Whats The Difference Between ราดข้าว And กับข้าว?

[farangnahrak]

Whats the difference between ราดข้าว and กับข้าว?

Judging by the words, I'd assume ราดข้าว means the food is poured over rice, and กับข้าว means I get rice on the side.

But thats definitely not what happens at the restaurants . . . can someone clarify this for me?

The prices for each option are different.

[naboo]

ราดข้าว is definitely "over rice" as you said. Not sure about กับข้าว though, would assume the same presentation

Edited May 6, 2010 by naboo

[GarryP]

If it is the former, it means served over rice while the latter is a separate dish. Often when buying stuff from food shops I will say something like "moo sap bai kaprao - ow pen kab na". The "ow pen kap na" is added to indicate it is not to be prepared over rice but as a side order. Sorry for not writing in Thai but you should get the gist.

[uppalux]

This is a real problem here.

ราดข้าว just like you assume. pour a food over rice and serve in one dish.

กับข้าว have many variation of use and meaning

first like GarryP said , it's a way to serve rice seperate with food.

but that "food" is กับข้าว itself

กับข้าว mean something to eat with rice

กับ ข้าว

with rice (yeah , litterally)

any thing that's not rice and can get it to make a dish , it's กับข้าว

things that on the top of ราดข้าว ข้าวราดแกง is a กับข้าว (noun)

and way to serve it in seperate dish is กับข้าว also (verb)

if you going to some food shop

and make an order of same food but order it with กับข้าว and ราดข้าว

ราดข้าว for sure , you'll get a กับข้าว pour top of rice and serve in one dish , made enough for one person only

but if you order it as กับข้าว you are likely to get a seperate dish (sure)

and you'll notice that order as กับข้าว (verb - separate) are have more in quantity than order as ราดข้าว

because ,in Thai if you order ข้าวราด , that mean you are eating alone or don't want to have a big meal.

but as a กับข้าว mean you want to have a big meal (many person so you may want / worth to order many food to share and not to get bored with only one taste).

and price for order as กับข้าว will jump up a bit since they make it big for you

and I just wondering if farang go to food shop , and ask for special (พิเศษ) or order as สั่งพิเศษ

it's make every thing bigger , much more and maybe add some special ingredient .

cause I rarely see farang order พิเศษ

[meadish_sweetball]

Off topic: In my experience, most ร้านตามสั่ง just seem add more rice (often way too much) when I ask for พิเศษ - so to get more of something else, I have learned to specify what I want more of, which usually works:

พิเศษใบกะเพรา

พิเศษผัก

พิเศษไก่

and to be safe, I stick on a ข้าวไม่ต้องเพิ่มนะ at the end.

[farangnahrak]

Well, when I order it as ราดข้าว at this restaurant I go to often, I get a pile of rice on the plate, but the food is kept separate from the rice. Not once, for any dish I've ordered, did the food get put onto the rice. Sometimes when I order it as ราดข้าว the rice still comes on a separate dish.

When I order it as กับข้าว, sometimes I don't get any rice at all, sometimes I get it on a separate plate.

Perhaps they forget, or make a mistake, or perhaps I'm saying something wrong. The กับข้าว option is always 20 to 70 baht extra - and I'm not sure why its a different amount for different dishes. The menu has no พิเศษ option . . .

I guess I'll have to ask them whats up with that next time I go . . .

[uppalux]

if it's a restaurant not ร้านตามสั่ง (cheap).

they may refuse to serve as ราดข้าว as it might lower their look to the same level as ร้านตามสั่ง.

I experience that many (real) restuarant don't serve in form of ข้าวราด .

chef says "we are restaurant , not a low class food shop like ข้าวราดแกง"

พิเศษ may not written in a menu but you can still order it . assume to be "you know how that work"

and sorry , I can't understand this phrase (I don't know if I get it correct)

"and I'm not sure why its a different amount for different dishes"

can you explain for me?

thank you

[farangnahrak]

The restaurant is more pricey and higher quality food than a typical 3-walled restaurant. Not too special though, no air condition, but lots of fans . . .

