Red Shirts Put Lives On Hold To Camp Out In Bangkok

[krystian]

The crops have been paid for in advance

[sawadeeken]

The Red-Shirt goal of DEMOCRACY can be illustrated as 2 wolves and a sheep about to vote on what to have for lunch.......... All of the RED-Leaders (with the backing of Taksin) have enough money to "live well"....... They don't have any concern for the economic problems being brought on to the country, or the poor.................

[pornsasi]

The Red-Shirt goal of DEMOCRACY can be illustrated as 2 wolves and a sheep about to vote on what to have for lunch.......... All of the RED-Leaders (with the backing of Taksin) have enough money to "live well"....... They don't have any concern for the economic problems being brought on to the country, or the poor.................

How can you say that ? They are the poor (the rank and file i mean). Or do you mean the poor are the governement ?

[vicco]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

[pornsasi]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Whether you agree with then or not, these people believe that what they are doing is important enough for them to make some important sacrifices. It is a pity that "The Nation" and some people on this forum cannot see that.

edit to correct typo

Hmm guess you missed out on the general knowledge that they're being paid 500 baht (without vehicle) to 1000 baht (if they have their own vehicles) a day. Take a look at the gear, the stage, the lights, sound system, mass availability of brand-new silkscreened t-shirts. This is a paid demonstration led by thugs disguised as a grass roots movement. Sorry to flatten your fantasy

They are poor people and they dont have the money to come and stay in Bangkok . No choice . But they are thais like others and have a right to protest . Do you suggest that they should protest in their village just because they disturb you ?

[Jingthing]

I suggest they have no right to disrupt the life of Bangkok for over a month. Holding the entire country to their unreasonable demands, and they aren't even willing to talk and negotiate one bit! Peaceful protest yes in a controlled setting of course. Occupying major commercial areas indefinitely, destroying businesses and harming other lives, attacking various "targets" violently, NO! A million times, NO!

Edited April 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[anotherpeter]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

Most of the other accusations can't be fought until he is here to defend them.

[bkkjames]

They are poor people and they dont have the money to come and stay in Bangkok . No choice . But they are thais like others and have a right to protest . Do you suggest that they should protest in their village just because they disturb you ?

I don't think anyone is saying you don't have a right to protest newbie, but we have an issue with holding innocent people hostage (closing down cbd) while doing so. Btw we said the same thing when the yellows took the airport.

[way2muchcoffee]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

The problem is that Thaksin has not stood trial for the other offenses. The wheels of justice in Thailand turn slowly. It takes years of investigation to prepare these cases. Moreover, these trials cannot proceed in his absence. Since he fled the country everything has been put into a holding pattern, awaiting his return.

Edited April 15, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[vicco]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

Most of the other accusations can't be fought until he is here to defend them.

Sorry, but than makes no sense. If he chose not to defend then he would/could be found guilty in abstentia---same as the conflict of interest conviction. As I have stated (repeatedly) all the charges were dismissed or withdrawn. Conflict of interest was the only one where there was enough evidence to bring about a conviction and even that ws a bit of a stretch. If he had been tried in a different court with a different panel of judges he may well have been cleared of that one too. I suspect that he chose his course of action (exile) because he knew perfectly well that they would convict him of something, being as the whole thing was more about politics than legal process and designed to put him out of action as a political force. I have yet to find anything from any source that justifies the intense name calling, character assassination and generally degrading nonsense voiced on this forum. Still waiting for something on Redshirt pay scales also...but again all hot air, not substance. I try to give reasons for my views and I do not reply to posts that are well reasoned arguments with one line meaningless statements even if I disagree with the argument. Good arguments deserve better than that.

[way2muchcoffee]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

Most of the other accusations can't be fought until he is here to defend them.

