Bumrungrad Vs Samtivej Vs Siriraj

[Digitalbanana]

Hi all,

Will need to go under the knife shortly for a sports injury and flying in to choose between these hospitals expecting one or two days stay then a months rehab. My home is closest to Samitivej any opinions experiences welcomed? I'm a long term Samitivej member so tend to think they'd be best, but have no experience of the other two.

[ThaiPauly]

I have used both and have to say I prefer Bumrungrad, not much difference in price

[Mobi]

At this level of hospital, it is really down to the specialist who is going to do the operation.

I suggest you check out their experience and background and see which one suits your purpose the best.

You could also consult with the specialist in both hospitals and see which one you feel more comfortable with.

[bumrungrad]

At this level of hospital, it is really down to the specialist who is going to do the operation.

I suggest you check out their experience and background and see which one suits your purpose the best.

You could also consult with the specialist in both hospitals and see which one you feel more comfortable with.

Hello Digitalbanana,

Depending on the time you have available, this is good advice.

You can see the doctors and their training/certifications at:

http://www.bumrungrad.com/overseas-medical...r-a-doctor.aspx

For instance, if you are coming from the US you may feel more comfortable looking for a US trained doctor (if there is one in the specialty you require).

If you would like a recommendation, please PM me with the procedure you would like to have done, and I can see who we have that is more well known with our international patients.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[Sheryl]

Mobi is correct...it is the surgeon that you should choose.

There have been many recommendations on this forum for specific orthopedic surgeons for various problems. Not knowing what yours is, I can't advise but if you do a search on this forum you'll find first hand recs for specialists in knee, shoulder etc.

And as Scott mentioned, you can review doctor qualifications on the websites of the various hospitals. Link for Bumrungrad is in his post. AFAIK there is only one specialist in sports medicine/ortho at Samitivej (http://www.samitivejhospitals.com/Doctor/DoctorProfile.aspx?DoctorId=11950461) but several at Bumrungrad. Also some at Bangkok Hospital; http://www.bangkokhospital.com/index.php?p=search_doctor

Siriraj is a government hospital and while the quality of care is good, (1) lots of bureaucratic red tape -- all of it in Thai -- to get seen much less admitted; (2) you usually can't choose your doctor; most often the surgery will be done by a resident in training under supervision of a senior doctor; and (3) minimal English speaking except by the more senior doctors.

[Digitalbanana]

Truly appreciate all the helpful advise from each one of you. This will be my first surgery for shoulder rotator cuff tear. The Bumrungrad has been most easy to communicate with from a distance (I am currently working outside Thailand where my home is). I will follow your advice and speak directly at each before choosing. The closest hospital will have an advantage with the follow up therapy work I guess. Sririrath was an idea since I was hearing could be cheaper, as this will be my own expense.

[Jdietz]

If cost is a concern definitely go with a Government hospital, it may make a difference in price to the order or a factor 10 or more.

Service is as good as anywhere, accommodation is basic but serviceable, if it's only for a day or two no need for first class rooms with a view.

[Sheryl]

See this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Shoulder-Sur...hl=rotator+cuff

And you might also want to PM some of the TV members who posted in them re their experience and recommendations

Surgery at Bumrungrad is going to cost you considerably. But this type of repair is so specuialized and complex that, if you proceed with it, I do nto recommend doing so except with a very experienced and highly qualified surgeon who specifically specializes in it.

Note I say “if”. The success rate for repair of torn rotator cuff is not very high and there is often an argument to be made for not having surgery but rather just extensive and long-term physical therapy (which, unlike surgery, will not cost you that much although you’ll need to be living near the hospital).

For sure need to discuss clearly with the surgeon what the likely function would be post-surgery and get more than one opinion on the odds of regaining what degree of function with different therapeutic approaches

[harveyBKK]

Having had an ACL replacement and bum rotator cuff myself, I have to agree with Sheryl. The surgery is a bad option, and you're far better off putting the money toward good rehab. It may not be the answer that you want to hear, that in 2010 we still don't have a very good way of repairing rotator cuff injuries, but it's true. The surgery is a psychological band-aid more than anything.

