Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[retarius]

retarius

People in my town loved Thaksin...he put an electricity supply in the outer sois...and made a huge positive difference to the lives of about 3000 voters...are you suggesting that he should have left them in the dark?

Can we actually get one point straight Retarius ?

According to the way your post reads Thaksin (aka Superman) it would seem installed all those wonderful improvements himself.

Let's clarify the matter for our less erudite readers shall we. (Read brain (?) washed Red Shirt apologists)

Wrong.

The TAXPAYERS, (not that Thaksin would understand the word TAXPAYER) paid for the installation of said electricity supply and the rank and file members of Thai society laboured to finish the job not Thaksin.

My dear old mum in law in Surin says ''Thaksin gave us 100 baht of our tax money but he took back 500 baht of our tax money for himself an interesting piece of truthful understanding of Thaksins real motives.

The total control of Thailand to accomplish the rampant looting he started out on and the imposition of a draconian regime.

That is why brothers 1-4 of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership are not willing to step down as they want to continue to wallow in the pork barrel. as promised to them by their Dear Leader.

Sorry slampootee,

Rightly or wrongly, Thaksin got the credit for putting in the electricity, although he did come to the switching on ceremony for the photo-op...it's on my mother-in-law's wall...yes, you are right, it wasn't his money...but he spent the taxpayers money to benefit some poor folk instead of cosseting the rich elite in Bangkok...many of the other elite leaders could have done something to provide electricity...but they didn't, they were focussed exclusively on Bangkok...and on making sure that the elite didn't have to part with any money in taxes to pay for electricity supply for their buffalo kinsmen of Isaan...

I'm guessing you are the hardy farang type that gets off on living without electricity...well, bully for you...in democracies, the governments are supposed to implement policies to benefit the whole of the nation, not just the Bangkok elite...our evil Mr Thaksin was the first politico smart enough to realize that if you looked outside Bangkok the people were actually voters, not buffalo to be scorned, and he did a lot for them like halving the poverty rate in Thailand in five years (World Bank figures, not mine look it up on the internet)...if you are asking me did Thasin do some bad things...undoubtably so...but even Hilter was kind to animals....

Debate closed

[timekeeper]

Wrong. Because Abhisit has yet to confirm the date of the House dissolution. It's in the news of both TV and BP.

And also the poor red shirts haven't been paid.

they were paid to go to Bangkok, we saw that on the youtube video

they haven't yet been paid to go back and won't be paid until Abhisit says when the house will be dissolved

that's the deal....otherwise slippery Thaksin won't pay

[humfurry]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

Snoopy who?

[Siripon]

retarius

People in my town loved Thaksin...he put an electricity supply in the outer sois...and made a huge positive difference to the lives of about 3000 voters...are you suggesting that he should have left them in the dark?

Can we actually get one point straight Retarius ?

According to the way your post reads Thaksin (aka Superman) it would seem installed all those wonderful improvements himself.

Let's clarify the matter for our less erudite readers shall we. (Read brain (?) washed Red Shirt apologists)

Wrong.

The TAXPAYERS, (not that Thaksin would understand the word TAXPAYER) paid for the installation of said electricity supply and the rank and file members of Thai society laboured to finish the job not Thaksin.

My dear old mum in law in Surin says ''Thaksin gave us 100 baht of our tax money but he took back 500 baht of our tax money for himself an interesting piece of truthful understanding of Thaksins real motives.

The total control of Thailand to accomplish the rampant looting he started out on and the imposition of a draconian regime.

That is why brothers 1-4 of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership are not willing to step down as they want to continue to wallow in the pork barrel. as promised to them by their Dear Leader.

Sorry slampootee,

Rightly or wrongly, Thaksin got the credit for putting in the electricity, although he did come to the switching on ceremony for the photo-op...it's on my mother-in-law's wall...yes, you are right, it wasn't his money...but he spent the taxpayers money to benefit some poor folk instead of cosseting the rich elite in Bangkok...many of the other elite leaders could have done something to provide electricity...but they didn't, they were focussed exclusively on Bangkok...and on making sure that the elite didn't have to part with any money in taxes to pay for electricity supply for their buffalo kinsmen of Isaan...

