Need To Get My Name On Birth Certificate

[siamkiwi]

I have a 10 day old son. Cute as a button by the way.

I was not in Thailand for the birth as the wee fella was a couple of weeks early.

The problem I am trying to resolve is, the hostpital would not put my name on the birth certificate because I was not here and we are not legally married in Thailand.

We have a New Zealand marriage certificate. We have started making inquiries but everything is closed for songkran, and I can only stay for a couple of weeks. I am sure I will get the situation resolved myself, but any information will be usefull. Especially, are there any time restrictions on this sort of thing. I don,t think I will be able to register his birth with the NZ embassy untill I have a birth certificate with my name on it.

Thanks

Edited April 12, 2010 by siamkiwi

[Mario2008]

You are marreid to the mother and by law the father. You are legally married as far as Thai law is concerned. The birth of the child must be registered at the amphur where the child was born within 15 days, or you get a fine. In your case it is not important who does the registration, that can be the mother or another family member.

That the hopital doesn't want to name you as the father is rediculous, but their birth certificate is not that important. What is important is the birth certificate you get at the amphur.

[siamkiwi]

You are marreid to the mother and by law the father. You are legally married as far as Thai law is concerned. The birth of the child must be registered at the amphur where the child was born within 15 days, or you get a fine. In your case it is not important who does the registration, that can be the mother or another family member.

That the hopital doesn't want to name you as the father is rediculous, but their birth certificate is not that important. What is important is the birth certificate you get at the amphur.

Thanks, I know that we are legally married but the certificate is pretty worthless to Thai officials. I probably need to get it translated and verified.

It seems the problem is with the amphor. The mother and law went and registered the birth before I got here and the amphor required some ID for me. Of course as with anything involving Thais and Thai buractrats organising anything on your behalf its always going to be a srtuggle getting to the bottom of it.

Edited April 12, 2010 by siamkiwi

[MikeyIdea]

As Mario2008 says, never mind the papers from the hospital, never mind the 15 days either actually because you are not going to make it in time anyway it seems. Doesn't matter, penalty is 1,000 bath.

Make sure that the formal birth certificate from the Amphur is NOT issued in another persons name, that is VERY difficult to change. Forget the foreign marriage certificate at this stage, it has no legal value here regardless of it is translated to Thai or not actually. You need to take the original and the certified true translation to the ministry of consular affairs on Chang Wattana Rd to get legalised (it's a bizy place, be there 8:15 AM, you can fetch it the next following day, if translation is correct). Then you need to take those papers to the amphur and get you foreign marriage registered, actually what you practically do is to get the wife registered as married to you, that's the only thing Thai officials care about anyway, where it happened is irrelevant. My personal opinion is that it is first after the amphurs computers show that the mother is registered as married to you that the foreign marriage certificate has a value in Thailand - it's done what it should do .

This you cannot get done before you fix the birth certificate anyway and it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be done before, it only affects custody, nothing else. The only thing the amphur needs is your original passport and copies and the hospital birth registration paper (not sure of the exact name of the form) with your name as father on. I have no idea what the amphur will say if the hospital paper doesn't have the fathers name on it but I would think that the amphur will process it if the mother and the father goes in person.

Good Luck

Edited April 16, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[siamkiwi]

As Mario2008 says, never mind the papers from the hospital, never mind the 15 days either actually because you are not going to make it in time anyway it seems. Doesn't matter, penalty is 1,000 bath.

Make sure that the formal birth certificate from the Amphur is NOT issued in another persons name, that is VERY difficult to change. Forget the foreign marriage certificate at this stage, it has no legal value here regardless of it is translated to Thai or not actually. You need to take the original and the certified true translation to the ministry of consular affairs on Chang Wattana Rd to get legalised (it's a bizy place, be there 8:15 AM, you can fetch it the next following day, if translation is correct). Then you need to take those papers to the amphur and get you foreign marriage registered, actually what you practically do is to get the wife registered as married to you, that's the only thing Thai officials care about anyway, where it happened is irrelevant. My personal opinion is that it is first after the amphurs computers show that the mother is registered as married to you that the foreign marriage certificate has a value in Thailand - it's done what it should do .

This you cannot get done before you fix the birth certificate anyway and it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be done before, it only affects custody, nothing else. The only thing the amphur needs is your original passport and copies and the hospital birth registration paper (not sure of the exact name of the form) with your name as father on. I have no idea what the amphur will say if the hospital paper doesn't have the fathers name on it but I would think that the amphur will process it if the mother and the father goes in person.

