An Embarrassing Fiasco For Thai Government

[andrewbkk]

I have a theory...

Right now every higher positioned official is scared of what the outcome of this will be. The police are afraid to do their job too well, just like the military. What happens if... the ousted Thaksin manage to get back in power? A lot high ranking official will lose their jobs, imprisoned or maybe even murdered. So, it better to show up, but not confront too much. -Hey, we're her trying doing our job, you see. -But we failed to do it 100%.

I think that right now everyone is nervous. Just put the head in the sand and wait for everything to settle somehow. Then there will be business usual. A kind of coward strategy that probably work in a country where everyone is corrupted and no one wants to lose their position in any event. Try to act as if you were doing your job, while you will get away with your sanctions of not doing it doing it for real.

That's just my theory.

And an interesting theory, too. Bravo.

Another theory is that the police allowed the Red Shirt leaders to escape knowing that the episode would draw attention to the fact that they were staying at a hotel owned by Mr Thaksin.

[tomloughney]

I have been here for 13 years. I have always noticed that Thais will support the winner and not the underdog. That goes for sports, business, successful people, police, and generally government.

They do this so that they can be on the winning side and not risk being on the losing side because their bread is going to be buttered by the winner.

I have been frustrated when a wrong is being done, the Thai's know it but accept that the "boss" has requested that be done. They know it is wrong but will support the boss as not to lose grace.

Few people in this country think that they can be successful on their own, because if they are successful a "bigger" person will come and take it away, like the police and they are helpless to fight back.

This political exercise is just the start of lesser Thai's beginning to stand up for what they support, even if the "bigger" people don't support that.

The USA, yep I am American, had similar problems in the 70's with the national guard called out to quash the demonstrations, and that backfired on them.

I think that the quote "Democracy is the worst form of government barring all others" is quite true and unless you have a benevolent dictator or Monarchy it is the only way to go, and it is really messy.

I think that these demonstrations are far more civilized than currently take place in many parts of the world and as Falangs, who come from Democratic countries we should support this DEBATE and stop making fun of the "fat" guy climbing out the window, we all have "fat" guys in our respective governments.

[animatic]

I have a theory...

Right now every higher positioned official is scared of what the outcome of this will be. The police are afraid to do their job too well, just like the military. What happens if... the ousted Thaksin manage to get back in power? A lot high ranking official will lose their jobs, imprisoned or maybe even murdered. So, it better to show up, but not confront too much. -Hey, we're her trying doing our job, you see. -But we failed to do it 100%.

I think that right now everyone is nervous. Just put the head in the sand and wait for everything to settle somehow. Then there will be business usual. A kind of coward strategy that probably work in a country where everyone is corrupted and no one wants to lose their position in any event. Try to act as if you were doing your job, while you will get away with your sanctions of not doing it doing it for real.

That's just my theory.

And an interesting theory, too. Bravo.

Another theory is that the police allowed the Red Shirt leaders to escape knowing that the episode would draw attention to the fact that they were staying at a hotel owned by Mr Thaksin.

That would have been completely obvious even IF the arrests had gone through properly.

Saving their fuzzy little butts in case Thaksin wins, is more on their agendas.

[Oberkommando]

I think you're missing the point here. Thais have very strong national feelings -- Thais against Thais is just not in the picture! But that's what it boils down to, whether it be police or army vs. the mob! The same nationalistic trait would however make them a scary crowd for any neighbor crossing the border...

I think you've missed my point, the Cambodians aren't scared of their more numerous and better equipped opponents.

[geriatrickid]

I can say it.. and I did just that.

I think Thailand desperately needs political reform and could probably do better with an American style electoral system…primary elections (eliminates ship jumping) followed by a general election by the people (one man one vote). I feel the parliamentary style system they are using now completely lacks discipline...with corruption being a "normalcy" in Thailand, the current system has proven to run counter to the values of democracy. //My opinion.

They need to stop fighting and find solutions of lasting value.

Some will worry about vote buying…they say vote sellers would take pictures of their ballot card for proof. Solution… walk the voters through an airport scanner/metal detector to detect cell phones/cameras in line to the ballot box. Use regional voting centers, free transportation, etc. Expensive? Sure... and so are blackhawks, bomb detectors, and protests!

