What Are My Rights?

[deejah]

i have been posting here and on some other TV threads

here is where i got the most educated, professional and useful feedback

thanks all for past and future help

i am working and still under contract until renewal time

they offered/ask me to teach in an entirely different program, different subjects, and classes

what rights do i have regarding this?

there is nothing in the contract regarding this

[tonititan]

Do you mean that they are telling you that you have to teach different subjects now? Or will it be different subjects if/when you renew your contract?

[deejah]

Do you mean that they are telling you that you have to teach different subjects now? Or will it be different subjects if/when you renew your contract?

it looks like both of the above are true and apply

yes and yes

[tonititan]

Hmm. Well, hopefully other posters who know more about contracts & legality issues will see your post. My guess is that if your contract doesn't specify what you will be teaching (only that you are hired as a teacher), then your company can assign you to teach anything they want. It sucks for you, but I think that maybe they have the right to do that. Is there ANYTHING in your contract that specifies which program you'll be teaching in?

[TiredTeacher]

Hmmm...

As for rights? That question makes me laugh!

Where are you going to go to get your rights? Court? Labour department services? Education department?

The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you want this job! You will waste your time and money trying the above and get 0! And any conflict with your employer will find you without a job and an angry boss trying to get you deported - you might even find your job is quietly canceled and after 24 hours immigration is notified to deport you!

If you want rights, try a different part of the world.

I would take it as a positive sign that your employer is offering you a change... they could just have told you "sorry no job for next academic year"! At least they are trying to fit you in.

[deejah]

it is quite possible they want to fire/lay me off but dont want to pay/offer severance

that might be why they have shifted duties

my understanding is that thai law and the dept of labor leans on the side of the employee and

those teachers that have fought/stood up for themselves won or did well

therefore the post

see what possibilities and options there are

maybe get some new ideas of how to best handle this

thanks

[culicine]

Rather than thinking about laws and the Labour Court, try to consider the pros and cons of the new position they are offering. Same salary and conditions, same work environment, class sizes etc. If you are new to the school, and you could manage to win in a a court, you have effectively burned your bridges with that school and any affiliated school. If you've been there only a year you would at most be entitled to only one month salary. If it's a private school you would have even less chance of winning a case. Buy by the sounds of it, if you actually job is not specified in your contract (i.e. whether its the ep, bilingual, thai program, etc), then you don;t have much of a leg to stand on. It happened to some teachers at my school - one changed programs, and the other decided they would leave. Those seem to be your options right now. So my advice would be to weigh up the pros and cons of both positions, and make a decision based on that.

[Sisaketmike]

Deleted quote edited out.

Please stop writing mean less sentences, if you don't know the labor laws here. Your post is so full of hate, the OP was asking a serious question and this is a forum to be able to get answers.

The labor laws are pretty cool, also for foreigners.

Here's some information you were asking for.

'Termination of Employment

Employment termination with cause (in which event the employer can terminate employment without notice and/or compensation) is governed by the provisions of Section 583 of the Civil and Commercial Code and Section 119 of the LPA, and includes gross negligence, willful disobedience, dishonesty or criminal act. When there is employment termination without cause, it is compulsory under employment laws that the employer make severance payment (in addition to notice) to the employee according to the length of unbroken service:

From 120 days but less than 1 year the amount is 30 days

1 year but less than 3 years the amount is 90 days

3 years but less than 6 years the amount is 180 days

6 years but less than 10 years the amount is 240 days

10 years and over the amount is 300 days'

P.S. Lots of schools and companies make like they wouldn't know that. You could also go to the dity hall, depending where you're working. They'll ask you if you want a lawyer, or if you want somebody from this labor office go to court with you.

Here's a link for you. Good luck.

http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com/Publicati...t/labor_law.htm

[Sisaketmike]

Do you mean that they are telling you that you have to teach different subjects now? Or will it be different subjects if/when you renew your contract?

