Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[Ulysses G.]

You mean the red shirt leaders? Sure, they will go to jail. But they'll be out in 6 hours, just like the yellow shirt leaders were. The yellow shirts occupied government house for 8 months and 2 international airports for 10 days, much much worse than the red shirts who entered government house for 30 minutes and occupied a street in the city for 1 month.

I'm not crazy about any of them, but at least the redshirts did it during low season.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[landofthefree]

There won't be any trials or covictions a closed doors deal has already been done to guarantee the Reds and Yellows imunity from prosecution why do you think the Reds are happy to wait until November? I have yet to see any political analyst who thinks that Abhisit stands a snowball's chance of winning the next election as they say that his associations with the Ammart that brought him to power will also be his undoing at the next election. People around the country won't vote for the minority Ammart.

I agree that there are many more points to the agreement that the public won't ever see or hear about. This is a "face-saving" show for everyone now. Abhisit proposes an agreement, red shirts counter it with some points of their own, Abhisit sets a date with the EC for the next election and sets a date to dissolve the house. Done. Both sides have "won" ..and more importantly, both sides have "saved face".

And the red leaders go to jail where criminals belong.

I guarantee that they won't go to jail. A deal has been done. The Yellow criminals didn't go to jail and they also won't. Forget the face saving charges it won't ever result in prosecution. I know its not justice but I don't expect justice in a country like Thailand do you?

[Eclipse]

Once he's confirmed the date with the Election Commission and has set a date for dissolving parliament, then the red shirts will surely go home.

Apart from the criminal leaders who will go straight to jail where they belong.

You mean the red shirt leaders? Sure, they will go to jail. But they'll be out in 6 hours, just like the yellow shirt leaders were. The yellow shirts occupied government house for 8 months and 2 international airports for 10 days, much much worse than the red shirts who entered government house for 30 minutes and occupied a street in the city for 1 month.

Abhisit has surely already made a "behind doors" amnesty deal for the red shirt leaders, believe me. If they're arrested and held for longer than the yellow shirts, there will be red shirts all around the prison within minutes taking them out, I'm sure. But I doubt it will get that far.

Sorry. I meant go to jail for a very long time.

No one can disagree with that.

Apart from the regular troll posters such as deadsnoopy.

[Herm]

Abhisit deserves credit for independently fashioning a satisfactory compromise in a statesman-like fashion and avoiding further bloodshed.

The Red Shirts have successfully pushed their issues to the forefront of the political agenda, rallied impressive numbers of Thais to their cause, and galvanized their supporters ahead of parliamentary elections in six months. There they'll have the opportunity via the ballot box to start down the path of transforming the political landscape.

Apparently you have not quite grasped the situation NOTHING HAS CHANGED the reds responded by agreeing BUT than quickly proceeded to make demands that can not be agreed with by the government - if they do not succeed the leaders will go to jail and Thaksin will have wasted a lot of money - Abhisit made a brilliant move and now, a crackdown will be accepted by all .. well except the reds of course and I hope is it going to happen tonight - its the only way to stop that criminal, violent mob

shame on you

You are probablyin this country on a visa and here you are advocating

violence by this government against its own people !

This is not a tv reality show

To start, not against its own people but against a subversive element of the population that is holding the capital hostage, has killed civilians, uses weapons of war and has an destructive agenda against Thailand in short a group of violent Terrorists - I would say the same in any other country

Second, if someone has lived here for 26 years, has a Thai family and sees his and his families livelihood being destroyed this person has every right to voice his / her opinion just like the hundreds of thousands of Thai's who live in Europe and the US have the same fuc_king right

shame on you

[timekeeper]

Once he's confirmed the date with the Election Commission and has set a date for dissolving parliament, then the red shirts will surely go home.

Apart from the criminal leaders who will go straight to jail where they belong.

they said that they would turn themselves in on the 15th May anyway

all but Arisaman who promised to turn himself in on April 1st

quite an appropriate date for a fool like him.........