(sorry, I always wanted to use that icon!)

and sorry , I can't understand this phrase (I don't know if I get it correct)

"and I'm not sure why its a different amount for different dishes"

can you explain for me?

For example: ราดข้าว กับข้าว

เปรี้ยวหวาน 80บ 150บ

กระเทียมพริกไท 50บ 70บ

ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 35บ 45บ

Especially the first example, paying 70 more baht for just rice? Doesn't make since. And you *must* choose either ราดข้าว or กับข้าว, there is no other price option. ง๊งงง

(I asked them for a copy of the menu, so these are real examples)

[uppalux]

..... I have one word .....

Weird ....

I think that's something wrong with this restaurant .

does the other place around there has a same problem?

for price . that is just too high.

30 ฿ a dish would make it in normal ตามสั่ง

and even a higher quality , still can't be that high.

เปรี้ยวหวาน 150!!

I will never set foot in that place (unless someone pay for me or it is heavenly good to be reasonable for that price)

[farangnahrak]

Well, the place is a 3 minute walk from my apartment door, and its very clean fresh good tasting food. A bit pricey, but soooo convenient . . .

I usually get two dishes, and spend 120 baht on average. I live in the middle of Bangkok, so by default stuff is pricier. They'll even deliver to my apartment for me.

The menu has like 50+ items, about a 10 minute wait for your order.

The เปรี้ยวหวาน has กุ้งแม่น้ำ, so thats probably why it costs more . . .

[Rikker]

The restaurant is more pricey and higher quality food than a typical 3-walled restaurant. Not too special though, no air condition, but lots of fans . . .

(sorry, I always wanted to use that icon!)

and sorry , I can't understand this phrase (I don't know if I get it correct)

"and I'm not sure why its a different amount for different dishes"

can you explain for me?

For example: ราดข้าว กับข้าว

เปรี้ยวหวาน 80บ 150บ

กระเทียมพริกไท 50บ 70บ

ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 35บ 45บ

Especially the first example, paying 70 more baht for just rice? Doesn't make since. And you *must* choose either ราดข้าว or กับข้าว, there is no other price option. ง๊งงง

(I asked them for a copy of the menu, so these are real examples)

Let me try to demystify this.

When you order กับข้าว, you are ordering just the food, without rice, to be taken away and eaten with your own rice at home. You pay more because you get more. A กับข้าว serving is basically a family size serving, put into a plastic baggie for family dinner.

Whereas if you order ราดข้าว, you're ordering a single serving. It literally means 'over rice', but depending on the restaurant it may not be their style to literally pour the food over the rice. You get less of the กับ (the part eaten with the rice) when you order it ราดข้าว.

Say you walk up and ask for กะเพราไก่. The seller might ask along the lines of ราดข้าวหรือเป็นกับ?, which means (idiomatically): "Do you want that served with rice or in a baggie?"

The verbal shortcut to getting it with rice is tacking the word ข้าว to the beginning of the food name. ข้าวกะเพราไก่ = basil chicken over rice (single serving). ข้าวกะเพราไก่ is the same thing as กะเพราไก่ราดข้าว.

ราดข้าว can be ordered both ใส่จาน or ใส่กล่อง, whereas when you order กับข้าว it is understood that you mean to take it away and eat it at home. You can also avoid making them ask whether you want eat-in or take-out by using the appropriate classifier 'box' or 'plate' when you place your order, thus implying your preference:

ข้าวกะเพราไก่สองจาน = 'two orders of basil chicken rice for here'

ข้าวกะเพราะไก่สองกล่อง = 'two orders of basil chicken to go'

That's the gist.

[rgs2001uk]

Well, the place is a 3 minute walk from my apartment door, and its very clean fresh good tasting food. A bit pricey, but soooo convenient . . .

I usually get two dishes, and spend 120 baht on average. I live in the middle of Bangkok, so by default stuff is pricier. They'll even deliver to my apartment for me.

The menu has like 50+ items, about a 10 minute wait for your order.