Sorry, but than makes no sense. If he chose not to defend then he would/could be found guilty in abstentia---same as the conflict of interest conviction. As I have stated (repeatedly) all the charges were dismissed or withdrawn. Conflict of interest was the only one where there was enough evidence to bring about a conviction and even that ws a bit of a stretch. If he had been tried in a different court with a different panel of judges he may well have been cleared of that one too. I suspect that he chose his course of action (exile) because he knew perfectly well that they would convict him of something, being as the whole thing was more about politics than legal process and designed to put him out of action as a political force. I have yet to find anything from any source that justifies the intense name calling, character assassination and generally degrading nonsense voiced on this forum. Still waiting for something on Redshirt pay scales also...but again all hot air, not substance. I try to give reasons for my views and I do not reply to posts that are well reasoned arguments with one line meaningless statements even if I disagree with the argument. Good arguments deserve better than that.

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

[slapout]

vicco; To start with "sorry, that makes no sense" seems to be a common statement by many farang here. 2much coffee answered correctly as per the legal people statements. There are, to put it mildly, several cases awaiting his presence so as they can continue.

He was found guilty of perjury in one case but sadly, the statue of limitation had run out. I would surmise that he learned from that little episode and that could be things which direct his actions and proposals, whatever they may be.

[jitenshaman]

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

I dont believe Robert Mugabe has ever been convicted of anything either, nor for that matter, was Idi Amin. The following is excerpted from the Intl. Center on Human Rights and Drug Policies website, http://www.humanrightsanddrugs.org/?cat=20 If you search the NY Times, The Independent, and Amnesty International you will find similar stories. Sorry to say, I dont think these are being made up. I also advise you to see the film Citizen Juling, which has plenty of the Thai rural poor talking about how Thaksin's missives affected their families. I'd say this guy was doing slightly more than just dipping his hand in the cookie jar. In fact, warranting of putting him up there with some pretty horrid figures in history.

In the case that led to the convictions, Nat’s squad arbitrarily arrested Jutaporn Nunrod in Bangkok on February 8, 2007, and then took her to a “safe house” at the Green Inn Hotel. She was stripped half-naked, subjected to electric shock, severely beaten, and had a plastic bag placed over her head for two days in order to extract a confession that she was involved in drug trafficking. Jutaporn and her family were also forced to give cash and a gold necklace worth 100,000 Thai baht (US$3,000) to Nat. Other victims of Nat and his squad claim they were subjected to electric shock, had plastic bags placed over their heads, and were severely beaten. Many also claimed they were forced to pay bribes in order to be released or to have lesser charges filed against them.

“These convictions were not an isolated case of rogue officers, but part of chronic problems in police operations that use violence and illegality to fight crimes,” said Pearson. “Police in Thailand have long had sweeping powers and have rarely faced punishment for often horrendous misconduct.”

Thailand saw the worst police abuses after then Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra launched his notorious “war on drugs” campaign in 2003. During this campaign, Thaksin openly pushed police to adopt unlawful measures against drug traffickers.

“There is nothing under the sun which the Thai police cannot do,” Thaksin said on January 14, 2003, adding, “You must use iron fist against drugs traffickers and show them no mercy. Because drug traffickers are ruthless to our children, so being ruthless back to them is not a bad thing…If there are deaths among traffickers, it is normal.”

In January 2008, a special committee chaired by former Attorney General Khanit na Nakhon found that 2,819 people were killed in 2,559 murder cases between February and April in 2003 as part of Thaksin’s “war on drugs.” But despite many promises by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to bring those responsible for the “war on drugs” murders and related abuses to justice, no action has ensued. Many police officers implicated in this inquiry and follow-up investigations by the Justice Ministry’s Department of Special Investigation remain in office. Many have even been promoted. The failure to hold abusive police accountable makes it more likely that killings, torture, and extortion will happen again, especially in the context of drug suppression operations, said Human Rights Watch.

[SiangDeeMahk]

Well someone should try to point out to them a world wide problem The top 20% have 80% of the wealth everywhere on the planet, and that will never ever change. So they had better get used to it.

Thank you, Mosha.. that was a brilliant post.

"That is the way, and that's the way it IS" (lyrics from the song "It's like that" - Run DMC, circa 1984)

And, for the poster that mentioned that South Africa wasn't seeing protests by educated students, yes, that's true.

