Victim Of Credit Card Fraud

[RHCP]

Please bear me out.

I unfortunately became another victim of credit card fraud last week here in Thailand.

I don't want to name the credit card company directly (but it is not part of the Visa or MasterCard network).

I live in a condo where all residents' post goes to a central office before distribution to each tower. Last Sunday, it was alleged by the credit card firm that someone purporting to be me rang on the previous Thursday to say that my card had got lost and requested the issue of a new card to the same billing address but with a request to change the mobile phone number. The credit card company stated that a new card was authorized for issue after all standard security questions were successfully answered including additional specific questions when a new card is requested. The card was duly issued and delivered by a messenger the next day and handed to a junior office staff member of my condo who signed for the package. Moving on first, subsequent CCTV evidence obtained using the data of fraudulent transactions pretty well proved that this new card was intercepted by a new Thai male Office Manager of my condo who had only been working 2 weeks. I had never seen this individual before but 2 senior managers of the condo identified him from the CCTV images. He had told his boss that he felt ill and asked to go home at lunchtime. After that the spending spree started. Strangely and suspiciously the card wasn't used during the daytime of the following day last Saturday until the early evening. My spending habit with this card is normally during the daytime on weekends which made me very suspicious about why he didn't use the card until the evening as if being tipped off that it was safe to continue using the card.

It was only on the morning of the next day that I discovered the fraud after my card was rejected at Tesco check-out. My wife and I then went to the Police Station to report the fraud. At that time I had no idea who the culprit was.

On the Monday a fraud investigator of the credit card company called me to go over the story. She commented that she found it strange how the impostor passed security as one of the questions that is required to be answered before issuing a new card are details of my last transaction and it came across as if she was suspecting it was me that called. This transaction would only have been known by me and call center staff as it would not appear until my next statement, so ruling out anyone intercepting details of it on a statement. It is assumed by me that the Office Manager had previously looked for any residents' post of the credit card firm in question and perhaps noticed my last statement that was posted in the second half of March. My theory is that he noted my name and address and then, and this is the most worrying part, possibly got in touch with a contact within the credit card company.

The fraud investigator also wanted to speak with the member of staff of my condo who signed for the card the previous Friday but she was on leave so the investigator spoke to this Office Manager. He gave some bullshit story that the post was distributed to my private post-box but the CCTV images at the time in question easily disproved this. This Office Manager also contacted my wife at home after he had spoken with the fraud investigator saying not to worry as the credit card firm always reimburses customers, thus making out that he knew the system very well and more than likely had committed the same type of crime before. I also believe that he was trying to fish for any information that might alert anyone to his involvement. My wife did mention that we had reported it to the police the previous day which may have unsettled him.

By Monday evening it was becoming apparent who stole the card with on-site CCTV evidence and armed with the obtained police report the 2 senior managers of my condo along with myself and wife got access to CCTV evidence this past Tuesday at a couple of merchants involved which confirmed to the 2 senior managers that it was the Office Manager. Unfortunately he failed to turn up for work and had already done a runner before we could get the police to make an arrest.

Anyway the good news is that the credit card firm has now cancelled all these fraudulent transactions from my account as they realized that I was totally innocent. However they want me to go to the police again along with management of my condo to report the CCTV identification, the name and ID number of this Office Manager before they themselves follow up. They claim that I am obliged to do this and without doing it they would have no authority to involve the police. This has really made my Thai wife angry since she feels that I have suffered enough with the stress, subsequent poor health, time wasted, efforts already made and expense of running around plus having already reported the fraud to the police. We also can't understand why they claim to not have sufficient powers to follow up. In addition, since I don't know this Office Manager I would be putting myself at risk if it was subsequently found that the CCTV images were someone else, unlikely as it is in the circumstances. Do you think the credit card firm are being unreasonable and lazy?

Now turning to the call center staff. Despite reassurances from the credit card company I am not totally convinced that their security system can prevent any dishonesty within the company involving their customers. I am still very suspicious about whether this Office Manager was working in liaison with a contact in the call center. The call center individual involved, as informed by another staff, had been working at the company for quite a while and who knows whether he was over time able to identify any security weaknesses in the processes. The company maintains that a credit card gang was involved but I'm not totally convinced. Any thoughts on insider involvement?

I have demanded compensation on the basis of poor security in delivering the card to me and my belief, although without any evidence, that the company has inherent security lapses within their call center but they have refused to offer me anything. I guess this being Thailand it was always going to be unlikely. I have threatened to contact the head office in the States but not sure if this will get me anywhere as the operations in Thailand will just deny any claims I make. Should I still pursue compensation?

Sorry for the lengthy report. Any comments relating to my experiences would be much appreciated.

[Soutpeel]

I was actually reading this with sympathy, until the last bit....sue somebody, just let it go and move on....you are not in Kansas Toto...