Now, maybe there are a handful of surgeons in the world who can do this in a way where it might actually work. A lot of it comes down to you as well, in terms of whether or not your body takes to the surgery, and heals correctly. But honestly, it's probably not worth it.

At least, give it a years worth of good PT if you haven't already, and see what happens. You can always get the surgery next year. And hey, maybe by then it might actually have some benefit.

*not a Dr*

See this thread

And you might also want to PM some of the TV members who posted in them re their experience and recommendations

Surgery at Bumrungrad is going to cost you considerably. But this type of repair is so specuialized and complex that, if you proceed with it, I do nto recommend doing so except with a very experienced and highly qualified surgeon who specifically specializes in it.

Note I say "if". The success rate for repair of torn rotator cuff is not very high and there is often an argument to be made for not having surgery but rather just extensive and long-term physical therapy (which, unlike surgery, will not cost you that much although you'll need to be living near the hospital).

For sure need to discuss clearly with the surgeon what the likely function would be post-surgery and get more than one opinion on the odds of regaining what degree of function with different therapeutic approaches

[jackoneilone]

The surgeon is what matters the most and not so much the hospital! Youd want the best surgeon to operate on you wouldnt you? So why should the hospital matter? especially since all 3 of those are top end ones?

Its very irresponsible and silly to simply choose a hospital because of its size, comfort, and more likely marketing rather than finding the best doctor for the condition.

[Digitalbanana]

Thanks to you each again, good advise, it looks like I will be taking some long talks with each hospital raising points that you have kindly experienced and shared to make my own unskilled judgments on them. Until now I have only discussed it once with an orthopedics doctor at Samitevej (Dr Wichian). I wouldn't know one good surgeon from another as it's not my field of work and I hadn't really thought about the seriousness of choosing a surgeon correctly. The doctors can't really tell me this?!

It will be for my cost, but I am ready to pay for the best outcome and best surgeon. Judging by a few posts on the useful link sent by Sheryl (thanks!) a few peoples opinion suggest the surgery won't be worth it? I will have to question the doctors views on that when I see them as I was lead to believe the success rates were higher percentages.

I am currently located away from good hospital resources due to work, so scouting the internet for ideas so far.

[jackoneilone]

Thanks to you each again, good advise, it looks like I will be taking some long talks with each hospital raising points that you have kindly experienced and shared to make my own unskilled judgments on them. Until now I have only discussed it once with an orthopedics doctor at Samitevej (Dr Wichian). I wouldn't know one good surgeon from another as it's not my field of work and I hadn't really thought about the seriousness of choosing a surgeon correctly. The doctors can't really tell me this?!

It will be for my cost, but I am ready to pay for the best outcome and best surgeon. Judging by a few posts on the useful link sent by Sheryl (thanks!) a few peoples opinion suggest the surgery won't be worth it? I will have to question the doctors views on that when I see them as I was lead to believe the success rates were higher percentages.

I am currently located away from good hospital resources due to work, so scouting the internet for ideas so far.

well a good place to start is look at the hospital's websites and check each doctors profile, training and speciality. Also you could ask each hospital (if its not published on their website) who the head surgeon for that department is eg many orthopaedic surgeons but only 1 head surgeon would be there for that field.

[Sheryl]

Go to the hospitals' website find-a-doctor functions

Put in orthopedics as specialty, sports medicine as sub-specialty if the menu offers that.

Go through the doctors' qualifications looking specifically for:

- special interest in shoulder injuries/sports injuries

- training (fellowship etc) in a western country

-board certification in a western country in orthopedic surgery

- additional trai8ning/certification in sports medicine also a plus

- faculty appointment also a plus, will usually have "Prof" or "Assoc Prof" before title

The above measures will identify the top docs for you.

