Gonzo the Face Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) I don't know if anyone else feels like I do, but yesterdays demonstration by the security forces guarding the ThaiCom station, was a very sad example of military discipiline. I just pray that no group stronger than a pre school class , threatens the security of this kingdom. In my opinion a very sad, sad example of discipline shown by these troops. Seems like everybody wants something but does not want to work for it. In other words something for nothing..... but no committment or effort to be put out...... Sad example set for the world to see. Edited April 10, 2010 by Gonzo the Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4223rhodes Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 The security forces performed their task masterfully - they enjoyed a spirited tussle with their Red friends with little injury. It's interesting why anyone would want anything else to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo the Face Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 The security forces performed their task masterfully - they enjoyed a spirited tussle with their Red friends with little injury. It's interesting why anyone would want anything else to happen. Yes of course....... heaven forbid they should be expected to do their job...... or did you think their job was to eat any left over rice ?? shades of WWI ,,,,,where the Japanese were INVITED in..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) members of security forces are not alien robots, but part of the working class and society, same as those protesters. my brother's in law, cousins are low rank army and police officers, assigned to keep order in bangkok, are all pink, if not red. They are doing their work, because they were ordered to do so, but don't care about their masters. They will just walk out when not happy with the commanding officer. Same goes for those soldiers, who yestarday shaked hands and saluted protestors Edited April 10, 2010 by londonthai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo the Face Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 members of security forces are not alien robots, but part of the working class and society, same as those protesters.my brother's in law, cousins are low rank army and police officers, assigned to keep order in bangkok, are all pink, if not red. They are doing their work, because they were ordered to do so, but don't care about their masters. They will just walk out when not happy with the commanding officer. Same goes for those soldiers, who yestarday shaked hands and saluted protestors Sounds like you have a good grasp about what the military is to be used for... If you indeed are in London at least there your safty is better secured..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needforspeed Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 members of security forces are not alien robots, but part of the working class and society, same as those protesters.my brother's in law, cousins are low rank army and police officers, assigned to keep order in bangkok, are all pink, if not red. They are doing their work, because they were ordered to do so, but don't care about their masters. They will just walk out when not happy with the commanding officer. Same goes for those soldiers, who yestarday shaked hands and saluted protestors Instead of doing where they get paid for protecting goverment buildings and property and the rights of non red shirt people, they shaking hand with the enemy and stepp aside and give there land away. Hope for Thailand reds and Yellow that they never going into a war with Cambodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrytheyoung Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 In my Country (France), we do have (more often than the average) mob rallies. It is part of the Democracy: it turns from time to time violent (more violent than in Thailand). The Government is utilizing special anti riot forces (the CRS) and Police. For 2 reasons, Army is not used: • Because it is a symbol of National Unity, we do know that inside there are the same divisions than in the Civil society. You must not put the soldiers in a situation they have to choose a side. Army has to be used for external threats ONLY. • Army must not be involved in politics, Army is at the service of the Nation as a whole and not to a part of the Civil society. If you involve them in politician police operations, later on you give them justification to proceed to "Coup". We have to separate the "genders". Operation of Police and Military Operation. I will add one more reason specific to Thailand: Recent history of Thailand is a regrouping of dozens of small entities. The current political division corresponds also roughly to a territorial division. (North against Bangkok + South). If Army is involved in Politics, there are justification for taking side and provide support to all sides, and as we know than we have inside the same divisions than the Civil Society, it ease the slip to a Civil war. On contrary,by staying neutral, above the political divisions, Army must be the Guarantee and the Reference for stability of the Country within its boundaries for ALL THAIS above the current political territorial partition. Army has to stay neutral, and be the reference for ALL Thais. I will add than in Thailand because it is the ROYAL Thai Army, more than in any other Countries Army must be a symbol of UNITY. POLICE with the required reinforcements (Special Units) is the tool for controlling a mob. Every knows the French “Légion Etrangère”. In the rules of engagement, it is stipulated that we must not engage a “Legionnaire” in a Military action against his Country of Origin, against his fellow citizens. This is for a Professional Soldier….What do you want a conscript do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrytheyoung Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 And if you are not convinced that Army must not interfere in Civil affairs.. I