Please, NO. The U.S. sytem would be a complete disaster in Thailand. The primary system is a costly exercise in useless excess. Look at Presidential elections. After 2 years, the Pres has to start focusing on the primaries. Policy decisions and spending all become focused on luring voters and not on taking care of the real needs of the nation. Look at what is going on now as candidates are jostling for the mid term congressional elections. Empty hateful rhetoric, millions and millions of dollars spent on what? The McCain-Feingold campaign financing act shredded. If Thailand was forced to endure election after election people would tune out and turn off. Why do you think voter turnout is running at an all time low in the USA? Thais would never accept having their leader selected by an "electoral college" that does not have to accept the results of a presidential election . Most Amercians do not even know what the Electoral College does or that it even exists. Sorry, but the Thai system, while imperfect and in need of some refinements is better suited to Thailand.

Look at the gridlock in the USA Congress. Look at how many billions were wasted as funding had to be promised to secure support for the bank bailouts or the Health Reform. Now look at parliamentary democracies like Australia and Canada. Even though Canada has a minority government that must secure support from opposition parties on key bills, Canada was an economy that escaped the worst of the world recession and managed to earn the title (along with Sweden) of having the most secure/stable banking system. I will go one step further and say, those countries with the exception of the UK that had parliamentary democracies similar to Thailand were the ones that did well in the time of crisis. Sweden, Denmark and even the Netherlands all did much better. Germany with the billions lost in the US real estate crisis had a government able to focus on management and not on pandering because of primaries and odd year elections. No, sorry, the US system is really screwed up now and should not be held up as an example to anyone. Those tens of thousands of teabaggers protesting in the USA don't look too happy do they? And yet we see no such protests in other democracies. Maybe it is because the other systems, no matter how flawed, still provide an appropriate means of political expression to the populace.

Edited April 17, 2010 by geriatrickid

[andrewbkk]

I have a theory...

Right now every higher positioned official is scared of what the outcome of this will be. The police are afraid to do their job too well, just like the military. What happens if... the ousted Thaksin manage to get back in power? A lot high ranking official will lose their jobs, imprisoned or maybe even murdered. So, it better to show up, but not confront too much. -Hey, we're her trying doing our job, you see. -But we failed to do it 100%.

I think that right now everyone is nervous. Just put the head in the sand and wait for everything to settle somehow. Then there will be business usual. A kind of coward strategy that probably work in a country where everyone is corrupted and no one wants to lose their position in any event. Try to act as if you were doing your job, while you will get away with your sanctions of not doing it doing it for real.

That's just my theory.

And an interesting theory, too. Bravo.

Another theory is that the police allowed the Red Shirt leaders to escape knowing that the episode would draw attention to the fact that they were staying at a hotel owned by Mr Thaksin.

That would have been completely obvious even IF the arrests had gone through properly.

Saving their fuzzy little butts in case Thaksin wins, is more on their agendas.

You know so pitifully little that it it's actually quite amusing.

[animatic]

I have a theory...

Right now every higher positioned official is scared of what the outcome of this will be. The police are afraid to do their job too well, just like the military. What happens if... the ousted Thaksin manage to get back in power? A lot high ranking official will lose their jobs, imprisoned or maybe even murdered. So, it better to show up, but not confront too much. -Hey, we're her trying doing our job, you see. -But we failed to do it 100%.

I think that right now everyone is nervous. Just put the head in the sand and wait for everything to settle somehow. Then there will be business usual. A kind of coward strategy that probably work in a country where everyone is corrupted and no one wants to lose their position in any event. Try to act as if you were doing your job, while you will get away with your sanctions of not doing it doing it for real.

That's just my theory.

And an interesting theory, too. Bravo.

Another theory is that the police allowed the Red Shirt leaders to escape knowing that the episode would draw attention to the fact that they were staying at a hotel owned by Mr Thaksin.

That would have been completely obvious even IF the arrests had gone through properly.

Saving their fuzzy little butts in case Thaksin wins, is more on their agendas.

You know so pitifully little that it it's actually quite amusing.

If you're going to direct such a statement try and let us KNOW who you are calling stupid.

[Tanaka]

It seems pretty clear what happened.

1) The redsihrts were tipped off.

2) The police were delayed by elements in their forces and by redshirt supporters on the scene

3) By the time the police reached the leaders they were surrounded by an angry mob who has already shown the willingness to fight security forces.

4) The roads were quickly blocked by hundreds of redshirts.

5) The police were trapped, didn't have the will or the mandate to use force on the redshirt mob who had descended on the scene within minutes, and they were outnumbered.

6) Arisman's stunt was a PR gimmick, performed after the police had already been forced to give up.