Then you need to have some very pointed discussions with them

Bear in mind that orthopedic surgeons, being surgeons, have a natural proclivity towards surgical intervention. Akl specifically about success rates in percentgae terms and what that means with regards to function; how it compares to outcomes without surgery

I am not one of these people who views surgery as a last resort...on the contrary, I consider it good fortune if a problem is one amenable to surgical cure. But your particular problem is one where the success rate with surgery is low. So think twice and do your homework.

[Digitalbanana]

Thanks guys, I've got some homework to do it seems. Will definitely think about this upfront and print out these forum threads as reference to ask the hard questions. First stop looks like Bumrungrad as their web site offers most doctors with CV's.

I post my experiences on this thread in a few weeks.

[pepi2005]

Bumrungrad has become really expensive compared with a few years ago, prices are often not much different from Western ones anymore.

Additionally, they turned to be quite 'pushy' for additional packages, examinations or other 'extras', as a friend recently told me.

Unfortunately, very few of us - especially when they are in pain or angst - can differentiate between what's medically justified/required or just 'feel good' procedures.

My own experience with market saturation is that usually, prices go up first, then quality down.

If the same should happen with Bumrungrad right now, it seems to be the perfect time to give other hospitals a chance as well. Luckily, there are enough alternatives with the same or almost the same standards available in Bangkok, so at least get some alternative opinions and prices from the other clinics you mentioned, too.

Good luck!

[LovelyThai]

I agree with the advice of surgeon over hospital. As a layperson, though, who am I to "check" a doctor's qualifications?! And just because some doctor graduated from some great university does not mean s/he is the best, right?!

I want to do a blepharoplasty (sp?) [upper and lower eyelids], and I have no idea what doctor to go with. I consulted with one at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital --- just did not feel comfortable with him. How the heck can I choose a topnotch surgeon for such a procedure?! I'd really appreciate the input of anyone in the know! Thanks in advance!

[Artabus]

Thanks guys, I've got some homework to do it seems. Will definitely think about this upfront and print out these forum threads as reference to ask the hard questions. First stop looks like Bumrungrad as their web site offers most doctors with CV's.

I post my experiences on this thread in a few weeks.

I had a LOT of experience of Bumrungrad, many months worth and many millions of Baht in expense. And before anyone asks, it was my father's medical condition, not mine.

Do not use them. It's that simple. Please feel free to PM me if you would like more info.

I cannot comment on the other two hospitals, as I have no experience of them.

[bumrungrad]

Thanks guys, I've got some homework to do it seems. Will definitely think about this upfront and print out these forum threads as reference to ask the hard questions. First stop looks like Bumrungrad as their web site offers most doctors with CV's.

I post my experiences on this thread in a few weeks.

I had a LOT of experience of Bumrungrad, many months worth and many millions of Baht in expense. And before anyone asks, it was my father's medical condition, not mine.

Do not use them. It's that simple. Please feel free to PM me if you would like more info.

I cannot comment on the other two hospitals, as I have no experience of them.

Hello Artabus,

Actually, I am quite interested to understand what the issues are. I will send you a PM requesting additional information.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[ericg1953]

Name: Dr. Mason Porramatikul

Specialty: Orthopaedics (Bone) - Arthroscopic Surgery, Orthopaedic Surgery

Language: Spoken: English,Thai

Qualifications: Medical School:

- M.D., Faculty of Medicine, Siriraj Hospital, Mahidol University, Thailand, 1994

Board Certifications:

- Diploma of The Thai Board of Orthopaedic Surgery, 1999

Fellowships:

- Sports Medicine, Shoulder Surgery, Harvard Shoulder Service, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard University, USA, 2004

Special Clinical Interests:

- Arthroscopic Surgery

- Shoulder Pain, Shoulder Instability, Shoulder Stiffness

- Sport Injuries (Ligament, Cartilage, Meniscus Injuries)

Special Clinical Trainings:

- AO/ASIF fellowship (Fracture Treatment), BG Trauma Hospital, Tuebingen, Germany, 2002

- Sports Medicine, Knee and Shoulder Surgery, Techniche Universtat of Munchen, Germany, 2002

- Sports Medicine and Shoulder Surgery, Harvard Shoulder Service, Harvard University, USA, 2003-2004

Day Time Location

Tue 17:00 - 20:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Thu 17:00 - 20:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Sat 13:00 - 16:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Sun 13:00 - 17:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

[thaipod]

I myself would search for the best surgeon then choose the hospital there are a abundance of hospitals that these good specialists work out of .

