Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[bangkokrick]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...355.html.....at least it is NEWS and not armchair babble...

Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters’ photographer reported on Saturday.

I think Mt Abhisit should start packing his bags and booking a plane ticket if this is what the international press is saying

Don't think so!

THE NATION: Sansern said 2 military officers were injured form bullet. "Some protesters at KokWau intersection have got weapons."

Cheers, Rick

[Jerrytheyoung]

I suggest you spend one month living in a family in North East thailand (Nakhon Phanom - Siwilai.-Sakhon Nakhon) with 3,000TBT for monthly family expenses (4 persons, one running water tap outside only, house ground = soil). Snake and sticky rice for breakfast, sticky rice and herbs for the other meals, from time to time dry fish.....

I have never said it is easy for the people up north. I also see the conditions that some people live in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand.

I have never said that there doesn't need to be changes to help the poor.

I have ALWAYS said that Thaksin isn't the answer to their problems.

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

[moresomekl]

Now the soldiers shoot at foreign reporters ? Good God

I suppose you were there and witnessed it. How do you know that soldiers shot at a foreign reporter? How do you know the reds did not fire the shot? Link please. Only the facts Sargent Friday only the facts.

"Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters’ photographer reported on Saturday."

[TheItaliann]

Has been no news really for the last 2 hours... Unless the gov is waiting for nightfall for some tactical reason, I guess you can expect that Mark is being told as we speak "Oh jeez! Well, we tried our best!"

The military has not been willing to get their hands dirty through any of this. Don't expect that to change this week. They have nothing to gain politically by doing so and everything to lose.

Nobody (besides JingThing) really wants to see the Thai military (with its history) back of the street killing people.

[jdinasia]

Seizing Chiang Mai city hall is a genius move. They can oust all the reds that work there. Maybe they can riot and burn their own homes down while they're at it.

You really don't understand politics, do you?

after your failure to acknowledge that things are changing for the better under the democrats for the rural poor (all over the country) and your refusal to explain how your programs would be paid for .....

The Dems have made more progress to SUSTAINABLE programs for rural Thais than anyone including Thaksin ever has. But what we have now is the red leadership just working for Thaksin and not for Thailand or Thailand's poor.

[anotherpeter]

I suggest you spend one month living in a family in North East thailand (Nakhon Phanom - Siwilai.-Sakhon Nakhon) with 3,000TBT for monthly family expenses (4 persons, one running water tap outside only, house ground = soil). Snake and sticky rice for breakfast, sticky rice and herbs for the other meals, from time to time dry fish.....

I have never said it is easy for the people up north. I also see the conditions that some people live in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand.

I have never said that there doesn't need to be changes to help the poor.

I have ALWAYS said that Thaksin isn't the answer to their problems.

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

The reds are trying to sideline him because he's bad for their image, but he's still there in the speeches and on red tv. He might not be too involved at the moment, but that doesn't change it being about him.

[jdinasia]

I suggest you spend one month living in a family in North East thailand (Nakhon Phanom - Siwilai.-Sakhon Nakhon) with 3,000TBT for monthly family expenses (4 persons, one running water tap outside only, house ground = soil). Snake and sticky rice for breakfast, sticky rice and herbs for the other meals, from time to time dry fish.....

I have never said it is easy for the people up north. I also see the conditions that some people live in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand.

I have never said that there doesn't need to be changes to help the poor.

I have ALWAYS said that Thaksin isn't the answer to their problems.

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

Huh? That is why they (the reds) are carrying his pictures ...... That is why he is featured in call-ins .... That is why he is calling the shots!

[FreedomDude]

Just walked south down Ratchaprarop from Soi Rangnam all the way to the front of Central World. No sign of police or troops anywhere. A huge, HUGE crowd of Reds there stretching north from the intersection all the way up to Pratunam and beyond. Pushing these guys out at this point in time would be, well, pointless. They'd need at least 20000 troops! There'd no doubt be thousands of injuries and probably many deaths. As far as NUMBERS go, it's a much different situation here than over at Makkhawan. Hopefully the Thai leaders are not stupid enough to try anything down there now. I'm guessing they'll try something in the middle of the night when many folks go home.

Edited April 10, 2010 by FreedomDude

[humfurry]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...355.html.....at least it is NEWS and not armchair babble...

Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters' photographer reported on Saturday.

"Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters' photographer reported on Saturday."

That is a quote from AJ. Now how do they know that?

Never in a million years did soldiers fire live rounds (other than rubber bullets) at the protesters, do you think only one person would have been shot if that's the case?

The army and police may be bungling idiots but even they could do better than one shot into a mass crowd of people. No idea who shot that guy but is wasn't the police or army - that is simply not the case.

Sorry Humfurry, this isn't directed at you in particular...

Np m8, Cheers

[moresomekl]

I suggest you spend one month living in a family in North East thailand (Nakhon Phanom - Siwilai.-Sakhon Nakhon) with 3,000TBT for monthly family expenses (4 persons, one running water tap outside only, house ground = soil). Snake and sticky rice for breakfast, sticky rice and herbs for the other meals, from time to time dry fish.....

I have never said it is easy for the people up north. I also see the conditions that some people live in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand.

I have never said that there doesn't need to be changes to help the poor.

I have ALWAYS said that Thaksin isn't the answer to their problems.

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

Yes tried to explain to anotherpeter so many times but it is always about Thaksin with him

so stuborn .

My gf tells me Thaksin had good heart but is not central , however she tells me they dont

want Abhisit in the country side .

[vicco]

Can we say now that the fat lady has sung yet in regard to the red siege of Bangkok? It appears the reds have lost, and that is a done deal. Too premature?

Better take some more of that premature ejaculation medication jt.

Premature ejaculation is a big problem here.....it's been happening since day one. The fat lady is asleep in the wings, and the game has gone into overtime.

Lots of games are won or lost in overtime...

[Jerrytheyoung]

I suggest you spend one month living in a family in North East thailand (Nakhon Phanom - Siwilai.-Sakhon Nakhon) with 3,000TBT for monthly family expenses (4 persons, one running water tap outside only, house ground = soil). Snake and sticky rice for breakfast, sticky rice and herbs for the other meals, from time to time dry fish.....

I have never said it is easy for the people up north. I also see the conditions that some people live in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand.

I have never said that there doesn't need to be changes to help the poor.

I have ALWAYS said that Thaksin isn't the answer to their problems.

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

Huh? That is why they (the reds) are carrying his pictures ...... That is why he is featured in call-ins .... That is why he is calling the shots!

No it not propaganda: it is personal experience in my In Law family.

[gregb]

I suggest you spend one month living in a family in North East thailand (Nakhon Phanom - Siwilai.-Sakhon Nakhon) with 3,000TBT for monthly family expenses (4 persons, one running water tap outside only, house ground = soil). Snake and sticky rice for breakfast, sticky rice and herbs for the other meals, from time to time dry fish.....

I have never said it is easy for the people up north. I also see the conditions that some people live in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand.

I have never said that there doesn't need to be changes to help the poor.

I have ALWAYS said that Thaksin isn't the answer to their problems.

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

Then denounce him because Thaksin is the reason that most people are not sympathetic to the reds cause.

If they truly want elections, they simply need to denounce Thaksin and guarantee they will not to bring him back or pardon him. Admit he received justice.

Oh, you don't want to do this? Wonder why.

Thaksin is as central now as he has always been. This riot is only about Thaksin. If the reds denounced him they would receive the support of the entire country and we could all live in peace and harmony.

They won't do that, because for all of the bluster of the Thaksin apologists on this site, it is still entirely about him.

Remember why the PAD started protesting in the first place. It wasn't to subjugate the rural Issan community. It was to get Thaksin out so he could be legitimately tried in a court of law. Denying Thaksin is the central tenant of the red platform either egregiously disingenuous or extremely naive.

[Slip]

<snipped to fit quote limits>

70,000 ???

There are more people there than have been at most of their rallies (except the first day?).

Anyone close to the scene that can verify these (inflated?) figures?

There are never 70,000 there during the hot sunny afternoon. But at night, numbers do get close to that. So while the army has managed to clear out most of the areas this afternoon, it will be an entirely different story tonight.

Source?

Well they have to get to the rally site first. I think that may be a problem as the site seems blockaded.

Sorry - I was unclear. I was asking Rainman for the source of the (rather outrageous sounding) claim that numbers have been getting close to 70k people at night.