Yes, there is some serious egg on the face of the RTP. They are publicly humiliated.

The only way this operation could have worked would have been to get in and out in under 10 minutes. They failed to do this.

The operation was a non-starter before they even got to the hotel. If you are going to do anything like this, the first thing you have to do is to establish where your targets are. In this case in which rooms the leaders and guards were. If you cannot do this, and they could not, then your mission will fail. Pathetic. Think it could be the base for a comic movie, The New Keystone Cops Undercover.

[grandpops]

I have been here for 13 years. I have always noticed that Thais will support the winner and not the underdog. That goes for sports, business, successful people, police, and generally government.

They do this so that they can be on the winning side and not risk being on the losing side because their bread is going to be buttered by the winner.

I have been frustrated when a wrong is being done, the Thai's know it but accept that the "boss" has requested that be done. They know it is wrong but will support the boss as not to lose grace.

Few people in this country think that they can be successful on their own, because if they are successful a "bigger" person will come and take it away, like the police and they are helpless to fight back.

This political exercise is just the start of lesser Thai's beginning to stand up for what they support, even if the "bigger" people don't support that.

The USA, yep I am American, had similar problems in the 70's with the national guard called out to quash the demonstrations, and that backfired on them.

I think that the quote "Democracy is the worst form of government barring all others" is quite true and unless you have a benevolent dictator or Monarchy it is the only way to go, and it is really messy.

I think that these demonstrations are far more civilized than currently take place in many parts of the world and as Falangs, who come from Democratic countries we should support this DEBATE and stop making fun of the "fat" guy climbing out the window, we all have "fat" guys in our respective governments.

You are so right with this post. Thais will switch sides at the last minute and they will all (mostly) be on the winning side. Somehow it works here and I respect them for the way they (generally) sort things out with some mysterious Thai glance or nod.

The Nation made much of his weight because they are no longer a newspaper. A better comparison would be the Football fanzines in england with their insults and taunts of opposing teams. Funny, but certainly not to be taken seriously.

I repeat my previous post. Imaging this in any supposed quality newspaper in the states or UK.

"Hillary Clinton hauled her fat frame up from the table (should loose a few pounds there) and was greated by President Obama and his porky wife, who had squeezed herself into an outfit that made her look like a used tampon."

Sneers and smears like this would wind you in court and any journo writing it would be out of a job. Do the writers of this drivel put their real names to it?

Praise the Nation if you like, but they are doing a great job for Thaksin by showing the world what is allowed as freedom of speech and what isn't ie anything against, Abhisit, Thuagabin etc.

[xenomorph]

An observation regarding American expats in this forum...

Please Confirm or Deny the following:

You're an American and a Republican: -Pro Thaksin

You're an American and a Democrat: -Pro Abhisit

Or... tell me if it's the other way around.

Edited April 17, 2010 by xenomorph

[peecee]

It's another snide piece and another nail in the coffin of journalism at Thailand's premier PAD mouthpiece. References to weight and appearance that would not be tolerated against other groups. Imagine a piece on Hilary Clinton referencing her body shape and appearance and ignoring all she said? Thats how low this pamphlet has sunk.

This was an assassination attempt. All the footage showed the room shot to bits.

They are now pinning their hopes on the Army. Are the Army going to run the country now if the Police can't?

Want to see serious loss of income, support and face for Thailand? Then let the Army go on a killing spree.

I think the smart move for the Reds is to negotiate with the Army. Then they all win, Army, Reds and business district. Leaves Mark and Thaugsabun out in the cold hoping that their 300,000 facebook supporters are enough to outvote 30 million red supporters!!

Mind you, stranger things have happened here.

where are the 30 million Red supporters.. 30,000 you mean... and for sure here the Army will go on a killing spree... give us some fun to watch on TV..

Lets hope you are caught in the crossfire.

Seconded!

[ballpoint]

It seems pretty clear what happened.

1) The redsihrts were tipped off.

The only way this operation could have worked would have been to get in and out in under 10 minutes. They failed to do this.

No, no, no, no....

That's not the way it happened at all.

The BIB entered the hotel lobby disguised as civilians.

But someone at the lobby recognised a policeman and asked him and his fellow BIB to remove their boots at the door as a good Thai would do.

By the time they removed their boots, everybody had already escaped.

So they started to put their boots back on, but in the tumult of finding each his own boots they were catched by the RED's and lead to their site.