[clinique]

sorry but you are not in the real world now,,

this is the wild west ,,or east,,

ALL credit cards / any cards MUST be collected by YOU at a bank branch/ Credit card company.

ent by courier foryour signature ONLY.. actually this is standard practice,,,so i find the whole story abit hard to beleive..???

and if it was acontact within the CC company why are YOU the ONLY victim..??

IF the CC co has cancelled all the fraudulent tansactions,, get on wit your life,, going to court here will be 10 years min..

[clinique]

sorry, forgot -

1)is your wife Thai ???

2) who - appart from you - had any knowledge of your last trandaction,,

logic really ?? trace the steps - you will find the answer..

[sibeymai]

The company has not held you responsible for the fraudulent charges and you want to sue them ? On what basis....personal pain and suffering ? You are joking, right ?

The credit card company should sue the condo for allowing you to live there and counter-sue you for applying for a credit card. If neither occurred they would not have suffered the loss.

Edited April 9, 2010 by sibeymai

[NADTATIDA1]

Can of worms...and some of them could be closer to home than you might think.

[jazzbo]

The card in question was not part of the Visa or Master Card network but is accepted at TescoLotus (AmEx is not accepted at TescoL) TescoLotus own branded credit cards are Visa network -- so what card is he talking about?

[RHCP]

Well I'm really disappointed by these responses so far and makes me wonder why I bothered wasting my time posting on this TV forum with the various insinuations made about me and particularly about stereotyping my wife of many years who none of you know, added to the odd factual inaccuracy.

This is a GENUINE STORY with much evidence so if you have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to say then don't post. Perhaps I would be better off using another forum where I won't be subject to such treatment and ridicule.

One point I do accept is pursuing any compensation in this country is futile but you must understand my initial anger. Ultimately I will just have to let it go.

[jazzbo]

I read in detail your post -- did not question any fact as presented. However, if you do not say which credit card it is so others can become aware of the possible lapse in security procedures how can one gain from your experience?

[GuestHouse]

I have two credit cards on UK banks, I only need to demonstrate that I take reasonable care of the security of my cards to be fully protected under the UK credit laws - no matter where I and the cards are.

It's a no brainer, why would anyone sign any agreement that did not offer this level of fraud protection?

Hang on, the OP wasn't so stupid as to get a local Thai credit card was he.....?

Surely not?!

Edited April 10, 2010 by GuestHouse

[simpathy]

didnt read all,

how did thief know answer to security ?s

[Soutpeel]

Well I'm really disappointed by these responses so far and makes me wonder why I bothered wasting my time posting on this TV forum with the various insinuations made about me and particularly about stereotyping my wife of many years who none of you know, added to the odd factual inaccuracy.

This is a GENUINE STORY with much evidence so if you have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to say then don't post. Perhaps I would be better off using another forum where I won't be subject to such treatment and ridicule.

One point I do accept is pursuing any compensation in this country is futile but you must understand my initial anger. Ultimately I will just have to let it go.

You have posted this story on an open forum, so therefore you have to accept the good with the bad, by posting this you have incited people to respond and this is what has happened, you can't tell people not to post ......

If you posted TV to look for sympathy, just a brief look at any of the forum's will give you an idea of the types of response you were going to get.

[theoldgit]

The card in question was not part of the Visa or Master Card network but is accepted at TescoLotus (AmEx is not accepted at TescoL) TescoLotus own branded credit cards are Visa network -- so what card is he talking about?

Actually Tesco Lotus do accept Amex.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Hackneyed story. Ask questions closer to home perhaps?

[CWMcMurray]

I would say that you are pretty lucky the way things worked out and should not be thinking about suing anyone.

It appears that the credit card company has accepted their responsiblility and is asking for your cooperation in order to file a police report. so that the culprits can be punished. This is a good thing and you should support them in any way that you can.

Sure it will mean that you will have to spend a bit of time, but if you want to blame someone for that it should be the guy who stole the card, not the credit card company.

[Soutpeel]

I would say that you are pretty lucky the way things worked out and should not be thinking about suing anyone.

Seeing as the the OP is from the US, suggesting he should sue someone is an expected response......

[jazzbo]

It appears that TescoLotus may maintain a different policy re: American Express Up-Country vs. Bangkok.

[tonywebster]

sorry but you are not in the real world now,,

this is the wild west ,,or east,,

ALL credit cards / any cards MUST be collected by YOU at a bank branch/ Credit card company.

ent by courier foryour signature ONLY.. actually this is standard practice,,,so i find the whole story abit hard to beleive..???

and if it was acontact within the CC company why are YOU the ONLY victim..??

IF the CC co has cancelled all the fraudulent tansactions,, get on wit your life,, going to court here will be 10 years min..

All 3 of my Thai credit cards were sent to my office and signed for by my staff so I fail to see why you find this story hard to believe, also one of my cards is from the company involved in this.

there is no knowledge here as to whether he is the only victim, however if you read the story it was one individual working for the condo that had the chance to take this card and maybe had a contact at the cc company, this is possibly why he is the only victim as maybe he is the only card holder for this cc company in the building, or the only one that got his statement delivered there.