suggest you study the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) "The Spanish Civil War was a major conflict that devastated Spain from 17 July 1936 to 1 April 1939. It began after an attempted coup d'état by a group of Spanish Army generals against the government of the Second Spanish Republic,... Wikipedia" Europeans we have experienced this kind of situation (300,000 Deads in atrocian conditions-) and our conclusion: Army must not interfere in Civil Affairs. Army must stay in its Barracks Picasso -Guernica -In memoriam of atrocities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo the Face Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 In my Country (France), we do have (more often than the average) mob rallies. It is part of the Democracy: it turns from time to time violent (more violent than in Thailand). The Government is utilizing special anti riot forces (the CRS) and Police. For 2 reasons, Army is not used: • Because it is a symbol of National Unity, we do know that inside there are the same divisions than in the Civil society. You must not put the soldiers in a situation they have to choose a side. Army has to be used for external threats ONLY. • Army must not be involved in politics, Army is at the service of the Nation as a whole and not to a part of the Civil society. If you involve them in politician police operations, later on you give them justification to proceed to "Coup". We have to separate the "genders". Operation of Police and Military Operation. I will add one more reason specific to Thailand: Recent history of Thailand is a regrouping of dozens of small entities. The current political division corresponds also roughly to a territorial division. (North against Bangkok + South). If Army is involved in Politics, there are justification for taking side and provide support to all sides, and as we know than we have inside the same divisions than the Civil Society, it ease the slip to a Civil war. On contrary,by staying neutral, above the political divisions, Army must be the Guarantee and the Reference for stability of the Country within its boundaries for ALL THAIS above the current political territorial partition. Army has to stay neutral, and be the reference for ALL Thais. I will add than in Thailand because it is the ROYAL Thai Army, more than in any other Countries Army must be a symbol of UNITY. POLICE with the required reinforcements (Special Units) is the tool for controlling a mob. Every knows the French “Légion Etrangère”. In the rules of engagement, it is stipulated that we must not engage a “Legionnaire” in a Military action against his Country of Origin, against his fellow citizens. This is for a Professional Soldier….What do you want a conscript do? Good sensible post...... the likes of which should be considered for Thailand as I am sure this new group would be well used and frequently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 In my Country (France), we do have (more often than the average) mob rallies. It is part of the Democracy: it turns from time to time violent (more violent than in Thailand). The Government is utilizing special anti riot forces (the CRS) and Police. For 2 reasons, Army is not used: • Because it is a symbol of National Unity, we do know that inside there are the same divisions than in the Civil society. You must not put the soldiers in a situation they have to choose a side. Army has to be used for external threats ONLY. • Army must not be involved in politics, Army is at the service of the Nation as a whole and not to a part of the Civil society. If you involve them in politician police operations, later on you give them justification to proceed to "Coup". We have to separate the "genders". Operation of Police and Military Operation. I will add one more reason specific to Thailand: Recent history of Thailand is a regrouping of dozens of small entities. The current political division corresponds also roughly to a territorial division. (North against Bangkok + South). If Army is involved in Politics, there are justification for taking side and provide support to all sides, and as we know than we have inside the same divisions than the Civil Society, it ease the slip to a Civil war. On contrary,by staying neutral, above the political divisions, Army must be the Guarantee and the Reference for stability of the Country within its boundaries for ALL THAIS above the current political territorial partition. Army has to stay neutral, and be the reference for ALL Thais. I will add than in Thailand because it is the ROYAL Thai Army, more than in any other Countries Army must be a symbol of UNITY. POLICE with the required reinforcements (Special Units) is the tool for controlling a mob. Every knows the French “Légion Etrangère”. In the rules of engagement, it is stipulated that we must not engage a “Legionnaire” in a Military action against his Country of Origin, against his fellow citizens. This is for a Professional Soldier….What do you want a conscript do? You mistakenly think that Thailand is France. Thailand does things the Thai way, right or wrong. I'm sure if you tweet the generals your ideas with details about how you and the French handle civil uprisings, I'm sure you will be immediately ushered in to high level talks and you will quickly become chief adviser to the Thai military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo the Face Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 In my Country (France), we do have (more often than the average) mob rallies. It is part of the Democracy: it turns from time to time violent (more violent than in Thailand). The Government is utilizing special anti riot forces (the CRS) and Police. For 2 reasons, Army is not used: • Because it is a symbol of National Unity, we do know that inside there are the same divisions than in the Civil society. You must not put the soldiers in a situation they have to choose a side. Army has to be used for external threats ONLY. • Army must not be involved in politics, Army is at the service of the Nation as