The เปรี้ยวหวาน has กุ้งแม่น้ำ, so thats probably why it costs more . . .

เปรี้ยวหวาน even with กุ้งแม่น้ำ, at 150 baht, it certainly isnt a ร้านตามสั่ง.

Depending on whereabouts in Bkk the restaurant is and the type of place it is thats about the normal price.

[yoot]

ราดข้าว can be ordered both ใส่จาน or ใส่กล่อง, whereas when you order กับข้าว it is understood that you mean to take it away and eat it at home.

When you order กับข้าว it doesn't need to be take it away or eat it at home. It means you want it as one dish without rice. You might order 3 kinds of กับข้าว to eat with rice which you order it separately.

For example;

ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวาน 1 ที่, ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 1 แล้วก็ต้มข่าไก่ให้ 1 ชาม ข้าวเปล่า 2 ที่

Or ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวานให้ที่ เอาเป็นกับข้าวนะ แล้วก็ข้าวเปล่า 1 จาน which you would get a 150 baht for กุ้งเปรี้ยวหวาน and 10 baht for rice.

Or ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวานราดข้าวให้ 1 ที่, that would be 80 baht for that meal.

[GarryP]

Off topic: In my experience, most ร้านตามสั่ง just seem add more rice (often way too much) when I ask for พิเศษ - so to get more of something else, I have learned to specify what I want more of, which usually works:

My experience too. When the topping has not increased in quantity but the amount of rice increased nearly twofold, that additional rice invariably gets thrown away. I am not one for eating rice on its own. So ordering a special at many of these food shops is pointless unless you qualify what part of the meal you want a special of, i.e. the topping.

[Groongthep]

ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวาน 1 ที่, ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 1 แล้วก็ต้มข่าไก่ให้ 1 ชาม ข้าวเปล่า 2 ที่

In the first part of this sentence, when ordering the sweet and sour prawns only the classifier 1 serving (1 ที่) was used as expected, but no classifier at all was used when adding the ไข่เจียวหมูสับ to the order, yet later when adding dtom khaa kai to the order the word ให้ was used before the classifier 1 bowl (ให้ 1 ชาม).

What purpose does adding the word ให้ serve? Does it impart the meaning "for me" as in ปิดประตูให้ผมหน่อย ? ให้ was also not used when asking for the 2 servings of rice.

Any explanation appreciated.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Groongthep

[farangnahrak]

Thanks Rikker! Its so unintuitive . . .

Groongthep, I only know a partial answer to your question . . . I've noticed Thais often leave out the classifier when ordering lots of stuff .

For example, at this ซาลาเปา restaurant I often go to, customers just say 'หมูแดง สอง หมูสับ สาม'. They leave out the word ลูก. Same for when ordering bags of sticky rice. I assume its just an accepted shortcut in the language.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^

farangnahrak,

I like you live in Bkk, so can only talk about central or Bkk Thai.

Many times I hear things being ordered with no classifier, sing song for example for two bottles of beer singha in a bar.

I have also found Thai to be an implied language, where the if classifier is obvious it will be omitted providing both parties understand.

The example you give of sticky rice is a prime example, I only see this sold in bags, so if I wanted sticky rice I would just say, ข้าวเหนียวสอง, for 2 bags of it.

Like you I just accept it as accepted every day speech patterns, but you wont be taught this in school.

[LuckyFive8888]

กับ ข้าว = with rice.

[Rikker]

When you order กับข้าว it doesn't need to be take it away or eat it at home. It means you want it as one dish without rice. You might order 3 kinds of กับข้าว to eat with rice which you order it separately.

Yes, you're right. Thanks for the correction. You could just as easily be eating their rice, but the basic distinction is the same: กับข้าว = standalone (usually multiple serving), ราดข้าว = over rice (single serving).

[Rikker]

กับ ข้าว = with rice.

I don't think กับ here really means 'with', since กับ by itself means 'food eaten with rice'. For example, you can say มีกับสามอย่าง 'there are three dishes (to be eaten with the rice)', meaning three distinct types of food. Cf. กับแกล้ม, snacks eaten with alcoholic drinks.

