Are Red-Shirts Battling For Thaksin's Bt76 Bn Or Democracy?

[anotherpeter]

From what I see in Thailand, the majority of Thai's support the Reds.

There are no large gatherings against them, just a few Yellows now and then pose for the camera's to allow the biased Yelllow media to report "anti-Red" things.

I see Thai's giving them food and water. I see more Thai's cheering them.

I see the foreign media is going into details about the crisis and whats behind it.

In this instance here, the Yellows have nothing but "zero democracy" on their agenda. The Reds have "Democracy" on their agenda, so yes, it is comparing apples and pears.

Pleading ignorance over the allegiance between Yellow / PAD / Democrats etc... does not make the questions go away.

Once again, you are just dividing it into red and yellow.

At least half the population is neither.

A maximum of 100,000 people protesting, and maybe another 100,000 obvious support in Bangkok does not make a majority.

Certainly the reds have a large amount of support in Thailand, but I doubt very much that it is the majority.

They could only get 40% of the vote in the last election. That is not a majority.

And you keep saying that the election was unfair, but you fail to give ANY examples of why, and how, anything that happened in the last election campaign affected the red vote - oh, except ofcourse for the rules trying to stop electoral fraud.

There haven't been any large anti-red protests because as soon as there is a suggestion of a protest, the red leaders come out with threats of violence against them.

Red democracy at work!

[rixalex]

From what I see in Thailand, the majority of Thai's support the Reds.

Looking at the number of red supporters there are out on the streets in Bangkok compared with the total population of Bangkok, i would question that statement.

As for using the lack of protests against the reds as proof of their popularity, you need to consider the fact that most Thais are completely fed up with all this protest nonsense and just want it to end. Them going out on the streets themselves is only likely to escalate matters.

[chantorn]

Many RED wants Thaksin to go to hel_l.

Thaksin should stay offline, and let the RED people fight for democracy on their own.

[Ivanuvich]

"Although the red shirts and the government both claim they are fighting to uphold democracy"

This is fundamentally untrue. To give the Govt. the same credibility of motive as the Red Shirts, is agenda. The Govt. motive is not democracy...they never speak of that...it is one of preservation, of avoiding elections they cannot win, it is of buying time...none of which has anything to do with Democracy.

The Red Shirts on the other hand, irrespective of the media agenda trying to tie them exclusively to Thaksin, bereft of any other motive, talks about nothing else but restoration of electoral democracy. They decry the manner in which this Govt. came to power and are seeking a dissolution of the resulting parliament. Their demand for Democratic elections is all about democracy.

"a large part of the general public believe that the current disruptions are the concluding phases of deciding how former PM Thaksin Shinawatra's Bt76 billion frozen by the government will ultimately be distributed".

Probably not a large part of the general public. More a case of the entire Amataya establishment believing this. That is not the general public

"Their well-run protests have brought further fears, that they have created a "red" movement with aspirations far beyond just supporting their benefactor, Thaksin."

"FEARS?"....."CREATED A RED MOVEMENT"......What is a red movement? Never heard of one? The attempt to deprive the Red Shirts of any modicum of political motivation is rife throughout the Amataya media. The notion of speaking about a "Democracy Movement" is anathema to them. To prevent that motivation being applied to the Red Shirts, they will speak of the meaningless 'red movement', or "Thaksinites".......anything but a movement to restore electoral democracy.....that motive does not serve the Amataya very well, so they obfuscate it.

[lannarebirth]

Many RED wants Thaksin to go to hel_l.

Thaksin should stay offline, and let the RED people fight for democracy on their own.

You know that's not true for the vast makority of protesters, or for the PTP opposition. When Thasin picks up the phone they do his bidding. PTP blocking constitutional reform on Thaksins say so, just one obvious example. NOBODY believes this isn't about Thaksin right now. If the movement could dissassociate itself from him, which I don't believe it can, it would garner great sympathy and new partners.

[connel707]

An interesting question and possibly part of the psychological warfare being put out by the Yellow, warfare that has lasted over 5 years now.

Lets flip the question a little, "What are the Yellow Shirts/PAD/NPP/Democrats/Elite fighting for, justice or preservation of power".

I think if we answer that question we will answer the red question and prove that beyond a doubt that the Reds are for Democracy.

More dumb logic: If the reds love only bananas, the yellows must love only apples.

