Four Questions About "owning" Land In Thailand

[Tarragon]

Hi. I have a few questions regarding "owning" a house in Thailand. They might have already been asked and answered somewhere in the 24+ pages of this forum but I could not find where (I'm new here). If I missed them please don't bother re-answering, just point to the correct page. Thanks.

1- How does this 30-year lease thing actually work ? What makes it so safe that the official owner of the house cannot break it and give you a two or three-month notice before you are expected to leave ?

2- I think I've read somewhere — I wish I remembered where — that foreigners are not allowed to own Thai land but can own a house on it. Is it therefore possible to put the land in the name of my boyfriend and the house in mine ?

3- What about inheriting the land ? If he dies and has given me the land and house in his will is it correct that I am allowed to inherit them providing I sell them within six months ?

4- Finally, does anyone know a good lawyer (in Bangkok) that specalizes in these matters... and can be trusted ?

Thanks for any help.

[chownah]

Hi. I have a few questions regarding "owning" a house in Thailand. They might have already been asked and answered somewhere in the 24+ pages of this forum but I could not find where (I'm new here). If I missed them please don't bother re-answering, just point to the correct page. Thanks.

1- How does this 30-year lease thing actually work ? What makes it so safe that the official owner of the house cannot break it and give you a two or three-month notice before you are expected to leave ?

2- I think I've read somewhere — I wish I remembered where — that foreigners are not allowed to own Thai land but can own a house on it. Is it therefore possible to put the land in the name of my boyfriend and the house in mine ?

3- What about inheriting the land ? If he dies and has given me the land and house in his will is it correct that I am allowed to inherit them providing I sell them within six months ?

4- Finally, does anyone know a good lawyer (in Bangkok) that specalizes in these matters... and can be trusted ?

Thanks for any help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Taragon, Welcome to ThaiVisa (TV). There is a ton of stuff here which is relevant to your questions. At the bottom of every page there is a 'Search Topic' button and just to the left of it is a window which says 'Enter Keywords'. It works the same way as google. For instance I just put the keywords 'inherit land' into the window and pushed the search button...and...after a few moments .... a lot of posts appeared about inheriting land. Different people have different opinions about the law in regards to your questions so it is probably best to spend some time reading alot of stuff to get a feel for how it works....

Good Luck,

Chownah

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hi. I have a few questions regarding "owning" a house in Thailand. They might have already been asked and answered somewhere in the 24+ pages of this forum but I could not find where (I'm new here). If I missed them please don't bother re-answering, just point to the correct page. Thanks.

1- How does this 30-year lease thing actually work ? What makes it so safe that the official owner of the house cannot break it and give you a two or three-month notice before you are expected to leave ?

2- I think I've read somewhere — I wish I remembered where — that foreigners are not allowed to own Thai land but can own a house on it. Is it therefore possible to put the land in the name of my boyfriend and the house in mine ?

3- What about inheriting the land ? If he dies and has given me the land and house in his will is it correct that I am allowed to inherit them providing I sell them within six months ?

4- Finally, does anyone know a good lawyer (in Bangkok) that specalizes in these matters... and can be trusted ?

Thanks for any help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

# 3 cannot happen. A foreigner cannot be the registered proprietor of land under a will either.

[Rags]

Nice response Chownah -

Good to see a friendly answer to this sort of general query for a change, instead of the flaming or "for XXXX sake search the site" type responses that are often dished out to newbies.

Tarragon - Once you have got some background info from searching the previous posts, there are many on this forum that will be happy to answer any specific questions that you may have - welcome!

Rags

[Sumitr Man]

# 3 cannot happen. A foreigner cannot be the registered proprietor of land under a will either.

Dr. PP - please cite your authority for saying this.

In rebuttal:

...

Besides the aforementioned rules and conditions, an alien may acquire land by inheritance as statutory heir, in this instance, the land devolved when combined with the land already acquired shall not exceed that specified by law, for examples, land for residential purpose not exceeding 1 rai per household, land for commercial purpose not exceeding 1 rai, land for industrial purpose not exceeding 10 rais, and land for agricultural purpose not exceeding 10 rai per household.