I'm guessing you are the hardy farang type that gets off on living without electricity...well, bully for you...in democracies, the governments are supposed to implement policies to benefit the whole of the nation, not just the Bangkok elite...our evil Mr Thaksin was the first politico smart enough to realize that if you looked outside Bangkok the people were actually voters, not buffalo to be scorned, and he did a lot for them like halving the poverty rate in Thailand in five years (World Bank figures, not mine look it up on the internet)...if you are asking me did Thasin do some bad things...undoubtably so...but even Hilter was kind to animals....

Debate closed

Oh Thaksin did scorn the voters, democracy was not his goal as he said, TRT MPs were simply employees to follow the great leader's orders without consultation.

Every constituency MP knows he must look after his constituents- ask Banharn, Suwit, Chuan Leek Pai, Thaksin was not the first, but he was the first to have enough money to buy up NAP, Chart Pattana, and a few other small parties and then offer a list of policies to the voters. And his experience and skill with the mass media left his opponents standing.

He didn't try to benefit the whole nation, in faxt the opposite, he said if voters chose another party they would have to wait for their budget. A totally unsuitable person to be PM.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Siripon

[jcbangkok]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

All I see when he posts is:

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: deadsnoopy.

· View this post

· Un-ignore deadsnoopy

Regretfully he still comes up when people respond and quote his posts. So, really wish people would stop taking the bait.

[timekeeper]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

All I see when he posts is:

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: deadsnoopy.

· View this post

· Un-ignore deadsnoopy

Regretfully he still comes up when people respond and quote his posts. So, really wish people would stop taking the bait.

i love to bait him, make him look silly and make him work for his 30 pieces of silver

i expect one day i will be on his ignore list.......

[gemini81]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

i have explained that before, he is figure of fun, an easy target and i am making him work for his money

His idea of "working for money" is people collecting bribe money to take up space in central BKK.

[Gippy]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

Agreed. It's an endless loop.

try using TV's ignore user feature, works great!

While the ignore feature is good, it doesn't help when people keep quoting him. How about a new feature to ignore posts that quote people I have ignored? Of course that would make this an empty thread

[warfie]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

All I see when he posts is:

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: deadsnoopy.

· View this post

· Un-ignore deadsnoopy

Regretfully he still comes up when people respond and quote his posts. So, really wish people would stop taking the bait.

i love to bait him, make him look silly and make him work for his 30 pieces of silver

i expect one day i will be on his ignore list.......

Agreed... it's fun to goad him into making himself look more and more stupid!

Edited May 5, 2010 by warfie

[bangkokrick]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

All I see when he posts is:

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: deadsnoopy.

· View this post

· Un-ignore deadsnoopy

Regretfully he still comes up when people respond and quote his posts. So, really wish people would stop taking the bait.

Done no more Snoops.

Cheers, Rick

[timekeeper]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

Agreed. It's an endless loop.

try using TV's ignore user feature, works great!

While the ignore feature is good, it doesn't help when people keep quoting him. How about a new feature to ignore posts that quote people I have ignored? Of course that would make this an empty thread

i can solve that for you, as i am probably the only one that's responding and requoting his quotes then put me on ignore too

that way you do not have to see his inane, trollish red propaganda statements and my witty, amusing rebuttles...

[timekeeper]

MCOT: 05/05/2010 Bangkok: Democrat Party spokesman Buranat: PM expected to dissolve House during Sept 14-30

ThaivisaNews:05/05/2010 Red-Shirts have not received govt's clear stance over House dissolution; Weng expects answer in 1-2 days before deciding to end protest

some communication problems here?

like i have said many times, the deal is that they only get paid by Thaksin, if Abhisit says it himself and like i said from day one, its nothing to do with principles, democracy or any romantic higher calling

its only ever been about the money ..........