[deadsnoopy]

i beg to differ to your analysts valued opinion but my wife and some of her family think Abhisit's position has been strengthened by his stand

my housekeeper who was a staunch Thaksin supporter until he became Cambodian is now almost applauding every word Abhisit says

so i think he can count on at least 20 votes from that group

i am sure there will be many similar stories nationally........

20 votes in favor of Abhisit will surely win him the election Oh wait, by the time the next election comes he might already be banned from politics for 5 years.

[deadsnoopy]

Once he's confirmed the date with the Election Commission and has set a date for dissolving parliament, then the red shirts will surely go home.

Apart from the criminal leaders who will go straight to jail where they belong.

You mean the red shirt leaders? Sure, they will go to jail. But they'll be out in 6 hours, just like the yellow shirt leaders were. The yellow shirts occupied government house for 8 months and 2 international airports for 10 days, much much worse than the red shirts who entered government house for 30 minutes and occupied a street in the city for 1 month.

Abhisit has surely already made a "behind doors" amnesty deal for the red shirt leaders, believe me. If they're arrested and held for longer than the yellow shirts, there will be red shirts all around the prison within minutes taking them out, I'm sure. But I doubt it will get that far.

Sorry. I meant go to jail for a very long time.

No one can disagree with that.

Apart from the regular troll posters such as deadsnoopy.

I will quote you on that as soon as ThaiVisa opens a news thread stating that the red shirt leaders have been released on bail after a few hours of detention. Remind me if I forget

[jcbangkok]

It is amazing some people here and within the red group are so delusional that they actually think there is some sort of agreement that has transpired or will between the reds and the government. WAKE UP, the red mob is done and have no say so in this road map except to either accept it or not and then face the consequences that Thailand will have no sympathy in seeing happen and that will also increase Abhisit's popularity.

This road map has to do with all the people of Thailand and not the red mob. This is basically the same offer the PM gave right of the bat during the negotiations the red mob walked away from and then went on to cause untold injuries and numerous deaths and destruction in Thailand as well as putting a big dent into the economy and putting 60k+ people out of work.

If anybody is truly a red sympathizer they should be screaming for new leadership. The three stooges they had sitting down with the PM, before things got completely out of hand with their mob, could have walked away as winner but instead now they have lost face all over the world and GUARANTEED you will see a mass exodus of red supporters from the land they have seized.

As the PM stated weeks ago ... be patient, he has a plan to seprate the hardcore violent group from the followers in the lawless violent mob who has been hel_l bent on tearing Thailand apart and forcing authorities to crack down so they can cry "we are victims" to the world. But now, the have lost all credibility and the world sees them for what they are ... thugs and terrorists.

[Eclipse]

[quote name='deadsnoopy' date='2010-05-04 20:04:49'

20 votes in favor of Abhisit will surely win him the election Oh wait, by the time the next election comes he might already be banned from politics for 5 years.

You can hope this will be the case, but you will be disappointed.

[Tigs]

Monkfish

Thanks for posting that link. If everyone can spare 7 minutes to watch it (it is in English) then you will see why the red leaders are literally 'playing to the crowd'. The hardcore have zero intention of letting this go peacefully. Abhisit must stand firm now and give them a formal date and as for the rest of it he should tell them to ram it!

Some of these red leaders have really got some neck. With any luck some of those necks will be stretched in the not to distant future.

[Herm]

It is amazing some people here and within the red group are so delusional that they actually think there is some sort of agreement that has transpired or will between the reds and the government. WAKE UP, the red mob is done and have no say so in this road map except to either accept it or not and then face the consequences that Thailand will have no sympathy in seeing happen and that will also increase Abhisit's popularity.

This road map has to do with all the people of Thailand and not the red mob. This is basically the same offer the PM gave right of the bat during the negotiations the red mob walked away from and then went on to cause untold injuries and numerous deaths and destruction in Thailand as well as putting a big dent into the economy and putting 60k+ people out of work.

