Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[jcbangkok]

Monkfish

Thanks for posting that link. If everyone can spare 7 minutes to watch it (it is in English) then you will see why the red leaders are literally 'playing to the crowd'. The hardcore have zero intention of letting this go peacefully. Abhisit must stand firm now and give them a formal date and as for the rest of it he should tell them to ram it!

Some of these red leaders have really got some neck. With any luck some of those necks will be stretched in the not to distant future.

Monkfish, thanks also for the link. I thought his response was interesting especially the part where he is so confident that Abhisits Govenments LM charges are fully defenceable that he does not wan't amnesty from the charges. Interesting too that Journalists without frontiers have reported that Abhisit has abused this law for personal political gain.

Of course "they" don't want amnesty because a) they know they will NEVER get it and they have to try to unconvince their followers and the world it isn't about them and they are not continuing absolute idiotic and unrealistic demands such as pulling back authorities while they continue to illegally occupy an important part of BKK illegally and have proved every time they are free to roam they cause lawlessness and injury to people or property while holding BKK residents hostage. They are liars plain and simple who are bent on violence ... all one has to do is listen to them to know this. Does anybody really believe they will be turning themselves in on the 15th? They are absolute liars and because of this, they think everyone else is a liar too.

[timekeeper]

Abhisit will be next PM and may even go to full term on this one

by the time he has dissolved Phua Thai on terrorist charges and bulldozed everyone else out of the way with criminal charges there won't be a credible opposition for them to compete against

it will be a one horse race

A one-horse race with ...no horse and no rider, you mean? If you haven't noticed, the Democrats are on trial for taking 250+ million Baht in illegal donations, and Abhisit was chairman when these donations were received. The Democrats will end up being dissolved, both lower courts have already agreed and have forwarded it to the Constitution Court for confirmation. I seriously doubt that he will ever hold a political office again for at least the next 5 years.

He knows it. Everyone knows it. The 6 months timeframe for new elections is a fair agreement that will give Abhisit and his cronies enough time in office to put aside some more cash and then bow out with their heads held somewhat high.

as i have disputed this point with you all day, i had obviously noticed your delusional meanderings and guess what?

its not gonna happen

there wasn't even a constitution in place when the donation was made

so which constitutional law was broken for the constitutional court to consider?

Edited May 4, 2010 by timekeeper

[jcbangkok]

It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date.

Sorry, he just did and only those hel_l bent on their own agenda and not that of Thailand will oppose this.

Abhisit has proven he can bring rational people together.

EDIT: LMAO, I guess you think it is in the reds power to set an election date.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[ozzieman05]

my wife and some of her family think Abhisit's position has been strengthened by his stand

my housekeeper who was a staunch Thaksin supporter until he became Cambodian is now almost applauding every word Abhisit says

so i think he can count on at least 20 votes from that group

i am sure there will be many similar stories nationally........

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When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

Now she wishes some one would shoot him. for all the trouble he has caused Thailand

Wife has been to University so her family think she knows best

Thai wife returns to the village and talks to many old friends

now we have at least 60% of the village who are scared of the red shirts as they threten everyone, but listen to my Thai wife's stories

Times are a changing in the north

The last 2 weeks of red shirt activities have turned many many Issan villages against the Red Leaders

The biggest problem thugs have is education

The best education is Thai girls being with Farang

They get to see the real truth, and spread the word by mouth

The red leader can stop the truth on the tv , but can not stop the Issan Grapevine

Any one who has a Thai wife or girlfriend knows how efficiant the grape vine is

[timekeeper]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

so as the reds have conceded and agreed to it in principle on behalf of hundreds of thousands of red supporters then they must understand it

or are they wrong too?

[ozzieman05]

Monkfish

Thanks for posting that link. If everyone can spare 7 minutes to watch it (it is in English) then you will see why the red leaders are literally 'playing to the crowd'. The hardcore have zero intention of letting this go peacefully. Abhisit must stand firm now and give them a formal date and as for the rest of it he should tell them to ram it!

Some of these red leaders have really got some neck. With any luck some of those necks will be stretched in the not to distant future.

I did watch it. It clearly states that it's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

This all sounds great

But you are dreaming

its all about the Red leader getting away with there crimes

After all Thaskin promised them they will not be held responsible

[TheOldWolf]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

So what you say is that PM and his advisors are not familiar with the constitution? EC stated before they need 14 days to set up an election. Now they have more then six month. Why should EC go against the wish of the PM? And maybe we have a new constitution at the time for the election, which make what you say not valid at all.