[toenail]

...I bet the government will provide the Reds free buses back to their provinces (meals included); financial aid to those who missed out on their employment back home; and will be stuck cleaning up the mess they left in the city (besides getting early elections)

[jdinasia]

Oh really? Before the red shirt protests, Abhisit said he would finish his term until the end of 2011 and then call for new elections. What we have now is a potential House dissolution in September 2010 and an election by November 2011, more than 1 year less than Abhisit's full term. You call that "aren't getting anything"?

What an ignorant way to live your life

yes yes yes yes Snoopy has it right - don't be so silly - they have ^WON the election this year - the posters on here (of the canary variety) said weeks ago it would never happen - you lost - get used to it

Huh? I haven't lost anything.

I am not unhappy to see early elections but that is NOT what the reds were demanding. They were demanding IMMEDIATE elections and then the Abhisit leave the country

DS has been in my ignore list for ages --- but Abhisit has said from day one that dissolving the house would be considered. To suggest otherwise just isn't true at all.

Welll...ok... I grant you there was an unreasonable demand for 'immediate' - that was never going to happen - but Abhisit and many posters were saying (I can't be bothered to re-read and look up the posts) that he should stay full term (you said that I believe?) full term is another 2 years - so it's not unreasonable to suggest that the reds have indeed 'won' that HUGE concession? not everything, but that part.

LOL .. Spin?

The reds demanded IMMEDIATE dissolution .. later they demanded IMMEDIATE dissolution AND that Abhisit eave Thailand IMEDIATELY. Did they get anything they said they wanted? No.

From the beginning of this protest Abhisit has said that he would consider dissolution of the house as a political compromise, but that IMMEDIATE dissolution was not possible. He said that we would not dissolve the house under threat.

His roadmap says what? Act right. Go home (or protest in a legal way even). IF you do that then I will dissolve the house AFTER I have accomplished those things I said needed to be done from the beginning.

Look back to the first days of this rally and you will see Abhisit saying that he would consider dissolving the house.

You will find people from here saying that he isn't required to; that he shouldn't; maybe even some that have said he wouldn't ... I don't think you will find where I have said anything other than he shouldn't dissolve the house while under threat.

I still think that the red leadership will serve time in jail. They have incited violence, they have incited insurrection, they have incited riots, there are red leadership directly involved in terrorism. The DSI and CRES obviously have enough information to continue.

So you think that because the Reds got NOTHING in their demands and that Abhisit did what he said he was willing to do from the beginning ... that the Reds won? To quote you "What an ignorant way to lead your life"

[timekeeper]

...I bet the government will provide the Reds free buses back to their provinces (meals included); financial aid to those who missed out on their employment back home; and will be stuck cleaning up the mess they left in the city (besides getting early elections)

not sure about the first two but the BMA has sent the first of a number of clean up bills to Phua Thai already

i expect if they get paid the check will come from Dubai drawn against a recently closed account here

or better still if they do not pay, the BMA could sue Phua Thai for bankruptcy and bankrupt persons cannot run for office.........

[retarius]

retarius

People in my town loved Thaksin...he put an electricity supply in the outer sois...and made a huge positive difference to the lives of about 3000 voters...are you suggesting that he should have left them in the dark?

Can we actually get one point straight Retarius ?

According to the way your post reads Thaksin (aka Superman) it would seem installed all those wonderful improvements himself.

Let's clarify the matter for our less erudite readers shall we. (Read brain (?) washed Red Shirt apologists)

Wrong.

The TAXPAYERS, (not that Thaksin would understand the word TAXPAYER) paid for the installation of said electricity supply and the rank and file members of Thai society laboured to finish the job not Thaksin.

My dear old mum in law in Surin says ''Thaksin gave us 100 baht of our tax money but he took back 500 baht of our tax money for himself an interesting piece of truthful understanding of Thaksins real motives.

The total control of Thailand to accomplish the rampant looting he started out on and the imposition of a draconian regime.

That is why brothers 1-4 of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership are not willing to step down as they want to continue to wallow in the pork barrel. as promised to them by their Dear Leader.