So when you ทำกับข้าว 'cook', you are literally 'making food (to be eaten with) rice', and not 'making with rice', which seems like an overly literal interpretation.

[dvc]

The restaurant is more pricey and higher quality food than a typical 3-walled restaurant. Not too special though, no air condition, but lots of fans . . .

(sorry, I always wanted to use that icon!)

and sorry , I can't understand this phrase (I don't know if I get it correct)

"and I'm not sure why its a different amount for different dishes"

can you explain for me?

For example: ราดข้าว กับข้าว

เปรี้ยวหวาน 80บ 150บ

กระเทียมพริกไท 50บ 70บ

ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 35บ 45บ

Especially the first example, paying 70 more baht for just rice? Doesn't make since. And you *must* choose either ราดข้าว or กับข้าว, there is no other price option. ง๊งงง

(I asked them for a copy of the menu, so these are real examples)

Let me try to demystify this.

When you order กับข้าว, you are ordering just the food, without rice, to be taken away and eaten with your own rice at home. You pay more because you get more. A กับข้าว serving is basically a family size serving, put into a plastic baggie for family dinner.

Whereas if you order ราดข้าว, you're ordering a single serving. It literally means 'over rice', but depending on the restaurant it may not be their style to literally pour the food over the rice. You get less of the กับ (the part eaten with the rice) when you order it ราดข้าว.

Say you walk up and ask for กะเพราไก่. The seller might ask along the lines of ราดข้าวหรือเป็นกับ?, which means (idiomatically): "Do you want that served with rice or in a baggie?"

The verbal shortcut to getting it with rice is tacking the word ข้าว to the beginning of the food name. ข้าวกะเพราไก่ = basil chicken over rice (single serving). ข้าวกะเพราไก่ is the same thing as กะเพราไก่ราดข้าว.

ราดข้าว can be ordered both ใส่จาน or ใส่กล่อง, whereas when you order กับข้าว it is understood that you mean to take it away and eat it at home. You can also avoid making them ask whether you want eat-in or take-out by using the appropriate classifier 'box' or 'plate' when you place your order, thus implying your preference:

ข้าวกะเพราไก่สองจาน = 'two orders of basil chicken rice for here'

ข้าวกะเพราะไก่สองกล่อง = 'two orders of basil chicken to go'

That's the gist.

Thanks so much for clarifying the issue. Another small point. I remember being instructed to use ใส่ถุง (to request placement in a plastic bag), rather than

ใส่กล่อง

Are the two phrases the same in meaning, or do they differ slightly? (and if so, how?)

[farangnahrak]

Thanks so much for clarifying the issue. Another small point. I remember being instructed to use ใส่ถุง (to request placement in a plastic bag), rather than

ใส่กล่อง

Are the two phrases the same in meaning, or do they differ slightly? (and if so, how?)

ใส่ถุง would be used for stuff like coke/pepsi and soups.

For more solid foods, some places like to use those foam containers, others use baggies.

[Groongthep]

Thanks Rikker! Its so unintuitive . . .

Groongthep, I only know a partial answer to your question . . . I've noticed Thais often leave out the classifier when ordering lots of stuff .

For example, at this ซาลาเปา restaurant I often go to, customers just say 'หมูแดง สอง หมูสับ สาม'. They leave out the word ลูก. Same for when ordering bags of sticky rice. I assume its just an accepted shortcut in the language.

Thanks for the kind response farangnahrak, but the question I had in post # 15 was more about the purpose of using the word ให้ in the phrase ให้ 1 ชาม than with the omission of the classifier in the other phrase.

I too have often heard classifiers omitted especially when ordering food.

By the way, thanks for informing me that the classifier (ลักษณะนาม) for ซาลาเปา is ลูก. I have been buying them by the ชิ้น and have never been corrected by the vendors.

[yoot]

What purpose does adding the word ให้ serve? Does it impart the meaning "for me" as in ปิดประตูให้ผมหน่อย ? ให้ was also not used when asking for the 2 servings of rice.