Good Luck

Thanks, We spent about 4 hours at the local amphur last Monday. Still no luck, everybody seemed to want to help but didn't know how to deal with the situation. In the end we were told to come back on Monday after Songkran when the big boss is back. I was hoping to avoid a trip to Bangkok with all the drama there at the moment. We'll see how we go on Monday.

Cheers.

[MikeyIdea]

I am sure that amphur tries to help, I always find them helpful and nice, good people, must smile and be polite of course.

I don't understand why the hospital does this... The hospital should not have a problem with naming the father on the paper they make, they should not have had any problems with that from the beginning but certainly not now when the father is here, Thai's do this all the time, it's rediculous. I'd bring the mother and the child to the hospital, make sure that the child screams, then nicely tell them to amend the paper, if they refuse then tell them nicely that they have no authority to do what they do and that the mother and the father demand them to amend the paper, without raising the voice of course but words should be hard. If they want to postpone until Monday, get the person you talk to to write down the full name of the person you are supposed to meet and the appointment time

The amphur may or may not agree to process with your name on the BC without a correct hospital paper but I still think that they will if mother and father goes in person, when the big guy comes.

You have one option if the hospital refuse to amend and that is that the mother has the right to refuse to name father, it's not good but it is better than that there is someone else's name there (which is what people will suggest - don't do that). The mother must state reason for not naming the father and she should make sure that that the reason is entered as she says it, the hospital refuse enter the fathers name (including the name of the hospital). I hope that it will never go that far but if it is done that way, the juvenile court should not have a problem ordering a change of the birth certificate and the hospital should have no problem acception to pay the lawyers fees

Good Luck.

[MikeyIdea]

was hoping to avoid a trip to Bangkok with all the drama there at the moment

Don't worry about the protesters, I work at Central World and has done so every day Just don't wear red or yellow

[hansnoi]

You are marreid to the mother and by law the father. You are legally married as far as Thai law is concerned. The birth of the child must be registered at the amphur where the child was born within 15 days, or you get a fine. In your case it is not important who does the registration, that can be the mother or another family member.

That the hopital doesn't want to name you as the father is rediculous, but their birth certificate is not that important. What is important is the birth certificate you get at the amphur.

have a question on this: if there is already name of a father on the birth certificate is it possible to change that, and if yes, how? thai gf was pregnant from farang, gave his name as the father after birth in the hospital and that name has been registered at amphur. Strangely enough she never had to show documents from the biological father and he never showed up in hospital or amphur. He doesn't deny that he is the father, but doesn't reply to any request to help to get his name deleted from birth certificate. Is there anything she can do about this?

[Mario2008]

That he is on the birth certificate doesn't make him the legal father. It only means that the person who registered the birth claims that he is the father.

If someone else is the the father, he can can make ask to be recognized as the father by going to court. A DNA test might be needed, since it is another person than is on the birth certificate.

[hansnoi]

That he is on the birth certificate doesn't make him the legal father. It only means that the person who registered the birth claims that he is the father.

If someone else is the the father, he can can make ask to be recognized as the father by going to court. A DNA test might be needed, since it is another person than is on the birth certificate.

thank you for your answer. one additional question: would a change also be possible by not stating any biological father? father unknown, for instance? the child is now 3,5 years old

[Mario2008]

I don't think so. But there would also be not too much point in. Right now the person named on the BC doesn't have any rights (or obligations). The mother has sole parental rights and the child has no legal father.

[hansnoi]

I don't think so. But there would also be not too much point in. Right now the person named on the BC doesn't have any rights (or obligations). The mother has sole parental rights and the child has no legal father.

thanks again. it s clear to me. want to make steps abroad in order to adopt the child or register myself as being the father. in my country there are rights and obligations for biological fathers, so i was wondering what I could do with a thai birthcertificate which mentions another name than mine. But i will find out, i guess. thanks again

[Mario2008]

If you want to adopt the chld, you will require the permission from the biological father. However. there are provisions for if he doesn want to give pirmission or can't be found.

In case of an adoption, you will have to go to an international adoption process, starting in your own country. If you don't do that, the adoption will not be recognised by your own country. It will only be recognised by Thailand.

[hansnoi]

If you want to adopt the chld, you will require the permission from the biological father. However. there are provisions for if he doesn want to give pirmission or can't be found.

In case of an adoption, you will have to go to an international adoption process, starting in your own country. If you don't do that, the adoption will not be recognised by your own country. It will only be recognised by Thailand.