Sorry slampootee,

Rightly or wrongly, Thaksin got the credit for putting in the electricity, although he did come to the switching on ceremony for the photo-op...it's on my mother-in-law's wall...yes, you are right, it wasn't his money...but he spent the taxpayers money to benefit some poor folk instead of cosseting the rich elite in Bangkok...many of the other elite leaders could have done something to provide electricity...but they didn't, they were focussed exclusively on Bangkok...and on making sure that the elite didn't have to part with any money in taxes to pay for electricity supply for their buffalo kinsmen of Isaan...

I'm guessing you are the hardy farang type that gets off on living without electricity...well, bully for you...in democracies, the governments are supposed to implement policies to benefit the whole of the nation, not just the Bangkok elite...our evil Mr Thaksin was the first politico smart enough to realize that if you looked outside Bangkok the people were actually voters, not buffalo to be scorned, and he did a lot for them like halving the poverty rate in Thailand in five years (World Bank figures, not mine look it up on the internet)...if you are asking me did Thasin do some bad things...undoubtably so...but even Hilter was kind to animals....

Debate closed

Oh Thaksin did scorn the voters, democracy was not his goal as he said, TRT MPs were simply employees to follow the great leader's orders without consultation.

Every constituency MP knows he must look after his constituents- ask Banharn, Suwit, Chuan Leek Pai, Thaksin was not the first, but he was the first to have enough money to buy up NAP, Chart Pattana, and a few other small parties and then offer a list of policies to the voters. And his experience and skill with the mass media left his opponents standing.

He didn't try to benefit the whole nation, in faxt the opposite, he said if voters chose another party they would have to wait for their budget. A totally unsuitable person to be PM.

Siripon, sweeheart, you are all over the place....

Was Thaksin perfect in every way? no of course not! Should he be canonized by the Pope? Well I'm sure soem people much worse than him have been, but I think not...

It's not about whether Thaksin was good or not...this is what the numbskull yellows simply don't understand...Thaksin was the first Prime Minister in Thailand to ever do anything about poverty in the North and North East. Small practical things like providing electricity for poor farmers is a small example...lots of people did very nicely with the microcredit...some squandered it but my mother-in-law as an example bought thousands of ducklings and now lives quite nicely off the profits...she even installed an a/c unit in the bedroom for me when I stay there, so she could use the new electricity that (she believes Thaksin) put in the soi...she doesn't care that he was corrupt, she things all the politicians feather their own nests, she just wanted someone to improve her life and Thaksin heard her plea and answered...

Now there is a monstrosity of a half built 1500 unit low income housing not too far from where I live...the idea to provide rent-to-buy low income housing is, I think, a good idea, gets the homeless out of those corrugated iron shacks...but within 3 years it would have been a ghetto...so personally I thought it was a crappy project...but at least I give Thaksin credit for trying to help poor people a budget priority....the current govenment simply withdrew funding and replaced it with...yes you guessed it...nothing at all....I could never accuse any of the Thai governments before or since of trying to help poor people...

I was living in America when Bill Clinton was caught with Monica Lewinski...and the neo-con right wing Bush lovin' types just couldn't understand how he had done this "terrible" (albeit perfectly legal) thing, and that only they were outraged...Clinton retained his popularity right up until the end, and is still widely admired...why did they miss the public's mood so badly?...it's because they analyzed things from a different point of view than from the general public, blinded by hatred for a President that they saw as decadent and borderline socialist.

Left wing and right wing types analyze things very differently...there was a study published on this very thing recently..it's on the internet...conservative and right wing people tend to be much more deferential to authority and to elites (they are the sort that used to doff their caps to gentlemen in England and to stand aside to let the rich walk past without them having to soil their shoes on the muddy streets), when conservatives make a moral judgement the ask themselves is it within the law...left wingers tend to have much lower regard (or in my case, hostility) toward authorities and elites...and on moral issues ask themselves who does it benefit, and is anybody harmed? The questions asked in the moral interpretation lead to totally different interpretations of the same data set....you presumably can't understand why I am defending a corrupt, criminal..you think I don't know that he is corrupt and I'm an apologist for him...and that if you shout loud and long enough I'll come to realize that hew as corrupt, and that you are right...it isn't the case, I don;'t care that he was corrupt and lined hos own pockets as long as he did more good than harm to the poor folk of Thailand... and on the other hand, I can't see why you hate so much and condemn totally someone who did so much for the poor of Thailand...