Any explanation appreciated.

Yes, it imparts the meaning 'for me' as you understand.

You can add ให้ in every sentence when asking for something, but using it too much would be redundant. So, just one for all of the things you want is enough.

From my example, you can change it to;

ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวานให้ 1 ที่, ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 1 ต้มข่าไก่ 1แล้วก็ข้าวเปล่า 2 ที่

ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวาน 1 ที่, ไข่เจียวหมูสับ 1 ต้มข่าไก่ 1 ชาม แล้วก็ข้าวเปล่าให้ 2 ที่

ขอกุ้งเปรี้ยวหวาน 1 ที่, ไข่เจียวหมูสับให้ 1 แล้วก็ต้มข่าไก่ 1 ชาม ข้าวเปล่า 2 ที่

Or whatever you want to say, there is no fix rules for it, including the classifiers. You can replace ที่ with จาน , ชาม with ถ้วย or หม้อ(in case you want it in hot pot), or omit all of them and let the waiter ask you if there is anything he doesn't understand.

[Rikker]

Thanks so much for clarifying the issue. Another small point. I remember being instructed to use ใส่ถุง (to request placement in a plastic bag), rather than

ใส่กล่อง

Are the two phrases the same in meaning, or do they differ slightly? (and if so, how?)

ใส่ถุง would be used for stuff like coke/pepsi and soups.

For more solid foods, some places like to use those foam containers, others use baggies.

Foam containers are usually used if rice is involved, or possibly wax paper (in which case it would be ใส่ห่อ). Baggies are only used when there's no rice (i.e. when you order it as กับ), in my experience. Or if it is a type of food not typically eaten with rice, like ยำวุ้นเส้น, in which case it pretty much always goes in a baggie if it's to go.

[Rikker]

Thinking about all of this there is just so much that is gleaned from context when you are ordering.

Is it an open-air stall or a three-wall restaurant where the kitchen is up front, or is it an indoor place?

Are there servers, or do you just order straight from the cook?

Is it the type of place where takeout is the norm or the exception?

Are you standing at the front of the restaurant when you place the order, or are you sitting down?

Are you alone or with a group?

All these things guide what you are likely to have to specify, and what the cook is likely to assume about how you want it.

[Groongthep]

Thanks Khun Yoot. I now know that in this case you used ให้ with the classifier to somewhat idiomatically mean "for me" with no fixed grammatical rule.

Similarly, as a native speaker, which would you normally use as the classifier for ซาลาเปา, ลูก or ชิ้น ? Is this another case of there being no exact correct answer as in your example where either ชาม or a ถ้วย could be used with a container of curry or soup like dtom kaa kai?

[Groongthep]

Thinking about all of this there is just so much that is gleaned from context when you are ordering.

Is it an open-air stall or a three-wall restaurant where the kitchen is up front, or is it an indoor place?

Are there servers, or do you just order straight from the cook?

Is it the type of place where takeout is the norm or the exception?

Are you standing at the front of the restaurant when you place the order, or are you sitting down?

Are you alone or with a group?

All these things guide what you are likely to have to specify, and what the cook is likely to assume about how you want it.

How are you finding the food in Kennewick? Used to being back yet?

[Rikker]

How are you finding the food in Kennewick? Used to being back yet?

I'm actually back in Bangkok now. And finding the food here as delightful as always. Though I do enjoy the odd jaunt home.

[Baa_Mango]

ราดข้าว normal order on rice.

กับข้าว is with outrice.. as in plate.. the thing that messed me up is i always thought the whole กับ part would mean with rice as well.. which is not the case.. so if you order กับข้าว you have to make sure to order rice also.. ie เอาข้าวเปล่าจานเดียว.. I often just order take back anyways and often eat rice.. i've never gotten rice if i have asked for เป็นกับ .. also the price diff.. maybe its the place your ordering from? Outside my apartment is a 3 or 4 lady super cook open air operation .. ie somtum 20 b and normal plate 25-30.. when its เป็นกับ the quantity is much larger and price is 40-50.