Buddhism In Thailand - Its Past And Its Present

[eggomaniac]

I am posting this Topic for only one main reason; if the 'knowledgeable' denizens of the Forum would be so helpful as to say whether they would recommend this essay, link below, for reading, studying and memorizing.

Knowing, somewhat, the way my mind works, I would ask if you could give the essay a recommended rating on a scale, like how many 'stars' of five, or on a scale of 1 to 10, if you please.

My opinion, so far, is that is well written, well intentioned and scholarly, but I just plain, old, don't have the 'education' to say it is a great essay OR not. ['Tentatively', for starters, I will give it an 8 of 10!?]

If someone is tempted to say, curiosity of these issuses is clinging to self and not on the Path, or something like that, kindly start your own Topic on that, separate, Subject.

I just want to know if the learned members think this essay is 'worth' studying OR not.

Of course, for agreement, digression, or dispute on the contents, Comments on the material IN the essay will be required. In that case, please refer to what paragraph in the essay that is exemplary or controversial.

If This Thread makes one think, of some other thing that just popped into their head, kindly start your own Topic on any other issue not related to whether OR not this is valuable essay OR not.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...a/wheel085.html

[Brucenkhamen]

It's on Access to Insight, so you can rely on it being factual I think.

[Xangsamhua]

Not being all that "knowledgeable" I don't know if I should respond, but it's 5.25 on a Saturday morning, so why not.

The essay on "Access to Insight" appears to be a precis of Ajarn Karuna's short book (92 pp, pub. 1965) of the same title. This book was recently available at Kinokuniya Paragon, where I brought my copy. I don't have it with me (it's in my office), but from memory it's a perfectly straightforward and reliable account of the origins and development of Buddhism in Thailand up to the 1960s.

Karuna spent many years in India following his internment there during WWII. As a 13 year-old novice, he went with Phra Lokanatha, an Italian monk, and a large body of Thai monks, to India in 1933 to study English with a view to propagating Dhamma in the West. This mission is recounted in Kamala Tiyavanich's Sons of the Buddha (Silkworm 2007) pp. 5-6.

During the Sarit Thanarat period, Karuna was imprisoned at Lard Yao for being in communication with the Communist Chinese government.

There's an informative account of his life by Sulak Sivaraksa at http://www.bloggang.com/mainblog.php?id=ru...=1&gblog=99. He seems always to have been a morally upright man and a conscientious scholar. His years in India and knowledge of Sanskrit, Pali and English gave him a rich perspective from which to view the religion and culture of his native land.

Ajarn Karuna, born 1920, died in August 2009.

Incidentally, if you want to know about the influences bearing on Thai Buddhism today, I would highly recommend the three books by Kamala Tiyavanich about the Forest tradition, the impact of the 19th century monastic reforms, and the great Southern preachers (Bhuddhadharsa, Panya and Jamnien).

[eggomaniac]

It's on Access to Insight, so you can rely on it being factual I think.

Duh me. I hadn't even thought of hitting the Home Page button. Google had landed me on this one Essay. Thanks for that!

I can see now that access to insight has many authors and topics, so well organized and seems as 'official' and/or a 'legitimate' source of information as one can get.

I'll be starting on The Study Guide.

mercis beau coup.

I feel this is a 'trusted' site now, so I guess my question has been anwered in only 2 Posts.

tnx xang and bruce

[123ace]

It's just a historical account, there is no insight or social commentary etc. My observation is that the locals have made this ideology their own, and this in my view is slowly gravitating away from whatever was the essence and noble purpose of what was actually conceived by a man 2,500 years ago.

I was under the impression it was meant to be a 'faith code' for how conduct your life etc, that does not seem to be the case here as its more like going through the motions with a set formula of ceremony because that is what they are expected to do and it is how you gain luck or benefit, health, wealth etc. It seems to have little to do with a life code and doing good and not doing bad things to others. I like the original intention a lot.