Why do you keep posting nonsense propaganda that harms the reds 'cause'? It just makes you look silly.

Thaksin had his chance at PM and blew it. The majority of educated, intelligent people can see he did no put Thailand first, he put himself first, and strung along some of the poor to help his remaining in power.

No amount of your pissing-contest claims about the Yellows in every post you make is going to change the mind of Thais or foreigners who can see clearly the behaviour of Thaksin and his red followers for themselves.

From what I see in Thailand, the majority of Thai's support the Reds.

There are no large gatherings against them, just a few Yellows now and then pose for the camera's to allow the biased Yelllow media to report "anti-Red" things.

I see Thai's giving them food and water. I see more Thai's cheering them.

I see the foreign media is going into details about the crisis and whats behind it.

In this instance here, the Yellows have nothing but "zero democracy" on their agenda. The Reds have "Democracy" on their agenda, so yes, it is comparing apples and pears.

Pleading ignorance over the allegiance between Yellow / PAD / Democrats etc... does not make the questions go away.

The majority of Thais do not support the Red Shirts.... their crowds are less than a good Scottish football match... and the only Bangkok residents who support them are the incoming workers from the north of Thailand... Everyone else I speak to want them just to go away.... and my house-maid told me that if the Reds win, all Farangs will be given one month notice to leave Thailand..... Thailand for the Thais....

[Redsunset]

From what I see in Thailand, the majority of Thai's support the Reds.

Looking at the number of red supporters there are out on the streets in Bangkok compared with the total population of Bangkok, i would question that statement.

As for using the lack of protests against the reds as proof of their popularity, you need to consider the fact that most Thais are completely fed up with all this protest nonsense and just want it to end. Them going out on the streets themselves is only likely to escalate matters.

Yes, I am fed up, but I am also smart enough not to risk injury by going out on the street and making an ass out of myself.

[Redsunset]

"Although the red shirts and the government both claim they are fighting to uphold democracy"

This is fundamentally untrue. To give the Govt. the same credibility of motive as the Red Shirts, is agenda. The Govt. motive is not democracy...they never speak of that...it is one of preservation, of avoiding elections they cannot win, it is of buying time...none of which has anything to do with Democracy.

The Red Shirts on the other hand, irrespective of the media agenda trying to tie them exclusively to Thaksin, bereft of any other motive, talks about nothing else but restoration of electoral democracy. They decry the manner in which this Govt. came to power and are seeking a dissolution of the resulting parliament. Their demand for Democratic elections is all about democracy.

"a large part of the general public believe that the current disruptions are the concluding phases of deciding how former PM Thaksin Shinawatra's Bt76 billion frozen by the government will ultimately be distributed".

Probably not a large part of the general public. More a case of the entire Amataya establishment believing this. That is not the general public

"Their well-run protests have brought further fears, that they have created a "red" movement with aspirations far beyond just supporting their benefactor, Thaksin."

"FEARS?"....."CREATED A RED MOVEMENT"......What is a red movement? Never heard of one? The attempt to deprive the Red Shirts of any modicum of political motivation is rife throughout the Amataya media. The notion of speaking about a "Democracy Movement" is anathema to them. To prevent that motivation being applied to the Red Shirts, they will speak of the meaningless 'red movement', or "Thaksinites".......anything but a movement to restore electoral democracy.....that motive does not serve the Amataya very well, so they obfuscate it.

Ivan, it is all about.... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[rixalex]

Many RED wants Thaksin to go to hel_l.

He'll go there whatever the reds want... but of course that isn't what they want. If i didn't value my life i would prove the point by stepping out into the protests and shouting those words.

[kissdani]

An interesting question and possibly part of the psychological warfare being put out by the Yellow, warfare that has lasted over 5 years now.

Lets flip the question a little, "What are the Yellow Shirts/PAD/NPP/Democrats/Elite fighting for, justice or preservation of power".

I think if we answer that question we will answer the red question and prove that beyond a doubt that the Reds are for Democracy.

Lets rewind to the coup. Prior to the coup the Democrats refused to take part in the election as they knew they would lose and so refused to play.

The CNS were in power after the coup and members of the CNS are on record as saying they will deal with Thaksin by "years of mass psychology" ahead "similar to how we battled the Commies" . In other words there will be a concerted effort to disgrace him, to drag him through the dirt. to find him guilty and to turn him into a villain.