If anybody is truly a red sympathizer they should be screaming for new leadership. The three stooges they had sitting down with the PM, before things got completely out of hand with their mob, could have walked away as winner but instead now they have lost face all over the world and GUARANTEED you will see a mass exodus of red supporters from the land they have seized.

As the PM stated weeks ago ... be patient, he has a plan to seprate the hardcore violent group from the followers in the lawless violent mob who has been hel_l bent on tearing Thailand apart and forcing authorities to crack down so they can cry "we are victims" to the world. But now, the have lost all credibility and the world sees them for what they are ... thugs and terrorists.

well put

[Jerrytheyoung]

Sounds acceptable. Abhisit has so far proposed November 14 elections, but he has not set a date to dissolve parliament and he has not confirmed the November 14 date with the Election Commission. So far it's just a proposal. He needs to go that further step and confirm that he's sincere about holding elections, confirm the date with the Election Commission and then I'm sure the red shirts will gladly go home.

It's understandable that the Red Shirts would need some further assurances or clarifications. At this point at least, it sounds like both parties want to end the standoff and are acting in good faith.

agree

[deadsnoopy]

20 votes in favor of Abhisit will surely win him the election Oh wait, by the time the next election comes he might already be banned from politics for 5 years.

You can hope this will be the case, but you will be disappointed.

You're right, I will be disappointed if Abhisit wins the election and has only received 20 votes.

[timekeeper]

i beg to differ to your analysts valued opinion but my wife and some of her family think Abhisit's position has been strengthened by his stand

my housekeeper who was a staunch Thaksin supporter until he became Cambodian is now almost applauding every word Abhisit says

so i think he can count on at least 20 votes from that group

i am sure there will be many similar stories nationally........

20 votes in favor of Abhisit will surely win him the election Oh wait, by the time the next election comes he might already be banned from politics for 5 years.

20 votes he did not have before and that Thaksin did have

thats quite a swing away from T and to A and if that happened nationally........

are you really still banging that dissolution drum?

its a dog that won't hunt

Abhisit will be next PM and may even go to full term on this one

by the time he has dissolved Phua Thai on terrorist charges and bulldozed everyone else out of the way with criminal charges there won't be a credible opposition for them to compete against

it will be a one horse race

[Herm]

Sounds acceptable. Abhisit has so far proposed November 14 elections, but he has not set a date to dissolve parliament and he has not confirmed the November 14 date with the Election Commission. So far it's just a proposal. He needs to go that further step and confirm that he's sincere about holding elections, confirm the date with the Election Commission and then I'm sure the red shirts will gladly go home.

It's understandable that the Red Shirts would need some further assurances or clarifications. At this point at least, it sounds like both parties want to end the standoff and are acting in good faith.

agree

mind boggling

[deadsnoopy]

Monkfish

Thanks for posting that link. If everyone can spare 7 minutes to watch it (it is in English) then you will see why the red leaders are literally 'playing to the crowd'. The hardcore have zero intention of letting this go peacefully. Abhisit must stand firm now and give them a formal date and as for the rest of it he should tell them to ram it!

Some of these red leaders have really got some neck. With any luck some of those necks will be stretched in the not to distant future.

I did watch it. It clearly states that it's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

Edited May 4, 2010 by deadsnoopy

[lannarebirth]

It is amazing some people here and within the red group are so delusional that they actually think there is some sort of agreement that has transpired or will between the reds and the government. WAKE UP, the red mob is done and have no say so in this road map except to either accept it or not and then face the consequences that Thailand will have no sympathy in seeing happen and that will also increase Abhisit's popularity.

This road map has to do with all the people of Thailand and not the red mob. This is basically the same offer the PM gave right of the bat during the negotiations the red mob walked away from and then went on to cause untold injuries and numerous deaths and destruction in Thailand as well as putting a big dent into the economy and putting 60k+ people out of work.

