Where Does Prices Start For Very Small Condos ?

[Thaifan2]

I would not like to buy a condo for 990.000 and then discover that my neighbour got his for 400.000.

But it does not bother me very much to buy one for 400.000 and then discover that its value slowly depreciates over the next two years to 200.000. I would not like it, but this is part of the deal, prices go up, prices go down.

I bought my first Condo in Thailand in Jomtien Beach Condo for B400,000 ,6 years ago .Since then i spent 4 months a year living in it ,and then full time for 2 years .In rent it has saved me B 350,000 aprox ,and i still own it .I have spent an additional B200,000 doing it up though .If i sell now i hope to get a minimum of B800,000 .

[torrenova]

I've never been a fan of Nirun and the only other sub 1m place I looked at even remotely was that Spanish place on Suk but they had something like 26sqm rooms ! Anyway, I digress. I looked at Northshore/point whatever it was. But I knew some of its history and all the best units had been "sold" off. Cobblers, the best units were given to those were involved in the financing. I didn't fancy hanging onto their coattails but I could have made some money to be sure.

What I do like are sensible low to mid range places with constant appeal and easy rentals for decent prices. For owner occupiers it is even better. As an example. I got into View Talay in 2005 and nicely done out 46sqm places on the top floor were changing hands for around 1.5m all fitted out. Fast forward 5 years and they are trading at over the 33k per sqm or so they obtained then and someone living in would have saved around 60*12000 in rent, so about 720k. So now he has effectively gotten half his money back and his asset has appreciated. I don't see how that is bad business and I've left out the FX gains.

[jori]

It is "now" or the imminent future that I'd be looking at ,not back to 2005.Personally I made five or six fold on stocks selling just before the crash,not really bothered on the rent saving aspect.

The world now is far different from just a few years ago, western societies are all on belt tightening exercises,taxes rocketing up,jobs disappearing, money getting tighter and tighter, the worst has yet to come,it takes time to filter through but filter through it will,the US or Europe gets a cold the likes of Thailand gets double pneumonia.

The Yuan now under pressure and about time too will bring the far eastern currencies down with a bump,the US pulling up the welcome mat for Chinese exports will do the trick.

Anyway there is no way ,no way at all I'd be dipping my toes into the property market in Thailand thats for sure,Spain looks a good bet with its massive housing stock unsold,the same will apply here in a year or twos time

[patrickinpattaya]

I think you can still make money on condos in pattaya, we've got a couple of places, ones in nirun we'll get back what we paid for it in another 18 months and another condo at flybird. You can pick up a condo at both places cheap, flybird theres are couple there now for sale ones 320k the other 350k. Nirun you'll get one for 400k

Thing is there is always a requirement for cheap condos for rent, non of mine have been empty for long. I think if you can get your money back in 5 years or less, its a good investment.

Pat

[Rimmer]

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[bow]

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[torrenova]

It is "now" or the imminent future that I'd be looking at ,not back to 2005.Personally I made five or six fold on stocks selling just before the crash,not really bothered on the rent saving aspect.

The world now is far different from just a few years ago, western societies are all on belt tightening exercises,taxes rocketing up,jobs disappearing, money getting tighter and tighter, the worst has yet to come,it takes time to filter through but filter through it will,the US or Europe gets a cold the likes of Thailand gets double pneumonia.

The Yuan now under pressure and about time too will bring the far eastern currencies down with a bump,the US pulling up the welcome mat for Chinese exports will do the trick.

Anyway there is no way ,no way at all I'd be dipping my toes into the property market in Thailand thats for sure,Spain looks a good bet with its massive housing stock unsold,the same will apply here in a year or twos time

Not really sure what you are trying to say except that you are a better investor than Buffett.