...

Authority: Department of Land

http://www.dol.go.th/guide/land_080745_eng.htm

[dr_Pat_Pong]

# 3 cannot happen. A foreigner cannot be the registered proprietor of land under a will either.

Dr. PP - please cite your authority for saying this.

In rebuttal:

...

Besides the aforementioned rules and conditions, an alien may acquire land by inheritance as statutory heir, in this instance, the land devolved when combined with the land already acquired shall not exceed that specified by law, for examples, land for residential purpose not exceeding 1 rai per household, land for commercial purpose not exceeding 1 rai, land for industrial purpose not exceeding 10 rais, and land for agricultural purpose not exceeding 10 rai per household.

...

Authority: Department of Land

http://www.dol.go.th/guide/land_080745_eng.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what it says. It just doesn't happen.

[bangsaen bob]

Information concerning my name on land title.

My American lawyer friend called me last night. Here is what he said.

The Thai legal term "Sitthigapgintalordsheevit" is a translation from Roman Civil Law of the term "Usufruct".

He said the best way to describe it in our way of thinking is "A lifetime lease"

My signature is not required for the wife/owner to mortgage or sell the property, but that would not affect my rights to life time inhabitance. So, it effect, no one would buy it or loan money on it with my name on the title.

I cannot sub lease the property.

Potential problems, if the owner dies, that does not effect my rights, but maybe the new owners unlawfully force you out. Of course of the owner has a will, then it's carried out.

This is nothing new, but I guess not used much. Hard to say

It seem like a suitable way of helping to secure my assets.

Send me an e-mail and I will e-mail you the Thai document.

[email protected]

[Tarragon]

OK folks. Got the message. Hope I have not offended anybody. I'll try to get the hang of that forum and do my homework.

Stay tuned, though — I'll probably get back to you later with some much trickier questions...

Thanks.

[Crossy]

OK folks. Got the message. Hope I have not offended anybody. I'll try to get the hang of that forum and do my homework.

Stay tuned, though — I'll probably get back to you later with some much trickier questions... 

Thanks.

Nobody (well almost nobody) is offended

It just gets a little irksome sometimes answering the same old questions to people who have done minimal (no) real research.

Enjoy TV, there is so much valuable information here it beggers belief.

[xyz]

# 3 cannot happen. A foreigner cannot be the registered proprietor of land under a will either.

Dr. PP - please cite your authority for saying this.

In rebuttal:

...

Besides the aforementioned rules and conditions, an alien may acquire land by inheritance as statutory heir, in this instance, the land devolved when combined with the land already acquired shall not exceed that specified by law, for examples, land for residential purpose not exceeding 1 rai per household, land for commercial purpose not exceeding 1 rai, land for industrial purpose not exceeding 10 rais, and land for agricultural purpose not exceeding 10 rai per household.

...

Authority: Department of Land

http://www.dol.go.th/guide/land_080745_eng.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what it says. It just doesn't happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited June 2, 2005 by xyz

[JimGant]

Potential problems, if the owner dies, that does not effect my rights, but maybe the new owners unlawfully force you out. Of course of the owner has a will, then it's carried out.

That lease is pretty imposing, at least mine was when we got done at the Land Office. My name is all over the land deed as the lessee, good for 30 years (no formal option is on the deed saying I can extend for another 30 years -- agent said that was not recordable as such on the deed. I'll be dead in 30 years, so it's no big deal.) But I can't see where new owners of the land can legally force you out before your initial 30 is up......

Related to the above, the following from a Thai law site (see link at bottom of post):

Private Land Ownership Options

Laws regarding lease of property or buildings fall under the Hire of Property General

Provisions of the Civil and Commercial Code. Land, houses, condominium units, and other

buildings may be leased to foreigners for up to 30 years, with possible renewal for another

30 years. However, it should be noted that the renewal option might not be enforceable

against someone who purchases the property from the lessor.

