Bangkok On Edge After Deadly Grenade Blasts

[pagallim]

Really my last post this evening (I have a busy day of sleeping, lunching, and watching football early tomorrow evening), however, having discovered Samuel Johnson, I leave you with a last quote of his, again from circa 1751, which (at least for me), sums up the situation of Abhisit:

"A transition from an author's book to his conversation, is too often like an entrance into a large city, after a distant prospect. Remotely, we see nothing but spires of temples and turrets of palaces, and imagine it the residence of splendour, grandeur and magnificence; but when we have passed the gates, we find it perplexed with narrow passages, disgraced with despicable cottages, embarrassed with obstructions, and clouded with smoke".

[TAWP]

Video taken from the red shirt side that shows a projectile launched from red side aimed at skybridge/BTS.

No idea of M79 or just "fireworks".

EDIT: Added URL

quite a good vid. Seem to be the grenades

That's no grenade, it's a rocket firework exploding in mid-air. The grenades used in Silom explode on impact, to begin with, they'd be moving much faster than the object seen exploding and wouldn't leave a trail of smoke behind them.

This isn't a smoking gun... well, it IS a smoking rocket, but no weapon per se.

The last one does infact look like a 40mm grenade being launched. It reaches a speed of 84m/s in general usage, which is perhaps why some people get confused. It's not a bullet. Slower than firework rockets at their peek.

[sawasdee2549]

It never ceases to amaze how many muppets can come out of the woodwork and expound, with theories and maybe divine intervention, yet not actually LIVE HERE, i.e. Not a bloody holidaymaker, you know, live here, have a family or business here.not just on the piss or shag, and actually have a life here.

Would really be interesting to get the numbers.

This forum was once a news/information and in some ways an educational site.

Now full of wannabees, apologists or agitators.take your pick.But many DO NOT LIVE HERE. so shut the <deleted> up please.

Too many voices, zero input.

[checazzo]

the country's international credability must be in question.

Thailand is a great place but international credability is not one of it's strong points and this is a gross understatement. Come on Thailand has never had credability and never will.

[sabai-dee-man]

I say full power back to the King. He's the only person in Thailand totally revered and respected buy the entire population.

It may seem an old fashioned idea, but Thais need to learn respect for something other than money again. It's a shame he's been too unwell over recent times. What these people are doing to his beautiful country must be devastating him.

Sabai Dee Man!

[whiterussian]

^ would be nice, but in part , thats what this is all about... when the above ceases to be an option.

Be nice to get a stable system before the inevitable...

Edited April 23, 2010 by whiterussian

[Siam Simon]

Going to bed, very interesting day. Good news about possible end to the violence, but bad news the mob prevailed in this manner, not good for Thailand. Also sad Abhisit's days are numbered, I believe he could have accomplished much for all Thais given more time and cooperation, and greatly improve the country's international standing. Hopefully he will return to be PM once again. Just my opinions, as you have yours. Good thread. G'nite.

I do agree with you. In spite of criticism of Abhisit (and nearly all well deserved), I think he was the right man at the wrong time. Essentially he was used by those who lacked the courage to face the public with their own ethics and idealogy. Nothing would please me more than if Abhisit formed his own party, selected his own advisors, and stood by his convictions.

Suthep will probably live to fight another day, so will Newin and most of the other political wheeler-dealers from all sides. Heck, even Thaksin, whose wheeler-dealering went belly up in 2006, has managed to stay in the game. Nice guys such as Abhisit and Chuan just get used, abused and chewed up, and we are watching the mastication of Abhisit live on air, right now. He was naive to take the PM job at this stage of his career. Seeing him sidelined and used as a PR man for the international media, frequently caught out in interviews by said media through being woefully unprepared (to say the least) by his colleagues has certainly made me cringe at times. He could have been an outstanding PM in a hopefully straightened future Thai political system. Time was certainly on his side. I suspect he's too tarnished now. Lets hope others such as Korn don't fall into the same trap.