[Jingthing]

The reds got something, earlier elections. They could have gotten that without any violence, so all the blood is on their hands, It is disgusting they got even that, but it is the right thing to try to avoid (or delay) civil war. It remains to be seen whether this will really be enough for the reds, already signs they are dragging their feet.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

Quotes are not difficult...

agreed

[321niti123]

Not sure why you guys keep sparing with Snoopy. Can't you see that is what he wants...

Agreed. It's an endless loop.

I went back on-topic several posts ago. You guys keep coming up with the paid-to-protest lies. So let's stop and go back on-topic please.

Actually snoopy, i dont want to go off topic again but the reds were being paid to protest, my neighbor went and got like 500 in just an hour, how do you explain that.

Ohh another story (I believe i told you this before)

This one was my cousin , doesnt know thai, doesnt watch news, clueless about whats going on (and this was a the beginning of the protest), he came out of the house wearing red even though he didnt support them and saw them at the pak soi (during one of those saturday red campaigns around bangkok) a red hands him a flag and walks away (he was obviously confused) a few seconds later (hes still there, not sure what to do with the flag), a guy comes up to him gives him 2K and walks away. He finally over came his confusion put down the flag went back home and changed his shirt to come back out again-he obviously took the money.

Edited May 5, 2010 by 321niti123

[jdinasia]

The reds got something, earlier elections. They could have gotten that without any violence, so all the blood is on their hands, It is disgusting they got even that, but it is the right thing to try to avoid (or delay) civil war. It remains to be seen whether this will really be enough for the reds, already signs they are dragging their feet.

PTP could have gotten the early elections all on their own. Continuous no-confidence votes and pushing harder as a legitimate opposition party. Possibly even earlier than they are happening.

[lannarebirth]

The reds got something, earlier elections. They could have gotten that without any violence, so all the blood is on their hands, It is disgusting they got even that, but it is the right thing to try to avoid (or delay) civil war. It remains to be seen whether this will really be enough for the reds, already signs they are dragging their feet.

PTP could have gotten the early elections all on their own. Continuous no-confidence votes and pushing harder as a legitimate opposition party. Possibly even earlier than they are happening.

Yep, that's what makes this far worse than anything the PAD ever did and comparable to staging a coup. Only the stupidest of individuals would not acknowledge that Thaksin=PTP=UDD=Red Shirts=Black Shirts. Their "political wing" could not achieve their aims in democratic fashion so they create an illegal violent extortionate occupation. Red Democracy I see Dr Weng has put on his other cap today and is calling for all red Shirts to stick together and vote for PTP. So it was all a big murderous campaign rally?

[jdinasia]

The reds got something, earlier elections. They could have gotten that without any violence, so all the blood is on their hands, It is disgusting they got even that, but it is the right thing to try to avoid (or delay) civil war. It remains to be seen whether this will really be enough for the reds, already signs they are dragging their feet.

PTP could have gotten the early elections all on their own. Continuous no-confidence votes and pushing harder as a legitimate opposition party. Possibly even earlier than they are happening.

Yep, that's what makes this far worse than anything the PAD ever did and comparable to staging a coup. Only the stupidest of individuals would not acknowledge that Thaksin=PTP=UDD=Red Shirts=Black Shirts. Their "political wing" could not achieve their aims in democratic fashion so they create an illegal violent extortionate occupation. Red Democracy I see Dr Weng has put on his other cap today and is calling for all red Shirts to stick together and vote for PTP. So it was all a big murderous campaign rally?

Fairly accurate --- Thaksin may not have had enough control of PTP to get them to be an effective opposition. He did have enough control over Weng and Veera and Arisaman and Jatuporn --- (not to mention Sae Daeng and Isaan Rambo) -- Those guys appear to have been willing to take a needle for Thaksin.

[Thai at Heart]

Siripon, sweeheart, you are all over the place....