Please could you give more details, like is it a company you're working for?

Did you sign a contract only teaching conversational English?

I've seen that so often. Teaching conversational English only, but the reality is different. Lots of schools do have some special programmes and you'll also have to teach Grammar, making speeches for students, giving and checking homework, and so on.

[Sisaketmike]

quote edited out/Scott

It seems that you're unlucky. We do have rights here, because we're paying taxes. The OP was asking a simple question, your answer to go back home to have rights is ridiculous.

[Sisaketmike]

Hmmm...

As for rights? That question makes me laugh!

Where are you going to go to get your rights? Court? Labour department services? Education department?

The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you want this job! You will waste your time and money trying the above and get 0! And any conflict with your employer will find you without a job and an angry boss trying to get you deported - you might even find your job is quietly canceled and after 24 hours immigration is notified to deport you!

If you want rights, try a different part of the world.

I would take it as a positive sign that your employer is offering you a change... they could just have told you "sorry no job for next academic year"! At least they are trying to fit you in.

Your post made me laugh. The OP has got rights and can go to see the labor department for further advice, I just don't get guys like you writing texts like your very unfriendly statement.

[aidenai]

if your contract doesn't specify what you will be teaching (only that you are hired as a teacher), then your company can assign you to teach anything they want.

That's the way it is.

Moreover, if your employment contract doesn't specify which department, i.e. English Program (20-35 students, air conditioning) or Regular Program (50 students, fan) then it's up to your employer where to assign you.

Edited May 3, 2010 by aidenai

[Tywais]

Where are you going to go to get your rights? Court? Labour department services?

Yes to the above choices.

[Scott]

One inflammatory post has been deleted and the quotes in other replies.

Teachers do have rights. In this case, however, I doubt there is much that you can do. If you have been switched to a subject that is out of your area of expertise and you are teaching upper grades, I would suggest that you write a letter to the administration and voice your concerns about it. Word it politely and request their assistance in getting you back to your old program and also let them know that if it's not possible, that you will do your very best for the school.

Where I work we sometimes need to assign teachers to subjects that they really don't like to teach. Usually it's a case of a few classes that need to be covered and we can't justify a new teacher for it. Most do it willingly. Of course, with things like biology, chemistry, physics and advanced math, that would be a real problem.

Best of luck to you.

[TiredTeacher]

Hmmm...

Your post made me laugh. The OP has got rights and can go to see the labor department for further advice, I just don't get guys like you writing texts like your very unfriendly statement.

Yes he does! But you and he/she needs to wake up! What is he/she at present going to go to the labour office for? A paranoia of loss of job/change? At this point they cannot do anything for him... and this is full stop! At most if his contract specifies his exact job description he may have a small case (assuming he is fired... because his next contract will have something different i.e. next/this month!).

Now back to my "unfriendly" statement... LOL! There was nothing unfriendly about it. Just reality; contracts for most teachers are for 1 year at a time i.e. maximum severance = 1 month average salary around 30,000 (before you jump up and down stating it is for the number of years of past work... you may want to see the reality of those that actually stick around for a case, costs etc and final judgments).

Now after all this anger, frustration, costs, time etc... this person gets 30,000 Baht (assuming lucky) and in the mean time will find it hard to get another job. Chances are an angry boss will ensure it is hard to get another job, no reference, dirty tactics etc etc!

So, back to original post. He has no rights unless he wants to fight it at probably a situation where he will need to do tourist visa runs for the next x+++ months, pay a lot of money, deal with many legal people that will also try to persuade him/her not to go the distance as they also do not see it as profitable etc!

But as those who say fight it are experts (yawn!) please feel free to tell the OP to do the exact opposite of my advice, and maybe you will tell us of your past wins in Thai law! LOL!

[TiredTeacher]

Where are you going to go to get your rights? Court? Labour department services?

Yes to the above choices.