[jdinasia]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

I think it reads minimum of 30 days and a Max of 60?

[midas]

Abhisit deserves credit for independently fashioning a satisfactory compromise in a statesman-like fashion and avoiding further bloodshed.

The Red Shirts have successfully pushed their issues to the forefront of the political agenda, rallied impressive numbers of Thais to their cause, and galvanized their supporters ahead of parliamentary elections in six months. There they'll have the opportunity via the ballot box to start down the path of transforming the political landscape.

Apparently you have not quite grasped the situation NOTHING HAS CHANGED the reds responded by agreeing BUT than quickly proceeded to make demands that can not be agreed with by the government - if they do not succeed the leaders will go to jail and Thaksin will have wasted a lot of money - Abhisit made a brilliant move and now, a crackdown will be accepted by all .. well except the reds of course and I hope is it going to happen tonight - its the only way to stop that criminal, violent mob

shame on you

You are probablyin this country on a visa and here you are advocating

violence by this government against its own people !

This is not a tv reality show

To start, not against its own people but against a subversive element of the population that is holding the capital hostage, has killed civilians, uses weapons of war and has an destructive agenda against Thailand in short a group of violent Terrorists - I would say the same in any other country

Second, if someone has lived here for 26 years, has a Thai family and sees his and his families livelihood being destroyed this person has every right to voice his / her opinion just like the hundreds of thousands of Thai's who live in Europe and the US have the same fuc_king right

shame on you

You know perfectly well there are women and children and even Momks there also who would suffer.

And even if Thai's who live in Europe " have the same fuc_king right " to call for a violent end as you obviously want to see

- somehow I think they would keep quiet.

[FatherF]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

So, are you trying to say that the constitution does not set a time frame from the time that parliament is dissolved until new elections are to be held? if, as I suspect this is the case then it would be quite easy to count the days back from Nov 14. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

FF

[timekeeper]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

the reds have accepted that he can do it without following your procedure and have conceded

they represent ''millions of reds''

why is it such a problem for you?

[FatherF]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

I think it reads minimum of 30 days and a Max of 60?

Thank you JD, a sensible reply.

FF

[ozzieman05]

What if the red shirt leaders decide it's all over and the phrai or pawns or whatever you call them keep on protesting till they get all their wages paid? It's nice to see that the red leaders are still playing games, we have a date for the election and now they want a date for dissolution. Once they get that it'll be something else won't it. You can't negotiate with liars and terrorists, they have no honor and will keep changing their minds. Bring in some buses, and some riot police, give them an easy choice, leave or we make you. Search for weapons, arrest the leaders.

I keep hearing that all will be done the accepted was of the west

so now its time to act

The above is the accepted way in the west

Look at all the May day protest all around the world

The police moved in and all is over

[jcbangkok]

I cannot think of a more idiotic and trivial thing than whining about the EC needs to agree to the 14th. The EC is going to go along with what is in the best interest of the country and the EC is not going to have A SINGLE issue with this date given the wide support.

Lets also remember the person spouting this nonsense is the same guy who swore up and down yesterday the democrats committed voter fraud instead of simply being accused of illegal contribution issues that certainly does not mean, even if held to be true, there will be a disbanding of the party.

He is also stating now the democrats are on trial for this now. Did I miss something or does he not understand what a trial is?

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[ozzieman05]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

It's not silly. Because only once the date for the House dissolution has been set, the election date can be set. It's not in Abhisit's power to set an election date. Abhisit has to set a date to dissolve parliament (which he still hasn't done) and then the Election Commission (EC) will set the date for the new elections.

So either Abhisit doesn't understand the process -or- he's the one that's trying to play the crowd.

Again, Abhisit needs to confirm with the Election Commission the date he will dissolve parliament, then the Election Commission will set the date for the new election, and that's it. Before that, it's just a proposal. I understand however that this process may be a bit difficult to understand for some people here.

Have you ever heard of the half full. half empty glass story

Your only looking at it the way that suits you, other look at it the opposite way

but which ever way you look at it the answer is still the same

The glass is both half full, and half empty

[lannarebirth]

I cannot think of a more idiotic and trivial thing than whining about the EC needs to agree to the 14th. The EC is going to go along with what is in the best interest of the country and the EC is not going to have A SINGLE issue with this date given the wide support.

Lets also remember the person spouting this nonsense is the same guy who swore up and down yesterday the democrats committed voter fraud instead of simply being accused of illegal contribution issues that certainly does not mean, even if held to be true, there will be a disbanding of the party.

He is also stating now the democrats are on trial for this now. Did I miss something or does he not understand what a trial is?

