Bangkok: Assailants Fired M-79 Grenades At Sala Daeng Skytrain Station

[fxe1200]

While I'm not in favor of elections being forced by a group of demonstrators, it may be the easiest way out of the current mess. All the reds would have to go home to collect their money to vote for the TRT, err the PPP of that's right, now they're the PTP.

Can you translate this abbreviation for me? It does not mean "Peoples Terrorism Party", that I am sure of.

[quiksilva]

Phuea Thai Party

[TAWP]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

Maybe, but on the basis that the train only covers a partial length of the platform (since we all moan about the fact that they should add more carriages for rush hour) I don't see that the odds that one would fall a couple of meters from each end and one in the approximate middle to be random. The trains stop at the same point since the door markings are on the floor.

Especially if the government claims these were fired over about 400 yards, it would seem a hel_l of a lot more plausible that someone dropped them on the roof of the platform and they rolled down the roof towards the gutter. What are the odds that fired over 400 yards with a hand held apparatus all 3 are in line within a meter and 2 land so accurately to either end of the train.

20 m shorter and 20 m longer and no one would have been injured because no stands at the end of the platforms. Hitting the roof is no guarantee of hurting anyone.

I don't mean any disrespect, but this is a typical conspiracy post.

You make assumptions based on unknown or flawed data and run with it.

Distance, angle, primary hit locations etc are all slightly diffuse.

Your assumption that someone dropped the grenades from the roof doesn't even make sense when we look at the impact-marks...

[Thai at Heart]

I don't mean any disrespect, but this is a typical conspiracy post.

You make assumptions based on unknown or flawed data and run with it.

Distance, angle, primary hit locations etc are all slightly diffuse.

Your assumption that someone dropped the grenades from the roof doesn't even make sense when we look at the impact-marks...

Ok I stand corrected, just thought it looked weird and extremely accurate on the video that is all. I didn't mean from THE roof, but a roof or adjoining buildings.

[AleG]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

I'm guessing here, but there is a pattern in the three holes from the video I saw, they are in a line along the length of the station. My guess is that it's indicative that the shots may have been shot from a point along the same line, since it's easier to aim for direction than azimuth is to be expected that shots aimed at one point would tend to fall short or overshoot along a single line from the point of firing. Now that would leave two possible firing directions, from under the tracks on the Chong Nonsi side, or from the entrance of Lumphini Park.

I think it should be possible to get a clearer picture by seeing the angle from the roof hole to the shrapnel on the ground to deduce the angle the rounds were coming down, knowing that and the type of ammunition it shouldn't be too hard to deduce the direction and distance they were fired from...

I'll be waiting for the results of the investigation, seated over there with a large stock of food, water and literature to pass the time.

[TallForeigner]

At around 9.40pm, repeated loud bangs were heard among red shirts prompting a hurray from Silom residents. It turned out later that the red shirts had lit firecrackers to celebrate the attacks on the Silom residents.

From The Nation.

Bold added for focus.

Various tweets reported it as Jatuporn went on stage said nothing to do with us and then turned the music up for people to dance. This followed cheering fron the barricades as the rockets hit.

Considering Methee has now said the UDD leadership ordered him and others to fire on the army on April 10 everything is starting to look quite bad PR wise for the reds

This is a very despicable style of reporting.

At around that time (around 9.30) it was announced down at the stage of the red protesters that the civil court has handed out an injunction to the government against the use of military force against the protesters. The response to that loud announcement which was repeated several times was even louder cheering and then people started dancing. From my windows we could hear and understand the announcements and the cheering let our windows vibrate. This had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of cheering about the terrible tragedy earlier at Sala Daeng.

I could also watch the "fireworks" in the area. Again these had nothing to do with celebrations. Repeatedly we could see and hear army helicopters flying over the Ratchaprasong area. Whenever that happened the reds were firing homemade "bong fai" rockets into the sky to scare the pilots. This happened quite a number of times last night. We could already observe the same thing the night before.

It's absolutely not fair to connect the cheering about the court injunction and the firing of "bong fai" rockets against helicopters to Red Shirts celebrating the tragedy at Sala Daeng.

Jatuporn announced earlier on the stage that he is sorry for the loss of life and the injured and confirmed that the reds had nothing to do with it. The reaction to this by the reds was rather subdued, and the majority was more concerned and confused than anything else.

