hilarious!

The police and army teargassed and smoked themselves, because the wind was blowing in their direction. Even the TNN News reporter mentioned it and couldn't believe it. After that, they ran away. And it ended with the police chiefs negotiating with the red shirt leaders, which Abhisit has ordered to be arrested "on sight". However, the police weren't following his orders, clearly, as they were chatting and laughing with the red shirt leaders.

So really, the "light hand" is more like "no hand". Or do you have another explanation?

He may have given orders to arrest but you forget to mention where he said he wanted no violence, what else could he do? I bet you would be sqawking if they did use violence and shed blood.

Edited April 9, 2010 by saintofsilence

[animatic]

putting monks in the front line... versus police women...

Dude, you've got to drop your double standards.

For days you're saying that the red shirts are violent terrorists and insurgents, but you don't complain against Abhisit's decision to put WOMEN in the front line. If they're so dangerous and violent, why is Abhisit risking the lives of innocent women?

Doesn't make sense to me. However, you DO complain against monks being put in front of women.

This the best your spinning brain pan can come up with LOL.

Reds herd somet monks in front.

Oh dear can bust past monks, even crooked monks,

Police put POLICE WOMEN in front... Monks can't put hands on Women.

Perfect stalemat. Women can just keep walking forward an monks have to back away.

ROTFLOL... Oh the violence of it all!

Can't do better than call that brilliance a double standard... LOL

And how can you imagine it was Abhisits idea to put the women cops up front.

I would love to meet the mind that DID think this one up... LOL.

You can't make this stuff up, not even in Hollywierd.

rainboy your all wet.

[rainman]

You're dodging my question. If the red shirt protesters are so violent as you've been claiming for the past days, why is it that Abhisit is putting innocement WOMEN in the front line and potentially in harm's way?

[rogerdee123]

One astute person pointed out,

that they only gained back what they had yesterday morning,

but at the loss of a great BIG slice of their allegedly peaceful image.

So they army let off some tear gas and water and took a few hits on the shields with clubs.

And then backed away.

The Red shirts were seen:

Dragging soldiers from trucks and beating them.

Invading government installations a 2nd day in a row,

this time with greatly increased violence.

And yet they STILL DIDN'T GET,

that long sought after image of the

Thai Army killing and beating poor defenseless farmers.

So was this some 'victory' for the reds showing the world that their

violence is going to come up just for something like a TV station being closed?

Oh my Buddha they closed out TV... beat someone, break in, attack then army.

It's for democracy!!!!!!!!

And what's their next tactical decision,

putting monks in the front line... versus police women...

wow what a victory for PR.

Oh what a might VICTORY for the cause... they have LOST.

very good point

[rogerdee123]

You're dodging my question. If the red shirt protesters are so violent as you've been claiming for the past days, why is it that Abhisit is putting innocement WOMEN in the front line and potentially in harm's way?

They are cops .... and besides everyone is innocent .... or is it everyone is guilty? John Locke or Thomas Hobbs?

[Old Man River]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

I agree with rainman here. The PR battle over violence has now been replaced by the PR battle over who is in charge of the country. All around me are ordinary Thai people who supported Abhisit's compromising attitude last week but now look at him contemptuously as either lacking courage or lacking power. Don't underestimate the significance of what happened today.

Unless he pulls off a masterstroke real soon, I fear the Reds have won this battle. I fear more what happens after that.

That is my take on it as well.

I still don't see Thaksin coming back in though. He remains a threat to those that many in the military would give their lives for.

[animatic]

what if Thaksin really is dieing and can't control them,

Yingluk can't take the reins strongly enough,

and suddenly Weng and Jakrapob are running the show...

Street revolutions are historically notorious for spinning out of control...

Ask the ghosts of D'anton, Robespierre and Marais...

You meant Jatuporn didn't you? Jakrapob has been surprisingly quiet.

Jakrapob is hiding in Cambodia, by most reports,

but if the reds win via violence he could likely come back,

and he and Weng are peas in a pod.

[dobadoy]

I am sensitive to your criticism of Abhisit for making no attempts at prosecuting anyone for any of the drug killings, not one. Of course, you could hold the Thaksin administration accountable as well, but Abhisit was in the perfect position to tackle this but sadly lacked the balls. Surprise, surprise!

:D

Oops. I made the silly mistake that you actually might have a reasoned opinion. Instead, I see you are just here to spread disinformation, by totally misrepresenting my views and making a ridiculuous statement that Abhisit had any possible chance of pursuing Thaksin's hired killers from 2003.

Ok, troll away. I'll save my breath for those that actually want to show why they support thaksin with arguments. You only discredit further the very view you are trying to support.