Not only are they not yet on trial, but the OAG prosecutors has not yet decided if they have enough evidence to support a prosecution of the case for forwarding to the Constitutional Court. It's a long road.

[landofthefree]

my wife and some of her family think Abhisit's position has been strengthened by his stand

my housekeeper who was a staunch Thaksin supporter until he became Cambodian is now almost applauding every word Abhisit says

so i think he can count on at least 20 votes from that group

i am sure there will be many similar stories nationally........

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

Now she wishes some one would shoot him. for all the trouble he has caused Thailand

Wife has been to University so her family think she knows best

Thai wife returns to the village and talks to many old friends

now we have at least 60% of the village who are scared of the red shirts as they threten everyone, but listen to my Thai wife's stories

Times are a changing in the north

The last 2 weeks of red shirt activities have turned many many Issan villages against the Red Leaders

The biggest problem thugs have is education

The best education is Thai girls being with Farang

They get to see the real truth, and spread the word by mouth

The red leader can stop the truth on the tv , but can not stop the Issan Grapevine

Any one who has a Thai wife or girlfriend knows how efficiant the grape vine is

Couldnt agree with you more, she is a red shirt supporter based on the fact that she feels that Thaksin's Government helped her and her community. I as a farrang feel that it is easier to associate myself with the reds cause rather than the Ammart, Elite Yellow shirts that I often end up having to work with and also having to listen to their extreme right wing views on a just society! I do not agree with everything that Thaksin has done or everything that the red shirts have done . Our message on the grapevine is anti Ammart and anti Abhisit and thats what we are efficiently spreading, but the people we are spreading it too havent changed their convictions, they are still red and will be so at election time.

Edited May 4, 2010 by landofthefree

[deadsnoopy]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

the reds have accepted that he can do it without following your procedure and have conceded

they represent ''millions of reds''

why is it such a problem for you?

No, they haven't. Watch the video announcement again. It's in English. They clearly said that they want the Election Commission to set the date, then they will go home:

Edited May 4, 2010 by deadsnoopy

[ozzieman05]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

How many times do we have to repeat the obvious

House will be disolved at the requirement of parlimentary law

Can we please let this question be buried, and get on with solving the problem and not throwing more wood on the fire

[bubblegum]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

Could somebody tell me how to IGNORE deadsnoopy ? I'm tired of HIS misonderstanding of the whole situation!

[ozzieman05]

the problem the reds have now is getting all the heavy munitions out of the area without the authorities catching them doing it

if they catch them trying to move all the munitions buried in Lumpini park then thats another nail in the 'we were peaceful protestors'' coffin and adds to the terrorist charges that they are so keen to defend in court.

if they leave them then the authorities will find them anyway

so they have a rock and a hard place problem

they can hardly claim 'not us' when they are concealed behind enemy lines ...........

This whole agreement could fall apart if Abhisit isn't granting a general amnesty and permitting the protesters to peacefully disperse en mass. The protesters shouldn't be subject to pat downs or harassment. Just let them leave the retail district peacefully.

If the police and/or military want to uncover the identities of the hooded militia, they can resume their investigation after the retail district is clear of protesters.

Abhisit needs to decisively seize the initiative to end this standoff now. Peacefully clearing the retail district of thousands of protesters is a far greater priority than hunting down a relative handful of militia.

In other words let them smuggle all the firepower out of Bangkok

They will need it for there next protest if the democrats some how win the next election

The only way the Democrats could win the next election is if they passed a poll tax beforehand.

You are welcome to your opinion

But the Thai wife and all her friends think you have no idea

Her vote counts yours does not

[gl9999]

Come on guys. In Thailand, it's all about face saving. Snoopy's team lost and now he needs the last word so he can save face. Let's just give in to his silly 'THE EC sets the date' argument.

[deadsnoopy]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

How many times do we have to repeat the obvious

House will be disolved at the requirement of parlimentary law

Can we please let this question be buried, and get on with solving the problem and not throwing more wood on the fire

You don't have to keep repeating anything. When the date has been set for the dissolution of the House, then the EC will confirm the date for the election, and the red shirts can go home. Unless the "issue" isn't the red shirts going home, but something else?

[metisdead]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

Could somebody tell me how to IGNORE deadsnoopy ? I'm tired of HIS misonderstanding of the whole situation!

[321niti123]

Abhisit deserves credit for independently fashioning a satisfactory compromise in a statesman-like fashion and avoiding further bloodshed.