There are your top of the range hospitals like Bumrungrad but you will have to pay very high prices through over servicing, I understand where Artabus is coming from I've been there done that also .

[Digitalbanana]

Day Time Location

Tue 17:00 - 20:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Thu 17:00 - 20:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Sat 13:00 - 16:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Sun 13:00 - 17:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

This guys credentials look impressive, he must be working at a cheaper hospital during normal hours I wonder? Besides the Bumrungrad hospital it's not so easy to get the info from other web sites, so looks like I'll be doing some footwork with my Thai wife to make sure we get value and quality.

For the record I have been less than impressed with Samitivej responses by email (like there have been no responses even though I'm a member) so I may choose them last.

[quadricorrelator]

Name: Dr. Mason Porramatikul

Specialty: Orthopaedics (Bone) - Arthroscopic Surgery, Orthopaedic Surgery

Language: Spoken: English,Thai

Qualifications: Medical School:

- M.D., Faculty of Medicine, Siriraj Hospital, Mahidol University, Thailand, 1994

Board Certifications:

- Diploma of The Thai Board of Orthopaedic Surgery, 1999

Fellowships:

- Sports Medicine, Shoulder Surgery, Harvard Shoulder Service, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard University, USA, 2004

Special Clinical Interests:

- Arthroscopic Surgery

- Shoulder Pain, Shoulder Instability, Shoulder Stiffness

- Sport Injuries (Ligament, Cartilage, Meniscus Injuries)

Special Clinical Trainings:

- AO/ASIF fellowship (Fracture Treatment), BG Trauma Hospital, Tuebingen, Germany, 2002

- Sports Medicine, Knee and Shoulder Surgery, Techniche Universtat of Munchen, Germany, 2002

- Sports Medicine and Shoulder Surgery, Harvard Shoulder Service, Harvard University, USA, 2003-2004

Day Time Location

Tue 17:00 - 20:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Thu 17:00 - 20:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Sat 13:00 - 16:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

Sun 13:00 - 17:00 NS 12A (Orthop/Physical Med)

I believe Dr. Mason has a high level of integrity. I visited eight different orthopedic surgeons in regards to a knee problem. All of them recommended surgery. Dr. Mason refused to operate until he saw what kind of results I could get from strengthening my atrophied leg muscles. He felt that the condition was mostly caused by muscle weakness.

Although Dr Mason did not initially mention that my problem could be tendonitis, he agreed this could be part of the problem after it was diagnosed by the physical therapist.

(In the end, I waited to see two world famous specialists in the US before making the surgery decision. Both of them gave me a 90% chance of recovery with physical therapy for strengthening my leg muscles as Dr. Mason insisted. They also refused to operate until I strengthened my leg muscles.)

It was very difficult for me to figure out how to strengthen my leg muscles without inflaming the tendon and Dr. Mason did not address this (this could have been a communication issue). In the end, I went for physical therapy in the US. It seems to have helped, but it is too early to know if this is going to work.

I will definitely use Dr. Mason again in case of any future orthopedic problems.

[ericg1953]

My experience with Dr. Mason was the same. He took a very conservative approach at first with meds and excersize and then scheduled me for a follow up if the symptoms persisted. I like his bedside manor and his skill set is very good as well.

Edited June 8, 2010 by ericg1953

[Digitalbanana]

My experiences so far:

Samitivej - I never returned here to follow up the MRI scan they did or the doctors advise which was for immediate operative surgery at 10,000USD. I will never use this hospital again despite membership there for past few years. YMMV.