This is very normal, its very common for Junta's and Coup leaders around the world to "make up" all sorts of evidence and find the previous regime in power guilty in Kangaroo courts.

So what we have here is the first time the Thai people (majority) have not been suckered into the media manipulated psychological warfare of the state.

The Thai people have said "Ok, you say he is a villain and bad, but even if he is he is better than you Yellow PAD Elite, you are far worse than him".

That really slaps them in the face. They held a coup, they put into place control of the checks and balances system, they controlled the media, some say they control the courts and yet, to this day, the people say they prefer the Thaksin over the Elite, as even if he was bad, he is not as bad as all the Yellow and Elites and PAD and NPP and Democrats.

Part of the psychological warfare ongoing is to make this all about Thaksin and not let the real reason that the rural people want Democracy come to the forefront.

New Politics - by taking away any voting power from the people and giving control to the Elite by majority, and allowing the people to vote a non control minority is their only way forward now, they know they have lost the battle of control over the people, the people will no longer sucker up to the Elite, the people prefer politicians now, people who might take 10 and give back 5, as opposed to the Elite who take 100 and give back 1.

This is why you will see the Yellow Elite attempt to continue to push "New Politics".

This is why you will see the Yellow Elite attempt to continue to push "its all Thaksin"

They have to keep pushing their psychological warfare, they have to keep saying its all about Thaksin.

They do not want the world to see that the Thai people have finally said "Elite / Yellow you are so evil and so corrupt and so bad that even the villain you made, the made up villain you threw out of power, we prefer him over you".

Democracy gives the people the power to choose who rules them.

This is not about Thaksin as such, this is about the Elite attempting to struggle to remain in power. They now know that they have lost fake Democracy as a way to control. They will now, in my opinion, attempt to push "New Politics" as its the only way they can remain "in control".

I saw you cross posted your entry and in the end are issues debated again and again in every thread, so u hope you don't mind if i repeat myself here too.

Thai strength through unity!

Unity is the most important point and that is the goal for all sides. It is time that Thai people come together.

A new election at the moment will solve nothing. Even if it would be a free and fair election, smooth, without any discrepancies it will be not a solution of the problem what is much deeper rooted. maybe one side is clearly the winner, that proves some points, nothing more.This governmnt will face the hate and disrespect that is much stronger than the positive feedback from its voters.

Thailand needs a reform, a reform that is similar to what the PAD called New Politics. The concept is not bad, nor anti-democratic. The pressure and activities of the PAD wasn't maybe the best moves to introduce the idea of New Politics, but that should be not a obstacle to rethink and review the concept of New Politics and its capability to provide a solution and bring the country forward and the people together.

On April 20 the election commission will announce their rule in the 258 million baht TPI donation scandal. The EC will recommend the Democrats dissolution and its leaders banned from politics.. The supreme court will follow the EC findings. The EC decision dismantles the Reds claim: double standard and politically motivated courts. That is not true, the courts are not against the Reds, but punish violations of the law regardless of the delinquents shirt color.

Abhisit will accept this and stay away from politics until he reached the age of a senior citizen and have a comeback as elder statesman. The Reds get the feeling of a little victory and it is time for the reds to stop all talks about double standard and drop Thaksin.

At his last days now, Abhisit will play a little bit the very bad guy, lonely without support by army and anybody else. The army restore its image that got distorted by red propaganda. Everybody can see that the army does no harm to the people.

The very same entities that get attack by the reds propaganda as instruments of dictatorship actually helped the Reds to 'freed' the country of the 'dictator' Abhisit. What they want more, time to go home. Time for talks.

The Reds get the invitation to a Government of National Unity. That offer will separate the sane Reds, the ones who can accept a compromise from the radical part of the Reds who will try to push the issue further. The later will have no public support.

So the dissolution of the Democrats will give the way for a better future. The beginning of New Politics. The old warriors are out of the picture on all sides, banned from politics. A great change to stop the blames and come together. A sane person will understand that there isn't the climate for a new election right now. To much drama, shaked emotions, protest votes under the shadow of the current protests, which will be forgotten next year already when a new color is in fashion. It's clear that there is a need to reform the system.

Reforms, new laws drafted, reviewed and enact by a national unity it will be nothing to complain about. the last ten years we saw so much errors, flaws and wrongdoings, nothing should be repeated. The country is divided, it is time to repair that damage.