May i ask you a final question on this? Do you know something about these provisions (in Thailand) or give me a clue where I can find info on what to do if a biological father doesnt want to give permission or cant be found? it remains a little bit confusing for me that in Thailand the mother can give a paternal name without him to sign anything or give his documents to confirm (reading also about the problem of Siamkiwi). Not for myself but for the little one I had some hope that this could have made it relatively easy to get his name of the BC. The person showed up one time after birth, saying you could see it was his daughter, and then afterwards despite visiting Thailand a few times never came to mother and child again or supported his daughter financially. I wonder what would have happened if the mother had started procedures here to make him pay to support his daughter! I guess his first move would be denial with the argument that the BC was given without any documented confirmation from his part. There must be more cases like this, including total opposite ones where financial support is claimed from men who are not the biological fathers. When I think about all the paperwork involved and the painfull side of this matter I wonder if the Thai authorities ever have taken into consideration to alter the birth registration procedure. Anyway, it is just a thought of somebody who cares and thanks you very much for your helpful comments and attention.

[hansnoi]

PS When looking for information I didn't search effective enough yesterday. Sorry for taking to much of your time. Have a nice weekend.

[siamkiwi]

Thanks for the replies.

Was at the amphor again today and they won't budge. It seems, to further complicate the issue when my wife arrived at the hospital and in my absence her brother put his name down when they admitted her. Now it is my understanding that this is pretty standard, but now makes him the legal gaurdian. The hospital is saying whats done is done and they can't (won't) change the birth certificate. The amphor are now telling me I need to get my passport and our marriage certificate translated into Thai and have copies of these certified by the department of internal affairs. (Any advice on how to get this done would be appreciated). They have also mentioned lawyers police testimony and DNA tests! It seems every time we go to see them they come up with a new story.

We have now sent a representitive who knows the big boss man to get a list of requirements.

So for now it's still wait and see. As far as I'm concerned this is total madness and a classic case of Thai bureaucracy tieing itself up in knots.

[Mario2008]

As said, your are not amrreid and someones name on the birth certificate is not enough to establish parenthood. You have to go to court to be recognised as the father. Since the motehr won't contest you are the father it is a relatively easy thing to do. Just get yourself a lawyer adn start the process.

I'm not sure of the consequences for the leaglisation of teh child under oyur own countries law, now soemone else is mentioned on the birth certificate. Check with your embassy about that.

[MikeyIdea]

Thanks for the replies.

Was at the amphor again today and they won't budge. It seems, to further complicate the issue when my wife arrived at the hospital and in my absence her brother put his name down when they admitted her. Now it is my understanding that this is pretty standard, but now makes him the legal gaurdian. The hospital is saying whats done is done and they can't (won't) change the birth certificate. The amphor are now telling me I need to get my passport and our marriage certificate translated into Thai and have copies of these certified by the department of internal affairs. (Any advice on how to get this done would be appreciated). They have also mentioned lawyers police testimony and DNA tests!

We have now sent a representitive who knows the big boss man to get a list of requirements.

So for now it's still wait and see. As far as I'm concerned this is total madness and a classic case of Thai bureaucracy tieing itself up in knots.

This is not a classic case of Thai democracy but a classic case of Thais not finding out what the rules really are. There is no law that father must be present to get fathers name on hospitals paper - that's what started it all, and the rest is just a free ride on that mistake from that on. Thai's are taught to accept - amphur says must have father - mother accepts and provides it without questioning, tells us a bit about why it is important for westerners to step up and take a controlling role in the upbringing of our children more than anything else.

"It seems every time we go to see them they come up with a new story." Yes... Look, the only way now is to go to court. It is important to get birth certificate corrected, i.e., the fathers name changed! People will say that that is not possible to do but you should do it anyway of course. I can't remember but weren't you married abroad? If that is the case then the child will automatically be legitimized and you will get shared custody when 1) BC shows you as father and 2) register the foreign marriage in Thailand

Get your passport and marriage certificate translated by a (good) certified translation agency and go to department of internal affairs at (the old) ministry of foreign affairs building (with original and translation). Drive along Cheang Wattana Rd, pass Thailand Post, pass CAT, they have now put up a large green sign saying “Government complex left” over Cheang Watana Rd., you can’t miss the sign, pass it with a few meters and you will come to the OLD low (approx. 3 storey) Ministry of Foreign Affairs building. Go into the building, take the escalator to the 2nd floor and then take the stairs to the left up to the 3^rd floor. The legalization area is just to the left. It’s a pretty busy place that opens at 8:30. Be there early and you can fetch the certification the next day. Use a not so good translation agency and they may ask you to correct something and come back again... Once you have what is needed to register the foreign marriage at the Amphur, go ahead and do it. It's a separate task from getting BC changed. After all, it is easier for people to *want* to change fathers name on the BC to the same person that the mother is married to...