Sririraj - doctor gave good advice, conflicted with Samitivej's by considerable amount, recommendations seemed agreeable but I was unable to follow up here as the service is very definitely government standard from what I saw. Waiting in a queue for 3 hours, meeting a doctor in a public room full or other patients, thanks but no thanks. Nice doctor tho!

Bumrungrad - the doctors here gave same advise as Sririraj, service is top notch and I don't mind paying for it. I will likely never need operative surgery as I was told by Samitivej. Physiotherapy is doing wonders now. I almost feel I have full function of my shoulder back within two weeks of physio. The bill of rights for patients as one checks in is very reassuring. I will certainly bear it in mind each time I remember not to return to Samitivej.

[Sheryl]

Congratulations on your progress and on being smart enough to get a few opinions and do your homework!

I would like to point out, though, that you were not told to have surgery "by Samitivej" and to have PT " by Bumrungrad", you were given that advice by specific individual doctors at those facilities. There's a huge difference.

I have had, and I have seen on this board, both positive and negative experienced at all the hospitals you went to. It is the choice of doctor that makes the difference, not the building he or she works in.

That said, Bumrungrad does seem to have the best selection of docs when it comes to sports medicine. Likewise, for rheumatology. But Samitivej IMO is tops for health screening (check ups), and I have tried just about everywhere.

[Digitalbanana]

Yes, you are correct. My YMMV remark was a subtle suggestion to that effect that doctors are ultimately your choice. I thank all on this forum for alerting me to the fact to shop around in Bangkok for such, whereas I had become somewhat set in my ways previously.

I am interested in your response on health screening at Samitevej. I have used them before, and will sign up for Bumrungrads next as part of their health membership plan. I'll make my judgments on that later. It's always nice to have a choice. I still have some work left on my shoulder before that though.

[bkkjam]

I know this is an old thread.

My family and I use Samitevej quite a lot. I'm not farang. I saw Dr. Wichian recently who prescribed Zyloric to reduce my uric acid levels (which he said was 99% safe) after 1 month of 'no eating chicken' diet did not work. Zyloric caused gastrics problem which the Dr. Wichian did not warn me. I should have 'googled' it instead of trusting him. I then visited Dr. Prasert who in my opinion has poor patient communication skills. He scared me saying I may have liver damage as my liver enzymes were elevated. He could not explain to me clearly in English and left me really worried after seeing him.

I changed doctors the next day.

Samitevej Sukhumvit has dual pricing policy for foreigners and Thais. MY GP in Samitevej charges THB 800 while my wife is charged THB 600 for consultations.

Generally, I find doctors in Bumrungrad better than Samitevej. I will also research my doctors qualifications in the future.

[Sheryl]

You will not find uniformity based on the hospital.It all boils down to the doctor. Please understand that these doctors are autonomous private practitioners making use of the hospital's physical infrastructure to conduct their private practice in. They are not employees of the hospital and you are not receiving care form a hospital, you are receiving it from a private doctor whose offices happen to be located in one.

(referring of course to outpatient services).

[diabeticsurvivor]

If costs isn't an issue, I'd go for Bumrungrad and look for doctors who work full-time at Chula hospital (with trusted academic titles), those who station there after 4.30pm weekdays or on weekends. Samitivej is out of the picture in my opinion, they have only fews good doctors.

For public hospital, I choose Chula over Siriraj. My dad went to the fancy off-hours clinic at Siriraj - the Heart (http://www.theheartbysiriraj.com/). He almost died due to allergic reaction to med prescribed by the high profile asso professor at the Heart. It took more than a dozen of Chula's high profile professors to save him. It was that bad.

[Suiken]

question: so compared to other average to decent hospitals in Bangkok and Thailand, how much more expensive is Bumrungrad ?

What if the surgery or recovery process needs to be more than 1 month, which is longer than the visa....is there a special visa the hospital can get you or soemthing?