[ppmacready]

As soon as Suthep appears on TV (toothless I noticed yesterday, so he can't bite) I immediately have to switch to independent foreign news outlets to verify his stories. Suthep could easily feature in "Liar Liar part II. While Suthep knew without due investigation that the grenades were fired by the reds, while everybody was looking to a rooftop and soldiers were scrambling to take the stairs in oder to check out a building nearby, Suthep knew precisely where the grenades were fired from. I do not doubt that he knows, as he needs a pretext to start killing more people and stay in power but at least do not embarrass your own forces. They just detained 5 people 2 reds, 3 yellow who were suspects. Those people had to be released right afterwards because Suthep has staged his absurd claim.

Suthep is a disgrace for the country. He is incompetent and power hungry. This turmoil shows also why it was a stupid thing to grant amnesty to coup takers. Coup takers are nothing more than criminals when they overthrow a elected government. Given the fact that the kangaroo courts in Thailand apply laws retroactively there is hope however, a new law can see the people who stand on the roots of this problem (Sonthi cs) go to jail in the future.

Given the fact that prosecutors do not have learned their lessons and still divert ny action of yellow shirt protest leaders the red shirt leaders know that they can do as they pleased they will not be punished anyhow. And if that is the case we just want to make a good breakfast and break some more eggs.

This government has refused to govern. This government was too busy making Thaksin a scapegoat for everything including the hot weather today. If Abhisit has sticked to his promise of reconciliation Thailand was still a good place for tourists and investors. But because Abhisit was only chosen to become prime minister because he is weak, inexperienced and easily manipulated by scrupulous people like Suthep he was put in the driver's seat He is still in the driver's seat only it is sitting a bit uncomfortable now.

The fact that the elite and the army put Abhisit where he is now shows that they are way dumber than the poor rice farmer they so despise. In times of crisis you do not need a man in his 40's born with a silver spoon in his mouth educated in Oxford who never proved himself.

It is time for a new Coup, and time to bring Anand Panyarachun back one more time. At least he has the experience and other than Prem he is respected. So where is the coup and where is Anand. Anopong should not become AnuPANG and kill hundreds of people. Abhisit has to go.

Oh, the Thais are so coup-minded! You realize that this is only another demonstration of weakness? The Thai community is very aware of the weakness of the state system. That's why you see all around so many occurences of not obeying rules and laws, inactive police and the deadliest traffic you can imagine. In my view this country is close to anarchy.

Beach's, Bitch's and anarchy.

Whats changed?

[brahmburgers]

I think it inconceivable that were Thaksin to return to Thailand, that he would choose to enter politics again.

What a ridiculous statement. Thaksin never left politics. He's the most power-crazed money-worshiping person around. During the past 100 years, there have been several instances when a Thai PM left office (sometimes in disgrace), and regained the top spot later - sometimes multiple times.

Right after being booted out by the Army, then caretaker PM Thaksin bleated; "I'm done politics." Yet, if you know anything about the man, you know that he's a compulsive liar. Virtually every public statement the man has made within the past 7 years can be shown to be a lie.

Knowing that, it's no surprise that his paid trouble makers (Red Leaders) are of the same ilk. The current rally started with claims of 'being peaceful', ....then there was the promise of 10,000 monks (the only monk joining the rally was proven to be a military man dressed in monk's robes), then there are the many lies denying there are combat trained men being harbored by the Red mob, and no grenades lobbed by their side, .....the lies go on and on.

Here's another lie in the making: The promise that all Red shirt leaders will turn themselves in on May 15th. No way will that happen. That's about as likely as T standing by his statement of returning to Thailand right away, if being allowed to visit the Beijing Olympics. Plus, how can fugitives be allowed to set the terms for their arrest? Only in Thailand, land of vacillating law enforcement.

Edited April 24, 2010 by brahmburgers

[kratiam]

I think it inconceivable that were Thaksin to return to Thailand, that he would choose to enter politics again.