The Police is now holding an urgent meeting to propose the use of slippers and flip-flops for their BIB.

I heard that the hotel wouldn't let them checkout the reds until someone had checked the minibar, thus giving them warning.

[grandpops]

It's not all Bad for the Government.

The BBC pitched in with this masterpiece of of a sentance regarding Mark and Suthep

Mr Suthep was in charge of Friday's failed operation to arrest several key red-shirt leaders.

He had announced that the police were there to take "decisive measures against terrorists" - the government's word for an alleged protest hard core.

Did Aunty ever fall for the Terrorist spin! This is one of the most skillfully crafted shows of complete contempt for a Gov spokesperson I have seen in a long time.

The Thai Junta must be spinning the press like mad and threatening them with all kinds of charges, WP problems, LM etc, leading them to their favoured MOB outside the Army barracks.

What a farce, a MOB complaining about a MOB. Wouldn't happen under Thaksin.

[JohnLeech]

I think every PM should be elected by the people at the ballot box. Otherwise I feel the system has failed them (the people and the PM) and all of these "fixes" are only temporary... forcing democracy to take a back seat.

You may be right as far as "democracy" is concerned, but I think you have misunderstood the constitutional role of Prime Ministers (PMs) as distinct from Presidents, Premiers, Chancellors, Taoiseachs, etc world-wide. As far as I am aware there is not a single country in the world that currenly has a system of direct election for its PM.

[LuckyFive8888]

An observation regarding American expats in this forum...

Please Confirm or Deny the following:

You're an American and a Republican: -Pro Thaksin

You're an American and a Democrat: -Pro Abhisit

Or... tell me if it's the other way around.

you gotta be kidding me.

what about the Brits, French, Russians, etc.?

[danc]

It's not all Bad for the Government.

The BBC pitched in with this masterpiece of of a sentance regarding Mark and Suthep

Mr Suthep was in charge of Friday's failed operation to arrest several key red-shirt leaders.

He had announced that the police were there to take "decisive measures against terrorists" - the government's word for an alleged protest hard core.

Did Aunty ever fall for the Terrorist spin! This is one of the most skillfully crafted shows of complete contempt for a Gov spokesperson I have seen in a long time.

The Thai Junta must be spinning the press like mad and threatening them with all kinds of charges, WP problems, LM etc, leading them to their favoured MOB outside the Army barracks.

What a farce, a MOB complaining about a MOB. Wouldn't happen under Thaksin.

It is called neutral reporting, though no doubt this will get shouted down and the BBC will be called closet Thaksinists, but they, along with the others in the western media are not just reporting what the incumbents would have them report - as a neutral in all this and living here, it is incredibly difficult to find non-partisan news and I have to say by that, I mean non government propaganda - the "English" newspapers leave little doubt as to where they stand, referring to things like the "red riot" when talking of last Saturday's confrontation, for example. The western media will not use the term 'terrorist' unless it is qualified first due to the very emotive and seemingly political way in which it is being bandied about. In a similar vein, you will notice that western governments have also refused to be drawn on last Saturday's event as well, beyond their obvious sympathies for the loss of life. Their own spokespeople are fully aware that the facts are not in as of yet and therefore to make comments would actually be passing judgements on the spin given by both sides - a very dangerous thing to do in diplomacy circles - it can be held as one of the reasons for apparent inaction on behalf of the incumbents - the world is really watching and has yet to buy into the "terrroists" running around angle, regardless of what people here on the forum might think....please remember that god knows how many people died in US, UK and Spain when western media's concept of 'terrorists' really did run amok..

[londonthai]

if they refuse to close, then cut the power, water supplies, revoke all the drink, dining,dancing and conferencing licenses.

you are repeating yourself over and over again, word for ford, on many other threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirt-Le...99#entry3510299

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirt-Le...94#entry3510394

if you are a security expert, as you say, you should come with some new, innovative ideas, than just cophying some hollywood film scripts

[hoilai]

This so-called attempt to capture a couple of red-shirts sounds more like a poorly thought out boy scout jamboree activity.

About time the PM sacked all the idiots at the top of the military and the police and appointed capable people to run these government facilties.

someone forgot to mention the top brass in the army and police are yellows and they are giving orders to 90 percent red shirt foot-soldiers.

dismiss all and start from scratch -just make sure no myellows or reds are involved in the army and police forces.

am sure the cambodians can help or the laotians or the burmese or....

that way , abhisit can be in full command....