If anybody is truly a red sympathizer they should be screaming for new leadership. The three stooges they had sitting down with the PM, before things got completely out of hand with their mob, could have walked away as winner but instead now they have lost face all over the world and GUARANTEED you will see a mass exodus of red supporters from the land they have seized.

As the PM stated weeks ago ... be patient, he has a plan to seprate the hardcore violent group from the followers in the lawless violent mob who has been hel_l bent on tearing Thailand apart and forcing authorities to crack down so they can cry "we are victims" to the world. But now, the have lost all credibility and the world sees them for what they are ... thugs and terrorists.

well put

It could be a master stroke, because of course "the roadmap" is all the stuff Abhisit intended on dealing with as PM anyway. If he gets wide media coverage of all the aspects of his plan he can point to those who impede (either red or yellow) that are stalling his work on the nation's behalf. Get the people on your side, the reasonable ones anyway, with that side being "the middle". He's not gonna make to many powerful friends but that doesn't seem to worry him much. Hope he has a good protection team...

Edited May 4, 2010 by lannarebirth

[BigC]

ok fair enough but once this election goes through. then everyone has to accept the out come like it or not. Got to stop blaming the otherside for this and that cause the altnative is constant civil war.

if the other party win the election then the yellow just have to accept it. same as the reds should the reds lose

[deadsnoopy]

Abhisit will be next PM and may even go to full term on this one

by the time he has dissolved Phua Thai on terrorist charges and bulldozed everyone else out of the way with criminal charges there won't be a credible opposition for them to compete against

it will be a one horse race

A one-horse race with ...no horse and no rider, you mean? If you haven't noticed, the Democrats are on trial for taking 250+ million Baht in illegal donations, and Abhisit was chairman when these donations were received. The Democrats will end up being dissolved, both lower courts have already agreed and have forwarded it to the Constitution Court for confirmation. I seriously doubt that he will ever hold a political office again for at least the next 5 years.

He knows it. Everyone knows it. The 6 months timeframe for new elections is a fair agreement that will give Abhisit and his cronies enough time in office to put aside some more cash and then bow out with their heads held somewhat high.

[Humungus]

What if the red shirt leaders decide it's all over and the phrai or pawns or whatever you call them keep on protesting till they get all their wages paid? It's nice to see that the red leaders are still playing games, we have a date for the election and now they want a date for dissolution. Once they get that it'll be something else won't it. You can't negotiate with liars and terrorists, they have no honor and will keep changing their minds. Bring in some buses, and some riot police, give them an easy choice, leave or we make you. Search for weapons, arrest the leaders.

[FatherF]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

[deadsnoopy]

ok fair enough but once this election goes through. then everyone has to accept the out come like it or not. Got to stop blaming the otherside for this and that cause the altnative is constant civil war.

if the other party win the election then the yellow just have to accept it. same as the reds should the reds lose

I'm with you on that one, but remember the army reshuffle will happen before the new election and that gives them a pro-yellow advantage, so in case Puea Thai or another pro-Thaksin party wins a majority, the army will be right there to make another coup. The election will be a fresh start, but I doubt that the political circus will be over.

[ozzieman05]

the problem the reds have now is getting all the heavy munitions out of the area without the authorities catching them doing it

if they catch them trying to move all the munitions buried in Lumpini park then thats another nail in the 'we were peaceful protestors'' coffin and adds to the terrorist charges that they are so keen to defend in court.

if they leave them then the authorities will find them anyway

so they have a rock and a hard place problem

they can hardly claim 'not us' when they are concealed behind enemy lines ...........

This whole agreement could fall apart if Abhisit isn't granting a general amnesty and permitting the protesters to peacefully disperse en mass. The protesters shouldn't be subject to pat downs or harassment. Just let them leave the retail district peacefully.

If the police and/or military want to uncover the identities of the hooded militia, they can resume their investigation after the retail district is clear of protesters.

Abhisit needs to decisively seize the initiative to end this standoff now. Peacefully clearing the retail district of thousands of protesters is a far greater priority than hunting down a relative handful of militia.