[Xangsamhua]

It's just a historical account, there is no insight or social commentary etc. My observation is that the locals have made this ideology their own, and this in my view is slowly gravitating away from whatever was the essence and noble purpose of what was actually conceived by a man 2,500 years ago.

I was under the impression it was meant to be a 'faith code' for how conduct your life etc, that does not seem to be the case here as its more like going through the motions with a set formula of ceremony because that is what they are expected to do and it is how you gain luck or benefit, health, wealth etc. It seems to have little to do with a life code and doing good and not doing bad things to others. I like the original intention a lot.

"Making merit" in tangible form - food offerings to monks, donations, building salas, etc - has traditionally been regarded by most Thai Buddhists as the most legitimate and effective way of supporting the Sangha and, hence, supporting the Dhamma. It may seem materialistic and superficial, especially when done by people who seem to be little influenced by the Sangha or Dhamma in other respects, but it's probably not just "going through the motions" for Mr and Mrs Average, who usually lead reasonably ethical lives. (Katherine Bowie's 1998 study suggests traditional merit-making is not ethics-neutral, at least in the countryside.)

Unlike the prophet Amos, who hears God saying "I hate, I despise your festivals, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain-offerings, I will not accept them ..." (Amos 5:21-22), Thai people value ritual and ceremony and their accompanying offerings in cash or kind. They acknowledge intentionality and the inner workings of the spirit, but they want to see tangible evidence of it. Their tradition is different from the Judaeo-Christian one, but it should be respected nevertheless, until such time as Thai attitudes and values change, if they do.

[phetaroi]

"Making merit" in tangible form - food offerings to monks, donations, building salas, etc - has traditionally been regarded by most Thai Buddhists as the most legitimate and effective way of supporting the Sangha and, hence, supporting the Dhamma. It may seem materialistic and superficial, especially when done by people who seem to be little influenced by the Sangha or Dhamma in other respects, but it's probably not just "going through the motions" for Mr and Mrs Average, who usually lead reasonably ethical lives. (Katherine Bowie's 1998 study suggests traditional merit-making is not ethics-neutral, at least in the countryside.)

Unlike the prophet Amos, who hears God saying "I hate, I despise your festivals, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain-offerings, I will not accept them ..." (Amos 5:21-22), Thai people value ritual and ceremony and their accompanying offerings in cash or kind. They acknowledge intentionality and the inner workings of the spirit, but they want to see tangible evidence of it. Their tradition is different from the Judaeo-Christian one, but it should be respected nevertheless, until such time as Thai attitudes and values change, if they do.

Yes, my Thai partner will say that it is "for the monks", but realizes that others see it as earning merit.

[eggomaniac]

It's just a historical account, there is no insight or social commentary etc. My observation is that the locals have made this ideology their own, and this in my view is slowly gravitating away from whatever was the essence and noble purpose of what was actually conceived by a man 2,500 years ago.

I was under the impression it was meant to be a 'faith code' for how conduct your life etc, that does not seem to be the case here as its more like going through the motions with a set formula of ceremony because that is what they are expected to do and it is how you gain luck or benefit, health, wealth etc. It seems to have little to do with a life code and doing good and not doing bad things to others. I like the original intention a lot.

'just' an historical account? But: That is the title and purpose of the essay. If you click Library the overall website has many pages of information 'for how to conduct your life' and 'life codes'

Or; Did you look at those other pages on the rest of the website and find them lacking in "original intentions"? Perhaps you would then want to start a New Topic on the issue you are raising?

From a standpoint of this article and what it is written for, to show the introduction of Buddhism to Thailand of various schools, their rises and falls and rejuvenations, I'm to understand it is fairly accurate and a trustworthy source.

For me, the Topic has served to answer my question. It is 'seemingly' accurate history of Buddhism in Thailand, and I didn't even Sabajai on this one.

I am going to go ahead and invest my time in studying the Essay.