What a ridiculous statement. Thaksin never left politics. He's the most power-crazed money-worshiping person around. During the past 100 years, there have been several instances when a Thai PM left office (sometimes in disgrace), and regained the top spot later - sometimes multiple times.

Right after being booted out by the Army, then caretaker PM Thaksin bleated; "I'm done politics." Yet, if you know anything about the man, you know that he's a compulsive liar. Virtually every public statement the man has made within the past 7 years can be shown to be a lie.

Knowing that, it's no surprise that his paid trouble makers (Red Leaders) are of the same ilk. The current rally started with claims of 'being peaceful', ....then there was the promise of 10,000 monks (the only monk joining the rally was proven to be a military man dressed in monk's robes), then there are the many lies denying there are combat trained men being harbored by the Red mob, and no grenades lobbed by their side, .....the lies go on and on.

Here's another lie in the making: The promise that all Red shirt leaders will turn themselves in on May 15th. No way will that happen. That's about as likely as T standing by his statement of returning to Thailand right away, if being allowed to visit the Beijing Olympics. Plus, how can fugitives be allowed to set the terms for their arrest? Only in Thailand, land of vacillating law enforcement.

Excellent post!

[billbus12]

hello i bought plane ticket online about 2 weeks ago i cant get a refund im flying may 28 to bkk im getting nervous now they can stop travelers from interring thailand do you think it will get better by then ..bill

[rixalex]

I think it inconceivable that were Thaksin to return to Thailand, that he would choose to enter politics again.

What a ridiculous statement. Thaksin never left politics.

Ridiculous indeed. Thaksin never left and he never will. He might have to take on a behind the scenes role because of the divisive he causes, but you can guarantee that it will amount to the same thing - him in charge surrounded by "yes" men.

[ozzieman05]

Many Thais say

It was safer in Thailand under the last Coup

Maybe its time for the army to save the country, we know democracy does not work

Yes, I could not agree more. When the coup happened I was in the US, having been here in March and returning nin Nov. When the coup happened I emailed a friend of mine and asked if she was OK. Her response was "Honestly G, I don't know anyone who doesn't support this" and sent photos of people with the troops. When I came back in November everything was calm.

The red shirts clamor for democracy in their rhetoric but it is just rhetoric, their real goal is to bring their boss back. Everyone knows that. And I agree democracy does not work, I've seen it's failure first hand living in the US for 55 years... I think that if there were a coup we'd see scenes like those my friend sent me photos of in 2006 - children giving ice cream to the soldiers, just as the people in Silom welcomed troops the other day with food and drink and smiles.

Reminds me of the German army welcome, as they liberated the gentle people of eastern europe...

read: http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=15955366

The Economist's approach is a familiar one in the West. I saw much the same on ABC Online ("The Drum") and I believe much the same again appeared in the New York Times and the Toronto Globe and Mail. (Maybe they're using each other's stuff.)

The model of historical change they adopt is that of the French annalistes and their successors, with perhaps a postmodern rejection of "the author". Events must be analysed in terms of broad social movements rather than the short-term consequences of political events or the influence of individuals. Hence, the red shirt phenomenon seen from this perspective can't be a construct of Thaksin, money and populism; it must represent a longer-term social shift. As a consequence, those who point to Thaksin, money-politics, corruption, manipulation of the masses, media, etc. must be seen as short-sighted and missing the big picture.

The trouble is, in trying to get your head around the big picture all the time, you can lose sight of all the little pictures on the ground; in fact, to mix metaphors, you can lose sight of the elephant in the room. Western journalists are the product of their education and training and some have benefited greatly from it. It is wise to keep an eye on the base, not just the superstructure, but it's not the whole picture and often can lead to a skewed interpretation, especially when analyzing such a culturally different phenomenon as conflict resolution in Thailand.

Can tou please translate into Thai so the wife can understand

I can not even understand in Engliah

[ozzieman05]

(((((On Wednesday, Thai Rath, a local mass daily, hinted that Thaksin might decide to fly into Thailand soon in order to salvage his sagging political base, with the defection of Newin Chidchob, the political kingmaker, and the possibility of the breaking apart of the Pheu Thai Party.