Some may think I am hard with the OP, but honestly I have sympathy with him/her... I have had many times of frustration and have gone a certain legal distance with employers.

I will repeat myself... the above choices are not for the weak. Start only if you can be sure of a visa to stay the distance as well as funds and the mental strength.

Now back to my original post and the one before this. These posts sum up the xyz of this topic. Often solutions are in either changing jobs or friendly/civil negotiations with native employers. Other options are only worth it if the possible victory outweighs the journey. in my opinion in this case any (and I repeat any) settlement is not worth the journey.

Also may I remind all that labour law is not criminal law. The legal grounds under which you are considered a legal entity is different. If the OP starts a tribunal case under a tourist visa (due to lack of job, dirty tactics etc) he has very (if any) limited legal rights to actually pursue this avenue.

Edited May 3, 2010 by TiredTeacher

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, TT, labour law would cover 1 month severance (in appropriate conditions) for each of ALL the years worked up to about 12, as soon as the employee qualifies by tenure (in terms of number of years served in the contract position- NOT years on the contract papers). As previously stated many times, attempting to declare a contract 'temporary' to avoid giving benefits on termination doesn't work. I know many teachers who have received the proper amount of severance when their services were no longer required- some who have had to have a polite letter written from a lawyer- and it was definitely worth it.

But we are hijacking this thread, which is NOT about severance. If you care to keep posting on this topic, I recommend the thread on it within the first page or two of topics. You should be aware that I do not tolerate the use of this subforum to spread mis-information discouraging teachers from seeking their rights.

OP,

your school is possibly:

a. attempting to make you quit to get rid of the expense of having you, or to avoid paying severance, or for some other petty reason that might be impossible to imagine;

b. simply extremely stupid in that they are asking a teacher to teach outside his field when the teacher himself has declared he is not comfortable with it and has never indicated he could or would be suitable for such teaching even in hiring;

c. desperate because they can't find anyone any closer than you to the kind of teacher they need;

d. all of the above

But I do agree with Tired Teacher's last post citing the futility of fighting it (the school's reassignment of you) per se. You can do it badly until they decide it's a bad idea and give you back your old job, or you can seek other work, or you can wait until they fire you and collect severance. But if you quit on your own, you get nothing.

[TiredTeacher]

But we are hijacking this thread, which is NOT about severance. If you care to keep posting on this topic, I recommend the thread on it within the first page or two of topics. You should be aware that I do not tolerate the use of this subforum to spread mis-information discouraging teachers from seeking their rights.

But I do agree with Tired Teacher's last post citing the futility of fighting it (the school's reassignment of you) per se. You can do it badly until they decide it's a bad idea and give you back your old job, or you can seek other work, or you can wait until they fire you and collect severance. But if you quit on your own, you get nothing.

Never have given mis-information nor have I discouraged any teacher from seeking their rights. I personally believe there are rights as an employee - just very hard to get if one is up against a snake like employer (or your words "futile"). In this case one does not know the type of employer, but it is always good to advise worst case scenarios - just in case a person gets motivated and decides to become cowboy to get rights and later crashes and burns!

One point where I do disagree with you is: "You can do it badly until they decide it's a bad idea". Worst case, teacher gets fired for not doing a good job and gets a bad reputation. Also students suffer for a term or so!

Edited May 4, 2010 by Ijustwannateach
Off-topic and inflammatory material removed - IJWT

[Ijustwannateach]

If the teacher is fired, he will get severance and most likely the school will bear the bad reputation.

Otherwise, if the school decides to make a bad decision against educated advice, the teacher is not responsible and shouldn't hurt him/herself for their sake. Ideally he/she could quit immediately but people aren't always in a position to do so, and in that case the school bears the full responsibility- teachers can't possibly be expected to bear the financial, personal, or other brunt for all the potential stupid things that administrations can do.

Off-topic inflammatory material has been removed from your post.

In any case, without more detailed information it is difficult to give further non-speculative advice to the OP.