You seem to be against my argument for some reason but your rationale is off the wall. Quite simply, if you buy a condo rather than rent one, then the value of that condo must depreciate by the amount of rent you would be paying, offset by the amount of net income investing that money would bring, in order to make renting a better option than buying. That figure must then be discounted as you are effectively hedging against any future property rises and FX losses. In most cases, the argument for buying a condo wins hands down.

[bjoe97]

trouble is- who to trust?

my friend papa bought a place from a man called Santayana based out of northern rock or maybe northern thai

he completely tried too rip this old man off who was confident because of the official looking offices

they all seem happy to take the money, but not help doing the right thing and helping an old man with prostrate cancer get back his home/money

[jori]

Not really sure what you are trying to say except that you are a better investor than Buffett.

You seem to be against my argument for some reason but your rationale is off the wall. Quite simply, if you buy a condo rather than rent one, then the value of that condo must depreciate by the amount of rent you would be paying, offset by the amount of net income investing that money would bring, in order to make renting a better option than buying. That figure must then be discounted as you are effectively hedging against any future property rises and FX losses. In most cases, the argument for buying a condo wins hands down.

The value of the condo must depreciate (or rise) as you latterly state,true ,it's getting to the stage that any property here will be virtually valueless in next two years,every advertising board ,be it Carrefour,Village supermarket etc etc site is crammed full of property sale bumff,let alone the property agents crammed full of property to rent / sell, then pile on the agony of people who would like to sell but realising the impossibility of trying the great escape and attempting to sell

Easy to buy a place in Thailand,try selling,your virtually trapped here,the only way out is to mark time and try the renting aspect eventually hoping the property market picks up again and that is not going to happen any time soon ,if at all

Eventually you want to realise your dream of selling,then start adding your figures up,good luck to you,but it 'aint gonna happen

Perfect happiness here in Thailand is when your sell by date is up and your fed up to the back teeth with it and not owning a property, it is so easy to get out,it becomes a nightmare to be trapped by property.

Believe me,I've been trapped in property that turned into a nightmare the day that dawned ,a buyer was eventually found was my ticket to freedom

[torrenova]

The value of the condo must depreciate (or rise) as you latterly state,true ,it's getting to the stage that any property here will be virtually valueless in next two years,every advertising board ,be it Carrefour,Village supermarket etc etc site is crammed full of property sale bumff,let alone the property agents crammed full of property to rent / sell, then pile on the agony of people who would like to sell but realising the impossibility of trying the great escape and attempting to sell

Easy to buy a place in Thailand,try selling,your virtually trapped here,the only way out is to mark time and try the renting aspect eventually hoping the property market picks up again and that is not going to happen any time soon ,if at all

Eventually you want to realise your dream of selling,then start adding your figures up,good luck to you,but it 'aint gonna happen

Perfect happiness here in Thailand is when your sell by date is up and your fed up to the back teeth with it and not owning a property, it is so easy to get out,it becomes a nightmare to be trapped by property.

Believe me,I've been trapped in property that turned into a nightmare the day that dawned ,a buyer was eventually found was my ticket to freedom

Property worthless in 2 years time ? are you on drugs ?

The boards at Carrefour, Foodmart etc. have been full in all the years I have known. That is not unusual.

Go look at the price businesses transfer for and see why they are being traded at prices which no longer reflect their worth. Why ? because people cannot sell for the true price and thus, they hold out. That has been happening for over two years, nearer three actually and shows no sign of changing. Similarly, prices of small to medium condos will not fall so far as people will just not sell and for the very bottom of the market, there are always the Thai buyers.

Forgetting interest rates and lost opportunity, it is quite simple to work out that someone paying 10k a month on a 1m condo is going to be better off after 8 years and 4 months even if the condo becomes worthless. They have to live somewhere and once you accept that fact, there is no real argument against buying a place which has much validity.

[eljeque]

I agree with NOT WORTHLESS in 10 years or 20 or whenever, but 10,000 / month for a 1,000,000 bht condo is high rent, very high rent, and unlikely to be realized month after month without breaks, and does not include agents fees, repairs, maintenance, etc.