Still waiting though Rainman. Surprise, surprise.

[TheItaliann]

Just walked south down Ratchaprarop from Soi Rangnam all the way to the front of Central World. No sign of police or troops anywhere. A huge, HUGE crowd of Reds there stretching north from the intersection all the way up to Pratunam and beyond. Pushing these guys out at this point in time would be, well, pointless. They'd need at least 20000 troops! There'd no doubt be thousands of injuries and probably many deaths. Hopefully the Thai leaders are not stupid enough to try anything down there now. I'm guessing they'll try something in the middle of the night when many folks go home.

Maybe police are getting shut eye and going to attack at night when the protesters are tired and many who live in Bangkok go home?

Yes, no police anywhere in sight, that fat lady has sung JingThing. It will end any second now!

[Jerrytheyoung]

Helicopter drops teargas canisters onto protesters at Phan Fa

At 5:58 pm, Thai PBS reported that a helicopter dropped teargas canisters onto protesters.

But the protesters retaliated by releasing balloons at the helicopter.

-- The Nation 2010-04-10

Far to be over, some smart tacticians in the Red team...

Edited April 10, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[MellowYellow]

Would anyone care to guess who made this statement and when?

OOOH! You want to play this game again?

OK. We can play!

Water CANNON are not violent? Do you care to take yourself (if you are in Thailand) and your family and put your bodies in the way of some water CANNON to demonstrate how they are not violent? (Granted they are usually less than LETHAL but not always --- however they are certainly violent!)

You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower? You should gladly be willing to be a test subject for that then!

You think "water is not violent"? Were you alive on Boxing Day 2004?

I guess water cannon are OK, afterall as long as they are aimed at dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

When you call for actual violence .. then your opinion CAN hurt people. (That may be why there is a rule against it on ThaiVisa.com)

I guess violence is OK, as long as it is aimed at dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

I guess military attacks by the MILITARY itself are OK as long as those attacks happen to dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

I guess anything goes as long as you work your group in a frenzy by shouting "THAKSIN THAKSIN THAKSIN!" over and over and over. Chanting that makes anything the military/police do, just fine.

[TheItaliann]

Why so little live footage?

[moresomekl]

Have you noticed that Thaksin is sidelined in the current situation? Nobody want him back, let him in Dubai. Have you noticed that more and more the Red Shirts are fighting for themselves? There are some evolutions... I know that some have some sympathy for Thaksin but he is no more central. Please open your eyes and notice the change in the position of the Centre of gravity.

Huh? That is why they (the reds) are carrying his pictures ...... That is why he is featured in call-ins .... That is why he is calling the shots!

The one calling the shots is Abhisit now , in a very straight sense

[FreedomDude]

How 'bout some more eyewitness accounts out there. Is there a thread for on-the-ground reports or did I miss that? What's going on now if you're near or recently been near the action?

[moresomekl]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...355.html.....at least it is NEWS and not armchair babble...

Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters’ photographer reported on Saturday.

I think Mt Abhisit should start packing his bags and booking a plane ticket if this is what the international press is saying

I suggest him flying to Montenegro . They specialise in ext thai PM

[bangkokrick]

He who pays the piper plays the tune. Thaksin is paying and playing here big time.

Cheers, Rick

[Netfan]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...355.html.....at least it is NEWS and not armchair babble...

Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters’ photographer reported on Saturday.

I think Mt Abhisit should start packing his bags and booking a plane ticket if this is what the international press is saying

The protesters have been warned. Th international press I've seen is saying that the Thai government has shown restraint. Right now Asia News is showing Reds with spears attacking soldiers. Their commentator from Asian Studies Center says protesters are provoking government into using force.

[humfurry]

Why so little live footage?

I might suggest that we who live in Bkk and who are of western descent that the majority ot Thais just want to watch their soaps. Remember TV is not the exclusive right of Bangkok.

Edited April 10, 2010 by humfurry

[jdinasia]

Would anyone care to guess who made this statement and when?

OOOH! You want to play this game again?

OK. We can play!

Water CANNON are not violent? Do you care to take yourself (if you are in Thailand) and your family and put your bodies in the way of some water CANNON to demonstrate how they are not violent? (Granted they are usually less than LETHAL but not always --- however they are certainly violent!)