The government of national unity will start a series of reforms, reforms concerning how the National Assembly will be composed and to amend the selection process of the representatives. THe goal is that the people will select the honest and the righteous amongst them. Carefully selected Mp we can trust. Carefully selected diligent ministers who can shoulder the responsibility. Carefully selected wise leader with no other intention than to serve the King and the country and do good for all people.

A government the people respect - that is democracy.

New elections won't come to soon now, and not with the old politics system.

Look at the mob in the street. Thailand is divided, people hating each other. Insanity on all sides. One side may win the election, but it is not a solution for real problem. Like the mob on the street the MPs will fight each other in parliament, instead of working together for the good of all people. Elections aren't about to declare victory of one side. No more selfish politicians with vested interests

One day in every 4/5 years to cast a vote isn't enough. Liars hijacked the system and abuse their power and hand out false promises and free candies to the electorate to get re-elected. The so called fight against corruption or class war are just bully attacks at the political opponent. At the wrongdoings of the own side politicians turn a blind eye.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

We must remember that the current global economic crisis was triggered by sub-prime home-loan defaults in the heart of low-income America. Few people understood that a few low-income families forced into home foreclosures could trigger a worldwide economic and financial crisis.

The September 11 attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York taught everyone that seemingly small things can have tremendous impacts. A few terrorists crashing airplanes into major New York City office buildings during office hours has completely changed how America sees itself.

I'm not sure why the author chose these incorrect analogies. The global economic crisis was caused by investors from large banking firms essentially gambling on the payment of high risk mortgages, not the mortgages themselves. The global economy could easily have handled a high default rate. It was bankers who were using credit to invest in derivative mortgage securities that collapsed the economic system. This was a global meltdown of the financial system, not just some bad home loans.

The World Trade Center bombing was not a "small thing". It was the deadliest attack ever perpetrated on the U.S. and directly targeted the world's largest economy. It triggered war on 3 fronts (Iraq, Afghanistan, and the global war on terror). To say it was a small event is completely revisionist.

The red shirt movement is no small thing. I don't believe the rural poor constitutes a majority of the Thai population, as 20 million of its 70 million citizens live in Bangkok. However, these people did have a chance to run the government, and, if they work within the system, would have that chance again in the future. I'm not sure Somchai and Samak did a very good job running the country, but maybe they will find somebody competent to lead the country in the future. They really should wait for elections and find that leader, rather than denigrate their cause by pursuing amnesty for Thaksin or trying to recover his seized assets.

[Thunder26]

By the way, the tanks were taken into the streets. Around 12:30 this afternoon I saw a a dozen of tanks emerging out of military camp.

[Sunderland]

Which camp?

The next government budget intended for the army should be spent on bringing the police force up to scratch - whether by training for crowd dispersal, increasing salaries to reduce levels of corruption or to motivate officers to do the job entrusted in them by the government (whichever one that may be) and the public.

I can understand the government trying to clean up the streets, but tanks? This is a job for the police, however, we all know the police can't police

Edited April 10, 2010 by Sunderland

[Thunder26]

Which camp?

Military camp in Northen Dusit, not far from Kao San.

[Redsunset]

Which camp?

Military camp in Northen Dusit, not far from Kao San.

Thunder, great update.... please keep all of us informed... let us know what you see.... you are better than news reporters.

[thepodest]

Which camp?

Military camp in Northen Dusit, not far from Kao San.

Is it a coup???? or is it not.... DUN DUN DUN

[SurinLA]

By the way, the tanks were taken into the streets. Around 12:30 this afternoon I saw a a dozen of tanks emerging out of military camp.

Shuuuuuusssss Don't say anything. REDS are reading this web too.

[kissdani]

Former colleague telling my last night the office maid believes she'll get 100,000 baht from Thaksin if he returns to Thailand as PM.

These are the rumours doing the rounds right now.

Some foreigner don't recognize the amazing skills of last night office maids in leg-pulling.

Is this leg-pulling a new red shirt tactic? Wife tells me our house maid has been promised some other bountiful splendour upon the return of their saviour.

Is the joke still on us?

I think, if the story is true at all, that the maid got bored to be asked the same questions again and again. The other office people see in her a representative of the reds, low paid job, little education, that are the red people. Or the educated office staff explain to her that it isn't democracy if you get paid to rally and other pieces of wisdom. She plays back, exaggerate a little and tells she will get 100.000 Baht.