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million? ))))

What really should be said is

The army and the Police can not touch the Red leaders because they are protected by the red shists

If Taskin return the protection by the red shirts will be 10 times stonger

If Taskin returns ti Thailand he will be as free as the masses that protect him allow

Their is NO LAW & Order in Thailand

Today Thailand is at the rule of the MOB

wake up and face the facts

Its all over

[ivowatson]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

Let's tell all the idiots once and for all why it's not possible to let them vote. Because after that election, whoever wins, there will be protests to demand that new government dissolve the house immediately, citing vote buying, not acceptable members of the government or whatever. And the protesters will stay and kill as long as it takes. Capice?

[melbpete]

hello i bought plane ticket online about 2 weeks ago i cant get a refund im flying may 28 to bkk im getting nervous now they can stop travelers from interring thailand do you think it will get better by then ..bill

That's a month away. Who knows.

But overall unless the airport is closed, you will get in. Then it's only a problem if you are staying near that protests, if they are still going then.

[LevelHead]

(((((On Wednesday, Thai Rath, a local mass daily, hinted that Thaksin might decide to fly into Thailand soon in order to salvage his sagging political base, with the defection of Newin Chidchob, the political kingmaker, and the possibility of the breaking apart of the Pheu Thai Party.

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million? ))))

What really should be said is

The army and the Police can not touch the Red leaders because they are protected by the red shists

If Taskin return the protection by the red shirts will be 10 times stonger

If Taskin returns ti Thailand he will be as free as the masses that protect him allow

Their is NO LAW & Order in Thailand

Today Thailand is at the rule of the MOB

wake up and face the facts

Its all over

Can we get this straight please.

The "Thaksin down to his last 500m US$ and might come in" story was run in Dec 2008.

Someone has copied it word for word on to a blog sight with a new date of April 2010. Its just propaganda. Someone who is anti-Thaksin trying to stir things up again.

What you must remember is that since 2006 coup there has been an unprecedented campaign of hate and slur and accusation against the man kicked out in the coup. Many people following April 10th have now seen how biased and controlled the Thai media is, and they are asking questions now about everything else in the past, just how true that has all been.

With regards to Thaksin if every Thai sits down and asks themselves "What did he do bad to me" then you will find 99.9% of the population can think of nothing he did bad for them personally.

Control of the "populace mind" through manipulation of the media is the 21st century, it was also used quite well in the late 20th century.

To put it bluntly, there are some people who have put everything on making Thaksin out to be a criminal, put everything on dragging his name through the dirt and finishing him off.

For them its now 4 years down the line and yet all their work has not had the results they needed and in fact many aspects are now crumbling down revealing the naked truth of the system.

These people have everything to lose. For the Thai population if Thaksin comes back it will have no negative effect on 99.9% of the people.

However, for those who put everything into the coup, manufacturing "evidence" and disgracing him, his return would signal their demise.

Retribution and revenge against them would be swift no doubt.

Therefore you can see why a small amount of people remain so vehemently anti-Thaksin and retain control of the media, for if their near 5 year campaign of propaganda fails, they themselves know its the end of them and their families.

For those unclear of Thailands past, when Thaksin was first elected as leader of the TRT, the people elected him with the view "we know he is corrupt but at least he will give us something". He delivered on giving them something.

The people to this day have not forgotten that, they also knew he was corrupt so you are hardly going to succeed in turning them against him with corruption charges as every Thai knows every politician is corrupt to varying degree's so its said, something that those Yellow shirts forget in their media campaign of propaganda.

[ivowatson]

For those unclear of Thailands past, when Thaksin was first elected as leader of the TRT, the people elected him with the view "we know he is corrupt but at least he will give us something". He delivered on giving them something.

The only thing he gave them was greed.

[siampolee]

ivowatson

l

The only thing he gave them was greed.