[Grey11]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

Where is your proof that the red shirts are responsible? You're ASSUMING. Don't confuse people with lies before you have facts, please. Nobody knows who attacked who tonight. Nobody knows who launched the bombs.

the logic of people saying that the REDS did this is just the sort of response that is to be expected and wanted by those opposed the them - just another reason to send in the army with all its might and remove them -- there are so many good stories coming from the govt side - like no live bulllets used on saturday and then 24 hours later a senior ARMY doctor stated that those killed where hit by live rounds --- just who is going to keep believing all this missinformation -

for all we know it could be a faction of the yellows just trying to accelarate the situation or even the so called peace loving pinks -- what next - maybe the rainbow warriors --- but to have everyone jumping on the anti red band wagon and point the fingerr - come on -- believe 20% of what u read -- and then divide by 2 --

the fact is that the whole truth will never come out and what ever sided did it - shame on them - but lets hold off to judge - i still for one dont thnk the reds had anything to gain apart from turning more people against them and what they really want is more support - so why the hel_l would they do this - ???? these sort of actions will turn everyone against them --

Because they (the Red Shirts) are ignorant and not capable of rational thinking or behavior. There aim is to overthrow the government by any means necessary. Any thinking person would have no doubt in their minds that Red Shirts fired the grenades. People saw it. Red Shirts see everyone in Bangkok as some kind of elite. These people have low self esteems and little if any education and blame their station in life on the what they think are all elites that live in Bangkok. To them it is two things: Get Thaksin back in Power & hurt the economy (they think only the wealthy are hurt by their closing of hotels, restaurants, shopping centers - many poor work in these establishments) of what they see as the "elites" in Bkk.

For 5 weeks they have been trying to incite riots in their quest to overthrow the government & have done all in their power to force the PM to order the soldiers to stop them - the only way they can be stopped - by shooting some of them. Then the world media can continue its dumb reporting that this whole thing is about "democracy" these poor who don't have clothes to wear, food to eat and are slaves to the rich in Bkk are just trying to be treated as human beings by a repressive dictatorship. First, other than the leaders who encourage these uneducated masses to commit violence, the avg. Red Shirt has no idea what "democracy" is nor can they spell it. Not 1 in 100 can even carry on a conversation in English. This is about Thaksin and his trying to ruin the entire structure of Thai society so that he can come back and wear a crown. 5 weeks and the military cannot even drive away a mob of peasants. The Thai military and Thai police are the most incompetent I have ever seen in my life. God help us if the bloody generals in Burma - friends of Thaksin - decide to take Thailand. Thailand would lose the war in a week.

[Grey11]

NEWS FLASH:

There cannot be any confusion . We probably will never know who launched the grenades.

But , it is fair to say we do have proof that this whole confrontation was provoked by the government !!!

If not, why would the government under any circumstances let the yellow shirts get near the reds to antagonize the situation. IF SILOM ROAD WAS DECLARED OFF LIMITS TO THE REDS ,,, WHY WERE THE YELLOWS ALLOWED TO PROTEST ,, AND CONGREGATE THERE . Why the double standard ? No government can claim to be that stupid ,,, and certainly not this one ,,, it was planned its obvious.

I was going to write a long reply , but its simpler to say you are wrong and each and every count. I wont bother to explain why as I can tell the effort would be wasted on you.

Excellent reply. You said it for me. Totally ridiculous. Some people in Bangkok are tired of their city being held hostage for 5 weeks and, as I do, want the Red Shirts to go home!

[kissdani]

"Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media"

Can somebody tell me, who from the list of senators was accused of vote buying, or were placed on an inactive post, or were accused of corruption, or how many skeletons they have in their cupboards ?

Or are they all honorable retired politicians???

No one, they are a clean and did well.

You can now say something about their demands:

"that the government stops manipulating state-owned televisions as well as private channels (such as TNN) providing only one-sided information"

or look into any other aspect of this statement.

[IMA_FARANG]

Just another point...if it was an M-79 grenade it can't be "thrown". The M-79 round must be fired from the launcher. The reason is that the explosive round is activated only by being fired. You could throw the round as hard as you wanted aginst a wall, and it wouldn't explode. The M-79 launcher has a 1/8th twist in the barrel. When the round is fired, the 1/8th twist causes the round to rotate as it leaves the launcher. It takes between 8 and 9 revolutions (rotations) for the explosive round to be activated. Then it explodes on impact. If it doesn't rotate, it doesn't explode. Internally, the rotations spin the safety free of the detonator, so the detonator can explode on contact. (maybe I shouldn't have told you that?)