So, possible renewing of lease for another 30 years could be queered if a new owner is involved.............But I wouldn't worry about the first 30.

See this link for some more Thai land law:

Thai Law Website

[JimGant]

One rai seems to be the magic number for foreigners in Thailand. Even the 'big bucks' folks are restricted to that number. I guess if the law ever allows me, a foreign peasant, to own land, I'll be restricted to one rai, just like Mr. Rich. Unfortunately, I'm 'leasing' from my wife over 3 Rai.

Code Amendment Act (No. 8) B.E. 2542 (A.D. 1999), Section 96 bis

 

The provisions governing the acquisition of land by aliens by virtue of a treaty under

Section 86 Paragraph 1 shall not apply to aliens who have brought money for investment in an amount fixed in the Ministerial Regulations. However, in no case shall it be less than

Baht 40 million, whereby the land so acquired for use as residence shall not be more than

one rai, and permission therefor must be obtained from the Minister.

[eddie11]

OK folks. Got the message. Hope I have not offended anybody. I'll try to get the hang of that forum and do my homework.

Stay tuned, though — I'll probably get back to you later with some much trickier questions... 

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody (well almost nobody) is offended

It just gets a little irksome sometimes answering the same old questions to people who have done minimal (no) real research.

Enjoy TV, there is so much valuable information here it beggers belief.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't answer then

[Dragonman]

The 30 year option must be recorded on the lease or as an addendum. However it is only an "option" and can be contested, especially where transfer of ownership is involved. The 30 year lease should be good as long as it is drawn up correctly.

[masterfix]

Hi,

First, sorry for my poor english...

I'have rented a piece of beach land in Ko Samui few years ago and build 5 houses on it, all in my name on the buiding license and the blue house books, the houses are rented on long term lease of one year minimum, and I paid taxes on my personnal income. With a house in your name you can also have a Yellow tabien ban, it's not very usefull except to have a land phone line in your name...

The best way to acquire land is always the company (with preferential shares for you and a mortgage with no limit date), or 2 companies where you have 39% in each and after registration you can make a tranfert share where each company own 59% of the other...and 2% for the others shareolders...

When the company own the land, you can rent the land from the company for 30 years ( have to pay a land office tax of 1.1% on the total rental price ), so by example 20.000 B a year. Your company will never be a sleeping company with the only purpose to own a house where his director lives in... and with the 20.000B you can pay the annual balance sheet.

After the rental registration you can ask a building license in your name...

For those who buy land in the name of a girlfriend/wife (or boyfriend), I wish you a good luck because how many times I have heard : she's not the same !, and when the house is finished, or when she learn about a mia noi, or...

Think about how many people divorce in Europe and the States too.

Everything if fine with my girlfriend and we have 2 kids, and when I buy something in her name I know that maybe it won't be ours for ever.

Enjoy your life here.

Dany

[quiggs]

Land in a business name is the only way to go. In the space of two weeks in high season I have watched 3 houses "appropriated" from the husband. I would rather be dipped in flaming dogsh*t than watch everything I have worked for slip away like that.

Hi,

First, sorry for my poor english...

I'have rented a piece of beach land in Ko Samui few years ago and build 5 houses on it, all in my name on the buiding license and the blue house books, the houses are rented on long term lease of one year minimum, and I paid taxes on my personnal income. With a house in your name you can also have a Yellow tabien ban, it's not very usefull except to have a land phone line in your name...

The best way to acquire land is always the company (with preferential shares for you and a mortgage with no limit date), or 2 companies where you have 39% in each and after registration you can make a tranfert share where each company own 59% of the other...and 2% for the others shareolders...

When the company own the land, you can rent the land from the company for 30 years ( have to pay a land office tax of 1.1% on the total rental price ), so by example 20.000 B a year. Your company will never be a sleeping company with the only purpose to own a house where his director lives in... and with the 20.000B you can pay the annual balance sheet.

After the rental registration you can ask a building license in your name...

For those who buy land in the name of a girlfriend/wife (or boyfriend), I wish you a good luck because how many times I have heard : she's not the same !, and when the house is finished, or when she learn about a mia noi, or...