Bye bye

Edited April 9, 2010 by dobadoy

[Old Man River]

what if Thaksin really is dieing and can't control them,

Yingluk can't take the reins strongly enough,

and suddenly Weng and Jakrapob are running the show...

Street revolutions are historically notorious for spinning out of control...

Ask the ghosts of D'anton, Robespierre and Marais...

You meant Jatuporn didn't you? Jakrapob has been surprisingly quiet.

Jakrapob is hiding in Cambodia, by most reports,

but if the reds win via violence he could likely come back,

and he and Weng are peas in a pod.

Jakrapob is much more dangerous. Comparatively, Weng is a lightweight. I am waiting for Mingwan though. I need a good laugh.

[animatic]

You're dodging my question. If the red shirt protesters are so violent as you've been claiming for the past days, why is it that Abhisit is putting innocement WOMEN in the front line and potentially in harm's way?

Now you are just being sexist.

No points.

Besides women in combat gear are backed up by men in combat gear.

And I have seen some mean ass Thai ladies beating on their men successfully.

Come on more straws to grasp at, till you're drip dry.

[dobadoy]

The only person that has lost is Abhisit.

- He banned the TV station PTV, yet it's back up against his will.

- He issued nearly 30 arrest warrants for red shirt leaders, yet they're seen on national television chatting and even laughing with high ranking police offers.

Talk about losing face.

I agree with rainman here. The PR battle over violence has now been replaced by the PR battle over who is in charge of the country. All around me are ordinary Thai people who supported Abhisit's compromising attitude last week but now look at him contemptuously as either lacking courage or lacking power. Don't underestimate the significance of what happened today.

Unless he pulls off a masterstroke real soon, I fear the Reds have won this battle. I fear more what happens after that.

That is my take on it as well.

I still don't see Thaksin coming back in though. He remains a threat to those that many in the military would give their lives for.

My fear is not so much Thaksin coming back - I agree that is highly unlikely. My fear is that there are at least as many people of a different coloured shirt persuasion - backed by their own army of toughs, lest anyone forget - that will not stand idly by even if Abhisit does concede defeat.

House dissolution will be the start of bigger troubles, not the resolution of the current ones. That's why, IMHO, Anupong and whoever else is pulling strings really need to get a grip and stop pussy footing around.

Maybe the fix is in, and they've already agreed what's going to happen next, but I'd bet you the few satangs left in my Bangkok Bank bank account that if Abhisit dissolves the house you will see a military coup sooner rather than later. It could be pave the way to peace or not, depending on whether the military keep power long enough to put in place the mechanisms for a proper election. If not (and reasonable unlikely), we are heading for harder times down the road.

Edited April 9, 2010 by dobadoy

[animatic]

what if Thaksin really is dieing and can't control them,

Yingluk can't take the reins strongly enough,

and suddenly Weng and Jakrapob are running the show...

Street revolutions are historically notorious for spinning out of control...

Ask the ghosts of D'anton, Robespierre and Marais...

You meant Jatuporn didn't you? Jakrapob has been surprisingly quiet.

Jakrapob is hiding in Cambodia, by most reports,

but if the reds win via violence he could likely come back,

and he and Weng are peas in a pod.

Jakrapob is much more dangerous. Comparatively, Weng is a lightweight. I am waiting for Mingwan though. I need a good laugh.

Ah yes The Mini-me Minister of Refinance!

[xenomorph]

Here is the cover of a recent Red magazine:

(courtesy of 2Bangkok!)

The fate of Czar Nicholas II and his family is frequently referred to in Red publications. They say that it paved the way toward Democracy.

Let's hope that it doesn't take 72 years of dictatorship to 'pave the way toward Democracy' in Thailand too.

Of course, I do believe that the leftists in the Red movement are just being used by Thaksin. When he gets back into power, they will be discarded as tools that are no longer needed. (Just as all this talk about democracy will be discarded).

Or maybe they say "Thank you for the financing, you idiot!" to Thaksin and hijack the whole thing, leaving him out in the cold.

Edited April 9, 2010 by xenomorph

[rainman]

You're dodging my question. If the red shirt protesters are so violent as you've been claiming for the past days, why is it that Abhisit is putting innocement WOMEN in the front line and potentially in harm's way?

Now you are just being sexist.

No points.

Besides women in combat gear are backed up by men in combat gear.

And I have seen some mean ass Thai ladies beating on their men successfully.

Come on more straws to grasp at, till you're drip dry.

Okay, let's take your point of view then that the women are no less vulnerable than the men against supposed violent crowds. Why are you criticizing the monks then? After all, the police are armed, and the monks are not.

Whatever way you spin it, you know you don't make sense and you don't have a point.