Along with long term debt and no idea of financial responsibility. debt bondage thrived under Thaksin The results are still crippling families even now.

[chadintheusa]

I think it inconceivable that were Thaksin to return to Thailand, that he would choose to enter politics again.

What a ridiculous statement. Thaksin never left politics.

Ridiculous indeed. Thaksin never left and he never will. He might have to take on a behind the scenes role because of the divisive he causes, but you can guarantee that it will amount to the same thing - him in charge surrounded by "yes" men.

He got his brother in law made PM. Of course he will remain involved in politics. Politics has been very good to him, it doubled his fortune. It is inconceivable that Thaksin would not be in politics if he was in Thailand unless he was in a prison cell. Even that might not stop him.

[rabo]

ivowatson

l

The only thing he gave them was greed.

Along with long term debt and no idea of financial responsibility. debt bondage thrived under Thaksin The results are still crippling families even now.

This is the same feedback that I get from my extensive Issan family. The family spans 3 generations and is now spilt between their home province and Bangkok, a very typical story. As I said in another post, the financial burdens created by Thaksin's love me for a buck polices ultimately comes back to those in Bangkok, and then to me as I am now the official head of family

Edited April 24, 2010 by rabo

[animatic]

hello i bought plane ticket online about 2 weeks ago i cant get a refund im flying may 28 to bkk im getting nervous now they can stop travelers from interring thailand do you think it will get better by then ..bill

Come to Thailand,

change your hotel booking from Bangkok to any place else in Thailand. No problems.

Simplest; if you really need to sleep soon after the flight, take a taxi to Pattaya.

Lots of rooms there now are free. Next day flights are available to Samui,

Phuket even Chaingmai easily.

Or just grab a flight from Suvarnabhumi straight away.

99% of Thailand is without issues.

But that really depends on your hotels placement.

A hotel near Central Wirled is a poor idea... for example.

I'd consider avoiding Kohn Kaen in issan and extended time touristing around in Bangkok

and maybe Surat Thani town on the mainland, for the moment.

Anyone with common sense can come here and have a quiet visit,

even with all this going on.

[Crushdepth]

Their is NO LAW & Order in Thailand

Thailand is mainly ruled by social convention and cultural tradition IMHO. Not by law.

[Pax50]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

You are absolutely right. Furthermore, what happends if the Red lose the next election? Would they respect the mandate?

[animatic]

ivowatson

l

The only thing he gave them was greed.

Along with long term debt and no idea of financial responsibility. debt bondage thrived under Thaksin The results are still crippling families even now.

Why would this surprise, he comes from a family that made it's money as Tax Farmers.

Making a profit enforcing what ever arbitrary taxes were levied and forcing collection.

Shylock as a family progenitor.

[rixalex]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

You are absolutely right. Furthermore, what happends if the Red lose the next election? Would they respect the mandate?

No they wouldn't, and neither would the yellows if they lost, so it simply takes us straight back to square one. Forcing the PM to step and down and go to the polls is an extremely short-term solution to a long term problem. Right now though, the reds don't care about that. They just want to get their snouts in the trough and have a shot at clearing the names of convicted criminals.

[KireB]

With regards to Thaksin if every Thai sits down and asks themselves "What did he do bad to me" then you will find 99.9% of the population can think of nothing he did bad for them personally.

You hit the nail on its provebial head here! Thais will indeed ask themselves what he did wrong to me or my family, rather than asking what he did wrong to the society at large! The fact that when a criminal steals money out of the state's coffers, this money effectively comes out the populace's pockets, seems to be too easily forgotten!

Thaksin was corrupt, was a thief, and is consequently a criminal. He was sentenced to prison for 2 years and more cases will follow once he comes back to Thailand.

And the fact that the red shirts worship a fugitive criminal tells you all!

[way2muchcoffee]

Even more frightening is the possibility of dissolution of the PTP or any other party if the elections are held under the present constitution, or if all candidates are not free to campaign in all areas of the country. These are very real issues that would quite possibly derail the legitimacy of elections in the near future.