But the people that WERE protesting, weren't BEING FUNDED FROM A SINGLE ENTITY to be there. They also didn't ONLY come to the central urban center to disrupt the lives and businesses of completely innocent people (peaceful demonstrations; MY ASS). That's not democracy, it's a puppetshow with agendas.

Back to here in Thailand:

The in-season fields back home (in 44 provinces) are drought-burned, and Dear "Uncle Taksi" is layin out traveling money, and in fact, rather handsome day-wages (compared to what some of these people make in a day), and not EVERY Redshirt you see marching owns a farm; some of them just work on farms, or in farm-related vocations, like harvest-machine rental/maintenance, food processing/packing facilities & transport, etc.. (it's not ALL illegal foreign labor, you know).

With really <removed>-all to do in the dry cracked earth back home, can you really not see the true motive of most of the "protesters"? To come sliding down to the big city, in the huge Red all day/all night party.. to BBQ, picnic, eat, drink, tootle around in the back of a pickup with their friends, see shows (on the Red stages {very good to get some fun endorphins pumping}), go to see professionally projected movies in airconditioned theaters (instead of a 20 year old film print being chewed and sliced to shreds in a 40 year old hackneyed projector hastily erected on a pile of rotten wood crates in the sweltering dirt parking lot of the local Wat, with distorted sound being shrieked from a 70 year old speaker box), and enjoy bathrooms that aren't just ramshackle wood shacks with porcelain holes in the ground? It's everything they love to do back in the sticks, but better, more comfortably, AND GET PAID FOR IT??

Why is that SO HARD for some people to understand? Perhaps, in a civilized country (not a 3rd world one), a protesting mob can be given credence, for being interested in TRUE democracy. But (and some people just can't seem to GRASP THIS); THIS IS THAILAND!!! It's not civilized, or advanced. Don't let the 3G phone network or the Skytrain fool you.

Now, to be fair, South Africa is certainly is a 3rd world country. But the democratic movement there against Apartheid, was born of the fact that the ruling factions were in the habit of sending armies/police/thug-tribesmen into their villages and homes to hack/shoot/rape/amputate them. I believe that explains the rise of an unpaid democracy movement in that 3rd world country.

That is not the case here in Thailand. No one's been sending groups of government SWAT into rural people's homes to kill them. It's just the ageless plight of the Haves and the HaveNots and the political tides those opposing forces generate. (and in this particular case, the efforts of a ruthless billionaire despot to regain his court appropriated ill-gotten funds and especially his ill-gotten power)

Oh wait! I just remembered: There WERE indeed SWAT teams that went into people's homes, and executed them, here in Thailand! And it happened under TAKSIN'S RULE, and under the guise of his "ask no questions - no arrest - no trial" War On Drugs Policy (I've heard that was actually part of a system to remove elements in the drug trade that could lead back to some important officials that wouldn't wish to have their hands exposed for being fully in the Golden Triangle trade).

So.. again.. enough with this "democratic movement" crap. It's a paid protest, as corrupt and foundless/faithless (and in the the scheme of things, pointless) as so many things are, in the LOS.

THIS IS ABOUT MONEY, CORRUPTION, and GREED FOR ABSOLUTE POWER, AS EVERYTHING IS, IN THAILAND, and many other 3rd world countries.

And really, western people.. how can you not know this? Is it really so hard to see? I personally see the Redshirt movement as just circling the drain (not increasing in size or support). Most Thais that I hear from, are sad for the deaths, but understand the mobs were pushed into harms way by the Red leaders, and clearly see that is was the doing of forces other than the government (why would the government want to so handily give the gift of some 16+ martyrs to the Reds, really?) It just doesn't make sense that the soldiers would go in there as a killing machine. (for many reasons).