Now if it is an M-67 grenade, that's another thing. I would have expected more sharpnel holes, however, from a grenade specifically made for fragmentation. But it might be possible that it was just on top of the roof, and a lot of the shrapnel simply went up into the air. But I still say the hole in the roof I saw, looks like a M-79 hole...which exploded on contact with the roof surface.

Edited April 23, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Grey11]

Seems the reds are losing support quickly, there will always be the diehard’s and the paid troops but the average person has had a gut full.

Don’t see how the opposition can win an election now, there are certain things needed to contest an election let alone win one. First you need a viable political party, the PPP,PTP or whatever the current oppositions name is now hardly qualifies. An opposition party is not there just to oppose everything they are there to assist in the running of the country by acting as a check and balance on the ruling party. They should be sitting on committees to vet and if possible improve any legislation put forward, to put forward their own suggestions, support good legislation and oppose bad not just automatically oppose everything and walk out of the house when they look like losing a vote as seems to be the habit at present.

They need sound policies and a manifesto designed to improve the running of the country and the lot of the people as well as good honest and intelligent candidates. Can anyone say with honesty that the opposition has any of those?

But then again in this country possibly all you need is money in the right pockets.

Seems to me that PM Abhisit has in fact done quite a good job given the circumstances he has been given. First there is the less than ideal coalition partners he had to accept, the world financial situation, then all the crap with the red mob and of course a less than cooperative police force and armed forces.

To lay the blame for deaths and injuries at his door is just ridicules. Clearly if the reds had never been where they are or have been in the past none of this would have happened. If they went home peacefully today and those wanted by the law gave themselves up it would be finished. But the ring leaders have worked themselves into a position where they can’t do that and they now need to continue to provoke those around them and hope for some miracle to save them from the law.

Taksin, the one who started all of this has gone about it in completely the wrong way instead of paying disruptive mobs if he had come out and proclaimed his innocence (which he did) then said that to prove his loyalty to the country and his concern for the people he would use his own money to improve the peoples lot by for instance; building free clinics in rural areas poorly served by hospitals. The Taksin chain of free clinics around the country would have got him a lot of support and what about the Taksin free university for disadvantaged kids.

Then if he had come back to face the courts and negotiated fines for his convictions instead of jail time he would have been free to go and do as he pleased by now.

To say the only way to resolve things is to dissolve parliament is not correct, that would only leave a vacuum that would be exploited by all and sundry leading to even more trouble.

The only way out of this is for the reds to pack up and go home.

Always remember that in a democracy the poor are more powerful than the rich in countries like Thailand because there are so many more of them. Thaksin was elected with a block vote from the North & Northeast and as fired up as the Red Shirt leaders have these people, if they turn out to vote their party, Pueai Thai Party will get 90%+ vote from the North & all of Isaan. Thaksin threw them some crumbs. He promised them more. And, his political party has learned plenty from that. Unfortunately these poor, uneducated people can be led by the nose like a sheep. They believe what their leaders tell them and will follow them into the very gates of H---.

[neverdie]

Can anyone sumarise the last 20 pages of thread for me please, I got the first bit on the 1st page about the M-79 Grenades being fired at the Skytrain Station, did I miss anything else?

[bkkjames]

Can anyone sumarise the last 20 pages of thread for me please, I got the first bit on the 1st page about the M-79 Grenades being fired at the Skytrain Station, did I miss anything else?

I hear ya.

Like all the other threads, a few posts about the actual topic and then the debate or yellow did it first, red do it now.

I wish the newsclipping section had a tagged one for master debaters and the rest pertaining to the actual news about the topic -but maybe that's what the daily updates are for - reprinting news 20 mins later than it appears on The Nation etc.

[peecee]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

Where is your proof that the red shirts are responsible? You're ASSUMING. Don't confuse people with lies before you have facts, please. Nobody knows who attacked who tonight. Nobody knows who launched the bombs.

the logic of people saying that the REDS did this is just the sort of response that is to be expected and wanted by those opposed the them - just another reason to send in the army with all its might and remove them -- there are so many good stories coming from the govt side - like no live bulllets used on saturday and then 24 hours later a senior ARMY doctor stated that those killed where hit by live rounds --- just who is going to keep believing all this missinformation -

for all we know it could be a faction of the yellows just trying to accelarate the situation or even the so called peace loving pinks -- what next - maybe the rainbow warriors --- but to have everyone jumping on the anti red band wagon and point the fingerr - come on -- believe 20% of what u read -- and then divide by 2 --

the fact is that the whole truth will never come out and what ever sided did it - shame on them - but lets hold off to judge - i still for one dont thnk the reds had anything to gain apart from turning more people against them and what they really want is more support - so why the hel_l would they do this - ???? these sort of actions will turn everyone against them --