The problem with owning, the major problem is trying to sell. Buying property in Thailand is a little like buyng a new car in the West. If you want to resell it immediately, you will take a serious hit, and spend a lot of time trying to do it.

If you wait, you will get the value of your investment back in usage.

best of luck to you.

Edited April 18, 2010 by eljeque

[farangguy]

Pattaya storage

Anyone ever stored stuff there?

Would you be comfortable sroring things there for an extended period?

[jori]

Property worthless in 2 years time ? are you on drugs ?

The boards at Carrefour, Foodmart etc. have been full in all the years I have known. That is not unusual.

Go look at the price businesses transfer for and see why they are being traded at prices which no longer reflect their worth. Why ? because people cannot sell for the true price and thus, they hold out. That has been happening for over two years, nearer three actually and shows no sign of changing. Similarly, prices of small to medium condos will not fall so far as people will just not sell and for the very bottom of the market, there are always the Thai buyers.

Forgetting interest rates and lost opportunity, it is quite simple to work out that someone paying 10k a month on a 1m condo is going to be better off after 8 years and 4 months even if the condo becomes worthless. They have to live somewhere and once you accept that fact, there is no real argument against buying a place which has much validity.

Take a look at Spain,there are hundreds of thousands ,perhaps millions of properties up and down the costas,unsold ,never likely to be sold,just lying there ,worthless? not quite worthless but close ,and Spain has far more advantages than Thailand as far as quality of life is concerned.

People holding out for a price they will never get,well that is up to them,but again in their lifetime they will never achieve it,so a firesale now and again happens. If your convinced that there is going to be an upside in Thailand I'd say take a look at Spain property boom to bust was achieved

Its up to you anyway I'm glad I'm out of it,wish I could be arouind to see how far the prices here descend,off to Spain. pick a bargain up there.

[LennyW]

Cheerio jori ! I trust you will stop trolling the Pattaya boards then?

[jay1980]

If anyone wants me to take their worthless condo off their hands in the next few years, feel free to PM me. I will be happy to pay all the transfier fee's.

Not holding my breath for the rush a rush of PM's to be honest though.

[streetlife]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something. There are far to many I have met that use the same old chestnut excuse its not safe to buy because in reality they haven't got a pot to piss in and rent everything including their Honda Wave and the girl on the back of it.

[farangguy]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something.

I think this is one reason why people buy both here and in the West.

Think it's useful to look at condo prices as a multiple of rent. What do you guys think is multiple where one would be economically indifferent to buying or renting?

[Gary A]

It's always yap, yap, yap. I heard things like you're stupid, you're paying too much, why don't you rent, etc. I wouldn't advise anyone to buy as in investment here. I would advise you to buy a place you like and it is in an area you want to live. A place to live is like a security blanket for me.

I bought a 60 square meter condo when there were 41 baht to a dollar. It's really not important to me because I have no intention of selling it. It is rented to a friend of mine and I enjoy the income every month, but If he ever moves out, it is doubtful that I will rent it again. I miss having a place to go when I want to have a getaway from upcountry.

[Zstarx]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something. There are far to many I have met that use the same old chestnut excuse its not safe to buy because in reality they haven't got a pot to piss in and rent everything including their Honda Wave and the girl on the back of it.

Even if it's a 32 sqm apartment worth 400,000 Baht

[bow]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something. There are far to many I have met that use the same old chestnut excuse its not safe to buy because in reality they haven't got a pot to piss in and rent everything including their Honda Wave and the girl on the back of it.

Even if it's a 32 sqm apartment worth 400,000 Baht

Do you mean that owning a 400.000 baht condo doesn't count ? That it's equal to not owning a condo at all ?

[jori]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something. There are far to many I have met that use the same old chestnut excuse its not safe to buy because in reality they haven't got a pot to piss in and rent everything including their Honda Wave and the girl on the back of it.