The Thais I know are far from "falling" into support for the Redshirts, and are in fact more tired than ever of the whole deadly and pointless paid puppet show. The worst thing, is that with the Reds now consolidating into the business district (to mask their dwindling numbers), the ones with REAL power (the ones who are now losing 1billion Bath per day from massive closures of entire commercial areas) are going to have to enter the fracas, and.. I'm afraid that I don't think that's gonna work out so well for the nice jolly country folk, in town for their little paid holiday. And now with the Yellows planning THEIR counter-protest on the 18th? I really do fear that a full on civil war will erupt, with casualties in the thousands. All this, for that evil man in Dubai.

Poor Thailand.

[chadintheusa]

I suggest they have no right to disrupt the life of Bangkok for over a month. Holding the entire country to their unreasonable demands, and they aren't even willing to talk and negotiate one bit! Peaceful protest yes in a controlled setting of course. Occupying major commercial areas indefinitely, destroying businesses and harming other lives, attacking various "targets" violently, NO! A million times, NO!

With the closure of the numerous shopping malls and hotels it is likely that for every protester 2 or 3 Thais have been left without work. Hundreds if not thousands of small businesses have lost 2 weeks worth of business. That is just the direct impact, but with declining tourist arrivals and foreign investors worried about stability they are doing tremendous damage for the sake of bringing elections forward by a matter of weeks. Keep it up and rural Thais will enjoy the same standard of living as urban Thais in a hurry, they'll all be poor.

[pimay11]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Thank you for your response but that is precisely what I have done, plus a great deal more. If you read my post fully, I acknowledge that he was accused my many things (I did not bother to list them because as you say the wikipedia page alone lists them). My point was that despite all the accusations and charges against him all they were able to convict him of was "conflict of interest" which arouse from the land auction deal which was actually consumated by his then wife. Sorry I don't condemn a man for what he was accused of by his political enemies--anyone can accuse another person of anything. There is that small detail we seem to leave out of our discussions...proof of guilt. We seem to prefer to just blather on and on repeating the same nonsense over and over. Bandwagon effect---no authentication of anything that is said. We are divided into two camps---two solitudes.... facts don't matter any more. There are people in America who think G.W Bush actually organized the 9/11 attack...and that Elvis is alive and living on a S. Pacific island. People will believe anything...no real evidence or proof required. Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases. I would never have to face a jury made up of Thailand ex-pats.

Vicco I hate to burst your bubble but your statement "Its the same with the 500 bath payments or the previously touted 2000 baht payments...it gets said..then repeated and in no time it becomes fact regardless of any evidence to the contrary. People just make up stories to support their views and biases." but I have evidence. As stated in a previous post I live in a village in Esaan with about 4,000 households. The village head is my wife's uncle. There are presently approximately 250 good and honest hard working people from this village in Bangkok who have joined the red rally. According to the village head they are receiving 500 Baht per day plus free food. He has no reason to lie to my wife. These folks have nothing to do as now it is the dry season and rice planting will come in one or two months with the rain. So they made the choice to go to Bangkok, receive money each day, send back to their familes. Why not? Economics. They don't have a clue as to the meaning of democracy. They do have a clue as to the meaning of 500 Baht per day.

[NCFC]

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

If that is correct then it would mean that Thaksin is not a convicted criminal. Is that what you are saying? Because on TV, I read nothing but Thaksin being a convicted criminal, whereas if you are correct then it was merely a civil case against him.

Can you explain why Thaksin is a convicted criminal if the case was a civil one?

[chadintheusa]

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

If that is correct then it would mean that Thaksin is not a convicted criminal. Is that what you are saying? Because on TV, I read nothing but Thaksin being a convicted criminal, whereas if you are correct then it was merely a civil case against him.

Can you explain why Thaksin is a convicted criminal if the case was a civil one?

The criminal proceedings did go ahead because Thaksin wouldn't face them like a man. He was convicted and sentenced.

[pimay11]

I suggest they have no right to disrupt the life of Bangkok for over a month. Holding the entire country to their unreasonable demands, and they aren't even willing to talk and negotiate one bit! Peaceful protest yes in a controlled setting of course. Occupying major commercial areas indefinitely, destroying businesses and harming other lives, attacking various "targets" violently, NO! A million times, NO!