[danc]

if they refuse to close, then cut the power, water supplies, revoke all the drink, dining,dancing and conferencing licenses.

you are repeating yourself over and over again, word for ford, on many other threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirt-Le...99#entry3510299

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirt-Le...94#entry3510394

if you are a security expert, as you say, you should come with some new, innovative ideas, than just cophying some hollywood film scripts

Not just a security expert, ex CIA no less - 15 years and still standing - wowzer!

[JAG]

Not just a security expert, ex CIA no less - 15 years and still standing - wowzer!

Ah, but do you know the colour of the Boathouse? :

A few on this forum will understand!

Edited April 17, 2010 by JAG

[4223rhodes]

At first glance, one is drawn to compare the overt beastliness of the Abhisit and Obama administrations. With the April 10th slaughter of Thai protesters and the repeated slaughter of Afghani citizens, they do have much in common. On the other hand, Abhisit represents the most conservative right-wing royalists while Obama is more of a middle conservative President.

[espinoza]

NEXT TIME THEY SNATCH THE <deleted>..ER. HE IS AN TRATOR OF THE THAI PEPLE AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS THAT.

[whiterussian]

NEXT TIME THEY SNATCH THE <deleted>..ER. HE IS AN TRATOR OF THE THAI PEPLE AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS THAT.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[Bagwan]

Many airports mate if you don't like it. So long as the PAD leave them open when you plan to leave. Surely it would be the final indignity for you if you had to curse the PAD for stranding you at the airport.

And please stop appologising for them. This is where the seeds to all of this were sown. If they had just left Samark, Somchia in charge they would have been voted out of office by now, and in all propability, Mark would be in his first year as Thailands best PM.

Sorry he got impatient and took the poison challis from his elite masters. HE could have been good for the country, (still may be in ten years time or so) if he was his own man...... BUT.... he isn't! FACT

You still don't understand how the system works here do you?

IF they had just left Samak or Somchai in charge, they wouldn't have been voted out of office until Dec 2011.

Because that's when the next election should be held. 4 years after the previous election.

Is that clear enough for you?

Please do not supply this misguided old fellow with material to further his wild rantings. Nothing will be clear enough for him other than his warped opinions.

A clue to his intelligence, intellect and learning may be gauged by his complaint over the use of the word sequestered. Maybe it is a word that he has not previously encountered; a quick consult with his dictionary, assuming that he has one, would show that it was quite apposite. Other consultations might have prevented him from making the spelling and grammatical errors that I have been kind enough to underline above. In his case clarity of thought and expression have, as my Aussie friends would say, gone walkabout.

In a previous post he complained about the influx of 'yobs' to Thailand which would seem to imply that he is not averse to a measure of elitism himself.

[Bagwan]

--snip--

No wonder the Cambodians across the border are relishing the prospect of any scrap with the better equipped Thai soldiers.

I think you're missing the point here. Thais have very strong national feelings -- Thais against Thais is just not in the picture! But that's what it boils down to, whether it be police or army vs. the mob! The same nationalistic trait would however make them a scary crowd for any neighbor crossing the border...

It didn't faze the Japanese much.

[jefro]

An observation regarding American expats in this forum...

Please Confirm or Deny the following:

You're an American and a Republican: -Pro Thaksin

You're an American and a Democrat: -Pro Abhisit

Or... tell me if it's the other way around.

It would be the other way around.

[jefro]

At first glance, one is drawn to compare the overt beastliness of the Abhisit and Obama administrations. With the April 10th slaughter of Thai protesters and the repeated slaughter of Afghani citizens, they do have much in common. On the other hand, Abhisit represents the most conservative right-wing royalists while Obama is more of a middle conservative President.

Obama is a middle conservative ??? Wrong !!!! Not even close. His voting record during his years in senate was the most liberal.

[jefro]

Not just a security expert, ex CIA no less - 15 years and still standing - wowzer!

Ah, but do you know the colour of the Boathouse? :

A few on this forum will understand!

This no boathouse at Hereford.

[jefro]

Not just a security expert, ex CIA no less - 15 years and still standing - wowzer!

Ah, but do you know the colour of the Boathouse? :

A few on this forum will understand!

This is no boathouse at Hereford.

[tominbkk]

Not just a security expert, ex CIA no less - 15 years and still standing - wowzer!

Ah, but do you know the colour of the Boathouse? :

A few on this forum will understand!

Except for being one of Deniro's worst movies........