Think about how many people divorce in Europe and the States too.

Everything if fine with my girlfriend and we have 2 kids, and when I buy something in her name I know that maybe it won't be ours for ever.

Enjoy your life here.

Dany

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Sophon]

# 3 cannot happen. A foreigner cannot be the registered proprietor of land under a will either.

Dr. PP - please cite your authority for saying this.

In rebuttal:

...

Besides the aforementioned rules and conditions, an alien may acquire land by inheritance as statutory heir, in this instance, the land devolved when combined with the land already acquired shall not exceed that specified by law, for examples, land for residential purpose not exceeding 1 rai per household, land for commercial purpose not exceeding 1 rai, land for industrial purpose not exceeding 10 rais, and land for agricultural purpose not exceeding 10 rai per household.

...

Authority: Department of Land

http://www.dol.go.th/guide/land_080745_eng.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what it says. It just doesn't happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find myself kind of agreeing with both of you but mostly with the OP.

Under section 93 of the land code (as quoted by Sumitr Man) a foreigner is entitled to succession of land as statutory heir. However, the registration of ownership by a foreigner must be approved by the Ministery of the Interior. I agree with dr_Pat_Pong that is not going to happen.

Under section 94 of the land code land aquired by a foreigner in violation of the law, or without prior permission, must be disposed of by that foreigner within a period prescribed by the Director General which must be at least 180 days, but not more than one year.

So yes, according to the land code a foreigner can inherit land, but in reality he will not be allowed to keep it, nor will he be registered as the owner. However, he will be able to keep the proceeds from the sale. Which, I believe, is what the OP wrote.

Sophon

[Sumitr Man]

Sophon:

2 things:

1. is the above post your opinion, or do you have authority to back this up?

2. under section 93, a foreigner is only permitted to inherit upto the limit as set out in section 87 (I think, don't have the code to hand - it could be 83). Currently this limit is 1 Rai (aggregate). So, if you inherit more than 1 Rai - 93 is of no help. The question is, and remains, if you inherit 1 Rai or less, can you be registered as the owner under s. 93? And, if you can cite authority that this cannot be done, I'll happily agree.

SM

[Sophon]

Sophon:

2 things:

1. is the above post your opinion, or do you have authority to back this up?

2. under section 93, a foreigner is only permitted to inherit upto the limit as set out in section 87 (I think, don't have the code to hand - it could be 83).  Currently this limit is 1 Rai (aggregate).  So, if you inherit more than 1 Rai - 93 is of no help.  The question is, and remains, if you inherit 1 Rai or less, can you be registered as the owner under s. 93?  And, if you can cite authority that this cannot be done, I'll happily agree.

SM 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most of what I posted was paraphrased from the lawyer I hired, when I bought a condo last year. Not that these things were relevant in my particular case, but the lawyer had a booklet with information on different legal matters, which he handed out to his clients.

I doubt if anyone can cite any authority confirming that a foreigner cannot be registered as the owner of up to 1 rai of land under section 93, as in theory it is quite possible. However, it´s up to the discretion of the authorities whether they want to to give permission or not. I´m sure that if you are someone important, that permission will be given, but for the average farang I doubt it very much.

So I guess you could say what wrote is just my opinion, based on the legal advise of said lawyer. I can´t guarantee that he knew what he was talking about, lawyer or not.

Sophon

[Sumitr Man]

Sophon:

Thanks.

It is not that I disagree with what you are saying, practically one would need to rely on the Minister's approval in order to achieve the aim [unless the aim was merely to ensure you could claw-back the liquidated cash from a sale, in which case the aim could still be achieved]. As you and Dr. P point out, in practice that may not happen.

However, I feel that with the mechanism in place, one should not say you cannot do something, unless one can cite evidence to the contrary. IOW, anything is doable, until it is not doable.

In my opinion, too many people in Thailand accept "You cannot do it, so that's that" without actually saying "Why can I not do it?". But that's just my opinion.

SM