[connel707]

Can of worms...and some of them could be closer to home than you might think.

I agree 100%.... look closer to home..we will always be Farang... is a certain member of your family from Issan.?

[theoldgit]

It appears that TescoLotus may maintain a different policy re: American Express Up-Country vs. Bangkok.

Don't know, but I have used mine in Tesco Lotus in Udon Thani, which is fairly well up country

[ukrules]

"This has really made my Thai wife angry since she feels that I have suffered enough with the stress, subsequent poor health"

This actually damaged your health ? I suggest you get one of those oxygen tents Michael Jackson used to use and stay in it for at least a couple of months, when you come out get a life.

[Stjohnm]

Just get on with life, leave it Dave he ain't worf it!!!

Seriously I asked my Thai Bank to hold any mail for me at my account holding branch as I spend half my time in BKK & the other upcountry but I'd of thought that anyone living in an apartment building here would have 2nd thoughts about having financial Data sent to them unless they sign for it personally.

& Tesco up country do accept AmEx I've used mine both up country and in BKK

[jazzbo]

AmEx Member since 1984 BWTFDIK -- the TescoLotus manager today told me that they do not accept AmEx... YMMV.

[theoldgit]

AmEx Member since 1984 BWTFDIK -- the TescoLotus manager today told me that they do not accept AmEx... YMMV.

I didn't realise that the length of time you have been a member had any relevence to where your card is accepted. All I know is mine has been accepted in Bangkok and up country as it seems is the card of "stjohnm".

[2008bangkok]

no comment :D

[clinique]

sorry but you are not in the real world now,,

this is the wild west ,,or east,,

ALL credit cards / any cards MUST be collected by YOU at a bank branch/ Credit card company.

ent by courier foryour signature ONLY.. actually this is standard practice,,,so i find the whole story abit hard to beleive..???

and if it was acontact within the CC company why are YOU the ONLY victim..??

IF the CC co has cancelled all the fraudulent tansactions,, get on wit your life,, going to court here will be 10 years min..

All 3 of my Thai credit cards were sent to my office and signed for by my staff so I fail to see why you find this story hard to believe, also one of my cards is from the company involved in this.

there is no knowledge here as to whether he is the only victim, however if you read the story it was one individual working for the condo that had the chance to take this card and maybe had a contact at the cc company, this is possibly why he is the only victim as maybe he is the only card holder for this cc company in the building, or the only one that got his statement delivered there.

the points i was tryingto make are;

1) whocould know the security question answers - especially the last trransaction...??? (how could someone who worked at the condo know that??

2) if you agree to have your card delivered to a "multiple use' address and allow other people tosig for them - you are asking for trouble - this is not sensible security precautions..

som mum na..

[jazzbo]

the only reason I mentioned the AmEx card in the first place was to try to figure out which of the OP's card was compromised... when i first started traveling to Asia many places would accept an AmEx card but not Visa -- now it is the other way around. If the guys here say that TescoL accepts AmEx, then I must be mistaken... wouldn't be the first time.

[tonywebster]

AmEx Member since 1984 BWTFDIK -- the TescoLotus manager today told me that they do not accept AmEx... YMMV.

They take mine in Bangkok

[tonywebster]

sorry but you are not in the real world now,,

this is the wild west ,,or east,,

ALL credit cards / any cards MUST be collected by YOU at a bank branch/ Credit card company.

ent by courier foryour signature ONLY.. actually this is standard practice,,,so i find the whole story abit hard to beleive..???

and if it was acontact within the CC company why are YOU the ONLY victim..??

IF the CC co has cancelled all the fraudulent tansactions,, get on wit your life,, going to court here will be 10 years min..

All 3 of my Thai credit cards were sent to my office and signed for by my staff so I fail to see why you find this story hard to believe, also one of my cards is from the company involved in this.

there is no knowledge here as to whether he is the only victim, however if you read the story it was one individual working for the condo that had the chance to take this card and maybe had a contact at the cc company, this is possibly why he is the only victim as maybe he is the only card holder for this cc company in the building, or the only one that got his statement delivered there.

the points i was tryingto make are;

1) whocould know the security question answers - especially the last trransaction...??? (how could someone who worked at the condo know that??

2) if you agree to have your card delivered to a "multiple use' address and allow other people tosig for them - you are asking for trouble - this is not sensible security precautions..

som mum na..

Well I trust my staff as they handle financial transactions all day without any irregularities, added to the fact that there is nobody at my home all day. The point I was making was that you are wrong to say that only the account holder can sign.

The point about who could know the security question is raised and that is why the op believes someone from the cc company is also involved, did you actually read the op or just decide to comment on what you think was written.

On another note amex is the only one of my cc that I don't receive an sms when it is used.