Was Thaksin perfect in every way? no of course not! Should he be canonized by the Pope? Well I'm sure soem people much worse than him have been, but I think not...

It's not about whether Thaksin was good or not...this is what the numbskull yellows simply don't understand...Thaksin was the first Prime Minister in Thailand to ever do anything about poverty in the North and North East. Small practical things like providing electricity for poor farmers is a small example...lots of people did very nicely with the microcredit...some squandered it but my mother-in-law as an example bought thousands of ducklings and now lives quite nicely off the profits...she even installed an a/c unit in the bedroom for me when I stay there, so she could use the new electricity that (she believes Thaksin) put in the soi...she doesn't care that he was corrupt, she things all the politicians feather their own nests, she just wanted someone to improve her life and Thaksin heard her plea and answered...

Now there is a monstrosity of a half built 1500 unit low income housing not too far from where I live...the idea to provide rent-to-buy low income housing is, I think, a good idea, gets the homeless out of those corrugated iron shacks...but within 3 years it would have been a ghetto...so personally I thought it was a crappy project...but at least I give Thaksin credit for trying to help poor people a budget priority....the current govenment simply withdrew funding and replaced it with...yes you guessed it...nothing at all....I could never accuse any of the Thai governments before or since of trying to help poor people...

I was living in America when Bill Clinton was caught with Monica Lewinski...and the neo-con right wing Bush lovin' types just couldn't understand how he had done this "terrible" (albeit perfectly legal) thing, and that only they were outraged...Clinton retained his popularity right up until the end, and is still widely admired...why did they miss the public's mood so badly?...it's because they analyzed things from a different point of view than from the general public, blinded by hatred for a President that they saw as decadent and borderline socialist.

Left wing and right wing types analyze things very differently...there was a study published on this very thing recently..it's on the internet...conservative and right wing people tend to be much more deferential to authority and to elites (they are the sort that used to doff their caps to gentlemen in England and to stand aside to let the rich walk past without them having to soil their shoes on the muddy streets), when conservatives make a moral judgement the ask themselves is it within the law...left wingers tend to have much lower regard (or in my case, hostility) toward authorities and elites...and on moral issues ask themselves who does it benefit, and is anybody harmed? The questions asked in the moral interpretation lead to totally different interpretations of the same data set....you presumably can't understand why I am defending a corrupt, criminal..you think I don't know that he is corrupt and I'm an apologist for him...and that if you shout loud and long enough I'll come to realize that hew as corrupt, and that you are right...it isn't the case, I don;'t care that he was corrupt and lined hos own pockets as long as he did more good than harm to the poor folk of Thailand... and on the other hand, I can't see why you hate so much and condemn totally someone who did so much for the poor of Thailand...

And I hope someone puts this in Abhisit's documents to ponder over for tonight as he tries to create a majority hopefully in November.

I have never ever been called left wing in my life and yet somehow, the ideas resonate so clearly.

And yes, I have seen some of the Ua Athorn places some are becoming ghettos, but also some are not.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[pornsasi]

Siripon, sweeheart, you are all over the place....

Was Thaksin perfect in every way? no of course not! Should he be canonized by the Pope? Well I'm sure soem people much worse than him have been, but I think not...

It's not about whether Thaksin was good or not...this is what the numbskull yellows simply don't understand...Thaksin was the first Prime Minister in Thailand to ever do anything about poverty in the North and North East. Small practical things like providing electricity for poor farmers is a small example...lots of people did very nicely with the microcredit...some squandered it but my mother-in-law as an example bought thousands of ducklings and now lives quite nicely off the profits...she even installed an a/c unit in the bedroom for me when I stay there, so she could use the new electricity that (she believes Thaksin) put in the soi...she doesn't care that he was corrupt, she things all the politicians feather their own nests, she just wanted someone to improve her life and Thaksin heard her plea and answered...