You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower? You should gladly be willing to be a test subject for that then!

You think "water is not violent"? Were you alive on Boxing Day 2004?

I guess water cannon are OK, afterall as long as they are aimed at dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

I guess military attacks by the MILITARY itself are OK as long as those attacks happen to dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

I guess anything goes as long as you work your group in a frenzy by shouting "THAKSIN THAKSIN THAKSIN!" over and over and over. Chanting that makes anything the military/police do, just fine.

again I have answered those statements --- and have addressed the issues and you know it

To re-state my position for you...

The government after having given lawful orders repeatedly ARE acting properly to use less than Lethal ways to disperse a crowd.

That has been followed here .. it was not followed on October 7th 2008.

The protesters that ATTACKED Regiment 1 and ATTACKED ThaiCom are certainly open to being teargassed and watercannoned ... (I kinda object to the rubber bullets but I can live with it)

So far the protesters have not been attacked with military ordinance .. so your bolded quote is hyperbole. What happened on Oct 7th was the police used faulty Chinese military ordinance.

[bubba]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...355.html.....at least it is NEWS and not armchair babble...

Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters' photographer reported on Saturday.

"Thai troops fired live rounds and tear gas directly at protesters, known as "red shirts", at a bridge next to the regional UN headquarters, wounding at least one in the arm, a Reuters' photographer reported on Saturday."

That is a quote from AJ. Now how do they know that?

Never in a million years did soldiers fire live rounds (other than rubber bullets) at the protesters, do you think only one person would have been shot if that's the case?

The army and police may be bungling idiots but even they could do better than one shot into a mass crowd of people. No idea who shot that guy but is wasn't the police or army - that is simply not the case.

Sorry Humfurry, this isn't directed at you in particular...

I was watching the live video and never saw what looked to be an automatic weapon firing into the crowd. They were firing warning shots into the air, but I don't know whether they were blanks. If they weren't, I was thinking it was sort of irresponsible since what goes up must come down somewhere. I seriously doubt that any live ammo was fired into the crowd or there was have been massive casualties as packed together as the reds were.

The "live rounds" were tear gas and rubber bullets. I saw some rubber bullet wounds being displayed by UDD TV. The news accounts of "live rounds" meaning real bullets are just spectacular reporting. It couldn't have happened.

As for the reporter who was wounded, where did the bullet come from? I see three possibilities:

1) Directly fired from a soldier into the crowd. Not likely, if there was only one casualty, and for sure no soldier would intentionally target a foreign reporter.

2) From a warning shot fired into the sky that returned to the ground and struck someone. Plausible.

3) From a shot fired a red shirt. Plausible, but perhaps unlikely that a red shirt targeted a foreign reporter. On the other hand, a wounded reporter makes great propaganda.

[Netfan]

I guess water cannon are OK, afterall as long as they are aimed at dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

When you call for actual violence .. then your opinion CAN hurt people. (That may be why there is a rule against it on ThaiVisa.com)

I guess violence is OK, as long as it is aimed at dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

there is no harm in civilized protest the harm happens when like in September the police fail to keep a group from being attacked or in October when the police attack a peaceful group with military ordinance

I guess military attacks by the MILITARY itself are OK as long as those attacks happen to dehumanized protesters who disagree with you.

I guess anything goes as long as you work your group in a frenzy by shouting "THAKSIN THAKSIN THAKSIN!" over and over and over. Chanting that makes anything the military/police do, just fine.

I guess threatining the derailing the BTS and destroying the stations is okay. I guess attacking soldiers with sharpened sticks is okay. I guess hiding behind women, children and monks while calling for violence is okay.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Netfan

[jdinasia]

BTW --- MellowYellow --- I actually answer issues ... you will note that KJP did not.

[Splatter]

Why so little live footage?

Because the reporters keep getting shot?????

[johncitizen]

The military is under the control of all the news stations, and they are not keen on live footage of the crackdown, especially the troops retreating from Makkawan. Meanwhile, Al Jazeera and Reuters are reporting around 100 injured from the clashes near Pan Fa, and that troops were firing on protesters with live ammunition. Two journalists hospitalised, one with a gunshot wound to the leg.