Because they (the Red Shirts) are ignorant and not capable of rational thinking or behavior. There aim is to overthrow the government by any means necessary. Any thinking person would have no doubt in their minds that Red Shirts fired the grenades. People saw it. Red Shirts see everyone in Bangkok as some kind of elite. These people have low self esteems and little if any education and blame their station in life on the what they think are all elites that live in Bangkok. To them it is two things: Get Thaksin back in Power & hurt the economy (they think only the wealthy are hurt by their closing of hotels, restaurants, shopping centers - many poor work in these establishments) of what they see as the "elites" in Bkk.

For 5 weeks they have been trying to incite riots in their quest to overthrow the government & have done all in their power to force the PM to order the soldiers to stop them - the only way they can be stopped - by shooting some of them. Then the world media can continue its dumb reporting that this whole thing is about "democracy" these poor who don't have clothes to wear, food to eat and are slaves to the rich in Bkk are just trying to be treated as human beings by a repressive dictatorship. First, other than the leaders who encourage these uneducated masses to commit violence, the avg. Red Shirt has no idea what "democracy" is nor can they spell it. Not 1 in 100 can even carry on a conversation in English. This is about Thaksin and his trying to ruin the entire structure of Thai society so that he can come back and wear a crown. 5 weeks and the military cannot even drive away a mob of peasants. The Thai military and Thai police are the most incompetent I have ever seen in my life. God help us if the bloody generals in Burma - friends of Thaksin - decide to take Thailand. Thailand would lose the war in a week.

Sooner than you may think, it took the Jap's a day in 1941. The Thai's then switched sides & declared war on the UK, given Burma's hate of Britain; get packing boy's!

[clausewitz]

Because they (the Red Shirts) are ignorant and not capable of rational thinking or behavior. These people have low self esteems and little if any education

the avg. Red Shirt has no idea what "democracy" is nor can they spell it. Not 1 in 100 can even carry on a conversation in English. Burma - friends of Thaksin - decide to take Thailand. Thailand would lose the war in a week.

Assuming as you say the Red shirts are uneducated, ignorant and can't speak English do you think they should be allowed to vote at all? I ask because even the ignorant in western countries have equal voting rights with intellectuals, phds, generals ...

[fxe1200]

"Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media"

Can somebody tell me, who from the list of senators was accused of vote buying, or were placed on an inactive post, or were accused of corruption, or how many skeletons they have in their cupboards ?

Or are they all honorable retired politicians???

No one, they are a clean and did well.

You can now say something about their demands:

"that the government stops manipulating state-owned televisions as well as private channels (such as TNN) providing only one-sided information"

or look into any other aspect of this statement.

Thank you for this information!

[neverdie]

Can anyone sumarise the last 20 pages of thread for me please, I got the first bit on the 1st page about the M-79 Grenades being fired at the Skytrain Station, did I miss anything else?

I hear ya.

Like all the other threads, a few posts about the actual topic and then the debate or yellow did it first, red do it now.

I wish the newsclipping section had a tagged one for master debaters and the rest pertaining to the actual news about the topic -but maybe that's what the daily updates are for - reprinting news 20 mins later than it appears on The Nation etc.

Now thats a good idea. Fanatics use the left hand door, normal folk move to the right door

[snorkelador]

Because they (the Red Shirts) are ignorant and not capable of rational thinking or behavior. These people have low self esteems and little if any education

the avg. Red Shirt has no idea what "democracy" is nor can they spell it. Not 1 in 100 can even carry on a conversation in English. Burma - friends of Thaksin - decide to take Thailand. Thailand would lose the war in a week.

Assuming as you say the Red shirts are uneducated, ignorant and can't speak English do you think they should be allowed to vote at all? I ask because even the ignorant in western countries have equal voting rights with intellectuals, phds, generals ...

In my opinion they should be allowed to vote, but to make that vote meaningful at all, a serious effort to have free votes (e.g. cabins ensuring secret votes), curbing vote buying and ensuring that parties call campaign equally without intimidation or harm to health/life of the campaigners should be made. At the moment I just do not see how that is supposed to happen.