Now there is a monstrosity of a half built 1500 unit low income housing not too far from where I live...the idea to provide rent-to-buy low income housing is, I think, a good idea, gets the homeless out of those corrugated iron shacks...but within 3 years it would have been a ghetto...so personally I thought it was a crappy project...but at least I give Thaksin credit for trying to help poor people a budget priority....the current govenment simply withdrew funding and replaced it with...yes you guessed it...nothing at all....I could never accuse any of the Thai governments before or since of trying to help poor people...

I was living in America when Bill Clinton was caught with Monica Lewinski...and the neo-con right wing Bush lovin' types just couldn't understand how he had done this "terrible" (albeit perfectly legal) thing, and that only they were outraged...Clinton retained his popularity right up until the end, and is still widely admired...why did they miss the public's mood so badly?...it's because they analyzed things from a different point of view than from the general public, blinded by hatred for a President that they saw as decadent and borderline socialist.

Left wing and right wing types analyze things very differently...there was a study published on this very thing recently..it's on the internet...conservative and right wing people tend to be much more deferential to authority and to elites (they are the sort that used to doff their caps to gentlemen in England and to stand aside to let the rich walk past without them having to soil their shoes on the muddy streets), when conservatives make a moral judgement the ask themselves is it within the law...left wingers tend to have much lower regard (or in my case, hostility) toward authorities and elites...and on moral issues ask themselves who does it benefit, and is anybody harmed? The questions asked in the moral interpretation lead to totally different interpretations of the same data set....you presumably can't understand why I am defending a corrupt, criminal..you think I don't know that he is corrupt and I'm an apologist for him...and that if you shout loud and long enough I'll come to realize that hew as corrupt, and that you are right...it isn't the case, I don;'t care that he was corrupt and lined hos own pockets as long as he did more good than harm to the poor folk of Thailand... and on the other hand, I can't see why you hate so much and condemn totally someone who did so much for the poor of Thailand...

I happen to mostly agree with you . Thaksin as PM has done a lot for the poor Isaan people in Northern and Central Thailand , unlike all his predecessors . I dont know much the South , so i cant judge there . One can not reasonably explain how Thaksin would had become so popular if he had not done so much for Isaan . The report of the World Bank on his action in reducing poverty in Thailand are elogious to say the least . I , speaking for myself , admire him a lot for that , and my wife from Central Thailand even more so , she is 100% pro Thaksin .

But like you , and unlike her , i see that Thaksin's character is flawed , especially because of his human right record , not even talking about corruption . For that reason in my view Thaksin can't be again the PM of Thailand , though he would surely be a genial economic adviser or an enormously competent minister for rural development . I really cant get my peace with someone whose action resulted in the deaths of so many innocents thais including young children . And for what ? To gain more popularity of which he had so much already .

Everybody has his limits , you know yours i guess , i know mine , but he seemingly did not know his . He was a megalomane .

[jdinasia]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

[Robby nz]

Posted this somewhere else but it seem pertinent here also.

Hang on a bit people, the PM has said IF the reds accept the road map then elections will be held on Nov 14.

Is that not saying that first the reds must accept the proposal before a definite date for elections can be set?

As far as we know the road map has not been accepted instead there have been demands (always demands) for a dissolution date before they will accept.

Two opposing points right? so where to from here?

Another point: If I heard correctly the Dr in his English language speech said they would not try to negotiate amnesty on any charges of overthrowing the monarchy.

Does that mean they will try to negotiate amnesty on other charges?

[gl9999]

Siripon, sweeheart, you are all over the place....

Was Thaksin perfect in every way? no of course not! Should he be canonized by the Pope? Well I'm sure soem people much worse than him have been, but I think not...

It's not about whether Thaksin was good or not...this is what the numbskull yellows simply don't understand...Thaksin was the first Prime Minister in Thailand to ever do anything about poverty in the North and North East. Small practical things like providing electricity for poor farmers is a small example...lots of people did very nicely with the microcredit...some squandered it but my mother-in-law as an example bought thousands of ducklings and now lives quite nicely off the profits...she even installed an a/c unit in the bedroom for me when I stay there, so she could use the new electricity that (she believes Thaksin) put in the soi...she doesn't care that he was corrupt, she things all the politicians feather their own nests, she just wanted someone to improve her life and Thaksin heard her plea and answered...