Do you really believe that the office maid really believes that?

But wait...

there are other rumors that if you hold an rally for 192 days in Bangkok you will get a new PM, a handsome one. And there are rumor people get paid to attend the rally, 500 baht per day and 2000 baht gasoline money for transport to the rally site.

2 x 'travel expenses a 2000 Baht = 4000 Baht

292 x daily handout of 500 Baht = 96,000 Baht

total = 100,000 Baht

[Jingthing]

Many RED wants Thaksin to go to hel_l.

Thaksin should stay offline, and let the RED people fight for democracy on their own.

They are fighting for democracy? That's funny. Their only intellectual faction is run by Maoists. I don't get that. Maoist democrats? Something is fishy and totally incoherent about this movement. If they had a clear and consistent message with specific agenda items (that were reasonable other than we must totally destroy the nation to rebuild it) they could become the ruling power in Thailand quite easily, and not scare the pants off the silent majority. However, if they dumped Thaksin (an ant-democratic totalitarian type), there goes the money, if they dumped the Maoists and fellow communists, there goes their academic foundation, and then what do they have? Almost nothing.

A red movement as it is now, which publishes media like this (for Thai consumption, not to be seen by the Wall Street Journal), kind of deserves to be smashed, don't you agree?

To the naive foreigner red supporters, we are not against freedom and democracy and justice for poor people. We just don't think the red movement actually offers this.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[geriatrickid]

What if there isn't any money, at least in the quantities discussed? Yes some accounts were frozen, but consider this;

- Do the accounts actually add up to the amounts referenced, once the value of the paper assets are adjusted to account for the actual value of the assets today? Think about it. The value of Mr. Thaksin's assets were estimated at US$2.3 billion. It wasn't all sitting there in Thai baht notes was it?

- Mr. Thaksin was allowed to keep US$900 million, but are those assets really worth it?

I have used the $US reference because it conveys my point about there having been large drops in asset values, if you just consider what has happened with the $US. The Thaksin assets were "diversified". I have a hunch they are worth much less, except no one wants to admit to it. Its merely speculation on my part that the money isn't there. Thaksin refers to it because it suits his purpose. Mr. Korn was using it to "pay" for all the social programs promised. having a large pile of money to seize made it easier to villianize Mr. Thaksin and push frward with an unpopular and dangerous prosecution. What if both Thaksin and the government were playing a game of smoke and mirrors as it served their purposes to say the money was there? People have thrown up the Madoff ponzi scheme in an attempt to malign Thaksin, but that label may actually be an indication of things to come. A large part of the losses claimed under the Madoff fraud was predicated on lost interest and potential income. In simple language the money was never there and it certainly should not have been calculated at the inflated interest rates used by Madoff. Yes people lost lots of money, but if the loss includes the future vale, the time value, it really isn't a loss. That's why financial institution bonds and bankers errors and omissions insurance placements won't indemify for that type of loss: It is unquantifiable. A better indication is the Stanford scam where Sir Stanford (he did have an Antiguan nighthood ) inflated the value of assets to build his position.

I shudder to think of the consequences of what happens if my scenario is true. If the Reds are victorious and he doesn't have the cash to reward followers, then he's toast. If the government played with the numbers, then it is pulling a Greek budget move using non existent assets to pay for programs and more importantly would be shown to have manipulated the case even more than was alleged. Hopefully, I am wrong, but this being thailand, there is always a twisting money trail that leads into a dark swampy area filled with hungry serpents.

[Insight]

Former colleague telling my last night the office maid believes she'll get 100,000 baht from Thaksin if he returns to Thailand as PM.

These are the rumours doing the rounds right now.

Some foreigner don't recognize the amazing skills of last night office maids in leg-pulling.

Is this leg-pulling a new red shirt tactic? Wife tells me our house maid has been promised some other bountiful splendour upon the return of their saviour.

Is the joke still on us?

I think, if the story is true at all, that the maid got bored to be asked the same questions again and again. The other office people see in her a representative of the reds, low paid job, little education, that are the red people. Or the educated office staff explain to her that it isn't democracy if you get paid to rally and other pieces of wisdom. She plays back, exaggerate a little and tells she will get 100.000 Baht.

Do you really believe that the office maid really believes that?