a whole and not to a part of the Civil society. If you involve them in politician police operations, later on you give them justification to proceed to "Coup". We have to separate the "genders". Operation of Police and Military Operation. I will add one more reason specific to Thailand: Recent history of Thailand is a regrouping of dozens of small entities. The current political division corresponds also roughly to a territorial division. (North against Bangkok + South). If Army is involved in Politics, there are justification for taking side and provide support to all sides, and as we know than we have inside the same divisions than the Civil Society, it ease the slip to a Civil war. On contrary,by staying neutral, above the political divisions, Army must be the Guarantee and the Reference for stability of the Country within its boundaries for ALL THAIS above the current political territorial partition. Army has to stay neutral, and be the reference for ALL Thais. I will add than in Thailand because it is the ROYAL Thai Army, more than in any other Countries Army must be a symbol of UNITY. POLICE with the required reinforcements (Special Units) is the tool for controlling a mob. Every knows the French “Légion Etrangère”. In the rules of engagement, it is stipulated that we must not engage a “Legionnaire” in a Military action against his Country of Origin, against his fellow citizens. This is for a Professional Soldier….What do you want a conscript do? You mistakenly think that Thailand is France. Thailand does things the Thai way, right or wrong. I'm sure if you tweet the generals your ideas with details about how you and the French handle civil uprisings, I'm sure you will be immediately ushered in to high level talks and you will quickly become chief adviser to the Thai military. Are you intending to imply that Thailand is incapable of learning anything from the outside world? That the way Thailand does things is always perfect and impossible to improve upon.....???? If you are ,,,,,,rather presumptious of you isn't it ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Army at least is showing some common sense up to now. That's more than can be said of many posters on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo the Face Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 Army at least is showing some common sense up to now. That's more than can be said of many posters on this forum. Whinnie..... I would have thought different of you.....the military is an organ. of discipline not emotion.... that one is greenpeace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrytheyoung Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Army at least is showing some common sense up to now. That's more than can be said of many posters on this forum. I do agree, in the situation they are put in (and which is not acceptable), they are very calm and show restraint. I also do believe than the Royal Thai Army is a professional and good one. But the criticisms are orientated to the Politicians who are not thinking to the medium/long term consequences of their decisions, they are just managing an immmediate situation trying to protect themselves and their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 What this and the recent past clearly shows is that the Thai military and police seem incapable of dealing with civil unrest in a professional, disciplined manner. They either do nothing and get pushed out of the way, as occurred with ASEAN in Pattaya and yesterday at Thai.com, or they overreact as occurred under the prior TRT regime when they used explosive grenades that blew people's limbs off. There are very clear and measured methods of dealing with civil unrest that don't involve shooting or killing those involved...unless they start shooting first. Why the Thai security forces seem unable to utilize those techniques in a domestic setting is really peculiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrytheyoung Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) This is what we do not want happening..... Edited April 10, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 I agree with the OP to an extent. However the problem is we don't know what orders the troops were given. Chances are they were given orders NOT to fire live rounds. Then of course they are faced with a violent mob that NEEDS to be shot with live rounds or they will not respect the perimeter. So then they were left with the shitty task of just standing around being meat shields. Had they been given the proper orders that allowed them to fire in defense of themselves and their position. Things would have been different and 100 times better. As one Frenchmen pointed out they are not really trained to passively deal with rioters like certain wings in France's security forces. A touch of air support would have really turned the tide as well, a small but well placed tactical strike would have scattered them like roaches in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) This is what we do not want happening..... Agreed. The redshirts could do several things to prevent this. 1) They could regroup legally and peacefully at Pan Fah. 2) They could go back to the negotiating table, this time with a bit of sincerity. 3) They could stop trying to provoke the government into acting with violence. 4) They could clean up the rhetoric coming from their stages. 5) They could pack up and go home. None of these very reasonable actions will occur though, because they are all about misinformation, violence, criminal behavior, and ultimatums. If they continue with their seditious and illegal actions they will get hurt eventually, and they will have no one to blame but themselves. Edited April 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 This subject is already being debated and discussed here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Authori...-P-t354310.html No need for another topic on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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