Now there is a monstrosity of a half built 1500 unit low income housing not too far from where I live...the idea to provide rent-to-buy low income housing is, I think, a good idea, gets the homeless out of those corrugated iron shacks...but within 3 years it would have been a ghetto...so personally I thought it was a crappy project...but at least I give Thaksin credit for trying to help poor people a budget priority....the current govenment simply withdrew funding and replaced it with...yes you guessed it...nothing at all....I could never accuse any of the Thai governments before or since of trying to help poor people...

I was living in America when Bill Clinton was caught with Monica Lewinski...and the neo-con right wing Bush lovin' types just couldn't understand how he had done this "terrible" (albeit perfectly legal) thing, and that only they were outraged...Clinton retained his popularity right up until the end, and is still widely admired...why did they miss the public's mood so badly?...it's because they analyzed things from a different point of view than from the general public, blinded by hatred for a President that they saw as decadent and borderline socialist.

Left wing and right wing types analyze things very differently...there was a study published on this very thing recently..it's on the internet...conservative and right wing people tend to be much more deferential to authority and to elites (they are the sort that used to doff their caps to gentlemen in England and to stand aside to let the rich walk past without them having to soil their shoes on the muddy streets), when conservatives make a moral judgement the ask themselves is it within the law...left wingers tend to have much lower regard (or in my case, hostility) toward authorities and elites...and on moral issues ask themselves who does it benefit, and is anybody harmed? The questions asked in the moral interpretation lead to totally different interpretations of the same data set....you presumably can't understand why I am defending a corrupt, criminal..you think I don't know that he is corrupt and I'm an apologist for him...and that if you shout loud and long enough I'll come to realize that hew as corrupt, and that you are right...it isn't the case, I don;'t care that he was corrupt and lined hos own pockets as long as he did more good than harm to the poor folk of Thailand... and on the other hand, I can't see why you hate so much and condemn totally someone who did so much for the poor of Thailand...

That's the problem with the 'poor' people in the North. They're willing to worship an EXTREMELY corrupt person who had a couple of thousand of his own citizens murdered. He did some good for the poor while fuc_king up the rest of the country and lining his already rich pockets. Give these people a few hundred baht for some booze and an electric lamp and to hel_l with everything else as long as they can see their lao in the dark.

And your Clinton comparison is idiotic. One lied about getting a blowjob while the other stole billions and had 2000+ of his own citizens murdered.

[Thai at Heart]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

Shouting it here makes no difference. Abhisit needs a loud hailer in Isaan and Chiangmai.

The mafia out there won't let him have his voice because this country wants something more than he can ever give. It isn't nice, and it isn't right and it isn't fair, but the Dems have had their time here and they after 80 years have been found out. They don't really care about poor people.

[jdinasia]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

Shouting it here makes no difference. Abhisit needs a loud hailer in Isaan and Chiangmai.

The mafia out there won't let him have his voice because this country wants something more than he can ever give. It isn't nice, and it isn't right and it isn't fair, but the Dems have had their time here and they after 80 years have been found out. They don't really care about poor people.

Huh ... you lost me. Are you saying that the Mafia cares about poor people? Or are you saying that the reds are controlled by the mafia?

[pornsasi]

Pornsasi ---

Thaksin was popular (that is fading). Your conclusion as to why are questionable though.

He bought his popularity in three ways ...

1) Populist polocies --- not altogether a bad thing

2) Gaining the loyalty (however) of people that controlled the local political machines. Newin amongst others have since abandoned him

3) creating a client/patron system with loans --- make loans available, make them due in 3 years, if he gets back in then they get extended. (that system is being taken down by Abhisit's programs.

jdinasia . Why cant you admit that the reports on Thaksin economic achievements in respected bodies like the World Bank are extremely positive .

Why cant you visit North and central Thailand and ask yourself the people there what they think of Thaksin .

Who should i believe , you or the World bank ? you or the Isaan people ?

You lack objectivity due to your obvious political leaning .

By the way i am not against Abhisit

Edit Typo

Edited May 5, 2010 by pornsasi