In other words let them smuggle all the firepower out of Bangkok

They will need it for there next protest if the democrats some how win the next election

[deadsnoopy]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

[landofthefree]

Monkfish

Thanks for posting that link. If everyone can spare 7 minutes to watch it (it is in English) then you will see why the red leaders are literally 'playing to the crowd'. The hardcore have zero intention of letting this go peacefully. Abhisit must stand firm now and give them a formal date and as for the rest of it he should tell them to ram it!

Some of these red leaders have really got some neck. With any luck some of those necks will be stretched in the not to distant future.

Monkfish, thanks also for the link. I thought his response was interesting especially the part where he is so confident that Abhisits Govenments LM charges are fully defenceable that he does not wan't amnesty from the charges. Interesting too that Journalists without frontiers have reported that Abhisit has abused this law for personal political gain.

[jcbangkok]

Sounds acceptable. Abhisit has so far proposed November 14 elections, but he has not set a date to dissolve parliament and he has not confirmed the November 14 date with the Election Commission. So far it's just a proposal. He needs to go that further step and confirm that he's sincere about holding elections, confirm the date with the Election Commission and then I'm sure the red shirts will gladly go home.

It's understandable that the Red Shirts would need some further assurances or clarifications. At this point at least, it sounds like both parties want to end the standoff and are acting in good faith.

agree

Excuse my ignorance (seriously) but why does there need to be a dissolution of parliament if all the seats become open to vote on Nov. 14th ... that is Nov. 14th if the reds don't continue to derail any forward progress in Thailand through further violence, lawlessness and terrorism.

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Herm]

Abhisit will be next PM and may even go to full term on this one

by the time he has dissolved Phua Thai on terrorist charges and bulldozed everyone else out of the way with criminal charges there won't be a credible opposition for them to compete against

it will be a one horse race

A one-horse race with ...no horse and no rider, you mean? If you haven't noticed, the Democrats are on trial for taking 250+ million Baht in illegal donations, and Abhisit was chairman when these donations were received. The Democrats will end up being dissolved, both lower courts have already agreed and have forwarded it to the Constitution Court for confirmation. I seriously doubt that he will ever hold a political office again for at least the next 5 years.

He knows it. Everyone knows it. The 6 months timeframe for new elections is a fair agreement that will give Abhisit and his cronies enough time in office to put aside some more cash and then bow out with their heads held somewhat high.

Before making such firm statements shouldn't one wait until the matter is before the court ?

Abhisit is the only one who can run this country and transform it to the better - all others are extreme in one way or the other and only interested in filling their pockets

[deadsnoopy]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

Edited May 4, 2010 by deadsnoopy

[misterjag]

the problem the reds have now is getting all the heavy munitions out of the area without the authorities catching them doing it

if they catch them trying to move all the munitions buried in Lumpini park then thats another nail in the 'we were peaceful protestors'' coffin and adds to the terrorist charges that they are so keen to defend in court.

if they leave them then the authorities will find them anyway

so they have a rock and a hard place problem

they can hardly claim 'not us' when they are concealed behind enemy lines ...........

This whole agreement could fall apart if Abhisit isn't granting a general amnesty and permitting the protesters to peacefully disperse en mass. The protesters shouldn't be subject to pat downs or harassment. Just let them leave the retail district peacefully.

If the police and/or military want to uncover the identities of the hooded militia, they can resume their investigation after the retail district is clear of protesters.

Abhisit needs to decisively seize the initiative to end this standoff now. Peacefully clearing the retail district of thousands of protesters is a far greater priority than hunting down a relative handful of militia.

In other words let them smuggle all the firepower out of Bangkok

They will need it for there next protest if the democrats some how win the next election

The only way the Democrats could win the next election is if they passed a poll tax beforehand.

[lannarebirth]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

You're clearly not feelin' the love. The election date about the least important issue. Get on the bus!