Regarding the equal vote of educated and uneducated, reasonable and unreasonable people, they are all allowed to vote on parties/politicians, but on some issues they will never be allowed to have a say. In many western countries you would no doubt have the death sentence reinstalled or executed far more often where it exists, if the general public had a say in that matter. Even if the majority of Thai people would vote for Thaksin coming back and being in charge with all the cases dropped, which I do not believe for one second is the case, it would still be completely illegal and basically the whole state order would have to be rearranged first, starting by abolishing the judiciary.

Reds fighting for true democracy my arse!

[AJBangkok]

Its not clear but one of the wounded videoed by the french reporter said he was catching the train when the blast occurred. There is a stationary train on the platform on the video. Does anybody know if the M79 grenades were fired when the train was entering or had just arrived at the station? if so it could hardly be a coincidence, and its possible that the objective was not the station itself or the mob on the ground but the innocent people alighting from the train or the train itself.

[agord]

Not in your life am I going to be ashamed. Violence is violence and should not be tolerated whether it is white, green, blue, pink, red or you. And, yes my allegiance is with the reds being I live in Essan

What a clown shoe statement to make - "my allegiance is with the reds being I live in Essan."

Eh? You are only staying there or are you a rice farmer Issan 4 life? BTW i don't believe that ALL Issan people support this rubbish. So I live in Phuket I guess I HAVE to be a yellow shirt eh?

[asiawatcher]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

What a crock... mob rule, paralyse a city, total lawlessness, and police who are 90% red supporters of their old criminal crony and many poor bastards in the army also from the North East who will not fire on their friends. Go figure - the violence was started by mercs to incite the problem which they did. The violence started by the powers that run the Reds. But comments from a poseur provocateur who supports cheguevara and hides behind his profile, no-one would expect anything less - another criminal in history.

[WAERTH]

Not in your life am I going to be ashamed. Violence is violence and should not be tolerated whether it is white, green, blue, pink, red or you. And, yes my allegiance is with the reds being I live in Essan

What a clown shoe statement to make - "my allegiance is with the reds being I live in Essan."

Eh? You are only staying there or are you a rice farmer Issan 4 life? BTW i don't believe that ALL Issan people support this rubbish. So I live in Phuket I guess I HAVE to be a yellow shirt eh?

Families of both of my ex girlfriends whom are in Udon Thani and Mukdahan provinces respectively are fiercely anti-red and anti-Thaksin. Also some other Thai friends of mine from Isaan (Buriram and Nong Khai) are anti Thaksin, so are my friends from Phitsanuloke and Chiang Mai.

Off course I also know Thais from Isaan and the North that are pro-reds but in my personal circle most are anti-reds and totally pissed of with what is happening now. And no none of them are rich (maybe the one from Chiang Mai being the exception)

W

[jcbangkok]

FACT: The reds come to BKK and bombing start in the city but not one bomb has been targeted at the reds and only effecting those who oppose them or sadly those innocents (including kids) who happened to be in the vicinity of the bomb.

Logic would dictate that anybody with a plan to create chaos would also target the reds.

[jcbangkok]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force

I guess you missed the news today and last night.

Or maybe we should just order police to never apprehend any criminal, especially when they are in a group, to avoid any possibility of a confrontation.

[SiangDeeMahk]

Two of the four were foreigners while the rest were Thais.

Just a question, what are foreigners doing there if they know it's dangerous???

Song nam naa!!!!

What do you mean som nam na you dingbat?

They, like I, may work in the area. Who knows? Whatever their reason their plight deserves some sympathy.

They, like all the other non-protagonists (innocent bystanders or passers-by) have the right to go about their life and not expect to get hit by a bomb on a railway station.

Gosh..I was just gonna let this one go (it stinks of trollpoop REAL bad), but it was buggin me so much.. so;

I'm no expert in Thai language, but as I've learned about Thai culture (and therefore, common use of Thai language), I can tell you that in addition to Barky's statement, I would like to conservatively suggest that the average Thai would NEVER think of using the "Som Nam Naa (สมน้ำหน้า)" expression (which means a gentle "deservedly"; regarding someone receiving minor setbacks involving poor judgement or some level of moderate greediness that causes a small to moderate loss of property, face, etc) about someone who's befallen serious or permanent bodily harm, especially if it's certainly possible that in fact, they became injured while NOT knowing that they were falling into harms way.

"Som Nam Naa" is hardly ever used in a genuinely mean-spirited way. And if it were, it would be whispered cautiously, confidentially into a "closest friend's" ear; never meant for the intended recipient's own ear. (I'm afraid a public forum would NOT fall into that category)

Losing a game of chess, because you were ogling the incredibly sexy Thai girl at the next table instead of the pieces on the board, is a fair application of someone lightheartedly "Som Nam Naa"-ing you.