With the closure of the numerous shopping malls and hotels it is likely that for every protester 2 or 3 Thais have been left without work. Hundreds if not thousands of small businesses have lost 2 weeks worth of business. That is just the direct impact, but with declining tourist arrivals and foreign investors worried about stability they are doing tremendous damage for the sake of bringing elections forward by a matter of weeks. Keep it up and rural Thais will enjoy the same standard of living as urban Thais in a hurry, they'll all be poor.

Folks it all reverts back to Mr. T. He doesn't give a hoot about the well being of any Thai person other than maybe one of his cronies that can help him regain is ill gotten wealth. Especially he doesn't give a hoot about the poor people who are sleeping in the streets each night and enduring the heat each day under the guise of "we want democracy" spouted by his paid minions. But that's the way it is presently and I don't see this coming to a close as long as Mr. T keeps funding the reds. Sad but true.

[pontius]

Endless discussions, yet it's so blatantly clear:

- Right to protest, yes.

- Right to cause harm (physically, financially or in any other way) - NO!

Not in a democracy, and that's what they want, innit?

Politically motivated Thais (let's leave the 500 Baht / day out for a sec) remind me of hysterical kids throwing hissy fits when they don't get what they want right now.

Some maturity would certainly ... oh, I'm here for a decade, who am I kidding.

(I do love a peaceful Thailand though).

[way2muchcoffee]

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

If that is correct then it would mean that Thaksin is not a convicted criminal. Is that what you are saying? Because on TV, I read nothing but Thaksin being a convicted criminal, whereas if you are correct then it was merely a civil case against him.

Can you explain why Thaksin is a convicted criminal if the case was a civil one?

He was present for most of the Ratchada land deal case. This was criminal. He was found guilty and sentenced.

He was not present for the Assets Seizure case. This was a civil court.

Edited April 15, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[vicco]

“There is nothing under the sun which the Thai police cannot do,” Thaksin said on January 14, 2003, adding, “You must use iron fist against drugs traffickers and show them no mercy. Because drug traffickers are ruthless to our children, so being ruthless back to them is not a bad thing…If there are deaths among traffickers, it is normal.”

If a lot of western countries had a Thaksin around, we would not be having the problems we are having. Look at the US/Mexican border..it's a bloody war zone with the drug cartels running the war. Thousand of innocent bystanders get killed in the crossfire. Human Rights watch/ Amnesty Int can not do much about that but, if the Americans sent in a couple of infantry brigades and slaughtered ever one of the SOB's (Mexico is far to corrupt to do it themselves) these same organizations would be howling like banshees. Ohhh don't hurt the drug dealers...don't put the cuffs on too tight you are violating their human rights. We kill civilians- in a war zone...war crime...Taliban kills 20 times more civilians...dead silence...same kind of BS.

Drug trafficers have no human rights as far as I'm concerned...they give them up when they decide to get into the trade. Sewer rats have more rights.

The other interesting thing about drug trafficers is that they are always...always innocent. Yep I'll just bet all those folks who got wasted on Thaksins watch

were just innocent little boys....just like their brothers in Mexico. Like I said...some people will believe anything....especially if some bleeding heart at Humans right watch tells it. These outfits have to spout and publish---their funding depends on it.

[vicco]

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

If that is correct then it would mean that Thaksin is not a convicted criminal. Is that what you are saying? Because on TV, I read nothing but Thaksin being a convicted criminal, whereas if you are correct then it was merely a civil case against him.

Can you explain why Thaksin is a convicted criminal if the case was a civil one?

The criminal proceedings did go ahead because Thaksin wouldn't face them like a man. He was convicted and sentenced.

Really...we have just been advised (see hilighted text above) that "criminal" cases can not proceed unless the accused is present..only civil cases can be tried in abstentia

I really wish you guys could make up your minds...this is getting very confusing. The fact remains "conflict of interest" which was the conviction is a pretty minor offense and a 2 year sentence is pretty light by Thai standards...not exactly in the monster criminal category

[way2muchcoffee]

double post - see below.