Pot to piss in? you bought a house or a high end condo few years ago here, consider its true worth now is,no way in a million years are you going to get anything like you originally purchased it for. The guy up by the lake late last year originally paid 12 million,electric gates ,furnished even threw in his two SUVs,eventually sold it for 6 million,even at 6 million I would not want to get involved.

I got my money anyway from selling up,now I can choose the time and date to cut and run,and I tell you its the best feeling in the world,freedom to choose.No way am I ever going to be trapped by property.

[Zstarx]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something. There are far to many I have met that use the same old chestnut excuse its not safe to buy because in reality they haven't got a pot to piss in and rent everything including their Honda Wave and the girl on the back of it.

Even if it's a 32 sqm apartment worth 400,000 Baht

Do you mean that owning a 400.000 baht condo doesn't count ? That it's equal to not owning a condo at all ?

Yes

My respect for people isn't based on how much money they have

[JSixpack]

I seem to have much more respect for someone when I talk to them and they actually own something. There are far to many I have met that use the same old chestnut excuse its not safe to buy because in reality they haven't got a pot to piss in and rent everything including their Honda Wave and the girl on the back of it.

Pot to piss in? you bought a house or a high end condo few years ago here, consider its true worth now is,no way in a million years are you going to get anything like you originally purchased it for. The guy up by the lake late last year originally paid 12 million,electric gates ,furnished even threw in his two SUVs,eventually sold it for 6 million,even at 6 million I would not want to get involved.

I got my money anyway from selling up,now I can choose the time and date to cut and run,and I tell you its the best feeling in the world,freedom to choose.No way am I ever going to be trapped by property.

jori, your points have all been refuted by torrenova and others. But you keep repeating them, over and over. Why not move on to some other topic where you might be able to make a contribution? We're all SO HAPPY for you that got free, OK? Most of us here don't WANT to be free. We like living where we are in Thailand.

Property is like all other investments, with fluctuating value. It is less liquid than some others, but even if the market value falls after purchase, you can still use the underlying asset by living in it or renting it out. If you continue to live in it, you'll eventually either break even or make a profit IF you sell.

You want liquidity, buy shares on the share markets; but if you want to sell up after a crash, then you'll only get 50% or less of the price you paid. In the meantime, as torrenova said, you got to live somewhere.

For those who intend to live long-term in a property, anytime is a good time to buy. You can't predict the future.

[bow]

"I am sure the grapes are sour" said the fox.

[neverdie]

What should I expect to pay for a very small condo in Pattaya ?

You can find small condos about 30 sqm

in the 300,000 - 400,000 baht range

in Nirun Condo or Spanish Condo by example,

but I would live in neither of these places...

A friend of mine (Italian National) bought an apartment at Nirun for 400,000 baht. He had so many problems with it he suffered a complete nervous breakdown and was sent back to Italy in a drugged stupor. His Thai girlfriend still lives there.

Let me see, your friend had a nervous breakdown over problems in a 400,000 baht condo?

[torrenova]

In the meantime, as torrenova said, you got to live somewhere.

That point, as well as the rent filtering down the drain each month, seems to have escaped him.

[gguy]

I personally like a small condo. Easy to clean and A/C costs are lower. It also stops you from gathering "stuff" you never use.

I have never found that a really desperate seller. I have found good deals but no firesales.

With all the problems in Thailand, renting seems like a good choice. Although if I ever found a firesale, I might bite.

Problems with neighbors, construction, bldg. upkeep, problems in selling, etc. still indicate renting is the best option unless you happen on a firesale.

I would think again before you purchase.

[bow]

I don't know about Thailand, but where I come from you have much more freedom to do what you want in a condo. If you feel like painting the walls purple and the ceiling red, you can do that without asking for permission.

If you rent, you will need your landlords permission to make major changes like that. If you do get a permission, it will definitely be on condition that you re-paint the flat in the original colours when you leave.