On the table is a plan from the Democrats to amend the constitution in a rational way with real input from all parties, including the PTP, as well as civil society groups and academics. The PTP flatly reject this, instead preferring to use the elections results as a mandate for whatever party wins to amend the constitution in any way they deem appropriate without input from others. This is a recipe for disaster.

[slapout]

For those unclear of Thailands past, when Thaksin was first elected as leader of the TRT, the people elected him with the view "we know he is corrupt but at least he will give us something". He delivered on giving them something.

The only thing he gave them was greed.

As a former policeman, the picture of the police as 'the almighty', victim pointing at accused, accused and victim knowing cash settlement would be hit for commission by police, police may press charges or not, thus , they did relent and give them a dream. Its a new day and they have to wake up and accept reality sometime.

[melbpete]

<snip>

What you must remember is that since 2006 coup there has been an unprecedented campaign of hate and slur and accusation against the man kicked out in the coup. Many people following April 10th have now seen how biased and controlled the Thai media is, and they are asking questions now about everything else in the past, just how true that has all been.

With regards to Thaksin if every Thai sits down and asks themselves "What did he do bad to me" then you will find 99.9% of the population can think of nothing he did bad for them personally.

Control of the "populace mind" through manipulation of the media is the 21st century, it was also used quite well in the late 20th century.

To put it bluntly, there are some people who have put everything on making Thaksin out to be a criminal, put everything on dragging his name through the dirt and finishing him off.

For them its now 4 years down the line and yet all their work has not had the results they needed and in fact many aspects are now crumbling down revealing the naked truth of the system.

These people have everything to lose. For the Thai population if Thaksin comes back it will have no negative effect on 99.9% of the people.

However, for those who put everything into the coup, manufacturing "evidence" and disgracing him, his return would signal their demise.

Retribution and revenge against them would be swift no doubt.

Therefore you can see why a small amount of people remain so vehemently anti-Thaksin and retain control of the media, for if their near 5 year campaign of propaganda fails, they themselves know its the end of them and their families.

For those unclear of Thailands past, when Thaksin was first elected as leader of the TRT, the people elected him with the view "we know he is corrupt but at least he will give us something". He delivered on giving them something.

The people to this day have not forgotten that, they also knew he was corrupt so you are hardly going to succeed in turning them against him with corruption charges as every Thai knows every politician is corrupt to varying degree's so its said, something that those Yellow shirts forget in their media campaign of propaganda.

You seem to be the only poster on here that is blind to the criminal things that Thaksin did WHILE HE WAS PM.

Thaksin didn't individually hurt anyone. He hurt the WHOLE country.

You seem to ignore the laws that he changed for the benefit of his personal company while he was PM.

- increasing the loans to Burma so they could by product from HIS company.

- changing telecom concessions so HIS company would pay less to the government.

- changing the laws on foreign ownership so HE could sell HIS company to Singapore, and then not paying any tax on that sale.

He didn't help the poor in the LONG TERM. He gave cash handouts, easy credit which allowed the poor to get into more debt, and gave money to the RICH village heads for them to take their share before they did anything to help the poor. He worked on the short term to gain popular support. While he had that support, he removed all the checks and balances that are required in a democracy. The one area that he missed out on was the army.

Thaksin understands control of the minds of the people. That is why Red TV was set up. So they could tell his lies to the people.

It's unfortunate that their is no unbiased independent media in Thailand. But that was used by Thaksin when he was PM, and he is using it again with his Red TV.

It's not just a small percentage of Thais that don't like Thaksin. If he was to come back into power, or even if a red government was seen to be puppets of Thaksin (like the last 2), there would be hundreds of thousands of people on the streets again.

The reds are a minority in Thailand. A large minority, but a minority none the less. As a minority, they shouldn't automatically be in government.

The government represents the majority of Thailand. They should listen to minorities, but should govern for all of Thailand.