But wait...

there are other rumors that if you hold an rally for 192 days in Bangkok you will get a new PM, a handsome one. And there are rumor people get paid to attend the rally, 500 baht per day and 2000 baht gasoline money for transport to the rally site.

2 x 'travel expenses a 2000 Baht = 4000 Baht

292 x daily handout of 500 Baht = 96,000 Baht

total = 100,000 Baht

Matters little what you believe. This is what she seems to believe and appears to be her primary motivation for attending. Debate it until the cows come home, but there's little indication she is attempting to lead any of us on.

[mca]

and my house-maid told me that if the Reds win, all Farangs will be given one month notice to leave Thailand...

Hope her CV is up to date.

[Jingthing]

and my house-maid told me that if the Reds win, all Farangs will be given one month notice to leave Thailand...

Hope her CV is up to date.

Is there any red leadership rhetoric that reflects the feeling of the maid? Not much we can do it about it anyway, but foreigners supporting the reds should know about this if they are really talking this way.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[kissdani]

A red movement as it is now, which publishes media like this (for Thai consumption, not to be seen by the Wall Street Journal), kind of deserves to be smashed, don't you agree?

To the naive foreigner red supporters, we are not against freedom and democracy and justice for poor people. We just don't think the red movement actually offers this.

What is that issue of "ThaiFreedom" about?

And why that alone is enough to deserve to be smashed?

You must have a lot of hate inside you.

[rixalex]

What is that issue of "ThaiFreedom" about?

And why that alone is enough to deserve to be smashed?

You must have a lot of hate inside you.

The only sense in which the red movement is for freedom is in that they want Thaksin free from punishment of his crimes. Why not smash a movement that has injustice as its goal?

[slapout]

Which camp?

Military camp in Northen Dusit, not far from Kao San.

Thunder, great update.... please keep all of us informed... let us know what you see.... you are better than news reporters.

Not doubting thunder but a picture or even a description of these tanks may help. We have seen personal carriers and other military vehicles called tanks by some of the posters, over the past few weeks. If it appears to be a upside down cereal bowl on tracks, with a long pipe sticking out of the side of the bowl, let us know. (If the pipe is pointing in your direction, you may want to report from a different location)

[slapout]

Which camp?

Military camp in Northen Dusit, not far from Kao San.

Thunder, great update.... please keep all of us informed... let us know what you see.... you are better than news reporters.

Not doubting thunder but a picture or even a description of these tanks may help. We have seen personal carriers and other military vehicles called tanks by some of the posters, over the past few weeks. If it appears to be a upside down cereal bowl on tracks, with a long pipe sticking out of the side of the bowl, let us know. (If the pipe is pointing in your direction, you may want to report from a different location)

[slapout]

Which camp?

Military camp in Northen Dusit, not far from Kao San.

Thunder, great update.... please keep all of us informed... let us know what you see.... you are better than news reporters.

Not doubting thunder but a picture or even a description of these tanks may help. We have seen personal carriers and other military vehicles called tanks by some of the posters, over the past few weeks. If it appears to be a upside down cereal bowl on tracks, with a long pipe sticking out of the side of the bowl, let us know. (If the pipe is pointing in your direction, you may want to report from a different location)

[slapout]

sorry mids please delete repeat replies, had trouble connecting to TV.

[mangkorn]

Ah! Now you want to Ban The Nation because it has an editorial slant you dislike.

What a wonderful supporter of Democracy you are.

And have removed the last vestiges of your credibility for good.

And before you whine about PTV's closing and say your idea at censorship is not as bad,

remember The Nation has never advocated street rioting and burning Bangkok to the ground.

NO! I don't editorals confused with factual news.

Quite evidently, you do confuse editorials with factual news. The Nation published it on the Opinion page, as a guest editorial.

That is commonly known in the English-speaking trade as an "op-ed" piece: "opposite the editorials" page. The term derives from the broadsheet tradition of publishing the management's editorials on the left-hand page, with regular columnists and guest editorials on the right-hand page. Regardless of the layout used today, the latter are solely the opinions of the authors - not of the newspaper's editors or owners. Even when certain editors are allowed to publish their own commentaries, they do so under their personal bylines. Management's editorials do not carry bylines.

The piece that opened this thread is clearly an "op-ed." It was not written by a staff news reporter (nor an editor), nor was it published on the news pages.

Note the byline and tagline, on the Opinion page:

By K I Woo

Special to the Nation