The Red Shirts have successfully pushed their issues to the forefront of the political agenda, rallied impressive numbers of Thais to their cause, and galvanized their supporters ahead of parliamentary elections in six months. There they'll have the opportunity via the ballot box to start down the path of transforming the political landscape.

Apparently you have not quite grasped the situation NOTHING HAS CHANGED the reds responded by agreeing BUT than quickly proceeded to make demands that can not be agreed with by the government - if they do not succeed the leaders will go to jail and Thaksin will have wasted a lot of money - Abhisit made a brilliant move and now, a crackdown will be accepted by all .. well except the reds of course and I hope is it going to happen tonight - its the only way to stop that criminal, violent mob

shame on you

You are probablyin this country on a visa and here you are advocating

violence by this government against its own people !

This is not a tv reality show

I have lived in thailand my whole life and i also support the violence. The last straw was the Chulalongkorn Hospital incident, what if some guy had a heart problem and he had a heart attack, what if some old man went into shock, what if a surgery was being performed and the reds shocked the doctors causing an accident, what if some guy needs immediate treatment, and wat about all those other patients who had enough to worry with their health but have to worry about some lunatic, sadistic, maniac storming the hospital and their health declines.

If the reds agree to this proposition they should go home, if they are going to terrorize the innocent thai people, then the person that should die for their crimes are the red leaders and barbaric reds not the sick and innocent who have nothing to do with this conflict.

[timekeeper]

I cannot think of a more idiotic and trivial thing than whining about the EC needs to agree to the 14th. The EC is going to go along with what is in the best interest of the country and the EC is not going to have A SINGLE issue with this date given the wide support.

Lets also remember the person spouting this nonsense is the same guy who swore up and down yesterday the democrats committed voter fraud instead of simply being accused of illegal contribution issues that certainly does not mean, even if held to be true, there will be a disbanding of the party.

He is also stating now the democrats are on trial for this now. Did I miss something or does he not understand what a trial is?

we all know what he is and why he is here

so lets make him work hard for it

just keep posting and make him answer to get his daily bread

as to EC commission rulings on elections

they mattered little to Thaksin when on February 24th 2006 he dissolved parliament and was required to have an election within two months

he had still not organised an election up until he was removed as self appointed caretaker PM on September 19th 2006 in a coup.

so much for the power of the EC commission over the PM

how can anyone take them seriously when they caved in minutes to an overweight wedding/karaoke singer ?

Edited May 4, 2010 by timekeeper

[jcbangkok]

I cannot think of a more idiotic and trivial thing than whining about the EC needs to agree to the 14th. The EC is going to go along with what is in the best interest of the country and the EC is not going to have A SINGLE issue with this date given the wide support.

Lets also remember the person spouting this nonsense is the same guy who swore up and down yesterday the democrats committed voter fraud instead of simply being accused of illegal contribution issues that certainly does not mean, even if held to be true, there will be a disbanding of the party.

He is also stating now the democrats are on trial for this now. Did I miss something or does he not understand what a trial is?

Not only are they not yet on trial, but the OAG prosecutors has not yet decided if they have enough evidence to support a prosecution of the case for forwarding to the Constitutional Court. It's a long road.

So, his comment about two lower courts already deciding on this is also false and it is still just at the stage of a recommendation from the EC who were threatened by the reds regarding this issue??? Am starting to wonder if TV should look to adding disclaimers to certain poster's posts. But looks like my fault for assuming some of what somebody says who is constantly saying untruths could actually be true.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Perfectly reasonable - get the date - pack up and go home... now up to Abhisit to not dawdle

[deadsnoopy]

I have lived in thailand my whole life and i also support the violence.

You support violence?

[patjem]

Even the demand for House dissolution date is silly. They can just open the Constitution and count the days back from Nov 14.

FF

Spot on.

Possible phone call that could have taken place in the last few days:-

Abhisit: Hi, Abhisit here, guess you guys have been poised for some news from my government, regarding the likely pull-ahead of house dissolution. Well, the thing is guys, got a few things to fix first, but we should be all set once we have the budget & Army fixed, I'm thinking of XXXX date, but we'll add a couple of weeks in case the buses are running late, so if I were to propose this date, we understand that 14th. November is looking good for an election date?

EC: Mr. Abhisit, glad you read up on the constitution as it currently stands. Notwithstanding any further alterations that may be imposed via a referendum, you're right, 14th. November would work out right, all in line constitutionally. By the way, have you any further updates on a referendum yet?

Abhistis. Thanks. Gotta run, I'll keep you posted of any delays in the planned dissolution, but first I've got some housecleaning needs arranging.