Making a cash bet with a rival about something you should know about, then acting smug about your likeliness to win it, but then massively losing the bet, and face, and having to pay up bigtime might garner an appropriate "Som Nam Naa!" for your smugness.

Stealing your best friend's girlfriend, only to have her stolen from you 2 months later by someone better looking but of lesser stature than you, would be a sterner "Som Nam Naa" on you.

Someone blowing a tire on their pickup truck while out on the highway because they were so greedy as to far, far, FAR overload it, is a good example of the right time to use "Som Nam Naa" about the greedy driver.... but ONLY with a big smile, and probably only if you were about to help him change his tire.

However, if that same truck were to have swerved out of control, and then toppled over on top of another pickup coming the other way with three people in the bed, at highway speed, spilling both vehicles over and killing the people; flinging "Som Nam Naa" at the mangled bodies of the victims, or the (now indebted to take care of the next of kin for life) truck driver, would NOT be appropriate.

Any Thai that uttered that expression in that situation would be considered "ใจดำ (black-hearted)", and "คนเลว (evil person)".

To the topic; Innocent people have been murdered while waiting for a train, in the process of going through their daily lives. Whether they knew they were in harms way, or not, (unless they were knowingly/intentionally, by their actions of standing still on an elevated platform, endangering the lives of the persons that then might have then defensively launched the grenades at them {which of course, they weren't}), there is no morally or socially decent precedent (in Thai, or other cultures) for using an expression that means they deserved to be hurt and killed.

Perhaps a little sympathy, and a deeper study of the Thai expressions that you're borrowing and callously using would be in order? I don't know your personal story, but I will just say that just because you might have overheard a half-drunk, half-naked bargirl scream "Som Nam Naa" at you, one of your mates, or one of her mates doesn't mean you should use the same expression ad infinitum, without understanding it, first.

Thank you.

[jcbangkok]

Because they (the Red Shirts) are ignorant and not capable of rational thinking or behavior. These people have low self esteems and little if any education

the avg. Red Shirt has no idea what "democracy" is nor can they spell it. Not 1 in 100 can even carry on a conversation in English. Burma - friends of Thaksin - decide to take Thailand. Thailand would lose the war in a week.

Assuming as you say the Red shirts are uneducated, ignorant and can't speak English do you think they should be allowed to vote at all? I ask because even the ignorant in western countries have equal voting rights with intellectuals, phds, generals ...

Criminals lose their right to vote in the US ... at least while incarcerated and in a number of states even if not if they committed a felony.

[jcbangkok]

MCOT: Red Shirt is ready to hold new round of talks if government agrees to dissolve parliament in 30 days: Veera

LMAO .. we'll talk if you meet are demands before hand.

Send in the tanks.

[Chaimai]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

Idiot....who fired at Sala Daeng tonight?...grow up or do you want to be a pathetic conspiracy theorist all your life.?

I'd like to know who fired at Sala Daeng, yes. Do you have proof? If so, provide it please. Otherwise stop insulting people.

Does this count ? :-

Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said video records from security cameras of the BTS' Saladaeng station showed that m79 grenades were fired from the Lumpini Park Thursday night.

Thirachon said the security cameras of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration were crippled by red-shirt protesters who put black plastic bags over the camera or turned the cameras into the sky.

Thirachon said the BMA sought cooperation from the BTS to check feeds of its security cameras and saw that the grenades were fired from the direction of the Lumpini Park into the crowds on Silom Road.

[pedro01]

MCOT: Red Shirt is ready to hold new round of talks if government agrees to dissolve parliament in 30 days: Veera

LMAO .. we'll talk if you meet are demands before hand.

Send in the tanks.

I think Veera wants to negotiate the terms of his future freedom.

[Neurath]

MCOT: Red Shirt is ready to hold new round of talks if government agrees to dissolve parliament in 30 days: Veera

LMAO .. we'll talk if you meet are demands before hand.

Send in the tanks.

I think Veera wants to negotiate the terms of his future freedom.

Well, it's a 100% improvement on the original demand for dissolution in 15 days and a 3,000% improvement on their later demand for immediate dissolution.

At least it's some movement and perhaps shows that Red Shirt solidarity on infinite intransigence is breaking down.

Also indicates that Veera has moved away from the demand for Abhisit to leave the country.

A tiny little, infinitely tiny, ray of sunshine?

Edited April 23, 2010 by Neurath