That's twice today this has happened. Hmmm.

Edited April 15, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[way2muchcoffee]

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

If that is correct then it would mean that Thaksin is not a convicted criminal. Is that what you are saying? Because on TV, I read nothing but Thaksin being a convicted criminal, whereas if you are correct then it was merely a civil case against him.

Can you explain why Thaksin is a convicted criminal if the case was a civil one?

The criminal proceedings did go ahead because Thaksin wouldn't face them like a man. He was convicted and sentenced.

Really...we have just been advised (see hilighted text above) that "criminal" cases can not proceed unless the accused is present..only civil cases can be tried in abstentia

I really wish you guys could make up your minds...this is getting very confusing. The fact remains "conflict of interest" which was the conviction is a pretty minor offense and a 2 year sentence is pretty light by Thai standards...not exactly in the monster criminal category

The other criminal charges cannot proceed until he returns. That is my understanding from a newspaper article. And no, I don't remember the source. Perhaps you could find some evidence to prove this incorrect. I tii have searched for information regarding a list of pending charges for Thaksin and have come up dry.

Edited April 15, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Arkady]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

You are right Tony. The article is written by a gullible farang journalist with little or no knowledge of Thailand. More than one crop per year is not feasible in most of Isaan and certainly not in Surin. The income from attending the rallies is extremely welcome to most Isaan farmers because they have nothing much else to do at the moment.

[pimay11]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

You are right Tony. The article is written by a gullible farang journalist with little or no knowledge of Thailand. More than one crop per year is not feasible in most of Isaan and certainly not in Surin. The income from attending the rallies is extremely welcome to most Isaan farmers because they have nothing much else to do at the moment.

Actually the planting season here depends on when the rain starts. Normally it is May-July. You are correct on the harvest season, October-December.

[Arkady]

I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that in Thailand criminal proceedings cannot go forward unless the accused is present. The assets case was a civil proceeding and those can be concluded without the defendant present, so long as his lawyers are there.

If that is correct then it would mean that Thaksin is not a convicted criminal. Is that what you are saying? Because on TV, I read nothing but Thaksin being a convicted criminal, whereas if you are correct then it was merely a civil case against him.

Can you explain why Thaksin is a convicted criminal if the case was a civil one?

Thaksin came back for his criminal trial in the Ratchadapisek land case as he thought his legal team, the ones who went to jail for trying to bribe the court, could win it for him. Right at the end he got scared and decided not to jump bail and not come back from overseas to hear the judgement. The defendant in a criminal trial must be in court to hear the charges read out but the case may proceed in his absence, if he jumps bail after that. Civil cases like the assets case do not require the defendant to be in court, if he chooses not to appear.

[slapout]

The confusion, makes no sense, and or I do not understand comments by some, may be a golden opportunity for them to do some some actual research, study and analysis of various documents, news reports, investigative reporting. editorials, of Thai and international sources. TV has several people who have followed the rise of. and the progression of T from his ever so humble beginnings, schooling, work experience, license for telecoms, initial telecoms business, business partner departure from Thailand, other business ventures, entry into politics, more business deals, etc. From your comments, questions, statements, etc it would appear that you have not.

I have found that normally, those who contribute most to any discussion/debate, are those who have made an individual effort to acquaint themselves with the subject matter, prior to putting forth a argument or contributing to the debate.

[jucel]

i love it how people scoff about only 100,000 people turning up for the intial protest. compare that with a miserly 1000 people today at victory monument. Also compare it to the numbers that turned out in protest against the loathed health care bill in US. approx 1-10k depending on fox (10k) less if u don't listen to the nazis!!

Obviously they had to 'big it up' for calls of 1 million people but 100,000 is a lot if u think that allegedly 50% of americans hate the health care bill. thailand has approx 60 million and usa 300 million. work out the proportions if u care to do so but even with people being paid to attend it still shows the majority of thais by a distance support the reds! i think that 10,000 out of 30,000,000 is less than 100,000 out of 60,000,000.

enough said i think!!